Ongoing Questions re: Browns, History, Current & Past Team & Players
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Being new to the Browns' Nation I want to learn lots of things. So will keep my general questions to this one thread, instead of making a new thread for every question. Others are welcome to join me in learning by asking their own questions here.
1. Help me understand the Browns losing their team to Baltimore. How could that happen, why did it happen, what did it accomplish for that team and the league?
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation? Please tell me what you think the 1 main reason that would sum all this up. Is it bad luck, GM, coaches, poor drafting, player themselves, the city of Cleveland for some reason, something hovering over this team like a curse, what is it in your head that makes the most sense to you, a fan?
3. For the sake of levity after reading #2: If Browns were facing the Raiders, and a brawl broke out in one isolated area of the stadium filled with a somewhat equal number of both teams fans, who would win, the Raider fans or Brown fans? Is there one particular group of Browns' fans which would best represent you in such a skirmish?
Being new to the Browns' Nation I want to learn lots of things. So will keep my general questions to this one thread, instead of making a new thread for every question. Others are welcome to join me in learning by asking their own questions here.
1. Help me understand the Browns losing their team to Baltimore. How could that happen, why did it happen, what did it accomplish for that team and the league?
Oi.....a whole library section is available to this. I will boil your first two questions down to two words: Ownership Greed. On the second question, it accomplished what we currently have in terms of 32 teams, the divisional structure, and the playoff structure.
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation? Please tell me what you think the 1 main reason that would sum all this up. Is it bad luck, GM, coaches, poor drafting, player themselves, the city of Cleveland for some reason, something hovering over this team like a curse, what is it in your head that makes the most sense to you, a fan?
It is bad ownership, bad management, bad coaching, and bad players. It is not the City of Cleveland or some curse....it is just inept, incompetent personnell. Some bad luck due to the players they pick sucking badly...especially QBs.
3. For the sake of levity after reading #2: If Browns were facing the Raiders, and a brawl broke out in one isolated area of the stadium filled with a somewhat equal number of both teams fans, who would win, the Raider fans or Brown fans? Is there one particular group of Browns' fans which would best represent you in such a skirmish?
This is not levity...it is stupidity. The fans that win would be the one that brings the most guns. Or the best guns. Automatics vs. single shot.
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#1 - The Browns moved away because Art Modell wanted Municipal Stadium overhauled and to be paid by the city, state, etc. But they wouldn't do it. Instead they built a new stadium for the baseball team...because there was no guarantee they would stay and play in THAT piece of crap stadium (which was a baseball stadium...and NOT a football stadium). - The Browns had to put 50 guys into a locker room built for a 25 person baseball locker room (25 or so). They even had to use the VISITOR locker room because the league told them that it was ridiculous to make the visiting football team have to be squeezed into that locker room.
Eventually, someone made Art an offer and off he went with his team. Art IS in fact the evil one for moving the team...but really, to blame was the elected officials. IMO
#2 - Since then ownership has not been able to bring the right people together to run the team and acquire talent.
#1 - The Browns moved away because Art Modell wanted Municipal Stadium overhauled and to be paid by the city, state, etc. But they wouldn't do it. Instead they built a new stadium for the baseball team...because there was no guarantee they would stay and play in THAT piece of crap stadium (which was a baseball stadium...and NOT a football stadium). - The Browns had to put 50 guys into a locker room built for a 25 person baseball locker room (25 or so). They even had to use the VISITOR locker room because the league told them that it was ridiculous to make the visiting football team have to be squeezed into that locker room.
Eventually, someone made Art an offer and off he went with his team. Art IS in fact the evil one for moving the team...but really, to blame was the elected officials. IMO
#2 - Since then ownership has not been able to bring the right people together to run the team and acquire talent.
And this is why you cannont ask fans about "what happened" because many if not most of them will get it double dumbass dead wrong.....like in #1 above.
