From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen
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Furthermore - the only two times rosen had to play a team away game, in cold climates late in OCT/NOV...
he lost 44-23 to Washington, and 48017 in Utah.
vs Washington, rosen was 12 of 21 for only 91 yards, 4 sacks, 1 TD. He had 8 rushing attempts, for -19 yards net.
vs Utah, he didn't play, had a concussion.
Drafting rosen when he had to play up north and miserably failed for the Browns makes no sense at all.
So, you're using stats in a game he got pulled with an injury and another game that he wasn't even playing in as proof he can't play in the cold? Got it.
What makes less sense is expecting a QB who averaged 56% for 164.72 yds a game will miraculously be accurate and throw for huge yards in the pros where the windows are tighter and the game's way faster. Wyoming winning 8 games is certainly not all because of a QB who throws just 24-25 times a game. If he was that "AMAZING" he'd be throwing 40-50 times a game and their offense would be centered around him, don't you think? Allen might have a powerful arm, but that's not nearly enough in the NFL. He's got a long way to go, and #1 picks usually aren't guys with a lot of work needed.
You seem to gloss over the fact that UCLA defense allowed 36.8 PPG, and Wyoming allowed 17.8. Wyoming only scored 23.5 PPG and UCLA scored 32.5 PPG. The narrative of "Allen wins games and Rosen loses games" is a bunch of crap.
Stats and full game film will never be on your side when comparing Allen to anyone. It's like taking a butter knife to a gunfight.
So, you're using stats in a game he got pulled with an injury and another game that he wasn't even playing in as proof he can't play in the cold? Got it.
Stats and full game film will never be on your side when comparing Allen to anyone. It's like taking a butter knife to a gunfight.
Snowflake only likes to use stats when they fit his argument. He doesn't like the stats that Allen put up against the top competition that they faced because it makes his boy look bad and blames it on the rest of the team, not the guy leading that team at the most important position.
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bs. I'm not against stats, I say to ONLY GO BY CONCRETE STATS is a bunch of hooey. That is how mistakes are made in the draft.
The intangibles are extremely important, sissy markie - even tour probably knows it.... but you ignore intangibles because the other top qb's HAVE THEM, and rosen has ..."perfect pocket passer".
Goff was far, far and away a superior candidate compared to Goff. He loves the game, etc.
rosen is jimmy clausen - he won't have many veterans believe in him if he keeps whining after he gets his first contract.
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So, you're using stats in a game he got pulled with an injury and another game that he wasn't even playing in as proof he can't play in the cold? Got it.
Stats and full game film will never be on your side when comparing Allen to anyone. It's like taking a butter knife to a gunfight.
Snowflake only likes to use stats when they fit his argument. He doesn't like the stats that Allen put up against the top competition that they faced because it makes his boy look bad and blames it on the rest of the team, not the guy leading that team at the most important position.
So, you're using stats in a game he got pulled with an injury and another game that he wasn't even playing in as proof he can't play in the cold? Got it.
wrong. I'm showing that does NOT show he can play in the cold. Maybe he had a concussion, or maybe he said he did because he was failing, and he deserves better than to struggle in a game.
You see that completion rate? ROSEN was 12 of 21? Guess what percentage that is. 57 percent. Well, golly gee, what in the HELL happened to the super duper perfect passer? He played in the cold, he sucked. You use stats to demean Allen, at least admit that rosen had a very bad game, the only one he played in cool/cold weather.
When the chips were down, rosen only completed 57 % of his passes. He isn't the superhuman you completion percentage wonks think he is.
There's some facts for ya.
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so the bar changes in favor of rosen every time. Rosen played with a lot of seniors. Allen did not.
Rosen played with a LT that will go in the first round. Allen did not. Allen led his underdog team to the bowl game,
and rocked it - they WON. Allen rocked the ...second half...of the senior bowl.
and, ROSEN GOT HIS HEAD COACH FIRED as his qb.... of course it isn't all on rosen...maybe, but that is how it would
be said if it was Allen.
rosen was so good his head coach was fired. LOL
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bs. I'm not against stats, I say to ONLY GO BY CONCRETE STATS is a bunch of hooey. That is how mistakes are made in the draft.
The intangibles are extremely important, sissy markie - even tour probably knows it.... but you ignore intangibles because the other top qb's HAVE THEM, and rosen has ..."perfect pocket passer".
Goff was far, far and away a superior candidate compared to Goff. He loves the game, etc.
rosen is jimmy clausen - he won't have many veterans believe in him if he keeps whining after he gets his first contract.
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so the bar changes in favor of rosen every time. Rosen played with a lot of seniors. Allen did not.
Rosen played with a LT that will go in the first round. Allen did not. Allen led his underdog team to the bowl game,
and rocked it - they WON. Allen rocked the ...second half...of the senior bowl.
and, ROSEN GOT HIS HEAD COACH FIRED as his qb.... of course it isn't all on rosen...maybe, but that is how it would
be said if it was Allen.
rosen was so good his head coach was fired. LOL
so the bar changes in favor of rosen every time. Rosen played with a lot of seniors. Allen did not.
