Tabor On The Move
-
The guy was responsible for the worst guys on the worst team in the history of professional football. What the hell would you expect?
-
We don't get that field goal blocked on the first driver versus Pittsburgh we win that game. And our kickers have blown games the last two years. Fuck this guy.
Zombo
Zombo said:
We don't get that field goal blocked on the first driver versus Pittsburgh we win that game. And our kickers have blown games the last two years. Shmuck this guy.
Zombo
Gumby mentioned the amount of penalties, then there was the "kick six" against the Ravens. PD put that play as one of the top 10 worst of the decade.
-
Shame to see him go. But special teams was cheeks this year.
This year? STs have pretty much been shite since Josh Cribbs left.
-
The guy was responsible for the worst guys on the worst team in the history of professional football. What the hell would you expect?
The guy was responsible for the worst guys on the worst team in the history of professional football. What the hell would you expect?
There may be some legitimacy to this: As we know....Logan's Run Sashi hated to have any veterans on his team that might have cost a few farthings more than all the rookies and UDFAs he wanted. So all the STs were manned by seriously in experienced players. I mean....did they even have a special team's captain. So....possibly, Tabor had to use all young guys who had no experience...and perhaps no desire to play on STs. A couple of veteran guys to show these young STers how to do it may have helped.
-
Special teams SUCKED the whole time this guy was here. Thank God he's gone!
That's demonstrably false. In fact, before the 2016 season our ST units were never ranked below 15th, and even finished 2nd in 2012.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2016
He had a rough past few years in terms of rank, but our team has also been pathetic. Imagine trying to coach the largely back-ups of an 0-16 team-do you think you'd have an elite squad?
Tabor is a respected coach because he's good at what he does.
That's demonstrably false. In fact, before the 2016 season our ST units were never ranked below 15th, and even finished 2nd in 2012.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2016
He had a rough past few years in terms of rank, but our team has also been pathetic. Imagine trying to coach the largely back-ups of an 0-16 team-do you think you'd have an elite squad?
Tabor is a respected coach because he's good at what he does.
When was the last time we had a threat to run back a kick off, or punt? Better yet....when was the last time we didn't cringe, half expecting our returner to fumble trying to catch the ball? These players made an NFL roster....they had to be talented to get here. Either they all scammed their way into the NFL, or the coach, responsible for helping them didn't do the job. He sucked and I'm thrilled he's gone.
-
That's demonstrably false. In fact, before the 2016 season our ST units were never ranked below 15th, and even finished 2nd in 2012.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2016
He had a rough past few years in terms of rank, but our team has also been pathetic. Imagine trying to coach the largely back-ups of an 0-16 team-do you think you'd have an elite squad?
Tabor is a respected coach because he's good at what he does.
When was the last time we had a threat to run back a kick off, or punt? Better yet....when was the last time we didn't cringe, half expecting our returner to fumble trying to catch the ball? These players made an NFL roster....they had to be talented to get here. Either they all scammed their way into the NFL, or the coach, responsible for helping them didn't do the job. He sucked and I'm thrilled he's gone.
When was the last time we had a threat to run back a kick off, or punt? Better yet....when was the last time we didn't cringe, half expecting our returner to fumble trying to catch the ball? These players made an NFL roster....they had to be talented to get here. Either they all scammed their way into the NFL, or the coach, responsible for helping them didn't do the job. He sucked and I'm thrilled he's gone.
Peppers was supposed to be the second coming of Gale Sayers, or Eric Metcalf at returns. WTF happened there? Was it Tabor....or was Pepper overrated? Or what?
-
That's demonstrably false. In fact, before the 2016 season our ST units were never ranked below 15th, and even finished 2nd in 2012.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2016
He had a rough past few years in terms of rank, but our team has also been pathetic. Imagine trying to coach the largely back-ups of an 0-16 team-do you think you'd have an elite squad?
Tabor is a respected coach because he's good at what he does.
When was the last time we had a threat to run back a kick off, or punt? Better yet....when was the last time we didn't cringe, half expecting our returner to fumble trying to catch the ball? These players made an NFL roster....they had to be talented to get here. Either they all scammed their way into the NFL, or the coach, responsible for helping them didn't do the job. He sucked and I'm thrilled he's gone.
When was the last time we had a threat to run back a kick off, or punt? Better yet....when was the last time we didn't cringe, half expecting our returner to fumble trying to catch the ball? These players made an NFL roster....they had to be talented to get here. Either they all scammed their way into the NFL, or the coach, responsible for helping them didn't do the job. He sucked and I'm thrilled he's gone.
