The Combine - a few days away...
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That doesn't have jackshit to do with anything and is a terrible argument to make.
Would I select a HoF'er today knowing how they played? Of Shmucking course. In 2000 would have I selected Tom Brady because, Gee-Shmucking-whiz, he'll improve on his completion % and command because that just "HAS" to be the norm.
With a franchise in the state the Browns are, you make the sensible and pragmatic picks that make sense based on numbers, interviews, tape and evals. That player is Rosen.
No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
No.
No, no, no.
This is a direct example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
If this was true, Josh Allen cannot fail - he can only be failed. But the reality of life is that "right" NEVER happens.. and people in all phases of life will always need to overcome bad something-or-other within their team to achieve. If you don't think that's true -- suck it up, snowflake.
During the season is probably not going to happen - rather, during the offseason Allen could see any number of QB people such as Adam Dedeaux [Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Dalton, Wentz] on his own to improve.. and even so far this offseason you can find articles on each of those 4 spending time with Dedeaux.
People will improve because they are self-aware enough to BOTH recognize and internalize their own flaws AND summon the desire to overcome those items - simply to be the best player they can be. They're adults - they won't do anything just for somebody else and will definitely half-butt it if improvement is phrased as a "requirement."
Notice those last 2 sentences had nothing to do with athletics... that's how personal growth happens to everyone throughout life.
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Like I said, the Rosen minions are stuck on stats.
I don't think that is true. Any more than say, the anti-Allen group are stuck on stats. I think they are stuck on seeing what many call is the most NFL ready...pocket style QB out there.
I am in no camp...and I don't know if in fact Rosen IS that (the most NFL adaptable guy).....but I don't think it is all about stats.
I don't think that is true. Any more than say, the anti-Allen group are stuck on stats. I think they are stuck on seeing what many call is the most NFL ready...pocket style QB out there.
I am in no camp...and I don't know if in fact Rosen IS that (the most NFL adaptable guy).....but I don't think it is all about stats.
Bingo. If it was just stats, mayfield is the guy, hands down. You can't say stats mean nothing, because accuracy and turnovers matter, but they're not the only measure.
It's the command of the offense, the accuracy, the level of competition, the style of offense, and the overall pattern of consistency/improvement. I've yet to see any analyst say "Rosen needs work on his footwork and throwing motion". It's dialed in.
The odds are that a qb who's demonstrated these traits will be more likely to make the NFL transition the smoothest.
Rosen not being a leader or not liked is bogus. His teammates and coach loved him. He led the biggest comeback in school history. In his own words, "why would I leave a sport (tennis) I was a nationally ranked star in to play a different sport if I didn't love it?" I've posted team stats to give perspective of the situation around him. He battled all season and put up very good numbers.
Comparing him to JFF is a Retarded argument. They're nothing alike physically, style of play is completely different, different system... Different everything.
If you're banking on a guy to build your team around, I think he's the safest bet. There are no guarantees in the NFL. But the general rule is that QB's will not get more accurate. Short QB's generally don't do as well, and big 12 guys haven't been able to transition very well.
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Like I said, the Rosen minions are stuck on stats.
yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
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Good.... because you said the EXACT same things about Manziel 4 years ago. Perhaps you're catching onto the pattern I've established on how some of you review QB's. Tiamsies
**********************************************************
AHAHAHHAHHA. wrong, lie. See, I was on record as arguing AGAINST drafting Johnny Manziel all over this board, and to my friends on his red flags. All sorts of guys might have "it", except for red flags, lack of arm strength, etc. Leadership and intangibles seem to be tough to come by.
Nobody? in the NFL or anywhere else, will be saying that Allen and Mayfield aren't admired by their teammates, and don't rally around them. It's obvious to everybody who watches. They are tough minded to the max, and they are heroes to their teammates, their coaches, their entire hometowns and fanbase. Mike White - same thing. Lamar Jackson is the same. Rudolph is, too. I don't have them high on my list for other reasons...
Now, compare that to lonely rosenbum. Even HE admitted he had a problem with women on his own campus "who don't know him".
That's just one sign of several, Tiamsies.
And lack of character, leadership, work ethic, etc. negates "best pure passer".
Rosenbum does NOT have "IT". It isn't just a little smoke - it's an opaque dense blackout smokie.
You can ask Canton Mike - I had jm off my list like I have rosenbum off my list. I've been about drafting for character since forever. He DID have "it" on the field. It's his red flags that had me write him off my list.
