Japan warns that N. Korea may fire missile at U.S. (Hawaii)
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Obama Offers Health Care to N. Korea
Washington D.C. (FTB newswire) In a dramatic attempt to quell rising tensions, President Obama is offering free medical care to the citizens of North Korea. The bold move comes as N. Korea prepares to launch a second long range missile. The proposal was made last night during a speech to U.S. hospital directors in Omaha Nebraska.
Head or Gut? -
cal that was not a "slur" against either Reagon or Bush.... good grief. when it comes to military projection of power I am a pragmatist not a utopian liberal.
There is a need for some sort of anti icbm or mid range missile defense regardless of whatever treaty is signed. The possible collateral damage like bioengineered diseases is to great to ignore.
I brought that as an example of a basic grayscale when referring to what one nation has a right to do in the eyes of other nations. Ultimately each individual nation can and will do whatever they deem necessary regardless of other soveriegn opinions..... Moral ability or even projected opinions by the U.N. or any other communal grouping of nations about who has the right to do whatever really is foggy and ultimately there is no "right" or wrong...
Stop being so defensive about Bush slurs.. he is a pretty broad target considered his massive failure as well pretty much anything he ever did. The missile defense project was started well in advance of his presidency.
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Obama Offers Health Care to N. Korea
Washington D.C. (FTB newswire) In a dramatic attempt to quell rising tensions, President Obama is offering free medical care to the citizens of North Korea. The bold move comes as N. Korea prepares to launch a second long range missile. The proposal was made last night during a speech to U.S. hospital directors in Omaha Nebraska.
Obama Offers Health Care to N. Korea
Washington D.C. (FTB newswire) In a dramatic attempt to quell rising tensions, President Obama is offering free medical care to the citizens of North Korea. The bold move comes as N. Korea prepares to launch a second long range missile. The proposal was made last night during a speech to U.S. hospital directors in Omaha Nebraska.
That was actually pretty funny.
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cal that was not a "slur" against either Reagon or Bush.... good grief. when it comes to military projection of power I am a pragmatist not a utopian liberal.
There is a need for some sort of anti icbm or mid range missile defense regardless of whatever treaty is signed. The possible collateral damage like bioengineered diseases is to great to ignore.
I brought that as an example of a basic grayscale when referring to what one nation has a right to do in the eyes of other nations. Ultimately each individual nation can and will do whatever they deem necessary regardless of other soveriegn opinions..... Moral ability or even projected opinions by the U.N. or any other communal grouping of nations about who has the right to do whatever really is foggy and ultimately there is no "right" or wrong...
Stop being so defensive about Bush slurs.. he is a pretty broad target considered his massive failure as well pretty much anything he ever did. The missile defense project was started well in advance of his presidency.
Stop being so defensive about Bush slurs.. he is a pretty broad target considered his massive failure as well pretty much anything he ever did. The missile defense project was started well in advance of his presidency.
I went back and read all posts, no where did Sev slur Bush or Regan. He was actually agreeing with you. Cal, lay off the Weed is still making you paranoid.
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Steve to address your sarcastic comment...... nation to nation rules and agreements are foggy at best IE: our nuclear nonploriferation agreement Bush Jr. pulled out of for all intensive purposes to develop the "missile defense shield" formerly known as the Star wars program from the Reagon era.
so no the Might makes right based ideology really does not apply.
So the "right" for one or many nations to tell another one is not really enforceable except by war or economic embargo....etc. So drop your BS sarcastic comments and on a topic when dealing with Nuclear ramifications is extremely difficult to deal with because of collateral damage that will occur due to the nature of the technologies involved.
As for "meddling" truthfully its the economics of Korea/China/Japan and the impacts on us is the ONLY reason really we care... kind of like how we treat African continent based problems with the MILLIONS that have been killed over the last 20 years.
As for the "scare/intimidation" attention demanding tactics..... Well for negotiation that borders on blackmail this is one good piece of bartering to strengthen their position. He is old and his son needs to have some positive pr in order to keep populace based support, in all liklihood once this all settles out his son will get the credit for "showing the west" North korea's strength and developing military power etc...
