Blowing up the QB rankings
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Nobody saw Vick because Lamar doesn't have 4.38 speed with freak lateral agility and a 10/20 yard split like a WR. Mike is easily the closest thing you've ever seen to a multi-position skill player that just so happened to play QB. While doing so mostly under center.
I didn't see Vick because Lamar is nothing like him minus being black.
Nobody saw Vick because Lamar doesn't have 4.38 speed with freak lateral agility and a 10/20 yard split like a WR. Mike is easily the closest thing you've ever seen to a multi-position skill player that just so happened to play QB. While doing so mostly under center.
I didn't see Vick because Lamar is nothing like him minus being black.
You must be watching the wrong player. Lamar may not time as well in the 40 but he is a better athlete on the field... and it's not even close really.
You didn't get it. I made this "bet" because I can't lose. If he were to be picked 1, it would be a tie.
He certainly was exciting to watch. But I have a feeling you have a little bit of bias with Louisville in your name. Nothing wrong with that
I spent the last 2 season thinking that Lamar was just a great college player that didn't translate to the pros. Then I went back and watched how he grew and I believe he can do the same stuff in the NFL. Up until last week I was firmly in camp Darnold. I do my best to eliminate bias and focus on who's going to be the best player for the browns.
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Nobody saw Vick because Lamar doesn't have 4.38 speed with freak lateral agility and a 10/20 yard split like a WR. Mike is easily the closest thing you've ever seen to a multi-position skill player that just so happened to play QB. While doing so mostly under center.
I didn't see Vick because Lamar is nothing like him minus being black.
You must be watching the wrong player. Lamar may not time as well in the 40 but he is a better athlete on the field... and it's not even close really.
You didn't get it. I made this "bet" because I can't lose. If he were to be picked 1, it would be a tie.
He certainly was exciting to watch. But I have a feeling you have a little bit of bias with Louisville in your name. Nothing wrong with that
I spent the last 2 season thinking that Lamar was just a great college player that didn't translate to the pros. Then I went back and watched how he grew and I believe he can do the same stuff in the NFL. Up until last week I was firmly in camp Darnold. I do my best to eliminate bias and focus on who's going to be the best player for the browns.
You must be watching the wrong player. Lamar may not time as well in the 40 but he is a better athlete on the field... and it's not even close really.
This makes zero Shmucking sense. Lamar won't time better in anything. 40, 10, 20, shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump and probably vert. Mike was that rare and that gifted. So what does "on the field" even mean?
But out of pure curiousity, where would you draft Lamar if you were Dorsey?!
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Isn't EVERY ranking and mock draft based on future potential?
And I am right in saying that basically EVERY publication fails to follow its draft prospect rankings in their Mock drafts. Because they are generally done by different writers employed by the same company.
HELL.....even when the Mocks and the rankings are done by the same writer......they don't follow their own rankings. Look at any Kiper or McShay ranking....then look at their mocks. Nothing alike!
I generally think that they go by the position ranking though (aside from AN, SOMETIMES). So even if the Nelson kid is rated as the top player on the big board, they don't have him going #1.
Unless I am mistaken, which is certainly possible, the mock drafts try to predict what a team is going to do and needs. So while you may have Darnold as 1, and someone else has Rosen as 1, and Slugger has Jackson as 1, Kiper may think the Browns will take Allen or Mayfield. People may think these guys are idiots, and they may be, but a lot of it is for entertainment purposes, and while possible idiots, they have A LOT of access to the teams
I generally think that they go by the position ranking though (aside from AN, SOMETIMES). So even if the Nelson kid is rated as the top player on the big board, they don't have him going #1.
Unless I am mistaken, which is certainly possible, the mock drafts try to predict what a team is going to do and needs. So while you may have Darnold as 1, and someone else has Rosen as 1, and Slugger has Jackson as 1, Kiper may think the Browns will take Allen or Mayfield. People may think these guys are idiots, and they may be, but a lot of it is for entertainment purposes, and while possible idiots, they have A LOT of access to the teams
Yes, precisely. A mock is merely an attempt to predict what teams will do.
As you said....an OG...Quentin Nelson...may be the highest ranked player out there....but when was the last time an OG was ever taken #1 overall? (don't try to think about it because the answer is : Never).
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Isn't EVERY ranking and mock draft based on future potential?
And I am right in saying that basically EVERY publication fails to follow its draft prospect rankings in their Mock drafts. Because they are generally done by different writers employed by the same company.
HELL.....even when the Mocks and the rankings are done by the same writer......they don't follow their own rankings. Look at any Kiper or McShay ranking....then look at their mocks. Nothing alike!