Here, write this down: I hereby, AGAIN, admit rosenbum is the best pure passer in this draft.
But for me, he is undraftable like ryan leaf should have been. At least in the first round.
Your comeback is as weak as your support is for Ryan Rosenbum. Or is it Josh Leafenbum.
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Like I said, the Rosen minions are stuck on stats.
yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
Cal- that's jumping to conclusions. Comparing Rosen to Leaf. You would have personally had to interview both of them, talk to their coaches, teammates- everyone associated with him. All the negative stuff you're quoting is second hand hearsay- at best. So he soaks in a hot tub- his parent have money. Being a nationally ranked tennis player as Josh was, you can make more on the tennis circuit than playing football if you're good enough. Roger Federer makes around $45 million a year, counting endorsements, and his lifetime earnings top $100 million. He won't be walking around with a cane when he's 60 either, with a couple blown out knees.
This is a far cry from Ruben Foster, Manziel, Tyrann Mathieu, and Joe Mixon stuff.
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5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
Again, he's never going to realize it. He just posts the same 3 things hashed out on different platforms which I outright provided multiple items saying those items are either grossly over estimated or wrong. Not surprisingly that was met with the "fingers in the ears" approach.
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yep. Ryan Leaf had stats to be the first pick. yep.
Cal- that's jumping to conclusions. Comparing Rosen to Leaf. You would have personally had to interview both of them, talk to their coaches, teammates- everyone associated with him. All the negative stuff you're quoting is second hand hearsay- at best. So he soaks in a hot tub- his parent have money. Being a nationally ranked tennis player as Josh was, you can make more on the tennis circuit than playing football if you're good enough. Roger Federer makes around $45 million a year, counting endorsements, and his lifetime earnings top $100 million. He won't be walking around with a cane when he's 60 either, with a couple blown out knees.
This is a far cry from Ruben Foster, Manziel, Tyrann Mathieu, and Joe Mixon stuff.
Cal- that's jumping to conclusions. Comparing Rosen to Leaf. You would have personally had to interview both of them, talk to their coaches, teammates- everyone associated with him. All the negative stuff you're quoting is second hand hearsay- at best. So he soaks in a hot tub- his parent have money. Being a nationally ranked tennis player as Josh was, you can make more on the tennis circuit than playing football if you're good enough. Roger Federer makes around $45 million a year, counting endorsements, and his lifetime earnings top $100 million. He won't be walking around with a cane when he's 60 either, with a couple blown out knees.
This is a far cry from Ruben Foster, Manziel, Tyrann Mathieu, and Joe Mixon stuff.
Yes, it's true - but I read Ryan Leaf's honest sad laments about himself back then, and I read about rosen's critics - and read his own admissions about being misunderstood by women on his own campus, and I see glaring similarities, that's all.
Not THAT big a jump. But it's tough to ascertain measurements on intangibles - sure would be good if that was not true.But because completion percentage, etc etc etc are in his favor, does NOT mean that intangibles should be disregarded. I would be interested to interview Ryan Leaf later on, and ask him directly if he sees himself a good bit in Rosen.
But am I a journalist? no. All we can do is try to guess the intangibles. But I won't rely on stats as concrete proof of a qb's future greatness or failure. Weeden had great stats.
his last three years ...at Oklahoma, Weeden had the completion percentages of 62.5, 66.9, and 72.4.
here's his profile:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1066752-brandon-weeden-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report
So, to be honest, he was a dud as a pro qb. The question is, why? with those completion percentages...that's all some of us are saying. Going by completion percentages and "best pocket passer" declarations doesn't impress me. That's all. I do not see heart for the game in rosen.
By the way, I understand your tennis point - but HOW MANY tennis players make the big money? All the starting qb's in the NFL make the big money. You don't get drafted right out of college and make millions. You don't get drafted into tennis at all.
You'd have to earn it, play for years, to get there. Rosen isn't an "earn it" guy - he's an "entitled guy".
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5 execs in November and the always fun "anonymous" sources.
You're being played, old man. You don't even realize it.
Again, he's never going to realize it. He just posts the same 3 things hashed out on different platforms which I outright provided multiple items saying those items are either grossly over estimated or wrong. Not surprisingly that was met with the "fingers in the ears" approach.