Ah yes, the classic browns forum "I don't believe in stats or care because I saw it!" argument.
If the team was talented they would have won a game, so no. Tabor also has little to nothing to do in acquiring talent, so what do you want him to do exactly? Do you want him to point to Rudy in the stands and have him run the ball back? Jesus Christ.
Lastly, punt/kickoff returns aren't some thing that just happens. In fact, the Browns this year were 3rd and 5th in punt and kickoff return average yards, respectively. They were also one of 6 teams with a kickoff return TD: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnTouchdowns/position/defense
But yeah, Shmuck this guy!
-
When was the last time we had a threat to run back a kick off, or punt? Better yet....when was the last time we didn't cringe, half expecting our returner to fumble trying to catch the ball? These players made an NFL roster....they had to be talented to get here. Either they all scammed their way into the NFL, or the coach, responsible for helping them didn't do the job. He sucked and I'm thrilled he's gone.
Ah yes, the classic browns forum "I don't believe in stats or care because I saw it!" argument.
If the team was talented they would have won a game, so no. Tabor also has little to nothing to do in acquiring talent, so what do you want him to do exactly? Do you want him to point to Rudy in the stands and have him run the ball back? Jesus Christ.
Lastly, punt/kickoff returns aren't some thing that just happens. In fact, the Browns this year were 3rd and 5th in punt and kickoff return average yards, respectively. They were also one of 6 teams with a kickoff return TD: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnTouchdowns/position/defense
But yeah, Shmuck this guy!
Ah yes, the classic browns forum "I don't believe in stats or care because I saw it!" argument.
If the team was talented they would have won a game, so no. Tabor also has little to nothing to do in acquiring talent, so what do you want him to do exactly? Do you want him to point to Rudy in the stands and have him run the ball back? Jesus Christ.
Lastly, punt/kickoff returns aren't some thing that just happens. In fact, the Browns this year were 3rd and 5th in punt and kickoff return average yards, respectively. They were also one of 6 teams with a kickoff return TD: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnTouchdowns/position/defense
But yeah, Shmuck this guy!
Ah yes....the classic Hue Jackson argument. No talent to win more than 1 out of 31. We were rated 27TH in special teams by Football Outsiders...26TH last year. Yes...you can always find some statistics to support any side of an argument.
-
obviously he knew a lot. The problem is - some of his players played undisciplined football.
The stupid mistakes again and again...... either some of these players are THAT stupid ...
or they are just po'd and want to screw up to get off special teams.
or something. I don't get it - Tabor didn't fix it, so....
-
Ah yes, the classic browns forum "I don't believe in stats or care because I saw it!" argument.
If the team was talented they would have won a game, so no. Tabor also has little to nothing to do in acquiring talent, so what do you want him to do exactly? Do you want him to point to Rudy in the stands and have him run the ball back? Jesus Christ.
Lastly, punt/kickoff returns aren't some thing that just happens. In fact, the Browns this year were 3rd and 5th in punt and kickoff return average yards, respectively. They were also one of 6 teams with a kickoff return TD: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnTouchdowns/position/defense
But yeah, Shmuck this guy!
Ah yes....the classic Hue Jackson argument. No talent to win more than 1 out of 31. We were rated 27TH in special teams by Football Outsiders...26TH last year. Yes...you can always find some statistics to support any side of an argument.
Ah yes....the classic Hue Jackson argument. No talent to win more than 1 out of 31. We were rated 27TH in special teams by Football Outsiders...26TH last year. Yes...you can always find some statistics to support any side of an argument.
And I've clearly noted that in my first comment that his ranks were lower the last two years. I said that out loud, do you just not care to read?
The fundamental difference you're not choosing (or understanding more likely) to make is that Tabor has extremely limited and likely no decision on the roster compared to Hue. Tabor is stuck with who he gets from the FO and HC, and still managed to not be dead last despite a talent pool of winning 1 game in two seasons. In fact, he's been a rabbit out of his hat for years in terms of maximizing talent on below average to bad teams. But again, Shmuck that guy am I right?
-
Special teams SUCKED the whole time this guy was here. Thank God he's gone!
That's demonstrably false. In fact, before the 2016 season our ST units were never ranked below 15th, and even finished 2nd in 2012.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2016
He had a rough past few years in terms of rank, but our team has also been pathetic. Imagine trying to coach the largely back-ups of an 0-16 team-do you think you'd have an elite squad?
Tabor is a respected coach because he's good at what he does.
