The Combine - a few days away...
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That doesn't have jackshit to do with anything and is a terrible argument to make.
Would I select a HoF'er today knowing how they played? Of Shmucking course. In 2000 would have I selected Tom Brady because, Gee-Shmucking-whiz, he'll improve on his completion % and command because that just "HAS" to be the norm.
With a franchise in the state the Browns are, you make the sensible and pragmatic picks that make sense based on numbers, interviews, tape and evals. That player is Rosen.
No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
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No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
Just not worth it man. I made an entire thread that didn't use stats at all (as if using stats is bad in the first place) and the anti-Rosen crowd here doesn't give a crap. At the end of the day they see the guy as a liberal leaning rich kid and that makes them mad. It became VERY apparent so I'm not going to swim upstream for people who don't wanna listen. I'm sure I'll get some boo hoo responses but it's just the truth.
Now in all seriousness with Rosen, I've made my opinion that he's the best prospect in the class. I am a bit worried about the concussions though, I'll be interested to see how he checks out medically.
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NFL execs unanimously pick Sam Darnold over Josh Rosen - 247Sports
Nov 17, 2017 - NFL executive just made the call on the Draft's toughest decision. ... Countless hours will be poured into the evaluation process to avoid a bust. UCLA's Josh Rosen and USC's Sam Darnold have been widely regarded as the top options. NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah polled five executives to gauge which
Anonymous Sources: Josh Rosen Using Football to Make Money | The ...
thebiglead.com/2018/01/03/anonymous-sources-josh-rosen-comparisons-character/Jan 3, 2018 - Scouts have concerns about Josh Rosen's mentality. ... UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen is likely to be a top pick in the upcoming NFL Draft. His potential is ... In a 2016 Sports Illustrated feature, Rosen's worst-case scenario was another Heisman-winning NFL bust not named Robert Griffin III. And yet Rosen ...
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5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/josh-rosen?id=2560059
Weaknesses
Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school. Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch. Too casual in pocket set-up. Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent. Refuses easy throws at times. Arm talent and strength are below average. May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws. Poor career deep ball completion rate. Excess air under ball allows challenges. Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top. Needs better anticipation. Poor mobility. Struggles to elude early pressure. Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move. Too much hero ball. Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away. Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student.Draft Projection
Round 1Sources Tell Us
"He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL ExecutiveNFL Comparison
Trent GreenBottom Line
Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot. -
5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
you don't get poker, and you are all wet in Egypt. Rosen is playing with a bad hand. We'll see if his bluff holds up.
Seriously - when I watched the State Farm all star competition - rosen completely missed the longer moving targets.
and as much as a lot of guys rallied around each other- having a great time with a lot of the guys -different positons/different teams - they don't rally around rosen. At the senior bowl, all sorts of players flock around Allen, Mayfield and others.
Even in the college games, rosen isn't a guy they rally around.
Odd, anything bad said about Allen is LEGIT, but anything bad about rosen the unchosen, is criticized.
Ah, well, come ON combine and the draft.
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No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
You wanna do karate in the garage?
LOL
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5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
you don't get poker, and you are all wet in Egypt. Rosen is playing with a bad hand. We'll see if his bluff holds up.
Seriously - when I watched the State Farm all star competition - rosen completely missed the longer moving targets.
and as much as a lot of guys rallied around each other- having a great time with a lot of the guys -different positons/different teams - they don't rally around rosen. At the senior bowl, all sorts of players flock around Allen, Mayfield and others.
Even in the college games, rosen isn't a guy they rally around.
Odd, anything bad said about Allen is LEGIT, but anything bad about rosen the unchosen, is criticized.
Ah, well, come ON combine and the draft.
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and I haven't watched Allen and Rosen? I just said I've seen other players - especially qb's, NOT rally around rosen like they do with others. If I can see it, then why would you think other EXPERTS in the NFL don't see it? We'll see how it goes in the draft.
Most of what I have said about rosen not being a guy on my draftable list - is intangibles. Read about what Neidnagle said about
Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. I see rosen as ryan leaf. The similarities are there.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/24/ryan-leaf-nfl-draft-1998-peyton-manning
"the ABC newsmagazine show. It was featuring a man claiming to be an expert on brain-typing. The man, Jonathan Niednagel, is a lay scientist whose academic credentials are rooted in finance, not science or psychology. "
"Niednagel was asked to size up Manning versus Leaf. He said one of the two guys has “It.” One doesn’t. "
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"San Diego had the second pick of the draft. Beathard admitted it was the Chargers who were paying Niednagel. “He says Peyton Manning has It. Ryan doesn’t,” Beathard told Jones. Manning was labeled as an “ESTP.” Leaf was “ESTJ.”
“I said, ‘Are we going to take Ryan Leaf, even though we know he’s not one of those guys?’” Jones recalled. “He said, ‘Well . . .’ and then he hemmed and hawed and said something about how the owner made the call.” The Colts shrewdly drafted Manning first. The Chargers, against Niednagel’s suggestion, drafted Leaf, who wasted little time alienating his teammates."
