Josh Allen mechanics are very good.
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Kessler's completion percentage was 67%. It's a team game. If Elway himself went to Wyoming, do you
really think his percentage would have been any different? It's a TEAM game. A lot of eval of qb's, imho, has to do with
the competition they play vs the quality of starters they play with. In 2015, his completion percentage was 66.7
That is from this link:
http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
so, his first year, his completion percentage was a good bit better than any year Rosen has played at UCLA.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-rosen-1.html
60.0
59.3
(2017) 62.5 SO, Josh Allen had a higher completion percentage in his first year, than Rosen ever did in college.
SO, what does that mean, eh? LOL. He completed 4 of 6 passes, that's all. But seriously, completion percentage is just a smaller indicator - you have to take in consideration of what players he has on offense, what system, competition,... it is just a number.
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Dude, we get it. This isn't the political forum where you have to make a new thread to blow your load every day to prove your point. We know.
Ha, I'll just (maybe) rename this the "official Josh Allen Love Fest Thread. "
I knew Cal would get all warm and fuzzy after I posted that YouTube in another thread. I demand credit for seeing it first.
That said, perfect mechanics don't necessarily translate to perfect accuracy. Kosar's mechanics were a mess, but he was able to throw one of the best deep balls in the NFL.
Ha, I'll just (maybe) rename this the "official Josh Allen Love Fest Thread. "
I knew Cal would get all warm and fuzzy after I posted that YouTube in another thread. I demand credit for seeing it first.
That said, perfect mechanics don't necessarily translate to perfect accuracy. Kosar's mechanics were a mess, but he was able to throw one of the best deep balls in the NFL.
well, since you got all whiney redass, I did respond knee jerkly a bit, but I don't get the reasoning. Look above:
Josh Allen, his first year starting, had a higher completion percentage than Rosen ever has in college (see above LOL)
. I just decided to say whatever else there IS to say, ONLY in this one thread. And yes, I have seen that video before, but decided to post it with my responses since you brought it up.
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Dude, we get it. This isn't the political forum where you have to make a new thread to blow your load every day to prove your point. We know.
Ha, I'll just (maybe) rename this the "official Josh Allen Love Fest Thread. "
I knew Cal would get all warm and fuzzy after I posted that YouTube in another thread. I demand credit for seeing it first.
That said, perfect mechanics don't necessarily translate to perfect accuracy. Kosar's mechanics were a mess, but he was able to throw one of the best deep balls in the NFL.
Ha, I'll just (maybe) rename this the "official Josh Allen Love Fest Thread. "
I knew Cal would get all warm and fuzzy after I posted that YouTube in another thread. I demand credit for seeing it first.
That said, perfect mechanics don't necessarily translate to perfect accuracy. Kosar's mechanics were a mess, but he was able to throw one of the best deep balls in the NFL.
And, as I remember, you were a big Couch pumper prior to the Browns' return in 1999. There are many more key variables than mechanics, completion %, etc.
It is hard to measure heart and dedication as a NFL pro.
History shows many hits in unexpected places and - just possibly - more misses in unexpected places.
Dorsey's #1, #2,#3, jobs are to find a Franchise QB in this draft - assuming there is one.
His #4 job will be to truly evaluate the HC position.
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Todd McShay said on a radio interview that teams like Wyoming don't reload as well as the OSUs, Alabamas, FSUs, etc., so that may be a reason his stats went down.
Could be an excuse, could be full of bull. All I know is I see an AFC North QB at Wyoming.
Karlis Missed -
Kessler's completion percentage was 67%. It's a team game. If Elway himself went to Wyoming, do you
really think his percentage would have been any different? It's a TEAM game. A lot of eval of qb's, imho, has to do with
the competition they play vs the quality of starters they play with. In 2015, his completion percentage was 66.7
That is from this link:
http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
so, his first year, his completion percentage was a good bit better than any year Rosen has played at UCLA.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-rosen-1.html
60.0
59.3
(2017) 62.5 SO, Josh Allen had a higher completion percentage in his first year, than Rosen ever did in college.
SO, what does that mean, eh? LOL. He completed 4 of 6 passes, that's all. But seriously, completion percentage is just a smaller indicator - you have to take in consideration of what players he has on offense, what system, competition,... it is just a number.
Kessler's completion percentage was 67%. It's a team game. If Elway himself went to Wyoming, do you
really think his percentage would have been any different? It's a TEAM game. A lot of eval of qb's, imho, has to do with
the competition they play vs the quality of starters they play with. In 2015, his completion percentage was 66.7
That is from this link:
http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
so, his first year, his completion percentage was a good bit better than any year Rosen has played at UCLA.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-rosen-1.html
60.0
59.3
(2017) 62.5 SO, Josh Allen had a higher completion percentage in his first year, than Rosen ever did in college.