Imagine trying to coach the largely back-ups of an 0-16 team-do you think you'd have an elite squad?
Tabor is a respected coach because he's good at what he does.
Tabor losing his ST Captain Tank Cardner before season did not help a young crew,nor Tabor..Next leader was Dominique Alexander. He went down too early in season. Tabor was youth scrub hunting than..imo Chris Tabor has survived 2 or 3 coaching changes here ..Enter Dorsey, now viewing Browns practice & game tapes & Tabor has been around long enough & see's the righting on the wall..Not sure Hue would even back Tabor at this point?
-
Ah yes....the classic Hue Jackson argument. No talent to win more than 1 out of 31. We were rated 27TH in special teams by Football Outsiders...26TH last year. Yes...you can always find some statistics to support any side of an argument.
And I've clearly noted that in my first comment that his ranks were lower the last two years. I said that out loud, do you just not care to read?
The fundamental difference you're not choosing (or understanding more likely) to make is that Tabor has extremely limited and likely no decision on the roster compared to Hue. Tabor is stuck with who he gets from the FO and HC, and still managed to not be dead last despite a talent pool of winning 1 game in two seasons. In fact, he's been a rabbit out of his hat for years in terms of maximizing talent on below average to bad teams. But again, Shmuck that guy am I right?
And I've clearly noted that in my first comment that his ranks were lower the last two years. I said that out loud, do you just not care to read?
The fundamental difference you're not choosing (or understanding more likely) to make is that Tabor has extremely limited and likely no decision on the roster compared to Hue. Tabor is stuck with who he gets from the FO and HC, and still managed to not be dead last despite a talent pool of winning 1 game in two seasons. In fact, he's been a rabbit out of his hat for years in terms of maximizing talent on below average to bad teams. But again, Shmuck that guy am I right?
Sorry...just because you noted and included your disclaimer with your opinion, doesn't mean crap to me. The bottom line is results. I don't care if Tabor had his special teams firmly in the 16th or 17th best, briefly, several years ago. You can't cut all the players just because the coaches are not doing their jobs. I'm sure Tabor had freedom to make the decisions on who to play, and where to play them. The special teams have been pitiful in every phase. Don't be concerned about what I understand. I understand enough to see other special teams doing more with less. Yes....maybe we can have a parade for him for not being dead last in the rankings. For me, 26th is bad enough.
-
Ah yes....the classic Hue Jackson argument. No talent to win more than 1 out of 31. We were rated 27TH in special teams by Football Outsiders...26TH last year. Yes...you can always find some statistics to support any side of an argument.
And I've clearly noted that in my first comment that his ranks were lower the last two years. I said that out loud, do you just not care to read?
The fundamental difference you're not choosing (or understanding more likely) to make is that Tabor has extremely limited and likely no decision on the roster compared to Hue. Tabor is stuck with who he gets from the FO and HC, and still managed to not be dead last despite a talent pool of winning 1 game in two seasons. In fact, he's been a rabbit out of his hat for years in terms of maximizing talent on below average to bad teams. But again, Shmuck that guy am I right?
And I've clearly noted that in my first comment that his ranks were lower the last two years. I said that out loud, do you just not care to read?
The fundamental difference you're not choosing (or understanding more likely) to make is that Tabor has extremely limited and likely no decision on the roster compared to Hue. Tabor is stuck with who he gets from the FO and HC, and still managed to not be dead last despite a talent pool of winning 1 game in two seasons. In fact, he's been a rabbit out of his hat for years in terms of maximizing talent on below average to bad teams. But again, Shmuck that guy am I right?
Somewhat right but it sure seems like a long time since our STs were respected around the league. Hear me out. We've had other losing teams where 3 STs players made the Pro Bowl like Dawson, Cribbs and Pontbriand. It wasn't uncommon to see 2 guys from this unit make the Pro Bowl before we added the male cheerleader to the staff way too many moons ago.
When you get a punt blocked for a TD up the middle in the opening week in a game we only lost by 3 points to Pitt - it's an assignment breakdown. BTW, the guy who blocked and scored was a backup LBer that never sees the field. Someone else tried an onside kick because they saw on film the entire front line of our KO return team was turning their backs/heads to the ball in retreat. Lucky for us 1 guy was slightly offsides; but the sloppy lack of discipline and shortcuts taken by this unit goes/stays on film. How many times have the Ratbirds blocked important kicks on us over the years. A couple years ago they blocked what would have been a go ahead kick and returned it for a TD. Another year they blocked an extra point in a close game we lost. Speaking of closes games lost, the second close game Pitt beat us in this year while they rested their QB, elite WR and elite RB - the youngest guy on their team returned a KO all the way. GB also had 65 yard punt return that REALLY shortened the field for their backup QB to lead them to the go ahead TD without much time on the clock.
