Josh Allen mechanics are very good.
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I have said that I think perhaps the Browns should do the RGIII/Cousins thing....and take a QB high and a QB in like round 4. So...I may be in favor of taking Allen......in round 4. (which may be where his actual overall rating should lie)
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I have said that I think perhaps the Browns should do the RGIII/Cousins thing....and take a QB high and a QB in like round 4. So...I may be in favor of taking Allen......in round 4. (which may be where his actual overall rating should lie)
I have said that I think perhaps the Browns should do the RGIII/Cousins thing....and take a QB high and a QB in like round 4. So...I may be in favor of taking Allen......in round 4. (which may be where his actual overall rating should lie)
LOL. ok. do you really think he falls out of round one? doesn't go in the top ten?
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What I wish we could know...but obviously we cannot, is what the Browns FO has done in terms of eliminating people.
E.g.....take my above post. If Allen, and Mayfield are consistently bad in these workouts, it would be nice to know if the Brows FO has simply done this:
Josh AllenBaker MayfieldAnd, it would be nice to know if they still have perhaps a board like this:
Darnold
Rosen
Rudolph
Jackson
etc.
What I wish we could know...but obviously we cannot, is what the Browns FO has done in terms of eliminating people.
E.g.....take my above post. If Allen, and Mayfield are consistently bad in these workouts, it would be nice to know if the Brows FO has simply done this:
Josh AllenBaker MayfieldAnd, it would be nice to know if they still have perhaps a board like this:
Darnold
Rosen
Rudolph
Jackson
etc.
I'm betting they have already done that and are targeting a young vet QB that can actually play the position for the next 3-5yrs...... The Browns may have lines through most of the names you have listed.
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I have said that I think perhaps the Browns should do the RGIII/Cousins thing....and take a QB high and a QB in like round 4. So...I may be in favor of taking Allen......in round 4. (which may be where his actual overall rating should lie)
LOL. ok. do you really think he falls out of round one? doesn't go in the top ten?
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No...he was lousy against decent competition in college and very very average against a weak Mountain West conference.
Allen ranked 83rd nationally in completion percentage in 2017, at just 56.3 percent. His pass efficiency rating ranked 73rd. In 2016, his only previous season of appreciable playing time, he completed 56 percent of his throws.
Then there are his numbers in Wyoming’s games against opponents from Power Five conferences. Facing Iowa and Oregon in 2017 and Nebraska in ’16, Allen was 48 of 96 for 427 yards, with one touchdown and eight interceptions. Disastrous numbers.
He's a project at best.
I get it - those were tough games. Wyoming vs IOWA? NEBRASKA? OREGON? his offense didn't have a chance.
OTH, there is Carson Wentz;
8/29/2015 @ Mont 16 28 198 57.1 2 0 44 13 70 5.4 2 19 0 0 - 0 -
9/12/2015 Web 19 29 281 65.5 3 0 55 7 45 6.4 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
9/19/2015 NorDak 18 27 262 66.7 4 0 38 10 -9 -0.9 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
10/3/2015 @ SDkSt 19 27 183 70.4 1 0 30 7 54 7.7 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
10/10/2015 NoIa 26 40 335 65.0 4 2 42 12 47 3.9 0 9 0 0 - 0 -
10/17/2015 SouDak 16 28 195 57.1 2 0 37 5 8 1.6 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
1/9/2016 JacSt 16 29 197 55.2 1 2 32 9 79 8.8 2 29 0 0 - 0 -So, there is Carson Wentz only passing for 57.1% vs Montana. Only 57.1 % vs South Dakota. And egad, only 55.2 % against...Jacksonville State? That is 48 of 85 for 590 yards, 5 TD's.
That is three of his worst games, vs far, far less competition than Nebrask, Iowa, and Oregon. That is with a wr picked in the third round of the NFL draft, a rb picked in the fourth round. I'm just saying it's far more complicated than a simple comparison of stats.
Against smalltime competition, three of those worst games ... Wentz's average was 56.4%. Wentz never had to play those three big teams Allen did. It's all relative - that's all I'm saying.
I get it - those were tough games. Wyoming vs IOWA? NEBRASKA? OREGON? his offense didn't have a chance.
