Barkley at #1?
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Yes, I know where they were actually drafted... this redraft was with knowing what they know now.
The Jets are "allegedly" willing to shell out big picks to move UP to take the third best QB. If that's the case, then why would it be any different than Cleveland taking Barkley #1 and getting a shot at 3 of the top 5 QBs without giving up a thing?
You get the RB to go with Taylor, Gordon, Landry and Njoku- for now AND you get to take a highly rated QB prospect, one that 25% of the people believe should be the #1 overall(exactly the same ratio as the other 4 QBs) at #4...
Yes, I know where they were actually drafted... this redraft was with knowing what they know now. The Jets are "allegedly" willing to shell out big picks to move UP to take the third best QB.
If that's the case, then why would it be any different than Cleveland taking Barkley #1 and getting a shot at 3 of the top 5 QBs without giving up a thing?
You get the RB to go with Taylor, Gordon, Landry and Njoku- for now AND you get to take a highly rated QB prospect, one that 25% of the people believe should be the #1 overall(exactly the same ratio as the other 4 QBs) at #4...
Why are we going to take our QB at #1 overall? Did you ever consider Dorsey may not be thinking, and have his QBs rated differently than the Jets? Because- besides the Jets (and\or the Bills, Broncos moving to #2) might take the guy he really wants? And with Carlos Hyde on board, it's probably not Saquon. BTW, Dorsey isn't "one of the people", he's not showing his cards yet- because he doesn't have to. What 25\25\25\25% of "the people" think will have zero influence on who he picks.
The Giants currently staying at #2 should tell you one of the following- they either have a player or two in mind, the Jets offer wasn't rich enough, or they're going to wait until the Browns make their pick to wheel and deal. (if they're trading down- it's a two way street, the team that's trading up will want to be sure the guy they want wasn't taken by the Browns.)
That the Browns turned the Jets down, means about exactly the same. You don't make a near sell the ranch trade to move up into the top three- especially to take a running back. Just forget it that the Jets are thinking anything else than QB.
In that case you would be wrong. Trust me, you'll see.
Just like Hue said "trust me" on Kessler".
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In the latest mock draft as of 5 hours ago...
Cleveland takes Ronald McDarnold #1.
--2. New York Giants -- Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State
With new decision-makers (general manager and head coach) in New York, there is a favorable chance this pick will be a quarterback or traded. But if this regime truly believes in Eli Manning as "the guy" for the next few seasons, Barkley and his impact would aid the quarterback more than anyone else at this selection.
---------------------------------------------
In this scenario it's supposing that the NY is going to run Eli "for the next few seasons"... How about Tyrod Taylor getting an impact player? No? Cleveland loves misery...
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How about we don't use the #1 overall pick on a position that has repeatedly shown to have talent in the later rounds?
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
How about we don't use the #1 overall pick on a position that has repeatedly shown to have talent in the later rounds?
How about we don't use the #1 overall pick on a position that has repeatedly shown to have talent in the later rounds?
You mean like the 2017 redraft proved?
BRILLIANT!
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How about we don't use the #1 overall pick on a position that has repeatedly shown to have talent in the later rounds?
How about we don't use the #1 overall pick on a position that has repeatedly shown to have talent in the later rounds?
Guice, Michel, Penny, Chubb, Jones, Johnson., Ballage. Most will be there when they pick in the 2nd rd.
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How about we don't use the #1 overall pick on a position that has repeatedly shown to have talent in the later rounds?
Guice, Michel, Penny, Chubb, Jones, Johnson., Ballage. Most will be there when they pick in the 2nd rd.
Ballage
My sleeper... I think he'll be around Day 3.
When we had 14 picks or whatever the total was I was looking at him as a 2nd RB somewhere Round 5-ish. Now with 9 picks? Not sure we can afford to.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
My sleeper..Ballage. I think he'll be around Day 3.
I get college stats should not be the tell all. but 450 carries, 1984 yards, sounds like ASU only let Kalen carry the mail to 27 TD's..At least his College coach(s) kept him fresh for NFL coaches..but he'd fit the Crow 4.3/carry with limited coaching workload's..(welcome Todd Haley,bring a bigger boat)
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The scary thing there they're hyping this group as maybe three in the top 10 or so even higher expectations than that bust class. I wonder if they drop some draft day?
