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  • FlugelF Flugel

    @westside-steve said:

    http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/04/cleveland_browns_debating_baker_mayfield.html

    Steve, I really like Pluto even though he really never explained what specific football event with a defense on the field changed his mind about Allen. And while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

    I think we have 3 really good QBs we can choose from and Josh Allen isn't 1 of them.  I've been wrong before but I'm usually right when I feel a QB is getting way overrated.  When there's defenses on the field - Josh Allen wasn't getting ANY interest from Major DI programs whatsoever.  And in 2016 he threw 15 INTs against 2nd rate DBs and pass rushers while he only threw a ho-hum 16 TD passes in 2017.  What am I missing here? 

    Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
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    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
    #9

    In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

    Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

    This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

    @flugel said:

    ... while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

    Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    Dutch OvenD hoortaH ballpeenB 3 Replies Last reply
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    • TexasAg1969 T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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      T TexasAg1969 wrote on last edited by
      #10

      Well Brees was not even Brees immediately. It took time to be the consummate pro that could pick apart a defense. Mayfield might have the ability to become that kind of QB if given time. But then again so could the taller Rosen who already has been playing in a pro offense. I just wish he had not already had so many concussions.

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      • PoeticG PoeticGP Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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        PoeticGP PoeticG wrote on last edited by
        #11

        Hmmm... What would be the perfect draft? There are multiple ways about accomplishing this- however, every one of them include picking Saquon Barkley #1 Overall. Just as you all agreed last year, you can't pass on talent like Garrett- you now can't pass on what I believe is an even greater IMPACT player in Saquon Barkley.

        So here's my shot at a perfect draft

        Option 1- 

        1- Barkley

        4- Mayfield

        -then take the best players at the top of the 2nd that fall out of the first round because teams drafted for NEED instead of BPA.

        We'll go into the season with the best WRs and RBs the NFL has to offer. An intriguing veteran QB and an up and comer in the wings. BPA in the 2nd should give us someftr impact players at other key areas and we should expect no less than playoff contention next year.

        Option 2 -

        Saquon Barkley #1

        Bradley Chubb #4

        -Trade our 2nd round and possibly more to get back into the the top 10 to get one of the other Qbs that we like. Mainly one of the top 4 guys if they fall a little. 

        - If the Browns don't take a QB at 1 or 4, there should be one left for us to trade back up to get.

        Option 3- 

        #1 Barkley

        #4 Chubb

        #33 Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph 

        - OT/OG/CB best available the rest of the way

        The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain-
        The GipperT hoortaH 2 Replies Last reply
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        • Tour2maT Tour2ma

          In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

          Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

          This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

          @flugel said:

          ... while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

          Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

          Dutch Oven Dutch OvenD Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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          Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
          #12

          @tour2ma said:

          In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

          Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

          This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

          Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

          I never understood the comparison to Manziel - on the field - to Mayfield either. 

          IMO, a better comp to Manziel would be Penn State's Trace McSorley. 

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          • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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            The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
            #13

            @ghoolie said:

            Thie ideal draft would be to take Barkely at #1, trade down and take Black Tarkenton. It would make me right on the pick, and on BT. I would be unbearable all year long and this board would have no peace.  Zomblow would sew up his vagina.

            Barclays best skill is waving pom-pomsBarclays best skill is waving pom-poms

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            • PoeticGP PoeticG

              Hmmm... What would be the perfect draft? There are multiple ways about accomplishing this- however, every one of them include picking Saquon Barkley #1 Overall. Just as you all agreed last year, you can't pass on talent like Garrett- you now can't pass on what I believe is an even greater IMPACT player in Saquon Barkley.

              So here's my shot at a perfect draft

              Option 1- 

              1- Barkley

              4- Mayfield

              -then take the best players at the top of the 2nd that fall out of the first round because teams drafted for NEED instead of BPA.

              We'll go into the season with the best WRs and RBs the NFL has to offer. An intriguing veteran QB and an up and comer in the wings. BPA in the 2nd should give us someftr impact players at other key areas and we should expect no less than playoff contention next year.

