What Browns offered NE for Garappolo
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Don't believe this one bit. I'm pretty sure that after this trade happened the Browns said they didn't know that the Patriots were looking to trade Graoppolo and don't ever remember them saying that they just offered them the Texans 1st round pick
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I think this is another "bash the Browns " article.
Don't forget, the national media bashed the Browns because they reported there wasn't any effort by the Browns to get a deal done with NE before the deadline.
So what are we to believe? That Sashi tried and was denied? Or the bumbling Browns didn't try?
I'm not a Trump fan, but he's on to something with this "fake news" stuff.
I don't quite follow Bob.
The article says that the Browns offered the #4 overall pick, and says that the Patriots basically refused to offer the Browns (and everyone else) a chance at Garappolo.
If anything, it makes the Patriots look dysfunctional.
I don't quite follow Bob.
The article says that the Browns offered the #4 overall pick, and says that the Patriots basically refused to offer the Browns (and everyone else) a chance at Garappolo.
If anything, it makes the Patriots look dysfunctional.
I'm just trying to make a point on these so-called experts. Now that dirt came out on NE, suddenly Sashi was shrewd?
They can't have it both ways. Peter King, LaCanfora, Rappaport have been spewing anti-Browns stuff for quite some time. Much of it is deserved. In this particular Jimmy G case, it looks like they need to retract the FO bashing, but they won't.
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Is Billy Belichick still pissed at the BROWNS?
.......If they truly turned down a chance at the first-round pick the Browns had acquired from the Houston Texans only to accept a considerably less valuable second-round pick from San Francisco, it’s a head-scratcher.
The Patriots have won five Super Bowls in seven appearances during the Brady/Belichick era in large part because they almost always get the better end of transactions. That they wouldn’t negotiate with the Browns or any team other than the 49ers is a stunner and out of character for a normally shrewd organization.
Hmmmmm?
Is Billy Belichick still pissed at the BROWNS?
.......If they truly turned down a chance at the first-round pick the Browns had acquired from the Houston Texans only to accept a considerably less valuable second-round pick from San Francisco, it’s a head-scratcher.
The Patriots have won five Super Bowls in seven appearances during the Brady/Belichick era in large part because they almost always get the better end of transactions. That they wouldn’t negotiate with the Browns or any team other than the 49ers is a stunner and out of character for a normally shrewd organization.
Hmmmmm?
I don't see how he could be mad at the Browns. Modell fired him and that team is now in Baltimore.
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Here's more on this, from Terry Pluto...
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/01/how_cleveland_browns_were_froz.html
What a weird situation. It's almost like Belichick thought to himself: "Well if I have to make the stupid move of trading what should be our future QB, I'm going to make sure I'm hooking up my buddy Mike's son..."
Here's more on this, from Terry Pluto...
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/01/how_cleveland_browns_were_froz.html
What a weird situation. It's almost like Belichick thought to himself: "Well if I have to make the stupid move of trading what should be our future QB, I'm going to make sure I'm hooking up my buddy Mike's son..."
Guys, come on. If the Browns seriously offered the Patriots a top 5 pick compared to a 2nd round pick they would have taken it. This is just sensationalist garbage. The Patriots have become a dynasty in large part to making shrewd moves in the best interest of the organization. It's all but impossible to think they would have left that much draft capital on the table because of not wanting to trade with us. Use your noodle.
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@boo-fagley said:
The Jimmy trade made no sense for the Browns anyway.
Not with this draft. Jimmy is 4 years in this season. The Browns can draft a kid straight out of school. Add at least 2 - 3 years to the playing career that Jimmy doesnt have anymore.
Nope, draft a Stud QB, get Alex Smith who can win you 7 - 9 games and if the stars align, maybe the playoffs and draft a stud RB or WR with the # 4.
This is what many of us have been screaming for the past few months. The ONLY problem with this is we don't really have a backup plan. Sure, there are other veteran QB's who will be available, but Alex is (to me) by far the best. Cousins won't happen, so I don't even talk about that anymore. Once you get past the awful and unthinkable "0-16" record, and you begin to look at the actual PIECES of our team, it's not as awful as one would think. We're a young team who will obviously get a little older and wiser. We have a solid offensive line, maybe even "good" with Thomas back. As of right now, we have a few offensive weapons, including an elite caliber WR if he can make it back. Duke is exceptional out of the backfield, and Alex will make Njoku a LOT of money. Shoot, Devalve too. As bad as our team was, and that's HISTORICALLY bad, you can almost see some of the pieces coming together if we get a guy like Alex Smith.