OTH, there is Carson Wentz;
8/29/2015 @ Mont 16 28 198 57.1 2 0 44 13 70 5.4 2 19 0 0 - 0 -
9/12/2015 Web 19 29 281 65.5 3 0 55 7 45 6.4 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
9/19/2015 NorDak 18 27 262 66.7 4 0 38 10 -9 -0.9 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
10/3/2015 @ SDkSt 19 27 183 70.4 1 0 30 7 54 7.7 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
10/10/2015 NoIa 26 40 335 65.0 4 2 42 12 47 3.9 0 9 0 0 - 0 -
10/17/2015 SouDak 16 28 195 57.1 2 0 37 5 8 1.6 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
1/9/2016 JacSt 16 29 197 55.2 1 2 32 9 79 8.8 2 29 0 0 - 0 -So, there is Carson Wentz only passing for 57.1% vs Montana. Only 57.1 % vs South Dakota. And egad, only 55.2 % against...Jacksonville State? That is 48 of 85 for 590 yards, 5 TD's.
That is three of his worst games, vs far, far less competition than Nebrask, Iowa, and Oregon. That is with a wr picked in the third round of the NFL draft, a rb picked in the fourth round. I'm just saying it's far more complicated than a simple comparison of stats.
Against smalltime competition, three of those worst games ... Wentz's average was 56.4%. Wentz never had to play those three big teams Allen did. It's all relative - that's all I'm saying.
So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html
2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.
Take this guy:
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
Gipper, it's tough to accurately quote when you reply and put comments inside a post that you're replying to....
Usain Bolt QB? Nah- but we should give him a look at WR though.
That Allen played in a pro style offense will mean almost zilch to NFL talent evaluators. Mariotta sure as hell didn't. % a little low? Wake the hell up Cal- it's terrible, 70th something in college QBs? Some guys are so enamored of that ideal size and rocket arm- they just want to overlook he's inconsistent as hell. You watch those Allen highlights they were showing all day on NFLN, a lot of them were on rollouts from the pocket. Just keep overlooking the lowlights- I haven't been since his games at Wyoming, and I won't. I've already said if I had the mind, talent, and time I could put together a Deshone Kizer 2017 highlight reel that would make you think he's the second coming of John Elway.
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Every reputable report out there is that Allen is struggling with accuracy in simple scrimmage throws over and over again. As was noted, accuracy is something that rarely if ever gets better.
We literally sat through an entire season of a strong-armed, tall QB who never learned to throw the ball accurately. How anyone can want to do that again, yet alone with a high first round pick, is unbelievable.
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I get it - those were tough games. Wyoming vs IOWA? NEBRASKA? OREGON? his offense didn't have a chance.
OTH, there is Carson Wentz;
8/29/2015 @ Mont 16 28 198 57.1 2 0 44 13 70 5.4 2 19 0 0 - 0 -
9/12/2015 Web 19 29 281 65.5 3 0 55 7 45 6.4 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
9/19/2015 NorDak 18 27 262 66.7 4 0 38 10 -9 -0.9 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
10/3/2015 @ SDkSt 19 27 183 70.4 1 0 30 7 54 7.7 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
10/10/2015 NoIa 26 40 335 65.0 4 2 42 12 47 3.9 0 9 0 0 - 0 -
10/17/2015 SouDak 16 28 195 57.1 2 0 37 5 8 1.6 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
1/9/2016 JacSt 16 29 197 55.2 1 2 32 9 79 8.8 2 29 0 0 - 0 -So, there is Carson Wentz only passing for 57.1% vs Montana. Only 57.1 % vs South Dakota. And egad, only 55.2 % against...Jacksonville State? That is 48 of 85 for 590 yards, 5 TD's.
That is three of his worst games, vs far, far less competition than Nebrask, Iowa, and Oregon. That is with a wr picked in the third round of the NFL draft, a rb picked in the fourth round. I'm just saying it's far more complicated than a simple comparison of stats.
Against smalltime competition, three of those worst games ... Wentz's average was 56.4%. Wentz never had to play those three big teams Allen did. It's all relative - that's all I'm saying.
So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html
2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.
Take this guy:
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
Gipper, it's tough to accurately quote when you reply and put comments inside a post that you're replying to....
Usain Bolt QB? Nah- but we should give him a look at WR though.