North korean military elite are not stupid, would they fire in the general direction to show they have the capacity? YES but it is highly unlikely they would actually live fire at the U.S.... possible but unlikely. Kim Jong il is crazy like a fox but I dont THINK... he is actually crazy... than again you never really know.
Remember they already did an underground detonation.... which led into negotiations.... same pattern... most likely same results
Steve to address your sarcastic comment...... nation to nation rules and agreements are foggy at best IE: our nuclear nonploriferation agreement Bush Jr. pulled out of for all intensive purposes to develop the "missile defense shield" formerly known as the Star wars program from the Reagon era.
so no the Might makes right based ideology really does not apply.
So the "right" for one or many nations to tell another one is not really enforceable except by war or economic embargo....etc. So drop your BS sarcastic comments and on a topic when dealing with Nuclear ramifications is extremely difficult to deal with because of collateral damage that will occur due to the nature of the technologies involved.
The "BS" Sev is thinking that idealogy and mioght aren't the same thing.
There are two reasons the US is the world power that it is.
Natural resources and superior military and weaponry.
Unfortunately like the Romans and every other defunct "empire" in history we find ourselves watching "rogue" and other third world shitholes figuring that out.
Soon the barbarians wised up to bronze swords and modern fighting techniques while the Romans became more "civilized."
So yes Sev the guy with the money and power is the guy that writes the history books and the news copy.
I say we and the civilized world have every right to tell Il and Ahmedinijad to pounbd salt.
We were stupid to negotiate and now, as it turns out, it's likely too late.
Remember they already did an underground detonation.... which led into negotiations.... same pattern... most likely same results
Or worse.
Sooner or later the little bastard will get this shit working then after decades of paying him off the price will be too steep.
We can hope Obama's rhetoric hasn't pained him into a corner.
WSS
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CORRECTION the U.S. is a superpower BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL AGE TURNING OUR RESCOURCES INTO ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER AND THEREBY GRANTING US TECHNICAL ADVANTAGE FIRST.
Military power is only available if the economics and technical innovation ahead of other competing nations. Natural rescources means squat to South american countries or African nations..... they dont have the economic system to drive themselves.
Ideology only is supported if the economics holds them up and gives them the time away from basic survival to put our specialized services like diversified fields like lifetime politicians or soldiers/ specialized industries.
Ideology and "might"(meaning military power) are great possibilities as long as people can feed themselves and leave enough time to devote toward specialization.
EVERY major superpower regardless of the times had the same thing in common, technology/economics that gives rise toward specialization industry specific.
So estoric debates on philosophy/nation soveriegn rights/governmental system ideologies/miltary/economic utilization are only possible if societies have the ability to specialize away from basic survival........
There really does not exist an absolute "right" of one nation or a coalltion of nations to say to another one you can do this and we can do that. That is only limited to and possible by extended some sort of leverage economically or well the military option.
No steve the guy with the money and the power dont always write the books anymore..... Yes the victors in ages past used to but todays time is drastically different.
Steve you really should refrain from posting on North Korea because you are so vastly out of you realm. Obama has done NOTHING one way or the other to really affect North Korea. North Korea is would be doing this regardless of who is our president because international blackmail is now there predominant economy.
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CORRECTION the U.S. is a superpower BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL AGE TURNING OUR RESCOURCES INTO ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER AND THEREBY GRANTING US TECHNICAL ADVANTAGE FIRST.
Military power is only available if the economics and technical innovation ahead of other competing nations. Natural rescources means squat to South american countries or African nations..... they dont have the economic system to drive themselves.
Ideology only is supported if the economics holds them up and gives them the time away from basic survival to put our specialized services like diversified fields like lifetime politicians or soldiers/ specialized industries.
Ideology and "might"(meaning military power) are great possibilities as long as people can feed themselves and leave enough time to devote toward specialization.
EVERY major superpower regardless of the times had the same thing in common, technology/economics that gives rise toward specialization industry specific.
So estoric debates on philosophy/nation soveriegn rights/governmental system ideologies/miltary/economic utilization are only possible if societies have the ability to specialize away from basic survival........