Listen, I'm NOT saying we're going to the playoffs, and I'm not saying anything stupid like we're going "all the way!", but I can actually see what our team can become with the signing of a veteran QB. And that's just one piece, imagine signing some free agents and drafting talent as well. The Peppers pick really hurt us, but he was just a rookie in a bonkers scheme. If there's one thing I can say about the guy, he's a worker. He's driven, football-crazy, and he has a chance to make it all work.
To be honest, the guy who COULD benefit the absolute most is Corey Coleman. Alex Smith completed over 70% of his passes this year, and that's nutso. But even more, Smith is one of the game's BEST at "leading" his receiver and delivering the football in such a way that the receiver doesn't have to break stride. THAT'S what we really need from Corey, and he wasn't getting that from Kizer. How many of Corey's catches were diving efforts? Usually going very low to get his hands under the ball, and almost always coming up with the catch. Yes, he had two of the worst drops you'll ever see, but other than those two, he made some pretty tough plays for us. That being said, we STILL haven't seen the "electric plays" from Coleman. No broken tackles and big gains. No running with the ball, juking defenders, making people miss, and giving us the big play. Some of that is obviously his fault, but some of it isn't. A guy like Alex Smith could basically change Corey's CAREER.
Someone else? How about Higgins? No receiver gets the ball perfectly thrown to them every time they're open, we know that, but Higgins really should've had a better season. Kizer missed him at least 3 times in the end zone, multiple times deep, and countless other times when Kizer flat-out didn't even see him. Higgins was one of the only guys that showed the ability to get yards after the catch, even if it was only a handful of times. I actually really liked what I saw out of him, and believe it or not, Higgins was actually getting OPEN a good deal.
I'm not trying to make Alex Smith sound like the second coming of Joe Montana, I promise I'm not, but if you apply his abilities to what we do on offense, it's a very good fit (in my eyes). He's accurate, decisive, mobile, and knows how to get EVERYONE involved. In the second quarter of the Chiefs' last game, Alex already completed passes to 6 different players. I love that. Best of all, Alex doesn't turn the ball over much. How does THAT sound? Believe it or not, but we're starting to get some red zone weapons. How many times did Kizer try to throw the stupid fade pass? I'm pretty sure Alex has THAT pass in his arsenal. Njoku, Duke, Devalve, Gordon, Higgins, Coleman...all have shown they can get open in the red zone. Alex can actually HIT them more often than not.
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It is a simple, bottom line situation: BB was essentially forced by Kraft to trade JG. But there was no way in hell that he was going to trade him to another AFC team. He was going to trade him out of conference so that at best he would have to face him only once every 4 years....and not possibly every year. Even if they had to take less in trade for him, they were going to put him in the NFC.
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@boo-fagley said:
Bledsoe to the Bills
Brisett to the Colts
Seymour to the Raiders
Wilfork landed with the Texans
The AFC had nothing to do with it. Before the season began, the Browns wanted Jimmy, but Sashi would not come close to the asking price because Jimmy was set to be a FA after this season and contract negotiations with him were at an impasse. And also, for the reasons that I have previously stated that this is a QB rich draft. Sashi low balled Belichick and he told Brown to get fvcked.
When it was clear that Brady shows no signs of slowing down, Jimmy would not agree to another contract with more years responsible for holding the clipboard for the foreseeable future. Thereby leaving the Pats no option but to Franchise him to the tune of 20+ million for 2018. Brady is on the books for near 20 million in 2018 too. 40 million for 2 QBs? No.
So, when the Pats were forced to let Jimmy go for less than fair market price, SF got the nod because they did not try to weasel more off the asking price like Sashi did first time around. The Browns tried to pull a craigslist short money at the time of the sale and it got Sashi fired.
I agree that AFC didn't have anything to do with trading JG to SF.
I don't agree on why did Belichick not call Sashi, I'll post again what I said on 'Jimmy Grabsapillow traded to...' thread:
The case is that Browns offered a 2nd round pick for Jimmy Garoppolo in May, whereas the 49ers opted to get two FA. Both moves where made so none of the teams would draft a QB.
But the Brows finally did, and the rookie is playing, poorly, but playing.
So now, 6 months later, and half a season before the said player becomes free agent, who are you going to negotiate with: the team that already has a QB thanks to you not accepting a deal, or the team whose QB has not panned out and you know can work as your backup?
If I were Sashi, I doubt I would have offered the same as 6months earlier, and the Patriots knew SF could offer the same or more.
Bear in mind that Hoyer did not work at all in SF, so it was like trading Free Agents. I think that had a lot to do too.
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@boo-fagley said:
Bledsoe to the Bills over the hill
Brisett to the Colts...not considered a factor for the future.