Then there's also been recent seasons where we always had guys out of position or taking shortcuts on the return unit (Canton Mike remembered well) often pinning us half the distance to the goal line. Often the same culprits without consequences, which was why they continued to repeat the penalties.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
-
-
Or the last 8 years...
Kindly read my comments, because again this is objectively false.
Somewhat right but it sure seems like a long time since our STs were respected around the league. Hear me out. We've had other losing teams where 3 STs players made the Pro Bowl like Dawson, Cribbs and Pontbriand. It wasn't uncommon to see 2 guys from this unit make the Pro Bowl before we added the male cheerleader to the staff way too many moons ago.
When you get a punt blocked for a TD up the middle in the opening week in a game we only lost by 3 points to Pitt - it's an assignment breakdown. BTW, the guy who blocked and scored was a backup LBer that never sees the field. Someone else tried an onside kick because they saw on film the entire front line of our KO return team was turning their backs/heads to the ball in retreat. Lucky for us 1 guy was slightly offsides; but the sloppy lack of discipline and shortcuts taken by this unit goes/stays on film. How many times have the Ratbirds blocked important kicks on us over the years. A couple years ago they blocked what would have been a go ahead kick and returned it for a TD. Another year they blocked an extra point in a close game we lost. Speaking of closes games lost, the second close game Pitt beat us in this year while they rested their QB, elite WR and elite RB - the youngest guy on their team returned a KO all the way. GB also had 65 yard punt return that REALLY shortened the field for their backup QB to lead them to the go ahead TD without much time on the clock.
Then there's also been recent seasons where we always had guys out of position or taking shortcuts on the return unit (Canton Mike remembered well) often pinning us half the distance to the goal line. Often the same culprits without consequences, which was why they continued repeated to repeat the penalties.
Sure, I'll meet you in the middle on some of that stuff. My point here is that Tabor has demonstrated that even with below average talent he could muster a ST unit in the top half of the league or better. It's critically important to realize as well that Tabor is going to have extremely minimal say on roster decisions, so he's stuck with the guys he has. My point here is that while ST ranks have been down, so has the franchise.
Some will fall on the coaches, I'm not going to sit there and say it doesn't. But I'm also going to have faith in a coach who has proven results on below average teams that a few "down" years will accompany managing a unit of backups for two seasons combining in one win.
-
Or the last 8 years...
Kindly read my comments, because again this is objectively false.
Somewhat right but it sure seems like a long time since our STs were respected around the league. Hear me out. We've had other losing teams where 3 STs players made the Pro Bowl like Dawson, Cribbs and Pontbriand. It wasn't uncommon to see 2 guys from this unit make the Pro Bowl before we added the male cheerleader to the staff way too many moons ago.
When you get a punt blocked for a TD up the middle in the opening week in a game we only lost by 3 points to Pitt - it's an assignment breakdown. BTW, the guy who blocked and scored was a backup LBer that never sees the field. Someone else tried an onside kick because they saw on film the entire front line of our KO return team was turning their backs/heads to the ball in retreat. Lucky for us 1 guy was slightly offsides; but the sloppy lack of discipline and shortcuts taken by this unit goes/stays on film. How many times have the Ratbirds blocked important kicks on us over the years. A couple years ago they blocked what would have been a go ahead kick and returned it for a TD. Another year they blocked an extra point in a close game we lost. Speaking of closes games lost, the second close game Pitt beat us in this year while they rested their QB, elite WR and elite RB - the youngest guy on their team returned a KO all the way. GB also had 65 yard punt return that REALLY shortened the field for their backup QB to lead them to the go ahead TD without much time on the clock.
Then there's also been recent seasons where we always had guys out of position or taking shortcuts on the return unit (Canton Mike remembered well) often pinning us half the distance to the goal line. Often the same culprits without consequences, which was why they continued repeated to repeat the penalties.
Sure, I'll meet you in the middle on some of that stuff. My point here is that Tabor has demonstrated that even with below average talent he could muster a ST unit in the top half of the league or better. It's critically important to realize as well that Tabor is going to have extremely minimal say on roster decisions, so he's stuck with the guys he has. My point here is that while ST ranks have been down, so has the franchise.