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#1 - The Browns moved away because Art Modell wanted Municipal Stadium overhauled and to be paid by the city, state, etc. But they wouldn't do it. Instead they built a new stadium for the baseball team...because there was no guarantee they would stay and play in THAT piece of crap stadium (which was a baseball stadium...and NOT a football stadium). - The Browns had to put 50 guys into a locker room built for a 25 person baseball locker room (25 or so). They even had to use the VISITOR locker room because the league told them that it was ridiculous to make the visiting football team have to be squeezed into that locker room.
Eventually, someone made Art an offer and off he went with his team. Art IS in fact the evil one for moving the team...but really, to blame was the elected officials. IMO
Thx, nice concise answer.
Thx, nice concise answer.
Perhaps, on #2 But If you like mostly completely wrong answers that are concise go with #1.
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Owning a NFL team is a license to print money.
That being said, Art Modell still ended up going broke.
That pretty much is the story of how the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens.
Owning a NFL team is a license to print money.
That being said, Art Modell still ended up going broke.
That pretty much is the story of how the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens.
Again...except that the Cleveland Browns NEVER became the Baltimore Ravens. Sorry....but since this guy is a newbie...I think it is worth giving him accurate responses.
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Art wanted to have his cake and eat it too-
By the way...as an aside and off topic....the idiom you quote here had a major part in the identification and capture of the Unabomber.
While this article doesn't explain that specifically......Ted Kaczinski on a couple of occasions used this phrase in his manifesto and in some letters, only he stated it this way: "(he) wanted to eat his cake and have it too".
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Being new to the Browns' Nation I want to learn lots of things. So will keep my general questions to this one thread, instead of making a new thread for every question. Others are welcome to join me in learning by asking their own questions here.
1. Help me understand the Browns losing their team to Baltimore. How could that happen, why did it happen, what did it accomplish for that team and the league?
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation? Please tell me what you think the 1 main reason that would sum all this up. Is it bad luck, GM, coaches, poor drafting, player themselves, the city of Cleveland for some reason, something hovering over this team like a curse, what is it in your head that makes the most sense to you, a fan?
3. For the sake of levity after reading #2: If Browns were facing the Raiders, and a brawl broke out in one isolated area of the stadium filled with a somewhat equal number of both teams fans, who would win, the Raider fans or Brown fans? Is there one particular group of Browns' fans which would best represent you in such a skirmish?
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation? Please tell me what you think the 1 main reason that would sum all this up. Is it bad luck, GM, coaches, poor drafting, player themselves, the city of Cleveland for some reason, something hovering over this team like a curse, what is it in your head that makes the most sense to you, a fan?
3. For the sake of levity after reading #2: If Browns were facing the Raiders, and a brawl broke out in one isolated area of the stadium filled with a somewhat equal number of both teams fans, who would win, the Raider fans or Brown fans? Is there one particular group of Browns' fans which would best represent you in such a skirmish?
2. We started off in a hole. The prior NFL expansion teams (CAR and JAX in 1995) got very good deals entering the league including a generous expansion draft and additional common draft picks. As a result they developed very quickly and both made the playoffs in their 2nd season. The owners vowed to never be so generous again. So in '99 here we come and they kept their vow.
Our original owner, Al Lerner, was a well intentioned man, but his initial hire to run the team, Carmen Policy was a disaster. The following from Bill Livingston, long time Cleveland Sportswriter:
Carmen Policy, the empty suit hired by Al to run the team... I can't think of anyone else in Cleveland sports in the last 30 years who rode into town with similar fanfare and delivered so little in comparison. The ballyhoo was tremendous. Policy and Lerner would be a "Dream Team." When Cleveland fans awoke from their nightmare, it was obvious that Policy was a snake-oil salesman, riding on a salary-cap trick and a shoeshine. It took perceptiveness and guts for Randy to nudge Policy out because he had so charmed Al.
