Note to Zombo on Cleveland Fans

[The Gipper]

A Steeler fan privately* messaged me stating that I was wrong about the Steelers attendance records in the 80s and claiming that the Steeler during the "Kosar era" actually had a higher percentage of attendance than the Browns did. Thus he wanted me to retract my statement. I do NOT retract it as I have done the research on this very issue a couple of times in the past. However I am unable to come up with a resource that gives the Steelers attendance figures. Unlike the Browns website which gives the attendance figure for every home game in their history, the Steelers official website does not do that. I am not sure why. Surely it couldn't be out of embarassment. Nevertheless, if someone can find the Steeler's home attendance numbers for that era, or at least direct me to an accurate website or resource I would appreciate it.

I thought perhaps Pro Football reference had it, but I couldn't find it there. Thanks.

The Gipper

*privately means that he admitted that he didn't have the kohenes to post it here....he claims that the board monitors here refuse to post his "truthful information". I understood this was a free forum. Why should someone's contrary opinion be censored....or contrary facts. I like everyone else have an a-hole and an opinion. But, on matters of fact, I expect accuracy...including if I am proven wrong on facts. I am sure I am not wrong here, but I will certainly accept any evidence proffered.

[The Gipper]

@fsg said:

Interesting revisionist history.

I grew up in Ohio in the 80s and remember routinely being able to watch Steelers games on Channel 3, because the Browns had been blacked out due to not being able to sell out. Indeed, the only games you could count on a Sell-Out were the divisional games.

You are full of the sh** of the Christmas goose. There were very few if any Browns games that were not sold out in the 80s.

I lived here, I watched them. I know

You go on an on here--basketball being sold out? Only since Lebron came in dude. What about before that???

Are you going to claim how great a fans you were, being more loyal than that of Pittsburgh fans, when you count only the sell outs you got during the LeBron era? The Gund was routinely FANS DISGUISED AS BLUE SEATS if it was a sell out.

[b]For a crappy, losing team there certainly were not sellouts. But that was only for a short period. The Richfield Coliseum was riotus all the time. We fans of Cleveland have done a remarkable job supporting even crappy losing teams[/b]

And the Indians.....where were all those fans sticking through the tough times of the 1980s? You could go to a game in August and there would be 3000 fans there....I remember, because I went to few.

You've had fans showing up only since 1994 when the Indians began winning and 2003 since LeBron was drafted.

[b]Sure, we didn't have great attendance for bad teams. Pittsburgh has had lousy attendance for good teams.[/b]

this is simply not true. You are a fan making up something

The Steelers have sold out every single game since 1972. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...cope-obit_N.htm

That is a pile of crap. If they sold out all those games, then they must have had the likes of 20,000-25,000 no shows at times at their stadium. Again, I have been here and done that research and apparently I will have to do it again, though as I said, the Steelers hide their attendance figures.

You are no better fans than that of any other city/team in the country. Please don't try to talk high and mighty about yourself when you guys jump on the bandwagon just like fans do in every city in the country. You sound like more of an ass when you do.

I guess I have to go Doggerel on you: "Dost thou not suspect my place? Dost thou not suspect my years? OH that he were here to write me down an ass! But, Masters, remember, that I am an ass! though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. ---No, thou villain, thou art full of piety, as shall be proved upon thee by good witness. I am a wise fellow; and which is more, a householder, and which is more, as pretty a piece of flesh as any is in Cleveland, and one that knows the law, and one who knows the facts, go to; and a rich fellow enough, go to; and a fellow that hath had losses, and one that hath two gowns, and everthing handsome about him. Bring him away. O that I had been writ down an ass!

[OSU Kid]

HA I grew up going to Richfield and old Cleveland Stadium when i was a kid in the 80's into my high school days in the 90's and it is like any other town in America if you win you get support if you lose you dont or if you get a new facility it spikes interests again. Dont fool yourself Gipper. Football is the only sport where attendance will remain high in most cases whether you are good or bad due to the popularity and due to the fact there are only 8 dates a year at home. There were some BLEAK years in the 80s at Richfield but when Nance, Ehlo and the boys got good people came out and jumped on the bandwagon, just like anywehre else.