The one I referred to Gip ranking\ mock was done by the same guy. Charlie Campbell- Walter Football, sorry- wrong on that count. Sure, the reason rankings\ mocks get screwed up and skewed is to a large part the mocks go out the window on rankings because of the huge premium for Quarterbacks for teams that don't have them. Jeremiah has Darnold and Rosen ranked #6 & #7, but I wouldn't bet against them going 1-2 in the draft.
& please, will you kindly admit that the CBS ranking of Randolph as the #1 QB prospect is an outlier? Sure, some rankings go seriously wrong- but most of the time, they're at least close to how the draft position actually falls. That doesn't mean a guy ranked & drafted low can't succeed. Hindsight is always 20\20- you can bet that 2007 the rankings and draft order there would have been a lot different. A lot of those rankings go on measurables and college production. Why IMHO Allen is ranked so high- he can throw the ball out of the stadium. I'll trust Jeremiah- who actually worked in an NFL teams scouting department- where Mason isn't even in his top 50 prospects, over some guy at CBS with a keyboard and Internet access.
The one I referred to Gip ranking\ mock was done by the same guy. Charlie Campbell- Walter Football, sorry- wrong on that count. Sure, the reason rankings\ mocks get screwed up and skewed is to a large part the mocks go out the window on rankings because of the huge premium for Quarterbacks for teams that don't have them. Jeremiah has Darnold and Rosen ranked #6 & #7, but I wouldn't bet against them going 1-2 in the draft.
& please, will you kindly admit that the CBS ranking of Randolph as the #1 QB prospect is an outlier? Sure, some rankings go seriously wrong- but most of the time, they're at least close to how the draft position actually falls. That doesn't mean a guy ranked & drafted low can't succeed. Hindsight is always 20\20- you can bet that 2007 the rankings and draft order there would have been a lot different. A lot of those rankings go on measurables and college production. Why IMHO Allen is ranked so high- he can throw the ball out of the stadium. I'll trust Jeremiah- who actually worked in an NFL teams scouting department- where Mason isn't even in his top 50 prospects, over some guy at CBS with a keyboard and Internet access.
Outlier? Sure...in that it does not comport with most other draft rankings that don't have him ranked as high.
But...it may not be an outlier in terms of actual skill and capability in comparison to others who are also under consideration. As noted somewhere else....on a pure statistical basis, of like the Top 10 QB prospects, only Mayfield had better stats.....for what that is worth (yes...Big 12 red flag). See my post on 2012. Not sure if that was in this thread or in another.
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You must be watching the wrong player. Lamar may not time as well in the 40 but he is a better athlete on the field... and it's not even close really.
This makes zero Shmucking sense. Lamar won't time better in anything. 40, 10, 20, shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump and probably vert. Mike was that rare and that gifted. So what does "on the field" even mean?
But out of pure curiousity, where would you draft Lamar if you were Dorsey?!
This makes zero Shmucking sense. Lamar won't time better in anything. 40, 10, 20, shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump and probably vert. Mike was that rare and that gifted. So what does "on the field" even mean?
But out of pure curiousity, where would you draft Lamar if you were Dorsey?!
Lamar is bigger, stronger, and has better agility. Vick ran a 4.38 I would look for Lamar to run in the low 4.4s. You talk about being this super scout and you don't know the differece between combine speed and football speed?
I've got Lamar rated as the top QB so I'm taking him #1 overall. I see him jumping up the boards soon so you can get on the band wagon too, once the ESPN guys tell you it's ok.
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This makes zero Shmucking sense. Lamar won't time better in anything. 40, 10, 20, shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump and probably vert. Mike was that rare and that gifted. So what does "on the field" even mean?
But out of pure curiousity, where would you draft Lamar if you were Dorsey?!
Lamar is bigger, stronger, and has better agility. Vick ran a 4.38 I would look for Lamar to run in the low 4.4s. You talk about being this super scout and you don't know the differece between combine speed and football speed?
I've got Lamar rated as the top QB so I'm taking him #1 overall. I see him jumping up the boards soon so you can get on the band wagon too, once the ESPN guys tell you it's ok.
Lamar is bigger, stronger, and has better agility. Vick ran a 4.38 I would look for Lamar to run in the low 4.4s. You talk about being this super scout and you don't know the differece between combine speed and football speed?
I've got Lamar rated as the top QB so I'm taking him #1 overall. I see him jumping up the boards soon so you can get on the band wagon too, once the ESPN guys tell you it's ok.