SO, what does that mean, eh?
Sorry Cal... You misread the stats.
Allen completion percentage 2016 56.0% 2017 56.3%
Rosen completion percentage 2015 60% 2016 59.3% 2017 62.5%
Those are from your own links. I really hope you aren't counting Allen's first year as the year he completed 4 out of 6 passes as being the time he had a percentage higher than any time Rosen did in college. The years that they both actually played a significant number of games, Rosen's is higher each year, plus Rosen has an extra year experience as a starter. Also, did it against much, much, much, much better competition. The Mountain West is nothing compared to the Pac 12.
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Dude, we get it. This isn't the political forum where you have to make a new thread to blow your load every day to prove your point. We know.
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Those are from your own links. I really hope you aren't counting Allen's first year as the year he completed 4 out of 6 passes as being the time he had a percentage higher than any time Rosen did in college. The years that they both actually played a significant number of games, Rosen's is higher each year, plus Rosen has an extra year experience as a starter. Also, did it against much, much, much, much better competition. The Mountain West is nothing compared to the Pac 12. Mark
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Sorry, but I was being facetious - I read them just fine, I used his first year completion percentage to mock the undue emphasis on the only stat - completion percentage. Rosen only played in six games in 2016. That is what I'm saying - what other factors play into how completion percentages figure? Suppose rosen played for Wyoming the last few years. Do you think he'd be famous? Do you think he would have fared better than Allen? Hardly. They couldn't run a prostyle offense at UCLA. They said they didn't have the players.
Well, they DID at Wyoming, but a pro style offense doesn't lend itself to the gawdy numbers that so many qb's get in playinga spread offense. Like Kessler - spread offense - he completed 66.7 percent of his passes. How did that translate into the NFL ?
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Great...his mechanics are good. Big deal. He completes only 56% of his passes in a very weak Mountain West conference. Trust me, I know how weak it is...I watch it every single week, probably saw more games in the MW than any other conference.
56% in college is going to translate to even less in the NFL when the speed of the game and the speed of the defenses is exponentially higher. Just look at Kizer...he was inaccurate at Notre Dame and guess what....he was inaccurate in the NFL.
Allen is a project...nothing more.
Great...his mechanics are good. Big deal. He completes only 56% of his passes in a very weak Mountain West conference. Trust me, I know how weak it is...I watch it every single week, probably saw more games in the MW than any other conference.
56% in college is going to translate to even less in the NFL when the speed of the game and the speed of the defenses is exponentially higher. Just look at Kizer...he was inaccurate at Notre Dame and guess what....he was inaccurate in the NFL.
Allen is a project...nothing more.
Yeah, some are seeing Roethlisber\Elway with that arm capable of tossing the rock 80 yards in the air. I'm not willing to bet the #1 overall he can improve on 56% completion percentage.
Did a little research on college stats completion %.
Elway: fr 52, then 65, 58.5, 65
Roethlisberger: 63, 63, 69.
And for kicks and giggles:
Wentz: (to be fair) 74% on 46 attempts fr & soph years, then 64, 63.
Seeing a trend here- if you want a cannon arm, he better be 60%+ completions in college. So yeah Cal go dig up all the HOF qbs that didn't meet that bar. FWIW, Kizer was exactly @ 60% at ND.
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Those are from your own links. I really hope you aren't counting Allen's first year as the year he completed 4 out of 6 passes as being the time he had a percentage higher than any time Rosen did in college. The years that they both actually played a significant number of games, Rosen's is higher each year, plus Rosen has an extra year experience as a starter. Also, did it against much, much, much, much better competition. The Mountain West is nothing compared to the Pac 12. Mark
*****************************************************
Sorry, but I was being facetious - I read them just fine, I used his first year completion percentage to mock the undue emphasis on the only stat - completion percentage. Rosen only played in six games in 2016. That is what I'm saying - what other factors play into how completion percentages figure? Suppose rosen played for Wyoming the last few years. Do you think he'd be famous? Do you think he would have fared better than Allen? Hardly. They couldn't run a prostyle offense at UCLA. They said they didn't have the players.
Well, they DID at Wyoming, but a pro style offense doesn't lend itself to the gawdy numbers that so many qb's get in playinga spread offense. Like Kessler - spread offense - he completed 66.7 percent of his passes. How did that translate into the NFL ?
Well, they DID at Wyoming, but a pro style offense doesn't lend itself to the gawdy numbers that so many qb's get in playinga spread offense. Like Kessler - spread offense - he completed 66.7 percent of his passes. How did that translate into the NFL ?