              Option 2 -

              Saquon Barkley #1

              Bradley Chubb #4

              -Trade our 2nd round and possibly more to get back into the the top 10 to get one of the other Qbs that we like. Mainly one of the top 4 guys if they fall a little. 

              - If the Browns don't take a QB at 1 or 4, there should be one left for us to trade back up to get.

              Option 3- 

              #1 Barkley

              #4 Chubb

              #33 Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph 

              - OT/OG/CB best available the rest of the way

              The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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              The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by hoorta
              #14

              @poeticg said:

              Hmmm... What would be the perfect draft? There are multiple ways about accomplishing this- however, every one of them include picking Saquon Barkley #1 Overall. Just as you all agreed last year, you can't pass on talent like Garrett- you now can't pass on what I believe is an even greater IMPACT player in Saquon Barkley.

              So here's my shot at a perfect draft

              Option 1- 

              1- Barkley

              4- Mayfield

              -then take the best players at the top of the 2nd that fall out of the first round because teams drafted for NEED instead of BPA.

              We'll go into the season with the best WRs and RBs the NFL has to offer. An intriguing veteran QB and an up and comer in the wings. BPA in the 2nd should give us someftr impact players at other key areas and we should expect no less than playoff contention next year.

              Option 2 -

              Saquon Barkley #1

              Bradley Chubb #4

              -Trade our 2nd round and possibly more to get back into the the top 10 to get one of the other Qbs that we like. Mainly one of the top 4 guys if they fall a little. 

              - If the Browns don't take a QB at 1 or 4, there should be one left for us to trade back up to get.

              Option 3- 

              #1 Barkley

              #4 Chubb

              #33 Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph 

              - OT/OG/CB best available the rest of the way

              Barkley is nothing but a merengue dancer. He would be better off competing with Torville and Dean in ice dancing

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              • mjp28 mjp28M In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
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                mjp28M mjp28 wrote on last edited by
                #15

                I like to read Pluto the crux of this week's column:

                The rookie quarterback situation is one big crap shoot. But regardless of who is under center they still need someone to throw it to:

                ......You can build the case for Gordon actually having a training camp followed by a regular season for the first time since 2013 getting him in game shape. He dropped only one pass last season, he caught one TD pass. But it's hard to build any plans around Gordon. He still should be viewed as a bonus.

                The other receivers are Corey Coleman, Rashard Higgins and Ricardo Louis. Coleman has broken a hand in each of the last two seasons. According to PFF, he had four drops in nine games. Louis dropped seven passes. Higgins only dropped two passes, but wasn't very productive. No one in that group inspires any confidence....

                More drama than what's on the Young & the Restless every week. Should be an interesting draft and 2018 season. 

                GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
                The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Tour2maT Tour2ma

                  In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

                  Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

                  This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

                  @flugel said:

                  ... while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

                  Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

                  hoorta hoortaH Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                  hoortaH hoorta wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  @tour2ma said:

                  In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

                  Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

                  This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

                  Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

                  Good points- and my reasons for extreme aversion to Mazziel pre-draft were not only the party boy stuff. On field, a large part of Johnny's offense was- when in doubt, chuck it up to Mike Evans in triple coverage, and hope he can make a play on the ball. Or tuck and run if he didn't see anyone open. Accuracy dropped way off rolling to his left. 

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                  • PoeticGP PoeticG

                    Hmmm... What would be the perfect draft? There are multiple ways about accomplishing this- however, every one of them include picking Saquon Barkley #1 Overall. Just as you all agreed last year, you can't pass on talent like Garrett- you now can't pass on what I believe is an even greater IMPACT player in Saquon Barkley.

                    So here's my shot at a perfect draft

                    Option 1- 

                    1- Barkley

                    4- Mayfield

                    -then take the best players at the top of the 2nd that fall out of the first round because teams drafted for NEED instead of BPA.

                    We'll go into the season with the best WRs and RBs the NFL has to offer. An intriguing veteran QB and an up and comer in the wings. BPA in the 2nd should give us someftr impact players at other key areas and we should expect no less than playoff contention next year.