That Allen played in a pro style offense will mean almost zilch to NFL talent evaluators. Mariotta sure as hell didn't. % a little low? Wake the hell up Cal- it's terrible, 70th something in college QBs? Some guys are so enamored of that ideal size and rocket arm- they just want to overlook he's inconsistent as hell. You watch those Allen highlights they were showing all day on NFLN, a lot of them were on rollouts from the pocket. Just keep overlooking the lowlights- I haven't been since his games at Wyoming, and I won't. I've already said if I had the mind, talent, and time I could put together a Deshone Kizer 2017 highlight reel that would make you think he's the second coming of John Elway.
So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html
a few you have cherry picked Allen's worst three games. See, that is where the hell I got the idea. Wentz never played the caliber of teams as the three cherrypicked earlier - those WERE Allen's worst games.
So, you are more interested in jumping in and bitch-knee jerking. Wake the hell up yourself.
And the athletic part comes in when a pro coach works with a qb to teach him to be more accurate. Allen's UPSIDE isElway-ish.
There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.
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So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html
a few you have cherry picked Allen's worst three games. See, that is where the hell I got the idea. Wentz never played the caliber of teams as the three cherrypicked earlier - those WERE Allen's worst games.
So, you are more interested in jumping in and bitch-knee jerking. Wake the hell up yourself.
And the athletic part comes in when a pro coach works with a qb to teach him to be more accurate. Allen's UPSIDE isElway-ish.
There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.
There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
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Every reputable report out there is that Allen is struggling with accuracy in simple scrimmage throws over and over again. As was noted, accuracy is something that rarely if ever gets better.
We literally sat through an entire season of a strong-armed, tall QB who never learned to throw the ball accurately. How anyone can want to do that again, yet alone with a high first round pick, is unbelievable.
Every reputable report out there is that Allen is struggling with accuracy in simple scrimmage throws over and over again. As was noted, accuracy is something that rarely if ever gets better.
We literally sat through an entire season of a strong-armed, tall QB who never learned to throw the ball accurately. How anyone can want to do that again, yet alone with a high first round pick, is unbelievable.
That is only partly true. The first two I read were saying he was throwing several throws very accurately. He isn't consistent in that regard. If he can correct that, you have a star NFL qb in the making.
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There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
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I get it - those were tough games. Wyoming vs IOWA? NEBRASKA? OREGON? his offense didn't have a chance.
OTH, there is Carson Wentz;
8/29/2015 @ Mont 16 28 198 57.1 2 0 44 13 70 5.4 2 19 0 0 - 0 -
9/12/2015 Web 19 29 281 65.5 3 0 55 7 45 6.4 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
9/19/2015 NorDak 18 27 262 66.7 4 0 38 10 -9 -0.9 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
10/3/2015 @ SDkSt 19 27 183 70.4 1 0 30 7 54 7.7 1 27 0 0 - 0 -
10/10/2015 NoIa 26 40 335 65.0 4 2 42 12 47 3.9 0 9 0 0 - 0 -
10/17/2015 SouDak 16 28 195 57.1 2 0 37 5 8 1.6 0 7 0 0 - 0 -
1/9/2016 JacSt 16 29 197 55.2 1 2 32 9 79 8.8 2 29 0 0 - 0 -So, there is Carson Wentz only passing for 57.1% vs Montana. Only 57.1 % vs South Dakota. And egad, only 55.2 % against...Jacksonville State? That is 48 of 85 for 590 yards, 5 TD's.
That is three of his worst games, vs far, far less competition than Nebrask, Iowa, and Oregon. That is with a wr picked in the third round of the NFL draft, a rb picked in the fourth round. I'm just saying it's far more complicated than a simple comparison of stats.
Against smalltime competition, three of those worst games ... Wentz's average was 56.4%. Wentz never had to play those three big teams Allen did. It's all relative - that's all I'm saying.
So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html
2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.
Take this guy:
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
Gipper, it's tough to accurately quote when you reply and put comments inside a post that you're replying to....
Usain Bolt QB? Nah- but we should give him a look at WR though.
That Allen played in a pro style offense will mean almost zilch to NFL talent evaluators. Mariotta sure as hell didn't. % a little low? Wake the hell up Cal- it's terrible, 70th something in college QBs? Some guys are so enamored of that ideal size and rocket arm- they just want to overlook he's inconsistent as hell. You watch those Allen highlights they were showing all day on NFLN, a lot of them were on rollouts from the pocket. Just keep overlooking the lowlights- I haven't been since his games at Wyoming, and I won't. I've already said if I had the mind, talent, and time I could put together a Deshone Kizer 2017 highlight reel that would make you think he's the second coming of John Elway.