Kessler stinks and is too small and has a noodle arm and was never going to translate to the NFL. Allen is basically a white Kizer. Big arm but doesn't know where it's going most of the time. 56% is 56% you can't spin that any other way. Its not going to get better at the next level when he's not playing against the creampuffs in the Mountain West.
He's just not accurate enough, maybe someday he will be but I would bet against it.
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Those are from your own links. I really hope you aren't counting Allen's first year as the year he completed 4 out of 6 passes as being the time he had a percentage higher than any time Rosen did in college. The years that they both actually played a significant number of games, Rosen's is higher each year, plus Rosen has an extra year experience as a starter. Also, did it against much, much, much, much better competition. The Mountain West is nothing compared to the Pac 12. Mark
*****************************************************
Sorry, but I was being facetious - I read them just fine, I used his first year completion percentage to mock the undue emphasis on the only stat - completion percentage. Rosen only played in six games in 2016. That is what I'm saying - what other factors play into how completion percentages figure? Suppose rosen played for Wyoming the last few years. Do you think he'd be famous? Do you think he would have fared better than Allen? Hardly. They couldn't run a prostyle offense at UCLA. They said they didn't have the players.
Well, they DID at Wyoming, but a pro style offense doesn't lend itself to the gawdy numbers that so many qb's get in playinga spread offense. Like Kessler - spread offense - he completed 66.7 percent of his passes. How did that translate into the NFL ?
Those are from your own links. I really hope you aren't counting Allen's first year as the year he completed 4 out of 6 passes as being the time he had a percentage higher than any time Rosen did in college. The years that they both actually played a significant number of games, Rosen's is higher each year, plus Rosen has an extra year experience as a starter. Also, did it against much, much, much, much better competition. The Mountain West is nothing compared to the Pac 12. Mark
*****************************************************
Sorry, but I was being facetious - I read them just fine, I used his first year completion percentage to mock the undue emphasis on the only stat - completion percentage. Rosen only played in six games in 2016. That is what I'm saying - what other factors play into how completion percentages figure? Suppose rosen played for Wyoming the last few years. Do you think he'd be famous? Do you think he would have fared better than Allen? Hardly. They couldn't run a prostyle offense at UCLA. They said they didn't have the players.
Well, they DID at Wyoming, but a pro style offense doesn't lend itself to the gawdy numbers that so many qb's get in playinga spread offense. Like Kessler - spread offense - he completed 66.7 percent of his passes. How did that translate into the NFL ?
Well Cal, I'll grant you Wyoming lost some players 2017. What I saw was shades of Deshone Kizer, Allen would follow up a highlight reel throw with a toss that wasn't in the same area code as a wide open receiver. Consistently is not his selling point.
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Moving from one inaccurate QB who "We Promise" will fix that issue in the pros..... to another inaccurate QB who promises to fix that one issue.
Only in Cleveland..
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Hoorta, you are missing the point. Do you think if Allen plays for the steelers, that he'd have a problem throwing a intermediate pass to a wide open bryant? If he plays for the patriots, that he'd have trouble throwing an intermediate pass to a wide open gronk?
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol
Offense Adj. LY Rk Std. Downs Line Yards Rk Pass. Downs Line Yards Rk Opp. Rate Rk Power Success Rate Rk Stuff Rate Rk Adj Sack Rate Rk Std. Downs Sack Rate Rk Pass. Downs Sack Rate Rk UCLA 93.5 105 2.70 98 2.87 103 36.3% 94 79.2% 9 21.5% 98 149.5 20 3.9 40 5.4 33 Wyoming 84.8 125 2.62 107 2.88 102 32.9% 119 54.5% 126 22.7% 116 78.6 99 6.8 96 8.2 76 -
Todd McShay said on a radio interview that teams like Wyoming don't reload as well as the OSUs, Alabamas, FSUs, etc., so that may be a reason his stats went down.
Could be an excuse, could be full of bull. All I know is I see an AFC North QB at Wyoming.
Todd McShay said on a radio interview that teams like Wyoming don't reload as well as the OSUs, Alabamas, FSUs, etc., so that may be a reason his stats went down.
Could be an excuse, could be full of bull. All I know is I see an AFC North QB at Wyoming.
He had no change whatsoever in his completion percentage between last year and this year. Allen's conference didn't change. Mountain West isn't teeming with talent. The windows Allen threw into will only get smaller in the pros. What leads anyone to believe that Allen would get more accurate in the pros?
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Todd McShay said on a radio interview that teams like Wyoming don't reload as well as the OSUs, Alabamas, FSUs, etc., so that may be a reason his stats went down.
Could be an excuse, could be full of bull. All I know is I see an AFC North QB at Wyoming.
