From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen
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Allen simply isn't the pragmatic pick.
In the NFL world, (especially for the Browns) why would I take a QB that's is already a 50/50, and potentially hurt my own team by taking that 50/50 chance on a QB with lower odds to succeed based on 80+% of QB's NOT finding greater accuracy and anticipation in the pro's?
Can anyone, even Cal, argue against that logic?
Allen simply isn't the pragmatic pick.
In the NFL world, (especially for the Browns) why would I take a QB that's is already a 50/50, and potentially hurt my own team by taking that 50/50 chance on a QB with lower odds to succeed based on 80+% of QB's NOT finding greater accuracy and anticipation in the pro's?
Can anyone, even Cal, argue against that logic?
I don't dispute that all have at least one flaw or another.
May some develop into successful NFL quarterbacks, possibly. Any can't miss quarterbacks doubt it. Franchise quarterbacks like Elway, Aikman, Marino, Rodgers, Brees and others, eh who knows.
The current NFL QB situation has created a feeding frenzy for experienced or even rookie candidates.
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Allen simply isn't the pragmatic pick.
In the NFL world, (especially for the Browns) why would I take a QB that's is already a 50/50, and potentially hurt my own team by taking that 50/50 chance on a QB with lower odds to succeed based on 80+% of QB's NOT finding greater accuracy and anticipation in the pro's?
Can anyone, even Cal, argue against that logic?
I don't dispute that all have at least one flaw or another.
May some develop into successful NFL quarterbacks, possibly. Any can't miss quarterbacks doubt it. Franchise quarterbacks like Elway, Aikman, Marino, Rodgers, Brees and others, eh who knows.
The current NFL QB situation has created a feeding frenzy for experienced or even rookie candidates.
I don't dispute that all have at least one flaw or another.
May some develop into successful NFL quarterbacks, possibly. Any can't miss quarterbacks doubt it. Franchise quarterbacks like Elway, Aikman, Marino, Rodgers, Brees and others, eh who knows.
The current NFL QB situation has created a feeding frenzy for experienced or even rookie candidates.
Tour said it best, they're ALL possible... but you don't want to go on that. Who is more 'probable' is the pick.
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I think Ghoulie made a good point about them being running QB's in college and not learning from the pocket.. Everything looks like its on the move...
Actually often in high school and college they are the better or best athletes on the team so they give them the most important job on the field.....quarterback.
Just look at Ohio State for one example.
Actually often in high school and college they are the better or best athletes on the team so they give them the most important job on the field.....quarterback.
Just look at Ohio State for one example.
It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
As a great football player's mother would have said: "THE SPREAD OFFENSE IS THE DEVIL!"
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I don't dispute that all have at least one flaw or another.
May some develop into successful NFL quarterbacks, possibly. Any can't miss quarterbacks doubt it. Franchise quarterbacks like Elway, Aikman, Marino, Rodgers, Brees and others, eh who knows.
The current NFL QB situation has created a feeding frenzy for experienced or even rookie candidates.
Tour said it best, they're ALL possible... but you don't want to go on that. Who is more 'probable' is the pick.
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Actually often in high school and college they are the better or best athletes on the team so they give them the most important job on the field.....quarterback.
Just look at Ohio State for one example.
It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
As a great football player's mother would have said: "THE SPREAD OFFENSE IS THE DEVIL!"
It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
As a great football player's mother would have said: "THE SPREAD OFFENSE IS THE DEVIL!"
The 'spread' itself is mainly just an offensive philosophy meant to remove the extra defender out of the box through formation(s). Usually by having your outside receivers with wide(r) than traditional splits and the traditional inline TE as a slot WR or removed from the line. You can run these concepts with a traditional passer or mobile passer. This of course is all X's and O's theory, doesn't always work out that way as the evolution of the modern defense has countered with athletic ability and disguises to creep up the extra defender late. Tour is the Oline guy here and sure, light box counts do help the stress of playing line, you still have to execute. Given how advanced the running game has become with reads, veers, sweeps, inverted looks, motions, etc etc... pulling a lineman that pulls frequently has to suck. Tape for eval doesn't seem like it would be as hard to pour through. He's been spot on about several of his calls, big ones that come to mind are Erving and Schreff from Iowa.