Cavs at Richfield capcity 20,273

1993-94 753,686 18,383

1992-93 751,469 18,329

1991-92 677,408 16,522

1990-91 623,906 15,217

1989-90 695,710 16,969

1988-89 730,925 17,827

1987-88 504,847 12,313

1986-87 447,125 10,905

1985-86 390,842 9,533

1984-85 323,984 7,902

1983-84 208,095 5,075

1982-83 160,537 3,916

1981-82 236,523 5,769

1980-81 224,489 5,475

1979-80 322,788 7,873

1978-79 325,616 7,942

1977-78 454,961 11,097

1976-77 570,445 13,913

1975-76 519,010 12,659

Cavs at Gund and Q. capacity 20,562

2006-07 837,883 20,436

2005-06 792,391 19,326

2004-05 784,249 19,128

2003-04 749,790 18,288

2002-03 471,374 11,497

2001-02 596,115 14,539

2000-01 650,775 15,873

1999-00 603,702 14,724

1998-99 352,992 14,120

1997-98 694,629 16,942

1996-97 692,684 16,895

1995-96 730,095 17,807

1994-95 833,850 20,338

I wont even post the numbers from old Cleveland stadium for the Indians in the 80s up until the Jake came around, but if woudl like me to I certainly will. I am pretty sure there were 4 years in the mid to late 80s where they drew under 10k as an average.

[hammertime]

@osu-kid said:

HA I grew up going to Richfield and old Cleveland Stadium when i was a kid in the 80's into my high school days in the 90's and it is like any other town in America if you win you get support if you lose you dont or if you get a new facility it spikes interests again. Dont fool yourself Gipper. Football is the only sport where attendance will remain high in most cases whether you are good or bad due to the popularity and due to the fact there are only 8 dates a year at home. There were some BLEAK years in the 80s at Richfield but when Nance, Ehlo and the boys got good people came out and jumped on the bandwagon, just like anywehre else.

Cavs at Richfield capcity 20,273

1993-94 753,686 18,383

1992-93 751,469 18,329

1991-92 677,408 16,522

1990-91 623,906 15,217

1989-90 695,710 16,969

1988-89 730,925 17,827

1987-88 504,847 12,313

1986-87 447,125 10,905

1985-86 390,842 9,533

1984-85 323,984 7,902

1983-84 208,095 5,075

1982-83 160,537 3,916

1981-82 236,523 5,769

1980-81 224,489 5,475

1979-80 322,788 7,873

1978-79 325,616 7,942

1977-78 454,961 11,097

1976-77 570,445 13,913

1975-76 519,010 12,659

Cavs at Gund and Q. capacity 20,562

2006-07 837,883 20,436

2005-06 792,391 19,326

2004-05 784,249 19,128

2003-04 749,790 18,288

2002-03 471,374 11,497

2001-02 596,115 14,539

2000-01 650,775 15,873

1999-00 603,702 14,724

1998-99 352,992 14,120

1997-98 694,629 16,942

1996-97 692,684 16,895

1995-96 730,095 17,807

1994-95 833,850 20,338

I wont even post the numbers from old Cleveland stadium for the Indians in the 80s up until the Jake came around, but if woudl like me to I certainly will. I am pretty sure there were 4 years in the mid to late 80s where they drew under 10k as an average.

come on now, nobody could sell out the coliseum with World B. Free

[The Gipper]

@osu-kid said:

HA I grew up going to Richfield and old Cleveland Stadium when i was a kid in the 80's into my high school days in the 90's and it is like any other town in America if you win you get support if you lose you dont or if you get a new facility it spikes interests again. Dont fool yourself Gipper. Football is the only sport where attendance will remain high in most cases whether you are good or bad due to the popularity and due to the fact there are only 8 dates a year at home. There were some BLEAK years in the 80s at Richfield but when Nance, Ehlo and the boys got good people came out and jumped on the bandwagon, just like anywehre else.

Cavs at Richfield capcity 20,273

1993-94 753,686 18,383

1992-93 751,469 18,329

1991-92 677,408 16,522

1990-91 623,906 15,217

1989-90 695,710 16,969

1988-89 730,925 17,827

1987-88 504,847 12,313

1986-87 447,125 10,905

1985-86 390,842 9,533

1984-85 323,984 7,902

1983-84 208,095 5,075

1982-83 160,537 3,916

1981-82 236,523 5,769

1980-81 224,489 5,475

1979-80 322,788 7,873

1978-79 325,616 7,942

1977-78 454,961 11,097

1976-77 570,445 13,913

1975-76 519,010 12,659

Cavs at Gund and Q. capacity 20,562

2006-07 837,883 20,436

2005-06 792,391 19,326

2004-05 784,249 19,128

2003-04 749,790 18,288

2002-03 471,374 11,497

2001-02 596,115 14,539

2000-01 650,775 15,873

1999-00 603,702 14,724

1998-99 352,992 14,120

1997-98 694,629 16,942

1996-97 692,684 16,895

1995-96 730,095 17,807

1994-95 833,850 20,338

I wont even post the numbers from old Cleveland stadium for the Indians in the 80s up until the Jake came around, but if woudl like me to I certainly will. I am pretty sure there were 4 years in the mid to late 80s where they drew under 10k as an average.