Rosen played with a LT that will go in the first round. Allen did not. Allen led his underdog team to the bowl game,
and rocked it - they WON. Allen rocked the ...second half...of the senior bowl.
and, ROSEN GOT HIS HEAD COACH FIRED as his qb.... of course it isn't all on rosen...maybe, but that is how it would
be said if it was Allen.
rosen was so good his head coach was fired. LOL
Maybe you saw it in another thread, maybe not. Mora got fired because he couldn't develop talent. (Bret Hundley) That Rosen was solely responsible for getting his coach fired is complete BS.
The bar changes in favor of Rosen every time, um because he's a better prospect. Your broken record is something that can't be quantified- intangibles, which have largely been debunked.
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well, why don't we end the repetitive ping pong biz, and we'll see how the draft goes. Darnold or Allen for the Browns, says I.
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I've seen enough of Dorsey and I trust his track record enough to trust him on his #1 pick whoever it is. Unless it's Barkley.
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New day... time to play...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Good tweet to leave in summary...
Jordan ZirmVerified account @clevezirm
as we continue to debate Josh Allen, my mind always comes back to this blurb from the excellent
@BenjaminSolak
9:33 AM - 5 Apr 2018"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Tour - you have just been treated to the equivalent of a twitter storm from a desperate man needing to convince that a turd is not really a turd, it's just great fertilizer.
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Peter Kind is a far more excellent source than Tour's alterego
https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/4/3/17193310/peter-king-links-josh-allen-to-browns-nfl-draft
MMQB’s Peter King switched on the rumor mill, links Josh Allen to Browns
The Cleveland Browns aren’t likely to pass taking a quarterback with the first overall pick, and now a John Dorsey-adjacent source thinks Josh Allen is the selection.
By Andrea Hangst Apr 3, 2018, 1:24pm EDTCount the MMQB’s Peter King among the speculators. In this week’s column, he provided insight on the Browns’ plans for the No. 1 pick, and he’s landed on one prospective pro passer: Oh yes, it’s Wyoming’s Josh Allen.
According to King, some degree of friend of Browns general manager John Dorsey believes that Dorsey’s plans are to take Allen at No. 1 (and Penn State running back Saquon Barkley at No. 4). This “Friend of Dorsey,” as King termed it, reportedly said, “I would be surprised if he traded down... This would be his chance to take his two offensive cornerstones for the next eight or 10 years.”
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lol... my ego is unaltered... and a source close to Dorsey should know, not think...
Even Hue knows the truth of it...
But Jackson said last week -- and has said before -- that although a quarterback can improve fundamentally, he usually is what he is when it comes to completion percentage.
"I think you said it, you never feel like that that's something that you can just totally fix," Jackson said. "I think you can help improve it, but fix it, that's kind of hard to do. But at the same time, I watched him improve with some fundamentals that he needed to work on to give himself a chance to be more accurate."
Also from the article:
- Allen also did not have a high percentage of passes dropped. Wyoming's 4.2 drop percentage was barely higher than the national average of 4.1 and less than UCLA's 6.3 for Rosen.
- Pro Football Focus' analytics and stats show that Allen's 56 percent number had little to do with the talent around him. PFF reports that Allen completed just 13 of 42 passes thrown downfield (more than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage) and 1-of-13 when throwing deep to the right. PFF eliminated drops, spikes, balls knocked down and throws affected by the pass rush, and Allen completed 65.7 percent, which ranked 86th in the country. He was 51.4 percent against pressure (79th) and 71.8 percent from a "clean" pocket (72nd).
- Football Outsiders is another analytics site that has developed its own metric, which is called QBase, and it has been accurate in predicting how a quarterback will transfer to the NFL. Allen receives the lowest grade by far of the top draftable quarterbacks, and the site calls his arm "a howitzer without a target."
Then there's...
The Sub-60 Percent Club
Quarterbacks drafted in the past 10 years (Rounds 1-3) who had a career completion rate below 60 percent in college:
Year Player College Pct. Pro Pct. NFL W-L and status * - has not played; **- six passes Note: Dolphins' Pat White not included because he was drafted as WildDawg quarterback 2016 Christian Hackenberg 56.1 NP* 0-0, with Jets 2016 Jacoby Brissett 59.5 59.2 4-12, with Colts 2011 Jake Locker 54.0 57.5 9-14, out of league 2011 Colin Kaepernick 58.2 59.7 28-30, out of league 2011 Ryan Mallett 57.8 55.1 3-5, unsigned free agent 2009 Matt Stafford 57.1 62.0 60-65, Lions starter 2009 Josh Freeman 59.1 57.6 25-36, out of league 2008 Matt Ryan 59.9 64.9 96-63, Falcons starter 2008 Chad Henne 59.7 58.3 18-35, Chiefs backup 2008 Kevin O'Connell 57.7 66.7** 0-0, out of league "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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