Evaluating QB's on the other hand.... that remains a chore either way.
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Actually often in high school and college they are the better or best athletes on the team so they give them the most important job on the field.....quarterback.
Just look at Ohio State for one example.
It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
As a great football player's mother would have said: "THE SPREAD OFFENSE IS THE DEVIL!"
It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
As a great football player's mother would have said: "THE SPREAD OFFENSE IS THE DEVIL!"
Kind of takes you back to the wishbone or triple option days remember the old Oklahoma teams among others?
Nothing much new in football really except maybe the rules.
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It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
As a great football player's mother would have said: "THE SPREAD OFFENSE IS THE DEVIL!"
Kind of takes you back to the wishbone or triple option days remember the old Oklahoma teams among others?
Nothing much new in football really except maybe the rules.
Kind of takes you back to the wishbone or triple option days remember the old Oklahoma teams among others?
Nothing much new in football really except maybe the rules.
In some ways, yes. Hell, I see some similarity between todays Read/Option offenses and the old wingback offenses of the 1920s/30s.
The football program I was involved with years ago still ran the Wing T offense, which is pretty prehistoric.
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Kind of takes you back to the wishbone or triple option days remember the old Oklahoma teams among others?
Nothing much new in football really except maybe the rules.
In some ways, yes. Hell, I see some similarity between todays Read/Option offenses and the old wingback offenses of the 1920s/30s.
The football program I was involved with years ago still ran the Wing T offense, which is pretty prehistoric.
In some ways, yes. Hell, I see some similarity between todays Read/Option offenses and the old wingback offenses of the 1920s/30s.
The football program I was involved with years ago still ran the Wing T offense, which is pretty prehistoric.
Was that B.D. or A.D. (before dinosaurs or after dinosaurs).
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In some ways, yes. Hell, I see some similarity between todays Read/Option offenses and the old wingback offenses of the 1920s/30s.
The football program I was involved with years ago still ran the Wing T offense, which is pretty prehistoric.
Was that B.D. or A.D. (before dinosaurs or after dinosaurs).
Was that B.D. or A.D. (before dinosaurs or after dinosaurs).
Oh I thought you were going to say Before Disco or After Disco.
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I don't dispute that all have at least one flaw or another.
May some develop into successful NFL quarterbacks, possibly. Any can't miss quarterbacks doubt it. Franchise quarterbacks like Elway, Aikman, Marino, Rodgers, Brees and others, eh who knows.
The current NFL QB situation has created a feeding frenzy for experienced or even rookie candidates.
Tour said it best, they're ALL possible... but you don't want to go on that. Who is more 'probable' is the pick.
Thread is winding down when misplaced "hate" and "haters" becomes the primary defense. As is typical here it's the claim of the person who attacks a prospects character cast at those who question performance.
Tour said it best, they're ALL possible... but you don't want to go on that. Who is more 'probable' is the pick.
Yup... every team let alone us "amateurs" think they know who the booms and busts will be... or at least have a favorite... and on average at least half are wrong. There's no reason to compromise your probability of success by backing a prospect with a "special cause" in play.
It's the proliferation of the spread offense, which emphasizes a QB with athleticism over a QB who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and make the proper throw.
The spread offense is also the reason its more difficult to scout college OLinemen too, specifically in their ability to get in a traditional three-point stance and move a defender off the LOS in the run game.
Agree it's the spread, but slightly different take on why... and it's not my take although I forget who I first heard it from... may have been Dilfer.
Pressure to win in college and early departure of stars for the pros have combined to reduce the time college HC's have to teach and develop QBs, but pure run attacks are less successful (and sexy) than they once were. The solution? Dumb down the offense with the RPO where you set up the QB with a simple, one-defender read a few yards from his nose and off that create single target "options" in the passing game. Then add in facts such as pace of the game which carries the double benefit of replacing run-pounding as a means of wearing down a D and allowing play-clock time for the sideline to call adjustments. The latter of course is another duty that formerly resided with "trained" QBs.