OK, the Indians were losers for 40 years and they didn't get the attendance that a contending team got.... is that a surprise? Yet...they DID get decent attendance at times, and the support of the fans. Same for the Cavs. The point of this thread is that the Cleveland fans stuck by these losing teams better than just about any fans in America sticks by their teams...and that we do not have to have constant winners to support these teams. I was in that old stadium a lot of times in sparse crowds....but I was also in there for crowds of over 70,000 at times. So the interest has always been there.

Again, the point is: Cleveland fans stick by their "losing teams" as well or better than other cities, who have won 10 or 12 titles in the same period. (not just Pittsburgh no doubt.)

[OSU Kid]

Hey hammeretime, your exactly right that is what I am trying to say all cities have down times in different eras of losing. Gipper is trying to act like Clevland is the exception and we have outstanding fan support through out time. You win you draw better I mean look at the spike in avg attendance from the year before to the Lebron came in 7k more. Where we they all the year before why were they not there supporting the team.

[Pumpkin Eater]

JosephSixpack said:

I posted loads of games during the '80s, during losing seasons for the Steelers, with game attendance (not paid attendance) figures of 55,000+ out of 59,000 total capacity (before the mod deleted them). Those were the real numbers of butts in seats, not tickets sold. Which means Steeler fans still showed up in droves no matter if the QB was named Bradshaw or Brister. There is no hiding of attendance figures, which I sent you. You continue to ignore this -- on purpose.

fag

[hammertime]

@osu-kid said:

Hey hammeretime, your exactly right that is what I am trying to say all cities have down times in different eras of losing. Gipper is trying to act like Clevland is the exception and we have outstanding fan support through out time. You win you draw better I mean look at the spike in avg attendance from the year before to the Lebron came in 7k more. Where we they all the year before why were they not there supporting the team.

I've never seen it posted that we sell out all sports all the time, but without a doubt Cleveland has the most loyal, diehard fans around. And more of them then Pittspuke, Art Modell was hung in effigy, who else is more rabid then the 40,000 loyal fans that disposed of perfectly good beer bottles to show there displeasure with a call on the feild. I'll hang with the Cle crowd all the way!! (minus throwing away good alcohol)

[Captain Cheesedick]

You can't compare based on what might have been. "if the Steelers had 10 losing seasons..."

of course this is the Brownsboard.com, which means we base our opinion on speculation, potential, and what we want to see, not what is real.

[The Gipper]

Furthermore, here is the data on the sparse attendance at some Steeler games in the 80s. Recall that capacity of Three Rivers was about 59,000. For the most part,yes, they did a good job of filling the stadium. Sometimes not so great:

In 1984 they had one game with only 48,892 there. In a 1985 game against the Bills they only had 35,953 fans. In 1986 they had attendance at games of 49,724, 45,042, and 47,150. In 1987 they had attendance at one game of 34,627...but we can give them absolution here as that was a "replacement" player game, but they also had "crowds" of 47,896 and 48,881 that year. In 1988 they had attendance figures of 46,026, 42,057 vs. the Chiefs and 35,051 vs. the Dolphins.

In 1989 the Steelers made the playoffs as a wild card but had attendance at some games of 44,203 vs. the Chargers, 40,541 vs. the Oilers, and 26,594 vs. the Patriots. Yes, that is 26,594. (the boo-hoo here is that it was a 5 degree day. Yea? how many of those have the Browns had? Bottom line is while yes, they now sellout all their games, I have no clue if these were sellouts....but if they were, many, many people elected to stay away. The point is, I was correct about my figures.

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

I guess I have to go Doggerel on you: "Dost thou not suspect my place? Dost thou not suspect my years? OH that he were here to write me down an ass! But, Masters, remember, that I am an ass! though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. ---No, thou villain, thou art full of piety, as shall be proved upon thee by good witness. I am a wise fellow; and which is more, a householder, and which is more, as pretty a piece of flesh as any is in Cleveland, and one that knows the law, and one who knows the facts, go to; and a rich fellow enough, go to; and a fellow that hath had losses, and one that hath two gowns, and everthing handsome about him. Bring him away. O that I had been writ down an ass!

This was actually Dogberry, not Doggerel, though it is a bit of doggerel, though I doubt you know the difference.

[ATENEARS]

This isn't even a debatable topic. There isn't ANYONE out there (Browns or Steelers fan) that can honestly state that Browns aren't more loyal.