So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html
Gipper, it's tough to accurately quote when you reply and put comments inside a post that you're replying to....
Well...I do that because I am making a specific reply to that particular specific point....just as I am doing here to your point.
Usain Bolt QB? Nah- but we should give him a look at WR though.
And also here.....trying to put a track guy into a WR role has been done...with mixed results. Bullet Bob Hayes became a HOF WR. Renaldo Neamiah...not so much. But the question about Hayes is: was he a track guy playing football....or a football guy playing track?
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Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Face it....every report out there is saying this guy is sucking swamp water. I am neither for or against Allen per se. I am against taking the next version of Brandon Weeden or DeShone Kizer...and from all reports...he seems to be that. Unfortunate....but apparently true.
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Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
In recent history, no...they don't get better. Inaccuracy in college translates to even more inaccuracy in the NFL. Look no further than Kizer last year.
Anyone but Allen.
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Jesus Christ, you’re scraping the bottom of the Shmucking barrel here aren’t you
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Jesus Christ, you’re scraping the bottom of the Shmucking barrel here aren’t you
Jesus Christ, you’re scraping the bottom of the Shmucking barrel here aren’t you
Explain.
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Josh Allen outshines Baker Mayfield in first Senior Bowl practice
Author: Mike KlisPublished: 7:48 AM MST January 24, 2018They had tackles and guards and safeties and linebackers.
And the Senior Bowl had two quarterbacks named Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.
In that order, by the way.
No one has been a bigger supporter of Baker Mayfield than I have. But then I watched Allen throw a howitzer to Penn State receiver DaeSean Hamilton on a deep out pattern Tuesday during the Senior Bowl North team practice at Ladd Peebles Stadium. Allen’s pass exploded out of his hand. It was one of those Andres Galarraga line drives where about halfway on its path, the ball rose to another level and hummed.
Hamilton was pretty well covered on the play, too. The cornerback had no chance.
And then on his next pass, Allen had Hamilton again on a crossing route. Overthrew by a couple yards.
“It went OK,’’ Allen told 9NEWS as he walked off the Ladd Peebles Stadium artificial surface following practice Tuesday. “Could have gone a little better but it was the first day. It’s definitely different, kind of difficult to process the speed of different receivers you’ve never thrown to before. We’ll be better tomorrow.’’
With John Elway and Dan Marino watching practice from the sideline Tuesday, Allen looked like the best quarterback from a Senior Bowl North team that also included Mayfield, Nebraska’s Tanner Lee and Washington State’s Luke Falk.
I talked to one NFL offensive coach who’s had decent success in the league and attended the Senior Bowl practices Tuesday. He said he’d take Allen ahead of Baker in the upcoming draft.
Go with the bigger guy, he said. He speaks for the majority of NFL talent evaluators.
Two of the top quarterbacks, Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen, weren’t eligible for the Senior Bowl because they entered the draft before their senior seasons. Allen may well be the Cleveland Browns No.1 overall pick, anyhow.
“It’s a tough situation to come in as a rookie and expect to be perfect right away,’’ Allen said earlier Tuesday during the Senior Bowl media session. “I know I have a lot of flaws as a quarterback.’’
He has an arm, he’s athletic, he’s big and he has a winning personality and smarts. His biggest flaw his accuracy. He was a two-year starter at Wyoming and completed only 56 percent of his passes each season.
“I’ve been working on that,’’ Allen said. “Obviously, 56 percent is not anywhere close where it needs to be. You can go and look at the tape and I’d say I’ve made a lot of strides from the previous season. I held the ball more, didn’t throw as many interceptions. I held on to the ball, threw the ball away more. Just more careful with the football. There’s always the constant battle with trying to perfect your game.That’s what I’m dealing with right now and making sure my stroke is consistent and clean.’’
He and Darnold are housemates this offseason, working with quarterbacks coach Jordan Palmer.
Allen was plenty accurate in the first quarter of the Potato Bowl last month, throwing three touchdown passes against Central Michigan with Elway and Matt Russell, the Broncos’ director of player personnel, attending the game specifically to scout him.