Lamar is taller, but couldn't take an angle to get away from Bradley Chubb... again, no where near the acceleration and lateral cutting but we'll (you) have a better grasp of that this time next year.
Also, please don't go into some mythological lecture on scouting then combine vs football speed. Especially in relation to being a runner. Perhaps if you meant football speed as a defender diagnosing keys and then attacking you'd have a point.
That said, I get to the fun part of my bait. You yourself said Rosen is the most polished QB in this draft... yet have him ranked 4th personally. You refuse to take any friendly bet on Lamar's career, yet rank him 1st overall and would select him 1st which is a spot reserved for franchise level projected pro-bowl/all pro talent that only comes around every so often.
Yet you yourself said you're 'not sold' on Lamar, hence your push for Cousins... oh and that you wouldn't bet on any of these QB's including Jackson.
BUT - you still want us to use the #1 overall and you yourself would despite being convinced, by your own admission, you're not sold on Lamar.
You'd take someone.....1st overall.... that you're not sold on.
Say that last bit real slow for me so it sinks in.
Oh and don't ever insult me again by saying I'm waiting for ESPN mouth pieces to do my thinking for me. 75% of the time I disagree with almost all they say.
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I've also said I don't see a generational talent in this draft. Lamar and Barkley could be but there are some concerns. I would take Lamar #1 because I would hope our staff knows how to use him. If they try to run an offense designed for Rothlisberger or Dalton instead of putting him in position to get the most out of his ability he will likely bust.
That one play where Chubb catches him from behind Lamar went back 3 yards and Chubb went straight down the line and barely touched his shoe strings. It's not like Chubb ran him down. I'm not taking anything away from Vick but Lamar consistently shook multiple defenders with lateral jukes. He spun out of countless tackles. He takes 1 step and he's at full speed. He's a better runner than Vick he just maybe a step behind on top end speed.0a
Rosen is the most polished QB but he has some injury concerns. I don't like the idea of drafting Sam Bradford. It's not about his ability it's about his durability.
Combine results don't mean anything when on the field. Just look at Jarvis Landry, Jerry Rice, Jameis Winston, and anquan Bolden. They all are far more athletic than their combine numbers would have you believe.
Cousins is a proven commodity and will allow us to use that #1 on a safer pick like Bradley Chubb.
Lighten up Tiamat. It was a lighthearted joke. If I knew it would wreck your world I would have changed my name to Nibiru.
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I've also said I don't see a generational talent in this draft. Lamar and Barkley could be but there are some concerns. I would take Lamar #1 because I would hope our staff knows how to use him. If they try to run an offense designed for Rothlisberger or Dalton instead of putting him in position to get the most out of his ability he will likely bust.
That one play where Chubb catches him from behind Lamar went back 3 yards and Chubb went straight down the line and barely touched his shoe strings. It's not like Chubb ran him down. I'm not taking anything away from Vick but Lamar consistently shook multiple defenders with lateral jukes. He spun out of countless tackles. He takes 1 step and he's at full speed. He's a better runner than Vick he just maybe a step behind on top end speed.0a
Rosen is the most polished QB but he has some injury concerns. I don't like the idea of drafting Sam Bradford. It's not about his ability it's about his durability.
Combine results don't mean anything when on the field. Just look at Jarvis Landry, Jerry Rice, Jameis Winston, and anquan Bolden. They all are far more athletic than their combine numbers would have you believe.
Cousins is a proven commodity and will allow us to use that #1 on a safer pick like Bradley Chubb.
Lighten up Tiamat. It was a lighthearted joke. If I knew it would wreck your world I would have changed my name to Nibiru.
I've also said I don't see a generational talent in this draft. Lamar and Barkley could be but there are some concerns. I would take Lamar #1 because I would hope our staff knows how to use him. If they try to run an offense designed for Rothlisberger or Dalton instead of putting him in position to get the most out of his ability he will likely bust.
That one play where Chubb catches him from behind Lamar went back 3 yards and Chubb went straight down the line and barely touched his shoe strings. It's not like Chubb ran him down. I'm not taking anything away from Vick but Lamar consistently shook multiple defenders with lateral jukes. He spun out of countless tackles. He takes 1 step and he's at full speed. He's a better runner than Vick he just maybe a step behind on top end speed.0a
Rosen is the most polished QB but he has some injury concerns. I don't like the idea of drafting Sam Bradford. It's not about his ability it's about his durability.
Combine results don't mean anything when on the field. Just look at Jarvis Landry, Jerry Rice, Jameis Winston, and anquan Bolden. They all are far more athletic than their combine numbers would have you believe.
Cousins is a proven commodity and will allow us to use that #1 on a safer pick like Bradley Chubb.