Again, he's never going to realize it. He just posts the same 3 things hashed out on different platforms which I outright provided multiple items saying those items are either grossly over estimated or wrong. Not surprisingly that was met with the "fingers in the ears" approach.
smoke, possible fire. Lots of serious smoke. I didn't write these articles, JRB.
Trent Dilfer: Josh Rosen will 'piss off' a lot of people | NFL | Sporting ...
www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/...rosen-will.../1v6da6sekzr4n15ti8b1h50afjJan 12, 2018 - "But the people that get it, the people that really like him, the people that understand what it means to be the best at the highest level will get that he has that stuff." Dilfer and Rosen did not get along initially. In fact, Rosen came out publicly and said he didn't like working with Dilfer. However, the two worked ...
NFL execs unanimously pick Sam Darnold over Josh Rosen - 247Sports
Nov 17, 2017 - Countless hours will be poured into the evaluation process to avoid a bust. UCLA's Josh Rosen and USC's Sam Darnold have been widely regarded as the top options. NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah polled five executives to gauge which player has the advantage early in the process. All five executive .
Denver Broncos mock draft: Could Josh Rosen fall?
Jan 19, 2018 - We'll dive into the possibility of the Broncos and Rosen more as the offseason progresses, but the interview process will certainly be critical for him. The Broncos are getting an up close look at both Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen for a week at the Senior Bowl, a luxury they do not have with any of Sam ...
Josh Rosen is talented, but has major flaws to his game | PFF News ...
Sep 29, 2015 - We've already seen signs of the ups and downs that are expected from a young quarterback, but that leaves us wondering just how good Rosen can be going forward. Let's start by focusing on the bad from his game — because in spite of the hype, he's young, and there will be plenty of that on display.
Josh Rosen Viewed as "Uncoachable" By Many Around UCLA
Aug 17, 2017 - Oftentimes throughout history this leads to some pretty big draft busts. ... In an age when, thanks to social media, players are under a larger spotlight than ever, how will the NFL perceive Rosen? ... There can be no doubt that the United States is the most politically-charged and volatile its been in decades.
Denver Broncos mock draft: Could Josh Rosen fall?
Jan 19, 2018 - We'll dive into the possibility of the Broncos and Rosen more as the offseason progresses, but the interview process will certainly be critical for him. The Broncos are getting an up close look at both Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen for a week at the Senior Bowl, a luxury they do not have with any of Sam .
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yeah, me too. SO...
I think I want to study the qb's, wr's and rb's most of all the positions in the combine.
I'm looking for Mike White, Darnold and Allen to light it up.
and I keep wondering about Eq? St. Brown - and a few others, like D. J. Chark to light it up.
and Ballage. we'll see.
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You aren't entertained and enthralled by an old fart throwing a never-ending hissy fit Orion?
I'm completely entertained
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College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
No.
No, no, no.
This is a direct example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
If this was true, Josh Allen cannot fail - he can only be failed. But the reality of life is that "right" NEVER happens.. and people in all phases of life will always need to overcome bad something-or-other within their team to achieve. If you don't think that's true -- suck it up, snowflake.
During the season is probably not going to happen - rather, during the offseason Allen could see any number of QB people such as Adam Dedeaux [Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Dalton, Wentz] on his own to improve.. and even so far this offseason you can find articles on each of those 4 spending time with Dedeaux.
People will improve because they are self-aware enough to BOTH recognize and internalize their own flaws AND summon the desire to overcome those items - simply to be the best player they can be. They're adults - they won't do anything just for somebody else and will definitely half-butt it if improvement is phrased as a "requirement."
Notice those last 2 sentences had nothing to do with athletics... that's how personal growth happens to everyone throughout life.
No.
No, no, no.
This is a direct example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
If this was true, Josh Allen cannot fail - he can only be failed. But the reality of life is that "right" NEVER happens.. and people in all phases of life will always need to overcome bad something-or-other within their team to achieve. If you don't think that's true -- suck it up, snowflake.
During the season is probably not going to happen - rather, during the offseason Allen could see any number of QB people such as Adam Dedeaux [Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Dalton, Wentz] on his own to improve.. and even so far this offseason you can find articles on each of those 4 spending time with Dedeaux.
People will improve because they are self-aware enough to BOTH recognize and internalize their own flaws AND summon the desire to overcome those items - simply to be the best player they can be. They're adults - they won't do anything just for somebody else and will definitely half-butt it if improvement is phrased as a "requirement."
Notice those last 2 sentences had nothing to do with athletics... that's how personal growth happens to everyone throughout life.