There really does not exist an absolute "right" of one nation or a coalltion of nations to say to another one you can do this and we can do that. That is only limited to and possible by extended some sort of leverage economically or well the military option.
No steve the guy with the money and the power dont always write the books anymore..... Yes the victors in ages past used to but todays time is drastically different.
Steve you really should refrain from posting on North Korea because you are so vastly out of you realm. Obama has done NOTHING one way or the other to really affect North Korea. North Korea is would be doing this regardless of who is our president because international blackmail is now there predominant economy.
CORRECTION the U.S. is a superpower BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL AGE TURNING OUR RESCOURCES INTO ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER AND THEREBY GRANTING US TECHNICAL ADVANTAGE FIRST.
That's not a "correction" that's basically what I said.
And we'd be wise to keep that advantage as big as possible.
No steve the guy with the money and the power dont always write the books anymore..... Yes the victors in ages past used to but todays time is drastically different.
Bullshit Sev.
Even in cases of dire poverty nations are at war and ideology is always the banner.
And the victor writes the story. You find me another case.
Steve you really should refrain from posting on North Korea because you are so vastly out of you realm. Obama has done NOTHING one way or the other to really affect North Korea. North Korea is would be doing this regardless of who is our president because international blackmail is now there predominant economy.
And you really should pull your head out of your ass.
It's no coincidence that events have taken a sharp turn lately.
The rewards or consequences and reaction to the threat by il concern the US in a huge way.
I don't say Obama has a clear choice (doesn't seem to be any good one) here but his actions and his perception are going to be crucial to the situation.
No matter how charming you find him.
WSS
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I think Sev's point is that while Obama's fp will affect North Korea's actions, the current crisis is almost exclusively product of domestic political concerns: declining economic conditions and what appears to be a succession plan initiated by Kim Jong Il.
And while the situation certainly has become more tense recently, this is something that has been brewing for some time. After all, it was back in Sept. '07 that the Israeli Air Force blew up what was believed to be a North Korea-supplied nuclear project in Syria. The problem began way before Obama. If there's any criticism to be made, it's that Obama's NSC should have anticipated it happening; indeed, some reports indicated that they weren't prepared for this crisis.
But as Jeffrey Lewis points out, every administration tends to have one of these mini-blunders.
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I think Sev's point is that while Obama's fp will affect North Korea's actions, the current crisis is almost exclusively product of domestic political concerns: declining economic conditions and what appears to be a succession plan initiated by Kim Jong Il.
And while the situation certainly has become more tense recently, this is something that has been brewing for some time. After all, it was back in Sept. '07 that the Israeli Air Force blew up what was believed to be a North Korea-supplied nuclear project in Syria. The problem began way before Obama. If there's any criticism to be made, it's that Obama's NSC should have anticipated it happening; indeed, some reports indicated that they weren't prepared for this crisis.
But as Jeffrey Lewis points out, every administration tends to have one of these mini-blunders.
Aloysius said:
I think Sev's point is that while Obama's fp will affect North Korea's actions, the current crisis is almost exclusively product of domestic political concerns: declining economic conditions and what appears to be a succession plan initiated by Kim Jong Il.
And while the situation certainly has become more tense recently, this is something that has been brewing for some time. After all, it was back in Sept. '07 that the Israeli Air Force blew up what was believed to be a North Korea-supplied nuclear project in Syria. The problem began way before Obama. If there's any criticism to be made, it's that Obama's NSC should have anticipated it happening; indeed, some reports indicated that they weren't prepared for this crisis.
But as Jeffrey Lewis points out, every administration tends to have one of these mini-blunders.
And lest you think I'm aiming a particular criticism at Obama MY point is that to think that the change in "the leadership of the free world" is irrelevant to the situation is ludicrous.
WSS
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1. Obama doesn't believe in this country. We told some of you that before. Michelle Obama
was NOT proud of this country, ever, according to her, until she got the wealth and power she craved,
as well as Buttock did.