Seymour to the Raiders over the hill
Wilfork landed with the Texans over the hill
NONE of these guys are anything like JG....who BB considered the team's future. These guys were considered the team's past when he got rid of them...and was not worried about them coming back to bite him in the butt. He was plenty worried about JG doing just that.
The AFC had nothing to do with it. Before the season began, the Browns wanted Jimmy, but Sashi would not come close to the asking price because Jimmy was set to be a FA after this season and contract negotiations with him were at an impasse. And also, for the reasons that I have previously stated that this is a QB rich draft. Sashi low balled Belichick and he told Brown to get fvcked.
So? He took an even more low ball offer from the 49ers?
When it was clear that Brady shows no signs of slowing down, Jimmy would not agree to another contract with more years responsible for holding the clipboard for the foreseeable future. Thereby leaving the Pats no option but to Franchise him to the tune of 20+ million for 2018. Brady is on the books for near 20 million in 2018 too. 40 million for 2 QBs? No.
I agree...it made no sense to pay that kind of money to both. Of course, BB could have done to Brady what he did to Bernie...and told him to take a hike. I think the Bernie thing may in fact be a contributing factor as to why he did not elect to let Brady go.....he didn't want the same kind of backlash....considering how much more of a "God" TB is in NE than Bernie probably was here.
So, when the Pats were forced to let Jimmy go for less than fair market price, SF got the nod because they did not try to weasel more off the asking price like Sashi did first time around. The Browns tried to pull a craigslist short money at the time of the sale and it got Sashi fired.
Well....apparently BB didn't try to weasel anything more out of anyone. On the other hand...BB may be thinking: " screw Kraft....I will just let JG go for a handful of beans when I likely could have gotten a lot more. They want me to get rid of what I consider to be the future of this team, fine. I am going to have no future here either....so I will just take minimal for JG...and let the Pats stew in it after I am gone."
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And yes...I think that getting Hoyer back from the Niners was a big factor as to why JG was dealt to the Niners.
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I like Jimmy when he came out and think the number for would be a good price. Somebody in the Patriots organization made a bad decision.
WSS
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I like Jimmy when he came out and think the number for would be a good price. Somebody in the Patriots organization made a bad decision.
WSS
I like Jimmy when he came out and think the number for would be a good price. Somebody in the Patriots organization made a bad decision.
WSS
To be fair, at the trade deadline the Texans were 3-4, and Watson was playing great, so anybody could have said that they could be even in the playoffs and that pick would be a #20
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I like Jimmy when he came out and think the number for would be a good price. Somebody in the Patriots organization made a bad decision.
WSS
To be fair, at the trade deadline the Texans were 3-4, and Watson was playing great, so anybody could have said that they could be even in the playoffs and that pick would be a #20
To be fair, at the trade deadline the Texans were 3-4, and Watson was playing great, so anybody could have said that they could be even in the playoffs and that pick would be a #20
And they got a second-rounder which would be oh, let me think, worse than a number 20?
Besides Hoyer is a bum. Sorry, he's a Cleveland guy and everything but...
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
And yes...I think that getting Hoyer back from the Niners was a big factor as to why JG was dealt to the Niners.
And yes...I think that getting Hoyer back from the Niners was a big factor as to why JG was dealt to the Niners.
Part of it, Gip. I see it as Kraft not being willing to part with Brady when the heir apparent is obviously ready in Billy's mind. I've said trading TB isn't unthinkable, as the 49ers did the same thing, trading Joe Montana to KC when they had Steve Young waiting in the wings. Seems like it came full circle. Patriot fans would have gotten over losing Tom when Jimmy kept on winning. We know Bill has zero sentimentality when it comes to keeping the wins coming. If the Browns really did offer a first round pick (I would have been temporarily pissed about it) it would have to have been Kraft overruling Bill.
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To be fair, at the trade deadline the Texans were 3-4, and Watson was playing great, so anybody could have said that they could be even in the playoffs and that pick would be a #20
And they got a second-rounder which would be oh, let me think, worse than a number 20?
Besides Hoyer is a bum. Sorry, he's a Cleveland guy and everything but...
WSS
And they got a second-rounder which would be oh, let me think, worse than a number 20?
Besides Hoyer is a bum. Sorry, he's a Cleveland guy and everything but...
WSS
I'm not saying that a second rounder isn't worse.
I'm just pointing that we know NOW that the Houston pick is #4. At the time you could think of it even as a #20.
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@boo-fagley said:
You dont know anything about JG.
Nobody really knows anything about JG.
He has won some games is all. Big deal. Jimmy has weaknesses just like Brady has weaknesses and the Patriots know full well how to take advantage of his flaws. Belichick has never traded a player out of the conference because he was afraid to face him again on another AFC team. Foolishness. A big factor in letting JG go was his desire to play now. It wasnt fair to keep him on the bench like it was an Ohio prison.