                    Option 2 -

                    Saquon Barkley #1

                    Bradley Chubb #4

                    -Trade our 2nd round and possibly more to get back into the the top 10 to get one of the other Qbs that we like. Mainly one of the top 4 guys if they fall a little. 

                    - If the Browns don't take a QB at 1 or 4, there should be one left for us to trade back up to get.

                    Option 3- 

                    #1 Barkley

                    #4 Chubb

                    #33 Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph 

                    - OT/OG/CB best available the rest of the way

                    hoorta hoortaH Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                    hoortaH hoorta wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    @poeticg said:

                    Hmmm... What would be the perfect draft? There are multiple ways about accomplishing this- however, every one of them include picking Saquon Barkley #1 Overall. Just as you all agreed last year, you can't pass on talent like Garrett- you now can't pass on what I believe is an even greater IMPACT player in Saquon Barkley.

                    So here's my shot at a perfect draft

                    Option 1- 

                    1- Barkley Mayfield

                    4- Mayfield Chubb

                    -then take the best players at the top of the 2nd that fall out of the first round because teams drafted for NEED instead of BPA.

                    We'll go into the season with the best WRs and RBs the NFL has to offer. An intriguing veteran QB and an up and comer in the wings. BPA in the 2nd should give us someftr impact players at other key areas and we should expect no less than playoff contention next year.

                    Option 2 -

                    Saquon Barkley #1 Sam Darnold

                    Bradley Chubb #4

                    -Trade our 2nd round and possibly more to get back into the the top 10 to get one of the other Qbs that we like. Mainly one of the top 4 guys if they fall a little. 

                    - If the Browns don't take a QB at 1 or 4, there should be one left for us to trade back up to get.

                    Option 3- 

                    #1 Barkley Josh Rosen

                    #4 Chubb

                    #33 Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph  Guice, Michel, or Penny

                    - OT/OG/CB best available the rest of the way

                    FIFY.   Still dreaming of Barkley at #1? It's not happening. 

                    PoeticGP 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • hoortaH hoorta

                      @poeticg said:

                      Hmmm... What would be the perfect draft? There are multiple ways about accomplishing this- however, every one of them include picking Saquon Barkley #1 Overall. Just as you all agreed last year, you can't pass on talent like Garrett- you now can't pass on what I believe is an even greater IMPACT player in Saquon Barkley.

                      So here's my shot at a perfect draft

                      Option 1- 

                      1- Barkley Mayfield

                      4- Mayfield Chubb

                      -then take the best players at the top of the 2nd that fall out of the first round because teams drafted for NEED instead of BPA.

                      We'll go into the season with the best WRs and RBs the NFL has to offer. An intriguing veteran QB and an up and comer in the wings. BPA in the 2nd should give us someftr impact players at other key areas and we should expect no less than playoff contention next year.

                      Option 2 -

                      Saquon Barkley #1 Sam Darnold

                      Bradley Chubb #4

                      -Trade our 2nd round and possibly more to get back into the the top 10 to get one of the other Qbs that we like. Mainly one of the top 4 guys if they fall a little. 

                      - If the Browns don't take a QB at 1 or 4, there should be one left for us to trade back up to get.

                      Option 3- 

                      #1 Barkley Josh Rosen

                      #4 Chubb

                      #33 Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph  Guice, Michel, or Penny

                      - OT/OG/CB best available the rest of the way

                      FIFY.   Still dreaming of Barkley at #1? It's not happening. 

                      PoeticG PoeticGP Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                      PoeticGP PoeticG wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      @hoorta said:

                      FIFY.   Still dreaming of Barkley at #1? It's not happening. 

                      You yourself just posted 3 different Qbs that you would consider a perfect draft. Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. You are going to get one at 4 and Camp Barkley is going to get our guy at #1. 

                      This isn't a Sock-measuring competition, both the RB pick and the QB pick are going to be pivot able for our future. Barkley is useful now, and he'll be even more valuable(stronger, faster and smarter)when your guy is ready to step in. It's going to be a win/win for the Browns... don't get caught up in semantics. We can't gift Barkley to the Giants. He's going to be the talk of the NFL all season, and our offense is going to the top!