First off, I aint a snowflake. Secondly, Allen will be overcoming something in his life.
My statement is FACT. QBs have improved from labled with low completions numbers and they became stars in the NFL.
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Again, he's never going to realize it. He just posts the same 3 things hashed out on different platforms which I outright provided multiple items saying those items are either grossly over estimated or wrong. Not surprisingly that was met with the "fingers in the ears" approach.
smoke, possible fire. Lots of serious smoke. I didn't write these articles, JRB.
Trent Dilfer: Josh Rosen will 'piss off' a lot of people | NFL | Sporting ...
www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/...rosen-will.../1v6da6sekzr4n15ti8b1h50afjJan 12, 2018 - "But the people that get it, the people that really like him, the people that understand what it means to be the best at the highest level will get that he has that stuff." Dilfer and Rosen did not get along initially. In fact, Rosen came out publicly and said he didn't like working with Dilfer. However, the two worked ...
NFL execs unanimously pick Sam Darnold over Josh Rosen - 247Sports
Nov 17, 2017 - Countless hours will be poured into the evaluation process to avoid a bust. UCLA's Josh Rosen and USC's Sam Darnold have been widely regarded as the top options. NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah polled five executives to gauge which player has the advantage early in the process. All five executive .
Denver Broncos mock draft: Could Josh Rosen fall?
Jan 19, 2018 - We'll dive into the possibility of the Broncos and Rosen more as the offseason progresses, but the interview process will certainly be critical for him. The Broncos are getting an up close look at both Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen for a week at the Senior Bowl, a luxury they do not have with any of Sam ...
Josh Rosen is talented, but has major flaws to his game | PFF News ...
Sep 29, 2015 - We've already seen signs of the ups and downs that are expected from a young quarterback, but that leaves us wondering just how good Rosen can be going forward. Let's start by focusing on the bad from his game — because in spite of the hype, he's young, and there will be plenty of that on display.
Josh Rosen Viewed as "Uncoachable" By Many Around UCLA
Aug 17, 2017 - Oftentimes throughout history this leads to some pretty big draft busts. ... In an age when, thanks to social media, players are under a larger spotlight than ever, how will the NFL perceive Rosen? ... There can be no doubt that the United States is the most politically-charged and volatile its been in decades.
Denver Broncos mock draft: Could Josh Rosen fall?
Jan 19, 2018 - We'll dive into the possibility of the Broncos and Rosen more as the offseason progresses, but the interview process will certainly be critical for him. The Broncos are getting an up close look at both Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen for a week at the Senior Bowl, a luxury they do not have with any of Sam .
smoke, possible fire. Lots of serious smoke. I didn't write these articles, JRB.
Trent Dilfer: Josh Rosen will 'piss off' a lot of people | NFL | Sporting ...
www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/...rosen-will.../1v6da6sekzr4n15ti8b1h50afjJan 12, 2018 - "But the people that get it, the people that really like him, the people that understand what it means to be the best at the highest level will get that he has that stuff." Dilfer and Rosen did not get along initially. In fact, Rosen came out publicly and said he didn't like working with Dilfer. However, the two worked ...
NFL execs unanimously pick Sam Darnold over Josh Rosen - 247Sports
Nov 17, 2017 - Countless hours will be poured into the evaluation process to avoid a bust. UCLA's Josh Rosen and USC's Sam Darnold have been widely regarded as the top options. NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah polled five executives to gauge which player has the advantage early in the process. All five executive .
Denver Broncos mock draft: Could Josh Rosen fall?
Jan 19, 2018 - We'll dive into the possibility of the Broncos and Rosen more as the offseason progresses, but the interview process will certainly be critical for him. The Broncos are getting an up close look at both Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen for a week at the Senior Bowl, a luxury they do not have with any of Sam ...
Josh Rosen is talented, but has major flaws to his game | PFF News ...
Sep 29, 2015 - We've already seen signs of the ups and downs that are expected from a young quarterback, but that leaves us wondering just how good Rosen can be going forward. Let's start by focusing on the bad from his game — because in spite of the hype, he's young, and there will be plenty of that on display.
Josh Rosen Viewed as "Uncoachable" By Many Around UCLA
Aug 17, 2017 - Oftentimes throughout history this leads to some pretty big draft busts. ... In an age when, thanks to social media, players are under a larger spotlight than ever, how will the NFL perceive Rosen? ... There can be no doubt that the United States is the most politically-charged and volatile its been in decades.