1. 2011 - Busts (pick): Jake Locker (8th), Blaine Gabbert (10th), Christian Ponder (12th)
We will have to really give it 5-7 years to decide if this draft class is 1983/2004ish....or 2011/1999ish
We will have to really give it 5-7 years to decide if this draft class is 1983/2004ish....or 2011/1999ish
The Cleveland Browns aren't exactly known for giving anybody a five - 7 year leash.
WSS
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You know why they aren't drafted THAT high? Because the league has changed, they have the shortest career, and you can get similar production later.
Please show me a shorter career in the NFL than playing QB in Cleveland since 1999. That's why there's a t-shirt mocking all the guys that couldn't survive the QB gig in Cleveland. There's so many names on that sucker you can't buy a size smaller than Tent. The worst part of it all is we wasted the entire career of a HOF caliber Left Tackle that put forth a Pro Bowl effort for 10 consecutive years protecting the blind side of QB under incompetent FOs.
Understanding Bernie Kosar was a supplemental draft pick, when is the last time we aced the QB position in round 1 of the NFL draft? Today, I keep hearing we can't draft A running back first because we have to draft A quarterback first. Poe isn't saying he wants A running back - he's saying he wants Barkley because he thinks he's the best football player in the draft. The irony is that a lot of people jumping all over his opinion are pretty reluctant to announce THE QB by name as well as the part about why he's the better solution.
Since you mentioned the league has changed, what makes a blazing fast 230 lb RB that caught 54 passes for 632 yards (almost 12 ypc) and 3 TDs on top of 1251 yards rushing at 5.9 ypc and 18 TDs just a dime a dozen? This is also supposed to be a deep QB draft where many scouts and draft analysts see equivalent values in the top 3-4 QB prospects.
Do you know what team had the biggest record improvement in the entire NFL last year? It was Jacksonville. They sucked so bad in 2016 that their horrible record earned them the right to draft #4 overall. After drafting RB Leonard Fournette at #4 overall (and losing their best WR to IR) they suddenly made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game. To get there, they beat Pittsburgh 45-42. There's other teams with promising first round RBs like the LA Rams (Gurley) and Dallas Cowboys (Zeke). In all 3 cases, the RBs helped their young QBs qualify for a post season.
After the QB position - what skill position touches the ball most frequently? There was a time we never lost sight of this. Then again here's parts of the tradition reminding us why we shouldn't: Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, Mike Pruitt, Kevin Mack, Earnest Byner, Leroy Hoard. We also had other RBs to complement them like: Bobby Mitchell, Calvin Hill, Herman Fontenot, Cleo Miller, Curtis Dickey, Eric Metcalf, etc... Just in case people think football has changed so much, our RB position combined for 122 receptions in 1986 when we went 12-4. That was Lindy Infante's first year here as OC (hard to believe that was 32 years ago already).
Please show me a shorter career in the NFL than playing QB in Cleveland since 1999. That's why there's a t-shirt mocking all the guys that couldn't survive the QB gig in Cleveland. There's so many names on that sucker you can't buy a size smaller than Tent. The worst part of it all is we wasted the entire career of a HOF caliber Left Tackle that put forth a Pro Bowl effort for 10 consecutive years protecting the blind side of QB under incompetent FOs.
Understanding Bernie Kosar was a supplemental draft pick, when is the last time we aced the QB position in round 1 of the NFL draft? Today, I keep hearing we can't draft A running back first because we have to draft A quarterback first. Poe isn't saying he wants A running back - he's saying he wants Barkley because he thinks he's the best football player in the draft. The irony is that a lot of people jumping all over his opinion are pretty reluctant to announce THE QB by name as well as the part about why he's the better solution.
Since you mentioned the league has changed, what makes a blazing fast 230 lb RB that caught 54 passes for 632 yards (almost 12 ypc) and 3 TDs on top of 1251 yards rushing at 5.9 ypc and 18 TDs just a dime a dozen? This is also supposed to be a deep QB draft where many scouts and draft analysts see equivalent values in the top 3-4 QB prospects.
Do you know what team had the biggest record improvement in the entire NFL last year? It was Jacksonville. They sucked so bad in 2016 that their horrible record earned them the right to draft #4 overall. After drafting RB Leonard Fournette at #4 overall (and losing their best WR to IR) they suddenly made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game. To get there, they beat Pittsburgh 45-42. There's other teams with promising first round RBs like the LA Rams (Gurley) and Dallas Cowboys (Zeke). In all 3 cases, the RBs helped their young QBs qualify for a post season.