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2012/08/randy_lerners_reign_over_the_c.html
3. Raiders fans... more spiked outfits, clubs and such vs. a couple oversized dogbones...
#1 - The Browns moved away because Art Modell wanted Municipal Stadium overhauled and to be paid by the city, state, etc. But they wouldn't do it. Instead they built a new stadium for the baseball team...because there was no guarantee they would stay and play in THAT piece of crap stadium (which was a baseball stadium...and NOT a football stadium).
Old Muni was a fixed-seating, multi-use facility that wasn't great for either sport... but it had capacity. I remember 80k+ crowds for football including pre-season back in the days of the "Pro Football Double-Headers", which were basically NFL fundraisers for Art.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I can't remember who said this about Carmen Policy, but everyone knows someone like this:
"If you want to know who the richest person is in any room, just look and see who Carmen Policy is talking to..."
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#1 - The Browns moved away because Art Modell wanted Municipal Stadium overhauled and to be paid by the city, state, etc. But they wouldn't do it. Instead they built a new stadium for the baseball team...because there was no guarantee they would stay and play in THAT piece of crap stadium (which was a baseball stadium...and NOT a football stadium). - The Browns had to put 50 guys into a locker room built for a 25 person baseball locker room (25 or so). They even had to use the VISITOR locker room because the league told them that it was ridiculous to make the visiting football team have to be squeezed into that locker room.
Eventually, someone made Art an offer and off he went with his team. Art IS in fact the evil one for moving the team...but really, to blame was the elected officials. IMO
#2 - Since then ownership has not been able to bring the right people together to run the team and acquire talent.
And this is why you cannont ask fans about "what happened" because many if not most of them will get it double dumbass dead wrong.....like in #1 above.
And this is why you cannont ask fans about "what happened" because many if not most of them will get it double dumbass dead wrong.....like in #1 above.
Yes, The Gipper has a different take. - Stick with mine.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation? Please tell me what you think the 1 main reason that would sum all this up. Is it bad luck, GM, coaches, poor drafting, player themselves, the city of Cleveland for some reason, something hovering over this team like a curse, what is it in your head that makes the most sense to you, a fan?
3. For the sake of levity after reading #2: If Browns were facing the Raiders, and a brawl broke out in one isolated area of the stadium filled with a somewhat equal number of both teams fans, who would win, the Raider fans or Brown fans? Is there one particular group of Browns' fans which would best represent you in such a skirmish?
2. We started off in a hole. The prior NFL expansion teams (CAR and JAX in 1995) got very good deals entering the league including a generous expansion draft and additional common draft picks. As a result they developed very quickly and both made the playoffs in their 2nd season. The owners vowed to never be so generous again. So in '99 here we come and they kept their vow.
Our original owner, Al Lerner, was a well intentioned man, but his initial hire to run the team, Carmen Policy was a disaster. The following from Bill Livingston, long time Cleveland Sportswriter:
Carmen Policy, the empty suit hired by Al to run the team... I can't think of anyone else in Cleveland sports in the last 30 years who rode into town with similar fanfare and delivered so little in comparison. The ballyhoo was tremendous. Policy and Lerner would be a "Dream Team." When Cleveland fans awoke from their nightmare, it was obvious that Policy was a snake-oil salesman, riding on a salary-cap trick and a shoeshine. It took perceptiveness and guts for Randy to nudge Policy out because he had so charmed Al.
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2012/08/randy_lerners_reign_over_the_c.html
3. Raiders fans... more spiked outfits, clubs and such vs. a couple oversized dogbones...
#1 - The Browns moved away because Art Modell wanted Municipal Stadium overhauled and to be paid by the city, state, etc. But they wouldn't do it. Instead they built a new stadium for the baseball team...because there was no guarantee they would stay and play in THAT piece of crap stadium (which was a baseball stadium...and NOT a football stadium).