I think it's easy to see that the above changes increase the value of "athletic" QBs. However, when one comes along that has received the training and has shown the aptitude to fill a more traditional QB role, if they do not gravitate to schools featuring more traditional Offenses, then we see programs changing to accommodate the talent.
Kind of takes you back to the wishbone or triple option days remember the old Oklahoma teams among others?
Others including Bill Yeoman's "Veer"... one of the most potent college run-attack offenses ever.
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In some ways, yes. Hell, I see some similarity between todays Read/Option offenses and the old wingback offenses of the 1920s/30s.
The football program I was involved with years ago still ran the Wing T offense, which is pretty prehistoric.
Was that B.D. or A.D. (before dinosaurs or after dinosaurs).
Was that B.D. or A.D. (before dinosaurs or after dinosaurs).
I think it was A.D. (I'm not THAT old
) but the Wing T was pretty damn successful for Massillon Perry for years under Coach Wakefield.
It was an interesting offensive system, but a limited one.
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Dan OrlovskyVerified account @danorlovsky7
There’s a difference between being a thrower and playing QB in the #NFL. Josh Allen’s “acccuracy” doesn’t concern me, BUT,
THIS DOES! @DawgsByNature@DawgPoundNation@EverythingNYG@JetsInsider#NFLDraft2018#browns#NYGiants#NYJ1:53139K views3:45 AM - 9 Apr 2018"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Dan OrlovskyVerified account @danorlovsky7
There’s a difference between being a thrower and playing QB in the #NFL. Josh Allen’s “acccuracy” doesn’t concern me, BUT,THIS DOES! @DawgsByNature@DawgPoundNation@EverythingNYG@JetsInsider#NFLDraft2018#browns#NYGiants#NYJ1:53139K views3:45 AM - 9 Apr 2018Dan OrlovskyVerified account @danorlovsky7
There’s a difference between being a thrower and playing QB in the #NFL. Josh Allen’s “acccuracy” doesn’t concern me, BUT,THIS DOES! @DawgsByNature@DawgPoundNation@EverythingNYG@JetsInsider#NFLDraft2018#browns#NYGiants#NYJ1:53139K views3:45 AM - 9 Apr 2018Great analysis.
Cal... your rebuttal?
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http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/la-sp-ucla-football-20171018-story.html
Rosen will try to rebound from a game in which he completed 20 of 43 passes for a season-low 219 yards, appearing out of rhythm from the Bruins' opening possession. He badly underthrew receiver Darren Andrews on one play and wildly overthrew receiver Jordan Lasley on another.
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The josh allen pic? doesn't work. don't care. One play in one game. cool.
Rosencrap is still not going to be drafted by the Browns.
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Dan OrlovskyVerified account @danorlovsky7
There’s a difference between being a thrower and playing QB in the #NFL. Josh Allen’s “acccuracy” doesn’t concern me, BUT,THIS DOES! @DawgsByNature@DawgPoundNation@EverythingNYG@JetsInsider#NFLDraft2018#browns#NYGiants#NYJ1:53139K views3:45 AM - 9 Apr 2018Great analysis.
Cal... your rebuttal?
Great analysis.
Cal... your rebuttal?
Hoorta's observation- Befuddled by a blitz....
The josh allen pic? doesn't work. don't care. One play in one game. cool.
Rosencrap is still not going to be drafted by the Browns.
Boo-hoo, if you click the link to Twitter, the video will play. To refresh your memory Orlovsky was a backup QB in the NFL for 10+ years, he sort of knows what he's talking about.
This wasn't an isolated instance according to Dan, where he wasn't processing what the defense was showing him- it was a regular occurrence. Add in some really erratic passing, I just don't see how any scout or GM that's been breaking down film on Allen can see him as the #1 overall pick.
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Great analysis.
Cal... your rebuttal?
Hoorta's observation- Befuddled by a blitz....
The josh allen pic? doesn't work. don't care. One play in one game. cool.
Rosencrap is still not going to be drafted by the Browns.
Boo-hoo, if you click the link to Twitter, the video will play. To refresh your memory Orlovsky was a backup QB in the NFL for 10+ years, he sort of knows what he's talking about.