After the QB position - what skill position touches the ball most frequently? There was a time we never lost sight of this. Then again here's parts of the tradition reminding us why we shouldn't: Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, Mike Pruitt, Kevin Mack, Earnest Byner, Leroy Hoard. We also had other RBs to complement them like: Bobby Mitchell, Calvin Hill, Herman Fontenot, Cleo Miller, Curtis Dickey, Eric Metcalf, etc... Just in case people think football has changed so much, our RB position combined for 122 receptions in 1986 when we went 12-4. That was Lindy Infante's first year here as OC (hard to believe that was 32 years ago already).
Leonard fournette wasn’t the difference in Jacksonville, in fact, he was out produced by 2 3rd rounders. Am I to believe the jaguars wouldn’t have had a good season with Kareem Hunt?
The “most of these QBs are equal” take is a fan/media take. This FO will end their evaluation with a clear cut favorite, just like every other FO.
The Browns haven’t picked the top qb since 1999, which isn’t the same as whiffing on the scraps in the late 1st round.
Even if Barkley is the best RB in NFL history, he won’t do Sheet for a team that doesn’t have a QB. He can put up great numbers for the next 12 years and go 9-7, because RB is indeed a low value/easy to fill position.
But most importantly of all:
the Browns didn’t go 0-16 to let other teams determine which QB will be available for them. They’re in the driver seat and they’re not going to cower in fear like the fans who have PTSD. this FO has experience scouting and drafting successful QBs and will step up to the plate and go all in on the 1 player they believe is best for the Browns.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with this conversation. The league has proven, conclusively, that highly drafted RBs have zero correlation with success, that it’s a position that can be filled at any point in the draft/FA and has the shortest shelf life.
Every year the super bowl winner has a good qb a good defense and a running back that the entire league passed on 5-7 times.
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Saquon Barkley played in 38 college football games.
He failed to get to 100 yards rushing in 23 of them.
(61%) -
I just figured it out: This thread is like Groundhog Day.......and PoG is playing the part of Ned Ryerson:
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I just figured it out: This thread is like Groundhog Day.......and PoG is playing the part of Ned Ryerson:
I just figured it out: This thread is like Groundhog Day.......and PoG is playing the part of Ned Ryerson:
I'm beginning to think that it's time for a new one, (I'll check with Tour first). Groundhog Day indeed. I hope Po realizes (probably not) no one is even bothering to watch the 100th or so Saquon tribute video he's posting anymore. SO DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME POSTING THEM PO, LALALA, WE'RE NOT WATCHING!!! The only reason he still gets reponses is because his posts are so histerically over the top.
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Day after Day after Day after Day......we get bothered by old Needlenose PoG Ryerson.
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Day after Day after Day after Day......we get bothered by old Needlenose PoG Ryerson.
Day after Day after Day after Day......we get bothered by old Needlenose PoG Ryerson.
True, but-
It's more like the 33rpm record (for those old enough to remember them) that starts skipping, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, Saquon is great, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon, must draft Saquon.
Eventually it just drives you nuts.
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I just figured it out: This thread is like Groundhog Day.......and PoG is playing the part of Ned Ryerson:
I'm beginning to think that it's time for a new one, (I'll check with Tour first). Groundhog Day indeed. I hope Po realizes (probably not) no one is even bothering to watch the 100th or so Saquon tribute video he's posting anymore. SO DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME POSTING THEM PO, LALALA, WE'RE NOT WATCHING!!! The only reason he still gets reponses is because his posts are so histerically over the top.
I'm beginning to think that it's time for a new one, (I'll check with Tour first). Groundhog Day indeed. I hope Po realizes (probably not) no one is even bothering to watch the 100th or so Saquon tribute video he's posting anymore. SO DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME POSTING THEM PO, LALALA, WE'RE NOT WATCHING!!! The only reason he still gets reponses is because his posts are so histerically over the top.
Nah... this one thread is not Groundhog Day. A new thread a Day would be Groundhog Day.
As for closing this tread and allowing another to start... I fail to see how that accomplishes anything, but as long as Po is free to start a new Barkley thread, I'm cool either way.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Please show me a shorter career in the NFL than playing QB in Cleveland since 1999. That's why there's a t-shirt mocking all the guys that couldn't survive the QB gig in Cleveland. There's so many names on that sucker you can't buy a size smaller than Tent. The worst part of it all is we wasted the entire career of a HOF caliber Left Tackle that put forth a Pro Bowl effort for 10 consecutive years protecting the blind side of QB under incompetent FOs.