******************************************
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So what you're saying is that Allen has the "It"... this team has been missing?
edit: The "It" factor that people rally around, but you acknowledge he needs time to learn the playbook and adjust to the NFL... is what I'm asking?
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Pre Madonna or Post Madonna?
In all seriousness, show me one single game where Allen looked better than Rosen did in his debut as a true freshman. How fitting that his first pass was a complete dime, and was dropped.
Show me a game where Rosen looked better than Johnny Boy Football.
Farve, Brady and Brees all had average completions numbers in college and improved to be the best. Those guys all came into the NFL humble wanting to play for anybody because they love the game itself above all else.
NFL front offices are looking at Allen and thinking to themselves what could happen if he had some actual talent around him in a real pro style offense. Wyoming is not a pro style offense as some of the Rosen minions are bemoaning. The QB is not asked to run the ball with any frequency in the pros. You run around like RG3 and Vick and youre lite up by a LB or DB. No NFL team with any sense wants to risk the franchise and most important player on the team picking up a low priority 3rd and 10... There is a good reason why you pay a Left Tackle all that money and a reason why 5 guys are stuck at the line of scrimmage on most passing plays. The NFL is a passing league today and guys like Lamar Jackson come and go
I see that the mighty Josh Rosen is telling people who he will play for. What a joke. This guy is going to get a dose of reality when it gets real out there.
I see that the mighty Josh Rosen is telling people who he will play for
That's neither what he said nor what he meant, but don't bother with reality when you're looking to insult someone! Never ask any clarifying questions and always deliberately misconstrue the statements of people who aren't old enough to get drunk!
He said he wants to play for a team that wants him -- that's it. But hey, you've convinced yourself, so it must be true!
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Allen needs time, Darnold needs time, etc etc. My top picks for having "it" - the intangibles ...
are Allen, Mayfield, White, Rudolph, Darnold...etc.
I do not see rosen having "it". ?That's all. I see him as a ryan leaf personality.
Rosen is not that fighter to win and rally his teammates in the mud and the snow.
He isn't a leader. He doesn't love the game. We'll see how it all plays out. JMHSO.
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Allen needs time, Darnold needs time, etc etc. My top picks for having "it" - the intangibles ...
are Allen, Mayfield, White, Rudolph, Darnold...etc.
I do not see rosen having "it". ?That's all. I see him as a ryan leaf personality.
Rosen is not that fighter to win and rally his teammates in the mud and the snow.
He isn't a leader. He doesn't love the game. We'll see how it all plays out. JMHSO.
Allen needs time, Darnold needs time, etc etc. My top picks for having "it" - the intangibles ...
are Allen, Mayfield, White, Rudolph, Darnold...etc.
I do not see rosen having "it". ?That's all. I see him as a ryan leaf personality.
Rosen is not that fighter to win and rally his teammates in the mud and the snow.
He isn't a leader. He doesn't love the game. We'll see how it all plays out. JMHSO.
Good.... because you said the EXACT same things about Manziel 4 years ago. Perhaps you're catching onto the pattern I've established on how some of you review QB's.
Dated 5/25/14....
nah, it's just spring - *some* fans' cabin fever prompts them
to frolic amidst the wild flowers in rage....
But Mr. Hoorta is not bitter. Never rageous. Not even outrageous.
Most all of us, mehbe even you and walter, are surely far different in real life
than online, like Brad Paisley's song.
Manziel has the "it" we've been missing ...but shoving him into prime time before
he knows the playbook doesn't sound smart, that's all.
Next...
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Would you select them in the 1st round today?
That doesn't have jackshit to do with anything and is a terrible argument to make.
Would I select a HoF'er today knowing how they played? Of Shmucking course. In 2000 would have I selected Tom Brady because, Gee-Shmucking-whiz, he'll improve on his completion % and command because that just "HAS" to be the norm.
With a franchise in the state the Browns are, you make the sensible and pragmatic picks that make sense based on numbers, interviews, tape and evals. That player is Rosen.
That doesn't have jackshit to do with anything and is a terrible argument to make.
Would I select a HoF'er today knowing how they played? Of Shmucking course. In 2000 would have I selected Tom Brady because, Gee-Shmucking-whiz, he'll improve on his completion % and command because that just "HAS" to be the norm.
With a franchise in the state the Browns are, you make the sensible and pragmatic picks that make sense based on numbers, interviews, tape and evals. That player is Rosen.
Only thing that worries me Tia is the concussions. Another couple and he's done before gets going.
No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
Sure, some QBs have improved. You're quoting exceptions to prove the rule. Most of them don't. The fail rate in the NFL says so. It's possible Allen could improve his accuracy and have an Elway level career. Odds say a Blaine Gabbert, Derek Anderson outcome is more likely.
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That doesn't have jackshit to do with anything and is a terrible argument to make.
Would I select a HoF'er today knowing how they played? Of Shmucking course. In 2000 would have I selected Tom Brady because, Gee-Shmucking-whiz, he'll improve on his completion % and command because that just "HAS" to be the norm.
With a franchise in the state the Browns are, you make the sensible and pragmatic picks that make sense based on numbers, interviews, tape and evals. That player is Rosen.
No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
No.
No, no, no.