                      The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain-
                      Dutch OvenD The GipperT hoortaH 3 Replies Last reply
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                      • PoeticGP PoeticG

                        @hoorta said:

                        FIFY.   Still dreaming of Barkley at #1? It's not happening. 

                        You yourself just posted 3 different Qbs that you would consider a perfect draft. Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. You are going to get one at 4 and Camp Barkley is going to get our guy at #1. 

                        This isn't a Sock-measuring competition, both the RB pick and the QB pick are going to be pivot able for our future. Barkley is useful now, and he'll be even more valuable(stronger, faster and smarter)when your guy is ready to step in. It's going to be a win/win for the Browns... don't get caught up in semantics. We can't gift Barkley to the Giants. He's going to be the talk of the NFL all season, and our offense is going to the top!

                        Dutch Oven Dutch OvenD Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                        Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        @poeticg said:

                        You yourself just posted 3 different Qbs that you would consider a perfect draft. Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. You are going to get one at 4 and Camp Barkley is going to get our guy at #1. 

                        This isn't a Sock-measuring competition, both the RB pick and the QB pick are going to be pivot able for our future. Barkley is useful now, and he'll be even more valuable(stronger, faster and smarter)when your guy is ready to step in. It's going to be a win/win for the Browns... don't get caught up in semantics. We can't gift Barkley to the Giants. He's going to be the talk of the NFL all season, and our offense is going to the top!

                        I got $100 that says the Browns don't draft Barkley at #1. Time's a tickin'...

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                        • Orion OrionO Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                          OrionO Orion wrote on last edited by Orion
                          #20

                          We've needed a QB for almost 20 years.  We didn't win ANY games last year because we couldn't throw TD passes.  And yet some say we should draft the best RB in the draft class at #1...and NOT the best QB.  🤔

                          IMO there are only two QB's that we should draft.  Rosen & Darnold.  Neither will be there at pick #4.  But most probably the RB that some will have us draft at #1, will be there at #4.  The RB isn't gonna throw any TD passes.

                          BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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                          • Tour2maT Tour2ma

                            In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

                            Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

                            This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

                            @flugel said:

                            ... while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

                            Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

                            ballpeen ballpeenB Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                            ballpeenB ballpeen wrote on last edited by
                            #21

                            @tour2ma said:

                            In my case at first glance I saw Manziel 2.0 in Mayfield onfield both in play and misguided "competitiveness". And of course Baker's arrest did nothing to dissuade an off-field comparison. However, upon further review...

                            Beyond being "short" onfield they are really nothing alike. The faster, more elusive JFF was the superior scrambler/runner, but Baker is the better QB. Baker simply spent far more time operating within the Offense that he ran. Admittedly Manziel does not set the "within the Offense" bar high, but Mayfield clears it by a wide margin.

                            This is my Mayfield paradox... if he's not going to elude and extend like Manziel, then he's not going to play like Wilson or Talyor, who both are faster and quicker than JFF. So he's going to have to play more like Brees... and I am not sure he's capable of that.

                            Yet he'd be taller than our starter he'd sit behind.

                            My feeling is if Mayfield was a inch or two taller, the only QB discussion would be which QB  gets selected after Baker Mayfield.  I don't let a few inches keep me from selecting the best QB.

                            If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
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                            • FlugelF Flugel

                              @westside-steve said:

                              http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/04/cleveland_browns_debating_baker_mayfield.html

                              Steve, I really like Pluto even though he really never explained what specific football event with a defense on the field changed his mind about Allen. And while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

                              I think we have 3 really good QBs we can choose from and Josh Allen isn't 1 of them.  I've been wrong before but I'm usually right when I feel a QB is getting way overrated.  When there's defenses on the field - Josh Allen wasn't getting ANY interest from Major DI programs whatsoever.  And in 2016 he threw 15 INTs against 2nd rate DBs and pass rushers while he only threw a ho-hum 16 TD passes in 2017.  What am I missing here? 