Understanding Bernie Kosar was a supplemental draft pick, when is the last time we aced the QB position in round 1 of the NFL draft? Today, I keep hearing we can't draft A running back first because we have to draft A quarterback first. Poe isn't saying he wants A running back - he's saying he wants Barkley because he thinks he's the best football player in the draft. The irony is that a lot of people jumping all over his opinion are pretty reluctant to announce THE QB by name as well as the part about why he's the better solution.
Since you mentioned the league has changed, what makes a blazing fast 230 lb RB that caught 54 passes for 632 yards (almost 12 ypc) and 3 TDs on top of 1251 yards rushing at 5.9 ypc and 18 TDs just a dime a dozen? This is also supposed to be a deep QB draft where many scouts and draft analysts see equivalent values in the top 3-4 QB prospects.
Do you know what team had the biggest record improvement in the entire NFL last year? It was Jacksonville. They sucked so bad in 2016 that their horrible record earned them the right to draft #4 overall. After drafting RB Leonard Fournette at #4 overall (and losing their best WR to IR) they suddenly made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game. To get there, they beat Pittsburgh 45-42. There's other teams with promising first round RBs like the LA Rams (Gurley) and Dallas Cowboys (Zeke). In all 3 cases, the RBs helped their young QBs qualify for a post season.
After the QB position - what skill position touches the ball most frequently? There was a time we never lost sight of this. Then again here's parts of the tradition reminding us why we shouldn't: Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, Mike Pruitt, Kevin Mack, Earnest Byner, Leroy Hoard. We also had other RBs to complement them like: Bobby Mitchell, Calvin Hill, Herman Fontenot, Cleo Miller, Curtis Dickey, Eric Metcalf, etc... Just in case people think football has changed so much, our RB position combined for 122 receptions in 1986 when we went 12-4. That was Lindy Infante's first year here as OC (hard to believe that was 32 years ago already).
Leonard fournette wasn’t the difference in Jacksonville, in fact, he was out produced by 2 3rd rounders. Am I to believe the jaguars wouldn’t have had a good season with Kareem Hunt?
The “most of these QBs are equal” take is a fan/media take. This FO will end their evaluation with a clear cut favorite, just like every other FO.
The Browns haven’t picked the top qb since 1999, which isn’t the same as whiffing on the scraps in the late 1st round.
Even if Barkley is the best RB in NFL history, he won’t do Sheet for a team that doesn’t have a QB. He can put up great numbers for the next 12 years and go 9-7, because RB is indeed a low value/easy to fill position.
But most importantly of all:
the Browns didn’t go 0-16 to let other teams determine which QB will be available for them. They’re in the driver seat and they’re not going to cower in fear like the fans who have PTSD. this FO has experience scouting and drafting successful QBs and will step up to the plate and go all in on the 1 player they believe is best for the Browns.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with this conversation. The league has proven, conclusively, that highly drafted RBs have zero correlation with success, that it’s a position that can be filled at any point in the draft/FA and has the shortest shelf life.
Every year the super bowl winner has a good qb a good defense and a running back that the entire league passed on 5-7 times.
Even if Barkley is the best RB in NFL history, he won’t do Sheet for a team that doesn’t have a QB. He can put up great numbers for the next 12 years and go 9-7, because RB is indeed a low value/easy to fill position.
But most importantly of all:
the Browns didn’t go 0-16 to let other teams determine which QB will be available for them.
Every year the super bowl winner has a good qb a good defense and a running back that the entire league passed on 5-7 times.
Well done Royce! About a month ago I was pointing a lot of this stuff out to Poe. I'm back to where I was before I started overthinking the crap outta this stuff.
I think NYJ moving up ended any temptations to go anywhere else but QB at #1 if there were any in the first place.
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@pog1fan said:
We should definitely take Barkley.
WOOF WOOF!!
With the #33rd pick...I agree.
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I'm beginning to think that it's time for a new one, (I'll check with Tour first). Groundhog Day indeed. I hope Po realizes (probably not) no one is even bothering to watch the 100th or so Saquon tribute video he's posting anymore. SO DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME POSTING THEM PO, LALALA, WE'RE NOT WATCHING!!! The only reason he still gets reponses is because his posts are so histerically over the top.
Nah... this one thread is not Groundhog Day. A new thread a Day would be Groundhog Day.