Lighten up Tiamat. It was a lighthearted joke. If I knew it would wreck your world I would have changed my name to Nibiru.
I'm posting on a message board over something constructed out of 1's and 0's about a team I both love and hate on topics I'll never be able to influence them on. Don't believe for a moment I take this 'THAT' seriously.
Also you don't take anyone #1 overall when you have "concerns". That's the summary here. A summary in which we disagree completely and that's fine. Good day, sir.
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Name a QB that doesn't have concerns? One of these guys is going #1
Rosen- injury concerns/character
Darnold- turnovers/ looks timid in the pocket
Mayfield- size/arm/character
Jackson- accuracy/ footwork
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I've also said I don't see a generational talent in this draft. Lamar and Barkley could be but there are some concerns. I would take Lamar #1 because I would hope our staff knows how to use him. If they try to run an offense designed for Rothlisberger or Dalton instead of putting him in position to get the most out of his ability he will likely bust.
That one play where Chubb catches him from behind Lamar went back 3 yards and Chubb went straight down the line and barely touched his shoe strings. It's not like Chubb ran him down. I'm not taking anything away from Vick but Lamar consistently shook multiple defenders with lateral jukes. He spun out of countless tackles. He takes 1 step and he's at full speed. He's a better runner than Vick he just maybe a step behind on top end speed.0a
Rosen is the most polished QB but he has some injury concerns. I don't like the idea of drafting Sam Bradford. It's not about his ability it's about his durability.
Combine results don't mean anything when on the field. Just look at Jarvis Landry, Jerry Rice, Jameis Winston, and anquan Bolden. They all are far more athletic than their combine numbers would have you believe.
Cousins is a proven commodity and will allow us to use that #1 on a safer pick like Bradley Chubb.
Lighten up Tiamat. It was a lighthearted joke. If I knew it would wreck your world I would have changed my name to Nibiru.
I've also said I don't see a generational talent in this draft. Lamar and Barkley could be but there are some concerns. I would take Lamar #1 because I would hope our staff knows how to use him. If they try to run an offense designed for Rothlisberger or Dalton instead of putting him in position to get the most out of his ability he will likely bust.
1) That one play where Chubb catches him from behind Lamar went back 3 yards and Chubb went straight down the line and barely touched his shoe strings. It's not like Chubb ran him down. I'm not taking anything away from Vick but Lamar consistently shook multiple defenders with lateral jukes. He spun out of countless tackles. He takes 1 step and he's at full speed. He's a better runner than Vick he just maybe a step behind on top end speed.0a
2) Rosen is the most polished QB but he has some injury concerns. I don't like the idea of drafting Sam Bradford. It's not about his ability it's about his durability.
3) Combine results don't mean anything when on the field. Just look at Jarvis Landry, Jerry Rice, Jameis Winston, and anquan Bolden. They all are far more athletic than their combine numbers would have you believe.
4) Cousins is a proven commodity and will allow us to use that #1 on a safer pick like Bradley Chubb.
5) Lighten up Tiamat. It was a lighthearted joke. If I knew it would wreck your world I would have changed my name to Nibiru.
1) Already said it once LS, if Lamar tries to be a running qb in the NFL- he's going to get killed in short order. He will be evaluated on his passing ability, not his running ability. Carson Wentz is 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier than Jackson and had his season ended with a blown out knee. Only example? Hardly- Runnin' RG III is out of football after multiple injuries toting the rock. FWIW, that's a mighty good comparison to Lamar- almost the same height and weight, Griffin ran a 4.4 at the combine, and had accuracy issues.
2) I'll ditto you on Rosen, I have the same injury concerns. It's why I don't have at the top of my QB ratings. And for the record, Bradford will presumably be a FA this spring- we won't have to trade for him if we're interested.
3) Sometimes combine numbers don't translate to the football field- either high or low. Steve Largent and Ray Lewis were supposedly "too slow". OTOH, Vernon Gholston was a workout wonder at the combine 4.7 40, and 37 reps- and totally busted in the NFL.
4) I've already said it a couple of times. From reports I've gotten from hard core Redskinns fans- Cousins isn't going to be worth anywhere close to the money he's going to get in free agency. Probably going to a team that can "win now". That isn't the Browns. We take our QB #1, one of Chubb, Barkley, or Fitzpatrick will be there for us at #4.
5) If you like Lamar, that's fine. At least you're rational about it. Just good natured bantering back and forth- as it should be.
Unlike someone we know who can't get his head out of Barkley's butt.