Old Muni was a fixed-seating, multi-use facility that wasn't great for either sport... but it had capacity. I remember 80k+ crowds for football including pre-season back in the days of the "Pro Football Double-Headers", which were basically NFL fundraisers for Art.
Old Muni was a fixed-seating, multi-use facility that wasn't great for either sport... but it had capacity. I remember 80k+ crowds for football including pre-season back in the days of the "Pro Football Double-Headers", which were basically NFL fundraisers for Art.
It was one of the LOUDEST places in the league.
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And this is why you cannont ask fans about "what happened" because many if not most of them will get it double dumbass dead wrong.....like in #1 above.
Yes, The Gipper has a different take. - Stick with mine.
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I can't remember who said this about Carmen Policy, but everyone knows someone like this:
"If you want to know who the richest person is in any room, just look and see who Carmen Policy is talking to..."
I can't remember who said this about Carmen Policy, but everyone knows someone like this:
"If you want to know who the richest person is in any room, just look and see who Carmen Policy is talking to..."
Oh yeah "Charmin' Carmen" used to live about 2 miles from me, I also knew his old law partner. He tagged along to SF back during their heyday and unfortunately ended up as part of the BROWNS 2.0 rebuild.
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--About Cleveland's first game and first couple seasons in the AAFC... read the bold...
After a training camp at Bowling Green State University, the Browns played their first game in September 1946 at Cleveland Stadium.[76] A crowd of 60,135 people showed up to see the Browns beat the Miami Seahawks 44–0, then a record attendance mark for professional football.[77] That touched off a string of wins; the team ended the season with a 12–2 record and the top spot in the AAFC's western division.[78] The Browns then beat the AAFC's New York Yankees in the championship.[79]
Cleveland won the AAFC championship again in 1947 behind an offensive attack that employed the forward pass more frequently and effectively than was typical at the time.[80] The Browns' offensive success was driven by Brown's version of the T formation, which was gradually replacing the single-wing formation as football's most popular and effective scheme.[81]
The Browns won every game in the 1948 season, a feat that went unmatched until the Miami Dolphins (coached by Brown disciple Don Shula) did it in 1972.[80]Cleveland then won the AAFC championship for the fourth time in a row in 1949. By then, however, the league was struggling for survival, due in part to the Browns' dominance.[82] Attendance at games dwindled in 1948 and 1949 as fans lost interest in lopsided victories, and at the end of the 1949 season the AAFC dissolved. Three of its teams, the San Francisco 49ers, the Baltimore Colts and the Browns, merged into the NFL.[82] The Browns picked up a few good former AAFC players from other teams, including offensive guard Abe Gibron and defensive end Len Ford, but some observers saw Brown's team as the lone standout in an otherwise minor league.[83]
...Wow dawg, we really just got sick of winning.... I guess this is payback... what. a. bitch.
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Being new to the Browns' Nation I want to learn lots of things. So will keep my general questions to this one thread, instead of making a new thread for every question. Others are welcome to join me in learning by asking their own questions here.
1. Help me understand the Browns losing their team to Baltimore. How could that happen, why did it happen, what did it accomplish for that team and the league?
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation? Please tell me what you think the 1 main reason that would sum all this up. Is it bad luck, GM, coaches, poor drafting, player themselves, the city of Cleveland for some reason, something hovering over this team like a curse, what is it in your head that makes the most sense to you, a fan?
3. For the sake of levity after reading #2: If Browns were facing the Raiders, and a brawl broke out in one isolated area of the stadium filled with a somewhat equal number of both teams fans, who would win, the Raider fans or Brown fans? Is there one particular group of Browns' fans which would best represent you in such a skirmish?
2. Maybe I will make this into a poll, but for now: What has been the #1 Browns' problem? What is the may reason they find themselves in such a situation?
I have never seen a better explanation of how miraculously inept the Browns are than is detailed in this short video. Please watch it. The bottomless pit of The Browns ineptitude is nothing short of supernatural.
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