As for closing this tread and allowing another to start... I fail to see how that accomplishes anything, but as long as Po is free to start a new Barkley thread, I'm cool either way.
Nah... this one thread is not Groundhog Day. A new thread a Day would be Groundhog Day.
As for closing this thread and allowing another to start... I fail to see how that accomplishes anything, but as long as Po is free to start a new Barkley thread, I'm cool either way.
OK, let me explain... (i think) the next Barkley thread will only be the 4th. How many times did Bill Murray wake up to the same Groundhog Day? Bet it was more than that.
Actually- there's a practical reason for locking a thread. This one has gone 20 pages, and almost 500 replies. Should we get a drive by visitor\lurker, do you really think they're going to bother to wade through 20 pages of the same stuff? On "The Other Board" that I can't mention by name- the Moderators routinely lock threads that get to this length and are going nowhere fast.
So yes, I'll respect your take and Po is free to continue his (all too repetitive) Barkley love unabated in a new thread. Problem is, by my count, the draft is still 38 days away- and everything that can be said about Saquon has already been beaten into the ground- for the umpteenth time. Po's actually doing the board a disservice continuing spewing how great Saquon is- because I'd bet 95%+ of our posters already have their minds made up about him one way or another. He just can't help himself, and has no clue when enough is enough already.
I'll leave this thread open until tomorrow when I get up- which isn't early, but the New Saquon thread will be up in a few minutes, I'm open for suggestions to rename it. After the draft- I may do as Zombo did with the Johnny Football posts and merge everything Barkley, and it will be plain how over the top how the pronouncement about one particular player really is...
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Nah... this one thread is not Groundhog Day. A new thread a Day would be Groundhog Day.
As for closing this thread and allowing another to start... I fail to see how that accomplishes anything, but as long as Po is free to start a new Barkley thread, I'm cool either way.
OK, let me explain... (i think) the next Barkley thread will only be the 4th. How many times did Bill Murray wake up to the same Groundhog Day? Bet it was more than that.
Actually- there's a practical reason for locking a thread. This one has gone 20 pages, and almost 500 replies. Should we get a drive by visitor\lurker, do you really think they're going to bother to wade through 20 pages of the same stuff? On "The Other Board" that I can't mention by name- the Moderators routinely lock threads that get to this length and are going nowhere fast.
So yes, I'll respect your take and Po is free to continue his (all too repetitive) Barkley love unabated in a new thread. Problem is, by my count, the draft is still 38 days away- and everything that can be said about Saquon has already been beaten into the ground- for the umpteenth time. Po's actually doing the board a disservice continuing spewing how great Saquon is- because I'd bet 95%+ of our posters already have their minds made up about him one way or another. He just can't help himself, and has no clue when enough is enough already.
I'll leave this thread open until tomorrow when I get up- which isn't early, but the New Saquon thread will be up in a few minutes, I'm open for suggestions to rename it. After the draft- I may do as Zombo did with the Johnny Football posts and merge everything Barkley, and it will be plain how over the top how the pronouncement about one particular player really is...
OK, let me explain... (i think) the next Barkley thread will only be the 4th. How many times did Bill Murray wake up to the same Groundhog Day? Bet it was more than that.
Actually- there's a practical reason for locking a thread. This one has gone 20 pages, and almost 500 replies. Should we get a drive by visitor\lurker, do you really think they're going to bother to wade through 20 pages of the same stuff? On "The Other Board" that I can't mention by name- the Moderators routinely lock threads that get to this length and are going nowhere fast.
So yes, I'll respect your take and Po is free to continue his (all too repetitive) Barkley love unabated in a new thread. Problem is, by my count, the draft is still 38 days away- and everything that can be said about Saquon has already been beaten into the ground- for the umpteenth time. Po's actually doing the board a disservice continuing spewing how great Saquon is- because I'd bet 95%+ of our posters already have their minds made up about him one way or another. He just can't help himself, and has no clue when enough is enough already.
I'll leave this thread open until tomorrow when I get up- which isn't early, but the New Saquon thread will be up in a few minutes, I'm open for suggestions to rename it. After the draft- I may do as Zombo did with the Johnny Football posts and merge everything Barkley, and it will be plain how over the top how the pronouncement about one particular player really is...
Of course, you could suspend Po for a while....give him a time out ....and the rest of us a breather from his constant harangue. But, yes, I understand that that would not be fair. He has done nothing wrong except to bore all of us to tears.
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