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I've also said I don't see a generational talent in this draft. Lamar and Barkley could be but there are some concerns. I would take Lamar #1 because I would hope our staff knows how to use him. If they try to run an offense designed for Rothlisberger or Dalton instead of putting him in position to get the most out of his ability he will likely bust.
1) That one play where Chubb catches him from behind Lamar went back 3 yards and Chubb went straight down the line and barely touched his shoe strings. It's not like Chubb ran him down. I'm not taking anything away from Vick but Lamar consistently shook multiple defenders with lateral jukes. He spun out of countless tackles. He takes 1 step and he's at full speed. He's a better runner than Vick he just maybe a step behind on top end speed.0a
2) Rosen is the most polished QB but he has some injury concerns. I don't like the idea of drafting Sam Bradford. It's not about his ability it's about his durability.
3) Combine results don't mean anything when on the field. Just look at Jarvis Landry, Jerry Rice, Jameis Winston, and anquan Bolden. They all are far more athletic than their combine numbers would have you believe.
4) Cousins is a proven commodity and will allow us to use that #1 on a safer pick like Bradley Chubb.
5) Lighten up Tiamat. It was a lighthearted joke. If I knew it would wreck your world I would have changed my name to Nibiru.
1) Already said it once LS, if Lamar tries to be a running qb in the NFL- he's going to get killed in short order. He will be evaluated on his passing ability, not his running ability. Carson Wentz is 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier than Jackson and had his season ended with a blown out knee. Only example? Hardly- Runnin' RG III is out of football after multiple injuries toting the rock. FWIW, that's a mighty good comparison to Lamar- almost the same height and weight, Griffin ran a 4.4 at the combine, and had accuracy issues.
2) I'll ditto you on Rosen, I have the same injury concerns. It's why I don't have at the top of my QB ratings. And for the record, Bradford will presumably be a FA this spring- we won't have to trade for him if we're interested.
3) Sometimes combine numbers don't translate to the football field- either high or low. Steve Largent and Ray Lewis were supposedly "too slow". OTOH, Vernon Gholston was a workout wonder at the combine 4.7 40, and 37 reps- and totally busted in the NFL.
4) I've already said it a couple of times. From reports I've gotten from hard core Redskinns fans- Cousins isn't going to be worth anywhere close to the money he's going to get in free agency. Probably going to a team that can "win now". That isn't the Browns. We take our QB #1, one of Chubb, Barkley, or Fitzpatrick will be there for us at #4.
5) If you like Lamar, that's fine. At least you're rational about it. Just good natured bantering back and forth- as it should be.
Unlike someone we know who can't get his head out of Barkley's butt.
1) Already said it once LS, if Lamar tries to be a running qb in the NFL- he's going to get killed in short order. Carson Wentz is 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier than Jackson and had his season ended with a blown out knee. Only example? Hardly- Runnin' RG III is out of football after multiple injuries toting the rock. FWIW, that's a mighty good comparison to Lamar- almost the same height and weight, Griffin ran a 4.4 at the combine, and had accuracy issues.
2) I'll ditto you on Rosen, I have the same injury concerns. It's why I don't have at the top of my QB ratings. And for the record, Bradford will presumably be a FA this spring- we won't have to trade for him if we're interested.
3) Sometimes combine numbers don't translate to the football field- either high or low. Steve Largent and Ray Lewis were supposedly "too slow". OTOH, Vernon Gholston was a workout wonder at the combine 4.7 40, and 37 reps- and totally busted in the NFL.
4) I've already said it a couple of times. From reports I've gotten from hard core Redskinns fans- Cousins isn't going to be worth anywhere close to the money he's going to get in free agency. Probably going to a team that can "win now". That isn't the Browns. We take our QB #1, one of Chubb, Barkley, or Fitzpatrick will be there for us at #4.
5) If you like Lamar, that's fine. At least you're rational about it. Just good natured bantering back and forth- as it should be.
Unlike someone we know who can't get his head out of Barkley's butt.
1. Sure Jackson isn't superman he has the chance to get hurt, but he has shown durability. He's got grit. Russell Wilson runs alot and rarely get hurt so it's not impossible. He does have RG3 size but he also ran an offense that has some pro stuff in it. Petrino usually runs more of a pro style but he adapter to Jackson skill set.
2. I want no part of Bradford either. Nothing worse than a player with paper skin and Styrofoam bones.
3. Exactly
4. I wouldn't care if Cousins could only get us to 8-8 the whole time he is here. That money would be well worth it. How much is turning a franchise around worth?
5. Lamar became my guy after comparing him to the field. I think his flaws as a passer are no worse than the other QBs outside of Mayfield. By draft time I may move to Mayfield or Darnold camp there is alot of time to change my mind.