When the drought hits Pittsburgh, and oh will it hit, Pittsburgh will be lucky to draw 45,000 in their small little stadium. There will be no towel waving, no hiding in opposing teams concourse tunnels and coming out at games end and act as if you took over opposing teams stadiums. The ugly broads that cling to Steeler Nation will go back to working the local tractor pulls.

Shut-up already Steeler fags ... you're paper fans, and you suck.

[ATENEARS]

Here's an article from a neutral perspective:

The Monday Bangover: The best NFL fan bases

Posted by: admin

This list is going to really piss some people off. How do I feel about that? I feel great about it, actually. I’ve lived all over this country. I’ve watched games in bars and restaurants in more states than I can remember. I’ve been to quite a few stadiums. I’ve observed pretty much every team and its fans as they’ve visited Arrowhead over the years. I’ve frequented NFL message boards ever since my introduction to the Interwebs. I’ve been debating this question with my brother and others for two decades now. After doing some serious research, I’m more than qualified to drop this list on you.

The Top Ten Best NFL Fan Bases (in alphabetical order):

Buffalo Bills -If you have a problem with this pick, I suggest that you get on Netflix or go to Blockbuster and rent Buffalo ‘66 (Christina Ricci!). After that, if you still have a problem go screw yourself. Bills fans are some of the NFL’s best fans who routinely fight off both the elements (gloves help) and boredom to give their squad home field advantage.

Cleveland Browns - This is another nomination which needs no explaining. Browns fans were named No. 1 in “fan loyalty” in a somewhat recent study. That makes sense to me, as Dawg Pounders have been given every reason to stop caring about their Browns over the years, yet remain some of the best fans in the league. Take that, Art Modell. - BizJournals “NFL’s most loyal fans”

SOURCE

Dallas Cowboys - It pains me to do this, but I have no choice. Even Cowboys fans who started out as bandwagon fans during The Triplets era seem to have transformed into die-hards, despite the teams recent struggles. The ‘Boys have great fans spread all over the country, and the locals are pretty damn gung-ho about the team and its new QB as well.

Denver Broncos - I hate the Donks, so this definitely isn’t getting any easier for me. The Broncos are routinely in the top five in attendance, despite the meteorological hazards (you pussies cold?) of Mile High. The Broncos — not the Avalanche, Nuggets or Rockies — come first in Denver. Broncos fans also travel well, as they commute to Arrowhead better than any other opposing fan base (the Lambs and that pussball three-hour drive don’t count).

Green Bay Packers - Sundays are a religious experience in Wisconsin, and not just because of the sabbath. Furthermore, Brett Favre has turned this group of fans into one of the NFL’s largest. Pack fans are loyal, knowledgeable and willing to face the elements. Hey, Arizona Cardinals and Atlanta Falcons fans don’t even show up to watch their respective squads play under perfect weather conditions. The Green Bay faithful are also some of the NFL’s healthiest heartiest fans.

Kansas City Chiefs - Am I a Chiefs fan? Yes, I am. Am I biased? Yes. I don’t give a fuck — Arrowhead rocks harder than any stadium in pro sports. The team had the second-best attendance in the league over the past decade despite its location in the sixth-smallest and seventh-coldest market overall. Arrowhead sells out every Sunday, when it transforms into an 80,000-fan sea of red and the loudest stadium in the NFL. The Chiefs attendance is amazing considering the team hasn’t won a playoff game since ‘93, and hasn’t made an appearance in the Super Bowl since 1969 — the year Woodstock went down. Not only are Chiefs fans loyal and rabid, they are also knowledgeable and the best tailgaters period.

Miami Dolphins - From dealing with these fans on a regular basis due to my contributions over at RealFootball365, I can honestly tell you that they are possibly the NFL’s most stubborn delusional fans. It’s like they still think they’re better than the rest of us because their team had a perfect season 35 years ago around the time of prohibition. Still, they’re insanely loyal. Maybe the most impressive aspect of Dolphandom is how devoted the non-local Phins fans are. You can hardly ever go to any sports bar in the country on NFL Sundays without running into some serious teal (that just sounds gay).