Denver Broncos mock draft: Could Josh Rosen fall?
Jan 19, 2018 - We'll dive into the possibility of the Broncos and Rosen more as the offseason progresses, but the interview process will certainly be critical for him. The Broncos are getting an up close look at both Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen for a week at the Senior Bowl, a luxury they do not have with any of Sam .
But, but, but, but...the stats. His completion numbers are HOF material.
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No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
Like Mariota and Winston have?
Which is the "right" offense, might I ask? You're just spouting words at this point and about to be put on ignore.
Also... John Boy had 3 future NFL players in front of him, a top 20 receiver and for all that "best conference in the NCAA" cowpoop... of the 3 best teams in said conference, he beat only 1 of them... once. Bama' in 12. Couldn't get by LSU twice, Florida or Bama the second time and a defensive deficient Mizzou his final year.
Stop using that Shmucker as any type of comparison for anything otherwise you're just trolling.
I don't support Rosen because of his "stats". I back the kid because he's flashed high level traits and moments in nearly every game I've watched that would point to a quality NFL starter.
The right offense is not one where Allen is rushing the ball. Look up his rushing attempts and figure it out for yourself because I dont have time to explain to you.
Also, GFY
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What I say about allen is legit because I've watched him. Don't really give much of a Shmuck what anyone else says.
Who are you?
Work in the NFL do you? If you do, your opinion and $1.00 will buy a can of coke.
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That doesn't have jackshit to do with anything and is a terrible argument to make.
Would I select a HoF'er today knowing how they played? Of Shmucking course. In 2000 would have I selected Tom Brady because, Gee-Shmucking-whiz, he'll improve on his completion % and command because that just "HAS" to be the norm.
With a franchise in the state the Browns are, you make the sensible and pragmatic picks that make sense based on numbers, interviews, tape and evals. That player is Rosen.
Only thing that worries me Tia is the concussions. Another couple and he's done before gets going.
No it is not a wrong argument to make.
Proves my stance 100% College QB have and will improve in the NFL because of the right offense, coaching and talent around them.
Sure, some QBs have improved. You're quoting exceptions to prove the rule. Most of them don't. The fail rate in the NFL says so. It's possible Allen could improve his accuracy and have an Elway level career. Odds say a Blaine Gabbert, Derek Anderson outcome is more likely.
Sure, some QBs have improved. You're quoting exceptions to prove the rule. Most of them don't. The fail rate in the NFL says so. It's possible Allen could improve his accuracy and have an Elway level career. Odds say a Blaine Gabbert, Derek Anderson outcome is more likely.
Everything needs to be viewed in proper context. Allen was NOT in a Pro style offense. The talent around him was sub par to say the least.
Teams are looking at Allens potential. What steps they can take to bring up those passing numbers. The Spread offense does wonders for some QBs.
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Sure, some QBs have improved. You're quoting exceptions to prove the rule. Most of them don't. The fail rate in the NFL says so. It's possible Allen could improve his accuracy and have an Elway level career. Odds say a Blaine Gabbert, Derek Anderson outcome is more likely.
Everything needs to be viewed in proper context. Allen was NOT in a Pro style offense. The talent around him was sub par to say the least.
Teams are looking at Allens potential. What steps they can take to bring up those passing numbers. The Spread offense does wonders for some QBs.
Everything needs to be viewed in proper context. Allen was NOT in a Pro style offense. The talent around him was sub par to say the least.
Teams are looking at Allens potential. What steps they can take to bring up those passing numbers. The Spread offense does wonders for some QBs.
He wasn't in a pro style offense???? Cal has been telling us for months that he was in a pro style offense that's why his numbers aren't as high as the other QBs? So can you Allen humpers get your story straight?
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Everything needs to be viewed in proper context. Allen was NOT in a Pro style offense. The talent around him was sub par to say the least.
Teams are looking at Allens potential. What steps they can take to bring up those passing numbers. The Spread offense does wonders for some QBs.
He wasn't in a pro style offense???? Cal has been telling us for months that he was in a pro style offense that's why his numbers aren't as high as the other QBs? So can you Allen humpers get your story straight?
He wasn't in a pro style offense???? Cal has been telling us for months that he was in a pro style offense that's why his numbers aren't as high as the other QBs? So can you Allen humpers get your story straight?
Facts are apparently optional for the Allen faction.
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