                              jiggins7919 jiggins7919J Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                              jiggins7919J jiggins7919 wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              @flugel said:

                              Steve, I really like Pluto even though he really never explained what specific football event with a defense on the field changed his mind about Allen. And while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

                              I think we have 3 really good QBs we can choose from and Josh Allen isn't 1 of them.  I've been wrong before but I'm usually right when I feel a QB is getting way overrated.  When there's defenses on the field - Josh Allen wasn't getting ANY interest from Major DI programs whatsoever.  And in 2016 he threw 15 INTs against 2nd rate DBs and pass rushers while he only threw a ho-hum 16 TD passes in 2017.  What am I missing here? 

                              People that are moving to the Josh Allen idea are being swayed by his physical tools, IMO.  I think after watching MONTHS of video, workouts, and game film, after a while...you just start to fall in love with a guy who can throw it a country mile.  The problem is, that doesn't mean SQUAT in the NFL.  I want to know who can THINK the fastest, who can process the quickest, who can get the ball out to the RIGHT GUY consistently, who can deliver it IN STRIDE, and many other qualities that have nothing to do with how much zip the ball has on it.  Josh Allen terrifies me.  Now, for what it's worth, I BELIEVE Josh Allen had the highest Wonderlic test by far out of the top QB prospects.  Something like a 36.  I'm not sure if there's really a correlation to high Wonderlic vs high performance, but I did find it interesting.

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                              • boo fagley B Banned
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                                B boo fagley wrote on last edited by
                                #23

                                The Browns WRs havent shown anything because Kizer couldnt throw the ball to the guys with orange helmets other than Duke and Crowell.

                                2017 Kizer - 22 ints and a 53% completion rate.

                                2017 Taylor - 4 ints and a 63% completion rate.

                                A 59% catch rate was substandard and the low end for the 2017 Buffalo WRs.

                                A 59% catch rate would have been outstanding and the pinnacle for the 2017 Cleveland WRs. No Browns WR with more than 5 passing attempts came close to 59%.

                                I will bet money that there will be improvement with the WRs besides Gordon already on the roster.

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                                • jiggins7919J jiggins7919

                                  @flugel said:

                                  Steve, I really like Pluto even though he really never explained what specific football event with a defense on the field changed his mind about Allen. And while nobody will confuse Mayfield with prototypical size - he's way closer to 6'1" than he is the 5'11" convicted him of.

                                  I think we have 3 really good QBs we can choose from and Josh Allen isn't 1 of them.  I've been wrong before but I'm usually right when I feel a QB is getting way overrated.  When there's defenses on the field - Josh Allen wasn't getting ANY interest from Major DI programs whatsoever.  And in 2016 he threw 15 INTs against 2nd rate DBs and pass rushers while he only threw a ho-hum 16 TD passes in 2017.  What am I missing here? 

                                  People that are moving to the Josh Allen idea are being swayed by his physical tools, IMO.  I think after watching MONTHS of video, workouts, and game film, after a while...you just start to fall in love with a guy who can throw it a country mile.  The problem is, that doesn't mean SQUAT in the NFL.  I want to know who can THINK the fastest, who can process the quickest, who can get the ball out to the RIGHT GUY consistently, who can deliver it IN STRIDE, and many other qualities that have nothing to do with how much zip the ball has on it.  Josh Allen terrifies me.  Now, for what it's worth, I BELIEVE Josh Allen had the highest Wonderlic test by far out of the top QB prospects.  Something like a 36.  I'm not sure if there's really a correlation to high Wonderlic vs high performance, but I did find it interesting.

                                  boo fagley B Banned
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                                  B boo fagley wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  @jiggins7919 said:

                                  People that are moving to the Josh Allen idea are being swayed by his physical tools, IMO.  I think after watching MONTHS of video, workouts, and game film, after a while...you just start to fall in love with a guy who can throw it a country mile.  The problem is, that doesn't mean SQUAT in the NFL.  I want to know who can THINK the fastest, who can process the quickest, who can get the ball out to the RIGHT GUY consistently, who can deliver it IN STRIDE, and many other qualities that have nothing to do with how much zip the ball has on it.  Josh Allen terrifies me.  Now, for what it's worth, I BELIEVE Josh Allen had the highest Wonderlic test by far out of the top QB prospects.  Something like a 36.  I'm not sure if there's really a correlation to high Wonderlic vs high performance, but I did find it interesting.