That Barkley fan is ridiculous. There is no denying Barkley is an incredible athlete, but this is such an impressive class of RBs it would be hard to justify taking him too high. I think Penny, Guice, Chubb, Jones, and Michel all have starter potential. Rashaad Penny being my favorite in the entire draft.
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1) Already said it once LS, if Lamar tries to be a running qb in the NFL- he's going to get killed in short order. Carson Wentz is 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier than Jackson and had his season ended with a blown out knee. Only example? Hardly- Runnin' RG III is out of football after multiple injuries toting the rock. FWIW, that's a mighty good comparison to Lamar- almost the same height and weight, Griffin ran a 4.4 at the combine, and had accuracy issues.
2) I'll ditto you on Rosen, I have the same injury concerns. It's why I don't have at the top of my QB ratings. And for the record, Bradford will presumably be a FA this spring- we won't have to trade for him if we're interested.
3) Sometimes combine numbers don't translate to the football field- either high or low. Steve Largent and Ray Lewis were supposedly "too slow". OTOH, Vernon Gholston was a workout wonder at the combine 4.7 40, and 37 reps- and totally busted in the NFL.
4) I've already said it a couple of times. From reports I've gotten from hard core Redskinns fans- Cousins isn't going to be worth anywhere close to the money he's going to get in free agency. Probably going to a team that can "win now". That isn't the Browns. We take our QB #1, one of Chubb, Barkley, or Fitzpatrick will be there for us at #4.
5) If you like Lamar, that's fine. At least you're rational about it. Just good natured bantering back and forth- as it should be.
Unlike someone we know who can't get his head out of Barkley's butt.
1. Sure Jackson isn't superman he has the chance to get hurt, but he has shown durability. He's got grit. Russell Wilson runs alot and rarely get hurt so it's not impossible. He does have RG3 size but he also ran an offense that has some pro stuff in it. Petrino usually runs more of a pro style but he adapter to Jackson skill set.
2. I want no part of Bradford either. Nothing worse than a player with paper skin and Styrofoam bones.
3. Exactly
4. I wouldn't care if Cousins could only get us to 8-8 the whole time he is here. That money would be well worth it. How much is turning a franchise around worth?
5. Lamar became my guy after comparing him to the field. I think his flaws as a passer are no worse than the other QBs outside of Mayfield. By draft time I may move to Mayfield or Darnold camp there is alot of time to change my mind.
That Barkley fan is ridiculous. There is no denying Barkley is an incredible athlete, but this is such an impressive class of RBs it would be hard to justify taking him too high. I think Penny, Guice, Chubb, Jones, and Michel all have starter potential. Rashaad Penny being my favorite in the entire draft.
4. I wouldn't care if Cousins could only get us to 8-8 the whole time he is here. That money would be well worth it. How much is turning a franchise around worth?
5. Lamar became my guy after comparing him to the field. I think his flaws as a passer are no worse than the other QBs outside of Mayfield. By draft time I may move to Mayfield or Darnold camp there is alot of time to change my mind.
6) That Barkley fan is ridiculous. There is no denying Barkley is an incredible athlete, but this is such an impressive class of RBs it would be hard to justify taking him too high. I think Penny, Guice, Chubb, Jones, and Michel all have starter potential. Rashaad Penny being my favorite in the entire draft.
4) I (and 90% of all Browns fans) would care if the Best Cousins could do is 8-8. Sure, we've been in the sewer for so long, 8-8 is improvement. But you hand a guy a $150 million contract, it's playoffs or bust- if not Super Bowl.
5) I agree, it's early to lock in on a favorite. Right now, I have Mayfield\Darnold 1-2,but I could be swayed between now and April. FWIW, I have Jackson as my #5 pick, behind Josh Allen.
6) The only and I mean the only way you draft Barkley #1 overall is if you think he's going to be Jim Brown good, and maybe not even then. As I've told Po a bunch of times Brown, Payton, and Sanders have 2 championships between the three of them, the Lions never even made the Super Bowl with Barry. Payton's is as much due to the all-star defense the Bears had that year.
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Name a QB that doesn't have concerns? One of these guys is going #1
Rosen- injury concerns/character
Darnold- turnovers/ looks timid in the pocket
Mayfield- size/arm/character
Jackson- accuracy/ footwork
Name a QB that doesn't have concerns? One of these guys is going #1
Rosen- injury concerns/character
Darnold- turnovers/ looks timid in the pocket
Mayfield- size/arm/character
Jackson- accuracy/ footwork
Agree...have been saying it all along....this may NOT be 1983 or 2004.......it could be like 2011: Ponder, Locker, Gabbert etc. etc. etc. Or 2001 I believe: David Carr...Joey Harrington. Or 1999: 1 good one, 1 average one....3 likely busts.