Seymour was not over the hill and played 4 more seasons
Bledsoe played 5 more seasons
Wilfork still had gas in the tank and Houston had a top 10 defense both seasons that he played NT there.
But keep throwing crap against the wall eventually something will stick.
Yes...the thing that sticks is that BB has always been willing to let go of guys "a year too early rather than a year too late"....and he idd that with all those guys: Seymour, Wilfork, Bledsoe.
You are making my point for me. And BB may have been willing to do the same with Brady....except Kraft would never allow that to happen. So TB was staying as the Pats starter, no matter what...and JG had to be let go for under market value.
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Here's more on this, from Terry Pluto...
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/01/how_cleveland_browns_were_froz.html
What a weird situation. It's almost like Belichick thought to himself: "Well if I have to make the stupid move of trading what should be our future QB, I'm going to make sure I'm hooking up my buddy Mike's son..."
Guys, come on. If the Browns seriously offered the Patriots a top 5 pick compared to a 2nd round pick they would have taken it. This is just sensationalist garbage. The Patriots have become a dynasty in large part to making shrewd moves in the best interest of the organization. It's all but impossible to think they would have left that much draft capital on the table because of not wanting to trade with us. Use your noodle.
Seymour over the hill... lol... only made the Pro Bowl in 2 of his 4 seasons with the Raiders.
Guys, come on. If the Browns seriously offered the Patriots a top 5 pick compared to a 2nd round pick they would have taken it. This is just sensationalist garbage. The Patriots have become a dynasty in large part to making shrewd moves in the best interest of the organization. It's all but impossible to think they would have left that much draft capital on the table because of not wanting to trade with us. Use your noodle.
It's entirely possible both stories are true...
- that in the preseason we did offer the Texans' pick (which at time we did not know was a top five pick... and probably thought was far from it),
- but that we were no longer offering that pick at mid-season.
Regardless the point remains that Bill only discussed the ultimate trade with one FO... and it wasn't us.
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Here's more on this, from Terry Pluto...
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/01/how_cleveland_browns_were_froz.html
What a weird situation. It's almost like Belichick thought to himself: "Well if I have to make the stupid move of trading what should be our future QB, I'm going to make sure I'm hooking up my buddy Mike's son..."
Guys, come on. If the Browns seriously offered the Patriots a top 5 pick compared to a 2nd round pick they would have taken it. This is just sensationalist garbage. The Patriots have become a dynasty in large part to making shrewd moves in the best interest of the organization. It's all but impossible to think they would have left that much draft capital on the table because of not wanting to trade with us. Use your noodle.
Guys, come on. If the Browns seriously offered the Patriots a top 5 pick compared to a 2nd round pick they would have taken it. This is just sensationalist garbage. The Patriots have become a dynasty in large part to making shrewd moves in the best interest of the organization. It's all but impossible to think they would have left that much draft capital on the table because of not wanting to trade with us. Use your noodle.
Maybe it came down to who Bill actually wanted to trade too.
SF he probably recognized a franchise heading the correct direction and would prob be able to safely secure Jimmy G
VS
Browns. Who doesn't take the best coach in the game to figure out Cleveland is probably going to struggle and within 6 months to a couple of years Jimmy G would leave cleveland to maybe a closer more dangerous FOE. Pittsburgh, Buffalo, colts, miami or even the Jets.
Put it this way. Would you turn your own 1st rounder into a 2nd rounder if that meant Pittsburgh had to lose a 24 year old Big Ben?
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
It is a simple, bottom line situation: BB was essentially forced by Kraft to trade JG. But there was no way in hell that he was going to trade him to another AFC team. He was going to trade him out of conference so that at best he would have to face him only once every 4 years....and not possibly every year. Even if they had to take less in trade for him, they were going to put him in the NFC.
It is a simple, bottom line situation: BB was essentially forced by Kraft to trade JG. But there was no way in hell that he was going to trade him to another AFC team. He was going to trade him out of conference so that at best he would have to face him only once every 4 years....and not possibly every year. Even if they had to take less in trade for him, they were going to put him in the NFC.
I can see not putting him in your division or maybe the AFC but SF only? (if you believe the articles verbatim)
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2 recentish trades come to mind where the Pats dealt with the likes of Sashi Brown, and l'd say the Browns got the better end of the deal.
Getting Collins and unloading Mingo for an actual draft pick.
Hardly fleecings, but a tip of the scale in our direction l think. Clearly the Pats feared Sashi Brown's dealing mojo and wanted no more of it.
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