This is a direct example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
If this was true, Josh Allen cannot fail - he can only be failed. But the reality of life is that "right" NEVER happens.. and people in all phases of life will always need to overcome bad something-or-other within their team to achieve. If you don't think that's true -- suck it up, snowflake.
During the season is probably not going to happen - rather, during the offseason Allen could see any number of QB people such as Adam Dedeaux [Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Dalton, Wentz] on his own to improve.. and even so far this offseason you can find articles on each of those 4 spending time with Dedeaux.
People will improve because they are self-aware enough to BOTH recognize and internalize their own flaws AND summon the desire to overcome those items - simply to be the best player they can be. They're adults - they won't do anything just for somebody else and will definitely half-butt it if improvement is phrased as a "requirement."
Notice those last 2 sentences had nothing to do with athletics... that's how personal growth happens to everyone throughout life.
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Like I said, the Rosen minions are stuck on stats.
I don't think that is true. Any more than say, the anti-Allen group are stuck on stats. I think they are stuck on seeing what many call is the most NFL ready...pocket style QB out there.
I am in no camp...and I don't know if in fact Rosen IS that (the most NFL adaptable guy).....but I don't think it is all about stats.
I don't think that is true. Any more than say, the anti-Allen group are stuck on stats. I think they are stuck on seeing what many call is the most NFL ready...pocket style QB out there.
I am in no camp...and I don't know if in fact Rosen IS that (the most NFL adaptable guy).....but I don't think it is all about stats.
Bingo. If it was just stats, mayfield is the guy, hands down. You can't say stats mean nothing, because accuracy and turnovers matter, but they're not the only measure.
It's the command of the offense, the accuracy, the level of competition, the style of offense, and the overall pattern of consistency/improvement. I've yet to see any analyst say "Rosen needs work on his footwork and throwing motion". It's dialed in.
The odds are that a qb who's demonstrated these traits will be more likely to make the NFL transition the smoothest.
Rosen not being a leader or not liked is bogus. His teammates and coach loved him. He led the biggest comeback in school history. In his own words, "why would I leave a sport (tennis) I was a nationally ranked star in to play a different sport if I didn't love it?" I've posted team stats to give perspective of the situation around him. He battled all season and put up very good numbers.
Comparing him to JFF is a Retarded argument. They're nothing alike physically, style of play is completely different, different system... Different everything.
If you're banking on a guy to build your team around, I think he's the safest bet. There are no guarantees in the NFL. But the general rule is that QB's will not get more accurate. Short QB's generally don't do as well, and big 12 guys haven't been able to transition very well.
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Like I said, the Rosen minions are stuck on stats.
yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
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Good.... because you said the EXACT same things about Manziel 4 years ago. Perhaps you're catching onto the pattern I've established on how some of you review QB's. Tiamsies
**********************************************************
AHAHAHHAHHA. wrong, lie. See, I was on record as arguing AGAINST drafting Johnny Manziel all over this board, and to my friends on his red flags. All sorts of guys might have "it", except for red flags, lack of arm strength, etc. Leadership and intangibles seem to be tough to come by.
Nobody? in the NFL or anywhere else, will be saying that Allen and Mayfield aren't admired by their teammates, and don't rally around them. It's obvious to everybody who watches. They are tough minded to the max, and they are heroes to their teammates, their coaches, their entire hometowns and fanbase. Mike White - same thing. Lamar Jackson is the same. Rudolph is, too. I don't have them high on my list for other reasons...
Now, compare that to lonely rosenbum. Even HE admitted he had a problem with women on his own campus "who don't know him".
That's just one sign of several, Tiamsies.
And lack of character, leadership, work ethic, etc. negates "best pure passer".
Rosenbum does NOT have "IT". It isn't just a little smoke - it's an opaque dense blackout smokie.
You can ask Canton Mike - I had jm off my list like I have rosenbum off my list. I've been about drafting for character since forever. He DID have "it" on the field. It's his red flags that had me write him off my list.
Here, write this down: I hereby, AGAIN, admit rosenbum is the best pure passer in this draft.
But for me, he is undraftable like ryan leaf should have been. At least in the first round.
Your comeback is as weak as your support is for Ryan Rosenbum. Or is it Josh Leafenbum.
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Like I said, the Rosen minions are stuck on stats.
yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
Cal- that's jumping to conclusions. Comparing Rosen to Leaf. You would have personally had to interview both of them, talk to their coaches, teammates- everyone associated with him. All the negative stuff you're quoting is second hand hearsay- at best. So he soaks in a hot tub- his parent have money. Being a nationally ranked tennis player as Josh was, you can make more on the tennis circuit than playing football if you're good enough. Roger Federer makes around $45 million a year, counting endorsements, and his lifetime earnings top $100 million. He won't be walking around with a cane when he's 60 either, with a couple blown out knees.
This is a far cry from Ruben Foster, Manziel, Tyrann Mathieu, and Joe Mixon stuff.
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5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
Again, he's never going to realize it. He just posts the same 3 things hashed out on different platforms which I outright provided multiple items saying those items are either grossly over estimated or wrong. Not surprisingly that was met with the "fingers in the ears" approach.
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