“It was really cool,’’ Allen said. “You try to not treat it as a distraction when you look over to the sideline and see a guy like John Elway, it’s hard to not get excited. I just went out there and played football with my guys. It was fun.’’
And then on his next pass, Allen had Hamilton again on a crossing route. Overthrew by a couple yards.
And there it is... the inconsistency. Mayock labelled it as the question Allen has to answer this week along with... leadership.... or at least the aspect around inspiring a team and drawing them to him.
On the former Mayock laid the blame literally at Allen's feet. I'm not sure it's that simple.
On the latter Savage and the organizing committee did Allen no favors by putting him in the same QB group with Mayfield, who players are likely to gravitate towards.
Overall I thought Mayfield was actually impressive. In part due to the fact that he showed up in Mobile an hour before the North took the field. He did not have the benefit of a day of classroom prep the other QBs had... and it did not show. The Bronco staff had emailed Baker the playbook and he'd clearly studied and absorbed it before he arrived.
Otherwise on the field Mayfield did start slow. I thought Mayock summed it up well in saying that at the outset it seemed he was trying to match Allen's velocity. Then Baker settled down, played his game and separated himself from every other QB on Day One.
That's how I saw it as well.
But today is Day Two... we shall see.
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If Allen is more of a project, etc, so be it. The Browns will know. If Allen doesn't do well in the senior bowl, that's going to clinch it.
But if the lights go on on his accuracy in the next few days and the game, then the choice will be agonizing for some.
I don't see Mayfield's red flags to be a big deal...necessarily - don't seem to be a trend in his life. He is a playmaker. and comparing him to jm, is just really bogus.
Mayfield certain has enough arm, and bigtime love for the game, leadership, etc. This draft is going to be crazy.
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I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.
Take this guy:
"
Weaknesses
Benefits from an offense that is predicated on simplified reads. Offense able to create wide-open receivers after busted coverages at times. Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power. Tends to "see" pass rush too often. Will drop eyes and look to escape pocket rather than stepping to available pocket space. Frequent trips outside pocket increase opportunity for injury. Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking. Didn't have to throw to tight windows often. Average processor on field. Still learning when to get rid of the ball and move to next play. Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read. Missed obvious pre-snap blitzes. Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL. Fumbled 27 times during his career. "
How high should that qb go in the draft? Sounds less a qb than Allen? His top wr, Josh Huff was drafted in the third round by the Eagles. His rb was drafted in the fourth round. He had a conference star center...quite a good cast around him. His accuracy was 61 % overall regular season, 60.x % in playoffs in college.
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
Accuracy is not a "skill". It's an output of a combination of skills.
a few you have cherry picked Allen's worst three games. See, that is where the hell I got the idea.
Nice try... except that pulling his stats vs. Power 5 schools is not "cherry-picking"... it's a natural subset.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Just say no to another inaccurate QB.
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Take this guy:
"
Weaknesses
Benefits from an offense that is predicated on simplified reads. Offense able to create wide-open receivers after busted coverages at times. Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power. Tends to "see" pass rush too often. Will drop eyes and look to escape pocket rather than stepping to available pocket space. Frequent trips outside pocket increase opportunity for injury. Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking. Didn't have to throw to tight windows often. Average processor on field. Still learning when to get rid of the ball and move to next play. Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read. Missed obvious pre-snap blitzes. Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL. Fumbled 27 times during his career. "
How high should that qb go in the draft? Sounds less a qb than Allen? His top wr, Josh Huff was drafted in the third round by the Eagles. His rb was drafted in the fourth round. He had a conference star center...quite a good cast around him. His accuracy was 61 % overall regular season, 60.x % in playoffs in college.
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop
Cal, don't let media reports or hype tapes cover your own eyes. Many read Allen comes from a pro style under center school with the same Wentz Body. Yes Josh has a cannon, but continue watching Allen's delivery..nothing has changed, His feet, hips & eyes are a mess in his delivery. Messing with his release point thinking his "gun speed" can catch-it-up. Count how many of Josh's misses go HIGH, or over thrown on touch passes.. Elway could hire John Denver to sing Rocky Mountain High,Than Styx for some "Come Sail Away with me" at halftime..long way till draft day remain, but short days of real football remain..At #1 or #4 Dorsey's grabbing a QB..I gave it a re-try.. but at this point am passing the hype train of Josh Allen growing into a large downhill snowball by Combine..
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