Some will fall on the coaches, I'm not going to sit there and say it doesn't. But I'm also going to have faith in a coach who has proven results on below average teams that a few "down" years will accompany managing a unit of backups for two seasons combining in one win.
Kindly read my comments, because again this is objectively false.
Sure, I'll meet you in the middle on some of that stuff. My point here is that Tabor has demonstrated that even with below average talent he could muster a ST unit in the top half of the league or better. It's critically important to realize as well that Tabor is going to have extremely minimal say on roster decisions, so he's stuck with the guys he has. My point here is that while ST ranks have been down, so has the franchise.
Some will fall on the coaches, I'm not going to sit there and say it doesn't. But I'm also going to have faith in a coach who has proven results on below average teams that a few "down" years will accompany managing a unit of backups for two seasons combining in one win.
You are unobjectively wrong!! There!.. I win!
-
And I've clearly noted that in my first comment that his ranks were lower the last two years. I said that out loud, do you just not care to read?
The fundamental difference you're not choosing (or understanding more likely) to make is that Tabor has extremely limited and likely no decision on the roster compared to Hue. Tabor is stuck with who he gets from the FO and HC, and still managed to not be dead last despite a talent pool of winning 1 game in two seasons. In fact, he's been a rabbit out of his hat for years in terms of maximizing talent on below average to bad teams. But again, Shmuck that guy am I right?
Somewhat right but it sure seems like a long time since our STs were respected around the league. Hear me out. We've had other losing teams where 3 STs players made the Pro Bowl like Dawson, Cribbs and Pontbriand. It wasn't uncommon to see 2 guys from this unit make the Pro Bowl before we added the male cheerleader to the staff way too many moons ago.
When you get a punt blocked for a TD up the middle in the opening week in a game we only lost by 3 points to Pitt - it's an assignment breakdown. BTW, the guy who blocked and scored was a backup LBer that never sees the field. Someone else tried an onside kick because they saw on film the entire front line of our KO return team was turning their backs/heads to the ball in retreat. Lucky for us 1 guy was slightly offsides; but the sloppy lack of discipline and shortcuts taken by this unit goes/stays on film. How many times have the Ratbirds blocked important kicks on us over the years. A couple years ago they blocked what would have been a go ahead kick and returned it for a TD. Another year they blocked an extra point in a close game we lost. Speaking of closes games lost, the second close game Pitt beat us in this year while they rested their QB, elite WR and elite RB - the youngest guy on their team returned a KO all the way. GB also had 65 yard punt return that REALLY shortened the field for their backup QB to lead them to the go ahead TD without much time on the clock.
Then there's also been recent seasons where we always had guys out of position or taking shortcuts on the return unit (Canton Mike remembered well) often pinning us half the distance to the goal line. Often the same culprits without consequences, which was why they continued to repeat the penalties.
Somewhat right but it sure seems like a long time since our STs were respected around the league. Hear me out. We've had other losing teams where 3 STs players made the Pro Bowl like Dawson, Cribbs and Pontbriand. It wasn't uncommon to see 2 guys from this unit make the Pro Bowl before we added the male cheerleader to the staff way too many moons ago.
When you get a punt blocked for a TD up the middle in the opening week in a game we only lost by 3 points to Pitt - it's an assignment breakdown. BTW, the guy who blocked and scored was a backup LBer that never sees the field. Someone else tried an onside kick because they saw on film the entire front line of our KO return team was turning their backs/heads to the ball in retreat. Lucky for us 1 guy was slightly offsides; but the sloppy lack of discipline and shortcuts taken by this unit goes/stays on film. How many times have the Ratbirds blocked important kicks on us over the years. A couple years ago they blocked what would have been a go ahead kick and returned it for a TD. Another year they blocked an extra point in a close game we lost. Speaking of closes games lost, the second close game Pitt beat us in this year while they rested their QB, elite WR and elite RB - the youngest guy on their team returned a KO all the way. GB also had 65 yard punt return that REALLY shortened the field for their backup QB to lead them to the go ahead TD without much time on the clock.
Then there's also been recent seasons where we always had guys out of position or taking shortcuts on the return unit (Canton Mike remembered well) often pinning us half the distance to the goal line. Often the same culprits without consequences, which was why they continued repeated to repeat the penalties.
In summation: Our Special teams have sucked swamp water for quite a while now.
-
There's a reason Tabor survived 3 HC changes during his tenure in CLE since he was hired by Patsy IIRC... he's been considered one of the better ST Coaches in the league in his time here.
jrb nailed it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login