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4. I wouldn't care if Cousins could only get us to 8-8 the whole time he is here. That money would be well worth it. How much is turning a franchise around worth?
5. Lamar became my guy after comparing him to the field. I think his flaws as a passer are no worse than the other QBs outside of Mayfield. By draft time I may move to Mayfield or Darnold camp there is alot of time to change my mind.
6) That Barkley fan is ridiculous. There is no denying Barkley is an incredible athlete, but this is such an impressive class of RBs it would be hard to justify taking him too high. I think Penny, Guice, Chubb, Jones, and Michel all have starter potential. Rashaad Penny being my favorite in the entire draft.
4) I (and 90% of all Browns fans) would care if the Best Cousins could do is 8-8. Sure, we've been in the sewer for so long, 8-8 is improvement. But you hand a guy a $150 million contract, it's playoffs or bust- if not Super Bowl.
5) I agree, it's early to lock in on a favorite. Right now, I have Mayfield\Darnold 1-2,but I could be swayed between now and April. FWIW, I have Jackson as my #5 pick, behind Josh Allen.
6) The only and I mean the only way you draft Barkley #1 overall is if you think he's going to be Jim Brown good, and maybe not even then. As I've told Po a bunch of times Brown, Payton, and Sanders have 2 championships between the three of them, the Lions never even made the Super Bowl with Barry. Payton's is as much due to the all-star defense the Bears had that year.
4) I (and 90% of all Browns fans) would care if the Best Cousins could do is 8-8. Sure, we've been in the sewer for so long, 8-8 is improvement. But you hand a guy a $150 million contract, it's playoffs or bust- if not Super Bowl.
5) I agree, it's early to lock in on a favorite. Right now, I have Mayfield\Darnold 1-2,but I could be swayed between now and April. FWIW, I have Jackson as my #5 pick, behind Josh Allen.
6) The only and I mean the only way you draft Barkley #1 overall is if you think he's going to be Jim Brown good, and maybe not even then. As I've told Po a bunch of times Brown, Payton, and Sanders have 2 championships between the three of them, the Lions never even made the Super Bowl with Barry. Payton's is as much due to the all-star defense the Bears had that year.
Here is my problem with that logic. You take that 30 mil and you spend it else where. What's more likely, Cousins gets you 8 wins or another QB with a few more FAs? Let' do it this way
Cousins + the top player in the draft + some lesser FAs
Or
Rookie QB + Jarvis Landry + Leveon Bell
Even if I give you the top 2 offensive FAs do you think that gives us a better chance to win games? I don't think it impossible we can strike gold on one of the rookies, but I like the odds with Cousins much better.
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4) I (and 90% of all Browns fans) would care if the Best Cousins could do is 8-8. Sure, we've been in the sewer for so long, 8-8 is improvement. But you hand a guy a $150 million contract, it's playoffs or bust- if not Super Bowl.
5) I agree, it's early to lock in on a favorite. Right now, I have Mayfield\Darnold 1-2,but I could be swayed between now and April. FWIW, I have Jackson as my #5 pick, behind Josh Allen.
6) The only and I mean the only way you draft Barkley #1 overall is if you think he's going to be Jim Brown good, and maybe not even then. As I've told Po a bunch of times Brown, Payton, and Sanders have 2 championships between the three of them, the Lions never even made the Super Bowl with Barry. Payton's is as much due to the all-star defense the Bears had that year.
Here is my problem with that logic. You take that 30 mil and you spend it else where. What's more likely, Cousins gets you 8 wins or another QB with a few more FAs? Let' do it this way
Cousins + the top player in the draft + some lesser FAs
Or
Rookie QB + Jarvis Landry + Leveon Bell
Even if I give you the top 2 offensive FAs do you think that gives us a better chance to win games? I don't think it impossible we can strike gold on one of the rookies, but I like the odds with Cousins much better.
Here is my problem with that logic. You take that 30 mil and you spend it else where. What's more likely, Cousins gets you 8 wins or another QB with a few more FAs? Let' do it this way
Cousins + the top player in the draft + some lesser FAs
Or
Rookie QB + Jarvis Landry + Leveon Bell
Even if I give you the top 2 offensive FAs do you think that gives us a better chance to win games? I don't think it impossible we can strike gold on one of the rookies, but I like the odds with Cousins much better.