                                  Mayfields college play means nothing in the NFL too.

                                  Sam Bradford looked like a sure bet too.

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                                  • boo fagley B Banned
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                                    B boo fagley wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    @ghoolie said:

                                    Thie ideal draft would be to take Barkely at #1, trade down and take Black Tarkenton. It would make me right on the pick, and on BT. I would be unbearable all year long and this board would have no peace.  Zomblow would sew up his vagina.

                                    Barkley will be a beast in the right program.

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                                    • darren15D darren15

                                      Is still not a planet .....

                                      Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                      W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by Westside Steve
                                      #26

                                      @darren15 said:

                                      Is still not a planet .....

                                      Yes it is. I don't care what you or any of these stupid scientists say.

                                      Also

                                      St Patrick is, by God, still a saint regardless of the popes anti-irish sentiment.

                                      So there you bastard

                                      WSS

                                      www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
                                      hoortaH GhoolieG 2 Replies Last reply
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                                      • B boo fagley

                                        @jiggins7919 said:

                                        People that are moving to the Josh Allen idea are being swayed by his physical tools, IMO.  I think after watching MONTHS of video, workouts, and game film, after a while...you just start to fall in love with a guy who can throw it a country mile.  The problem is, that doesn't mean SQUAT in the NFL.  I want to know who can THINK the fastest, who can process the quickest, who can get the ball out to the RIGHT GUY consistently, who can deliver it IN STRIDE, and many other qualities that have nothing to do with how much zip the ball has on it.  Josh Allen terrifies me.  Now, for what it's worth, I BELIEVE Josh Allen had the highest Wonderlic test by far out of the top QB prospects.  Something like a 36.  I'm not sure if there's really a correlation to high Wonderlic vs high performance, but I did find it interesting.

                                        Mayfields college play means nothing in the NFL too.

                                        Sam Bradford looked like a sure bet too.

                                        Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                        W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                                        #27

                                        @boo-fagley said:

                                        Mayfields college play means nothing in the NFL too.

                                        Sam Bradford looked like a sure bet too.

                                        Bradford was injury-prone you can't really predict that.

                                        Like Bilgewater.

                                        WSS

                                        www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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                                        • mjp28M mjp28

                                          I like to read Pluto the crux of this week's column:

                                          The rookie quarterback situation is one big crap shoot. But regardless of who is under center they still need someone to throw it to:

                                          ......You can build the case for Gordon actually having a training camp followed by a regular season for the first time since 2013 getting him in game shape. He dropped only one pass last season, he caught one TD pass. But it's hard to build any plans around Gordon. He still should be viewed as a bonus.

                                          The other receivers are Corey Coleman, Rashard Higgins and Ricardo Louis. Coleman has broken a hand in each of the last two seasons. According to PFF, he had four drops in nine games. Louis dropped seven passes. Higgins only dropped two passes, but wasn't very productive. No one in that group inspires any confidence....

                                          More drama than what's on the Young & the Restless every week. Should be an interesting draft and 2018 season. 

                                          The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                                          The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                                          #28

                                          @mjp28 said:

                                          I like to read Pluto the crux of this week's column:

                                          The rookie quarterback situation is one big crap shoot. But regardless of who is under center they still need someone to throw it to:

                                          ......You can build the case for Gordon actually having a training camp followed by a regular season for the first time since 2013 getting him in game shape. He dropped only one pass last season, he caught one TD pass. But it's hard to build any plans around Gordon. He still should be viewed as a bonus.

                                          The other receivers are Corey Coleman, Rashard Higgins and Ricardo Louis. Coleman has broken a hand in each of the last two seasons. According to PFF, he had four drops in nine games. Louis dropped seven passes. Higgins only dropped two passes, but wasn't very productive. No one in that group inspires any confidence....

                                          More drama than what's on the Young & the Restless every week. Should be an interesting draft and 2018 season. 

                                          Did Pluto forget about Landry....or was this written before the Landry trade was made?

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