He had no change whatsoever in his completion percentage between last year and this year. Allen's conference didn't change. Mountain West isn't teeming with talent. The windows Allen threw into will only get smaller in the pros. What leads anyone to believe that Allen would get more accurate in the pros?
He had no change whatsoever in his completion percentage between last year and this year. Allen's conference didn't change. Mountain West isn't teeming with talent. The windows Allen threw into will only get smaller in the pros. What leads anyone to believe that Allen would get more accurate in the pros?
Only Cal believes that. He's going to get better playing in the NFL than he did playing against the creampuffs in the Mountain West.
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Looking above, where the offensive lines rank, UCLA vs WYOMING..... in most categories, UCLA had a far
better offensive line. Meaning, more competitive in their conference, than Wyoming's was in theirs.
Only one category was nearly the same - passing downs lines yards. Which, doesn't tell me what the heck that is... LOL
but many things have to be taken into consideration. Completion percentage is just a number, not a complete eval all by itself.
Better oline, better wr's, better te, better rb, better college offense type, better coach, better playcalling... surely gives a qb an advantage in completion percentage. I just find fault with using just the number, and saying that that makes or breaks a qb pick for the pros.
Just not seein it.
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Todd McShay said on a radio interview that teams like Wyoming don't reload as well as the OSUs, Alabamas, FSUs, etc., so that may be a reason his stats went down.
Could be an excuse, could be full of bull. All I know is I see an AFC North QB at Wyoming.
He had no change whatsoever in his completion percentage between last year and this year. Allen's conference didn't change. Mountain West isn't teeming with talent. The windows Allen threw into will only get smaller in the pros. What leads anyone to believe that Allen would get more accurate in the pros?
He had no change whatsoever in his completion percentage between last year and this year. Allen's conference didn't change. Mountain West isn't teeming with talent. The windows Allen threw into will only get smaller in the pros. What leads anyone to believe that Allen would get more accurate in the pros?
which means... he still took them to a bowl game, when he didn't have anywhere near as good as them offensive line? etc?
I wonder how many of the teams Wyoming played had a pro style offense..... good question.
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He had no change whatsoever in his completion percentage between last year and this year. Allen's conference didn't change. Mountain West isn't teeming with talent. The windows Allen threw into will only get smaller in the pros. What leads anyone to believe that Allen would get more accurate in the pros?
which means... he still took them to a bowl game, when he didn't have anywhere near as good as them offensive line? etc?
I wonder how many of the teams Wyoming played had a pro style offense..... good question.
which means... he still took them to a bowl game, when he didn't have anywhere near as good as them offensive line? etc?
I think this is more of an indictment of the opposing competition than it does promote Wyoming. A QB with a 56% accuracy managed to win enough games in the Mountain West to make a bowl game.
Completion percentage is one of those things where having a good one does not automatically make a QB good or even average. But a bad one is a clear indicator of a college QB that will not work out in the pros.
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not when you play in a pro style offense, which UCLA couldn't make work. The spread offenses are noted to
gawdy stats. Even for qb's that don't have the physical skills for the NFL, like I have mentioned before - Kessler had 66.7 % completion percentage. It was not in a pro style offense.
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which means... he still took them to a bowl game, when he didn't have anywhere near as good as them offensive line? etc?
I think this is more of an indictment of the opposing competition than it does promote Wyoming. A QB with a 56% accuracy managed to win enough games in the Mountain West to make a bowl game.
Completion percentage is one of those things where having a good one does not automatically make a QB good or even average. But a bad one is a clear indicator of a college QB that will not work out in the pros.
I think this is more of an indictment of the opposing competition than it does promote Wyoming. A QB with a 56% accuracy managed to win enough games in the Mountain West to make a bowl game.
Completion percentage is one of those things where having a good one does not automatically make a QB good or even average. But a bad one is a clear indicator of a college QB that will not work out in the pros.
6 wins is all you need to be bowl eligible. Nearly half of the D1 football teams get in a bowl game so that's not some great accomplishment.
And your 2nd point is exactly right on and precisely the point on Allen and Kizer. They were inaccurate in college, it's not going to get better as a pro. Kessler as Cal likes to point out had a great completion percentage and probably would in the NFL as well if he could avoid a concussion when putting on his helmet. But Kessler can't or won't throw the ball more than 5 yards at a time so it's easy to complete a lot of those.
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For full disclosure, I am concerned with Rosen's injury history. So this isn't some crusade to bag on Allen because I am someone who is rah-rahing for Rosen. None of the QBs have blown my hair back. Rosen has all the tools but I have my misgivings about a QB with a concussion history coming to Cleveland.
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