This wasn't an isolated instance according to Dan, where he wasn't processing what the defense was showing him- it was a regular occurrence. Add in some really erratic passing, I just don't see how any scout or GM that's been breaking down film on Allen can see him as the #1 overall pick.
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@calfoxwc said:
boo hoo yourself, I did click on the link, and the video played so slowly I gave up on it. Maybe you would like to have your boy Danny go look and critique your idol rosenbum's Arizona game LIKE I POSTED. It isn't just me that sees that Allen should be a top pick, so you can take that and shove it. and have a nice day.
Listen up FOR THE LAST TIME don't lump me in with some of the others that somehow in your warped way of thinking- I'm a big Rosen fan. Just because I think Allen is a huge bust waiting to happen doesn't mean somehow I'm in love with Rosen.
Your as bad defending Allen as Po is pumping Barkley. At least Po doesn't rag on other prospects. All you can do is rag on Rosen- every time someone posts something negative about your hero, and if he's not- suck it up Cal. I'm getting damn tired of Rosen bashing in an ALLEN thread.
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Whatever QB we take remember one thing ....we have the great QB whisperer Uncle Fester as head coach ...... all will be well
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@calfoxwc said:
boo hoo yourself, I did click on the link, and the video played so slowly I gave up on it. Maybe you would like to have your boy Danny go look and critique your idol rosenbum's Arizona game LIKE I POSTED. It isn't just me that sees that Allen should be a top pick, so you can take that and shove it. and have a nice day.
Listen up FOR THE LAST TIME don't lump me in with some of the others that somehow in your warped way of thinking- I'm a big Rosen fan. Just because I think Allen is a huge bust waiting to happen doesn't mean somehow I'm in love with Rosen.
Your as bad defending Allen as Po is pumping Barkley. At least Po doesn't rag on other prospects. All you can do is rag on Rosen- every time someone posts something negative about your hero, and if he's not- suck it up Cal. I'm getting damn tired of Rosen bashing in an ALLEN thread.
Listen up FOR THE LAST TIME don't lump me in with some of the others that somehow in your warped way of thinking- I'm a big Rosen fan. Just because I think Allen is a huge bust waiting to happen doesn't mean somehow I'm in love with Rosen.
Your as bad defending Allen as Po is pumping Barkley. At least Po doesn't rag on other prospects. All you can do is rag on Rosen- every time someone posts something negative about your hero, and if he's not- suck it up Cal. I'm getting damn tired of Rosen bashing in an ALLEN thread.
have nice day, I'm tired of all the bashing of Allen all over the place by a few haters. You aren't tired of that - so be it.
I'm busy, you stick you nose into a discussion - you don't help matters. I have tomatoes to plant. I'm out of ways to convince you that you are wrong - FOR THE LAST TIME - LET'S JUST WAIT TIL THE FREAKING DRAFT. The anti-Allen bitching is boring.
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Listen up FOR THE LAST TIME don't lump me in with some of the others that somehow in your warped way of thinking- I'm a big Rosen fan. Just because I think Allen is a huge bust waiting to happen doesn't mean somehow I'm in love with Rosen.
Your as bad defending Allen as Po is pumping Barkley. At least Po doesn't rag on other prospects. All you can do is rag on Rosen- every time someone posts something negative about your hero, and if he's not- suck it up Cal. I'm getting damn tired of Rosen bashing in an ALLEN thread.
have nice day, I'm tired of all the bashing of Allen all over the place by a few haters. You aren't tired of that - so be it.
I'm busy, you stick you nose into a discussion - you don't help matters. I have tomatoes to plant. I'm out of ways to convince you that you are wrong - FOR THE LAST TIME - LET'S JUST WAIT TIL THE FREAKING DRAFT. The anti-Allen bitching is boring.
....have nice day,
- FOR THE LAST TIME - LET'S JUST WAIT TIL THE FREAKING DRAFT. The anti-Allen bitching is boring.
And anti Rosun, Darnold, Mayfield, other quarterbacks yet unknown and even Barkley.
Sheeeesh you'd think this is a presidential campaign.
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