Philadelphia Eagles - Iggles fans, the pleasant group of folks cold-blooded bastards that they are, definitely belong on this list. Other than Broncos fans — who have less distance to travel and a rivalry as additional motivation — these fans travel to Arrowhead better than any other team’s base. And City of Brotherly love my ass — Iggles fans are nasty. Still, they know a great deal about their Eagles and the NFL, and are probably the second-loudest group in the league (I’m telling you, make the trip to Arrowhead). I just wouldn’t ever want to break my neck at The Linc.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Stillers fans annoy the shit out of me. Seriously, they’re annoying as hell even without those stupid yellow dishrags (look at those heffers!) they swing around like they were in a Petey Pablo video. Nonetheless, these fans always have both Heinz Field and American sports bars rocking on game days. Stillers fans almost were left of this list, however, due to the fact that they aren’t even in the top ten among NFL teams when it comes to filling the seats.

[Captain Cheesedick]

wow. We sound pathetic.

Our argument is that we are better fans because we follow a bad football team?

Just like the guy who has a rebel flag and can't accept the South lost the war.

Like the Iraq PR guy when the US was taking over Bagdad.

I miss the good old days when we would argue Quinn was better than Rothlisberger because , ...well, because we said so.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Correct ALL the Game s Were Sold out... Issues with Weather and Other Factors contributed to the numbers on Game Day. Geezz that Pats game was like 5 degrees with a -18 Wind Chill. Steelers put 25% and Higher of the Fans in Most ROAD games. They are know World wide as Some of Sports most Passionate fans ! Get the freak over your selves and you stupid obsession with Ripping Pittsburgh. This is the Only site I go on in the NFL where the Obsession is Not with the Home team but a Rival !! Goodness develop some Pride and Not this endless whining !!

[OconRecon]

Who give a flying fook about the Steelers? I don't. What kind of looser fan base comes to an 4-12 opponent's team board to post? Give me a break.

Browns fans are amazingly loyal through it all. Our day will come, and when it does, I STILL won't be over on the Steelers boards, no matter what rock or bridge they're under.

Trolling is for the lonely and unfullfilled. Go the hell home.

[HowieDawg]

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

Correct ALL the Game s Were Sold out... Issues with Weather and Other Factors contributed to the numbers on Game Day. Geezz that Pats game was like 5 degrees with a -18 Wind Chill. Steelers put 25% and Higher of the Fans in Most ROAD games. They are know World wide as Some of Sports most Passionate fans ! Get the freak over your selves and you stupid obsession with Ripping Pittsburgh. This is the Only site I go on in the NFL where the Obsession is Not with the Home team but a Rival !! Goodness develop some Pride and Not this endless whining !!

hey Freak, and you are one, you blast us and yet you lurk around our board with your BS. 99% of discussion here is about our team and the passion we feel for them not your towel waving nonsense.

73,000 week in week out irrespective of results says everything you need to know. Of course we want more and will get it but when it comes those that witness it will have been there throughout not just jumping on the W train like your bunch of armchair "fans". I bet you have loads of fans who travel the globe to be part of your great fanbase.

Jealousy is ugly and even uglier in piss yellow and black.

[Riffer X]

Pretty sure I went through this entire thread and didn't see it brought up where Municipal Stadium held 80,000 people compared to Three Sewers holding 59,000.

Is any more discussion needed? BTW, Cleveland Browns Stadium holds 73,000 and Heinz Field holds 65,000. Even when they built a new one and had a chance to even things up they made it smallish by today's standards. Does anybody think the planners would purposely pass up revenue from more seats if they thought it was plausible week in and week out to sell out?

In comparison, the Redskins have almost 92,000 capacity at Fed Ex Field.

You Steeler jackoffs go on a five to ten year down period and watch all your little female fans vamoose----hell, two years for that matter. Gone will be the toothless wiggers and fast food workers. Your new generation fans here in Ohio that swear up and down they are fans cuz their "parents were" will start rethinking the fact it's not quite as cool anymore. The neckar crowd will start looking for another team they deem "tough" instead of the old black an yella. The yuppyish guy that really isn't into football all that much but thinks it's cool to look the part, will go back to whatever they did before they started being cool with the Steelers. I saw a Porsche today with a Steeler emblem in the rear window on I 271.

Steeler fans are absolutely worthless, stupid fans for the most part. The ones that are diehards should despise the majority of their fanbase. Puker types live their lives vicariously through their football team yet can't tell you their GM's name. When I say living vicariously, I mean wearing the garb on a daily basis and defining their personality based on rooting for the Steelers. They're fooking morons.

[88fingerslewy]

Hiwaygal....I love your boot.

[sisky fringo]

@the-gipper said:

Cleveland fans, in addition to being the longest suffering in North America, may very well be the best fans in North America.

and they may very well be guilty of being enablers too. some day we need to stop rewarding a lack of success. not being a Richard, Gip, but there seems to be a correlation there. makes a guy wonder if CLE may have developed a "free pass" mentality?