Who says we're going to spend that money this year? Short term thinking. The Browns aren't going to the 2019 Super Bowl even if they spend all of the $110 million cap in one year.
My scenario is none of the above. Not using one of the top two picks on a QB isn't going to happen, not in a draft where some of the talking heads are saying 5-6 quarterbacks could go in the first round. We aren't starting a rookie QB, and we're not spending $150 million on Cousins either. It's not just the humongous contract. You get Kirk, forget about grooming a long term QB, you're stuck with Cousins for at least 3 years. Sure Dorsey & Company will at least kick the tires to see if there's any interest- due diligence and all that.
Bring in a veteran bridge starter on a two year contract that will be 20% of what Cousins is going to command. Will we win a few less games? Probably. But we can sit Darnold, Mayfield, or even your guy Jackson for a year- makes your time horizon around 8 years longer. Can't just think about next year- have to be thinking a year or two down the road. I doubt Bell is going anywhere. The Steelers took care of Antonio Brown, Bell is next in line to get paid. Pittsburgh knows when Ben retires, the Super Bowl window is closed. Having cap room in reserve will be great- when we're ready to make that big move. 2018 is not the year.
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Here is my problem with that logic. You take that 30 mil and you spend it else where. What's more likely, Cousins gets you 8 wins or another QB with a few more FAs? Let' do it this way
Cousins + the top player in the draft + some lesser FAs
Or
Rookie QB + Jarvis Landry + Leveon Bell
Even if I give you the top 2 offensive FAs do you think that gives us a better chance to win games? I don't think it impossible we can strike gold on one of the rookies, but I like the odds with Cousins much better.
Who says we're going to spend that money this year? Short term thinking. The Browns aren't going to the 2019 Super Bowl even if they spend all of the $110 million cap in one year.
My scenario is none of the above. Not using one of the top two picks on a QB isn't going to happen, not in a draft where some of the talking heads are saying 5-6 quarterbacks could go in the first round. We aren't starting a rookie QB, and we're not spending $150 million on Cousins either. It's not just the humongous contract. You get Kirk, forget about grooming a long term QB, you're stuck with Cousins for at least 3 years. Sure Dorsey & Company will at least kick the tires to see if there's any interest- due diligence and all that.
Bring in a veteran bridge starter on a two year contract that will be 20% of what Cousins is going to command. Will we win a few less games? Probably. But we can sit Darnold, Mayfield, or even your guy Jackson for a year- makes your time horizon around 8 years longer. Can't just think about next year- have to be thinking a year or two down the road. I doubt Bell is going anywhere. The Steelers took care of Antonio Brown, Bell is next in line to get paid. Pittsburgh knows when Ben retires, the Super Bowl window is closed. Having cap room in reserve will be great- when we're ready to make that big move. 2018 is not the year.
Who says we're going to spend that money this year? Short term thinking. The Browns aren't going to the 2019 Super Bowl even if they spend all of the $110 million cap in one year.
My scenario is none of the above. Not using one of the top two picks on a QB isn't going to happen, not in a draft where some of the talking heads are saying 5-6 quarterbacks could go in the first round. We aren't starting a rookie QB, and we're not spending $150 million on Cousins either. It's not just the humongous contract. You get Kirk, forget about grooming a long term QB, you're stuck with Cousins for at least 3 years. Sure Dorsey & Company will at least kick the tires to see if there's any interest- due diligence and all that.
Bring in a veteran bridge starter on a two year contract that will be 20% of what Cousins is going to command. Will we win a few less games? Probably. But we can sit Darnold, Mayfield, or even your guy Jackson for a year- makes your time horizon around 8 years longer. Can't just think about next year- have to be thinking a year or two down the road. I doubt Bell is going anywhere. The Steelers took care of Antonio Brown, Bell is next in line to get paid. Pittsburgh knows when Ben retires, the Super Bowl window is closed. Having cap room in reserve will be great- when we're ready to make that big move. 2018 is not the year.
So Manziel in as the bridge you say?
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He broke a bunch of ncaa records. Mike Vick is the closest player that could do what he does and even Mike Vick said he's better.
Go do your scouting on him and you'll see most of his problems are pretty coachable.
Oh I've watched him in passing... didn't see Vick at all. Reminds me of Vince in a way though.
Oh I've watched him in passing... didn't see Vick at all. Reminds me of Vince in a way though.
Just watched Lamar make some VERY questionable decisions the first half of his first start. Including watching such a sidearm-assed throw it hit his LG in the helmet.
Reminded me of this thread.
Hand to Christ, they could be clones with their throwing motion. Great soundtrack though.
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