2. Obama is sending us down a very bad road, and making overtures overseas to the tune of,
belittling our country at every stop, belittling the Bush admin at every chance, and wanting to
accepted as a superstar internationally. Hardly any kind of footing to keep very evil regimes
from taking their op to raise hell, eh?
3. Obama is seriously naive from his college ed, which is about all he has to go on in the most
important jobs in the world. For all the wailing about Sotomayor being SO experienced, Obama is
NOT. But, it doesn't matter per the convenience of the lib at the moment when things are discussed
and votes are made.
4. Obama so far, is Jimmy Carter II X 10. Carter gave N. Korea $$$$$ to keep them from going nuclear.
Yes, we see how that was a disaster. Now, we have another putting America down/won't stand up for her
goof in the White House, and N. Korea sees their chance.
So, too, the Iranian gov did the same.
5. Only SIX PERCENT of the Israelis see Obama as anything pro-Israel. That isn't good. Obama's LACK of
American Ideals and patriotism and courage to be a stand up pres is sending signals not just to N. Korea, but
Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda.
6. Obama IS a powerful, smart and keenly perceptive manipulator of people. BUT, he is turning out to
be all smoke and mirrors on the domestic and international stage.
It doesn't halp that he said we weren't a Christian nation, and later said we were a Muslim nation, and
bowed before an Islamic king. whatever.
7. The folks I know that voted for Obama and are sickened about it, are getting to be more than just
a few. I heard somebody talking about it with their friend at the grocery store. Went and helped the
old farmer down the way cut down some big wild cherry trees, and pulled em out with our front end loader,
and on the way out, stopped and talked with the 92 year old neighbor lady working out in her flower garden, who said that they have
friends who are depressed and angry and can't even talk about Obama without getting very upset. They ususally voted Democratic,
but they loved Reagan, she said.
But they voted for Obama, buying his vague notion of the "hope and change" baloney.
8. Obama and N. Korea have a common bond, neither has any principles whatsoever, and they are all
about manipulating other people for their survival and benefit.
9. Obama is not like most of us, "Red, White and Blue".
By his own choice he's "Black, White, and Rue". He's in over his head at every turn.
You can't manipulate EVERYBODY in the world, all the time. It has already caught up with him.
10. Yes, I used "rue" as a color, but really, it's a verb I inserted to make my point.
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Guys, I am really getting concerned. You seem like a good guy, Cal please seek some help.
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Oh, stick a cork in it, buttinski.
You love you some Obumbly, no big deal.
Didn't mean to make you lose your cookies.
Face it, Obama's approval ratings are sinking,
and internationally, his persona was high
on everybody's list, until now, they find
out his reality !
Hey, I can bs all day, but I have gardening to do.
Try ever so hard to have an opinion on something, instead
of these nasty little personal attacks because you don't agree
for whatever reason.
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Oh, stick a cork in it, buttinski.
You love you some Obumbly, no big deal.
Didn't mean to make you lose your cookies.
Face it, Obama's approval ratings are sinking,
and internationally, his persona was high
on everybody's list, until now, they find
out his reality !
Hey, I can bs all day, but I have gardening to do.
Try ever so hard to have an opinion on something, instead
of these nasty little personal attacks because you don't agree
for whatever reason.
Oh, stick a cork in it, buttinski.
You love you some Obumbly, no big deal.
Didn't mean to make you lose your cookies.
Face it, Obama's approval ratings are sinking,
and internationally, his persona was high
on everybody's list, until now, they find
out his reality !
Hey, I can bs all day, but I have gardening to do.
Try ever so hard to have an opinion on something, instead
of these nasty little personal attacks because you don't agree
for whatever reason.
LOL. My opinion is that you are brain washed just like the Obama people. You can't see the forest through the trees because your bi-partisan views. Most of my points are not pro-Obama with you. They show how brainwashed and paranoid YOU are. And of course you are going have a come back, but believe me, that will include your brain washed rhetoric as well.
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Seriously Steve.... your "understanding" of My other countries cease fire/containment issues is rudimentary AT BEST. The only thing you know is from a random news story you may have read all the way thru.
I need to pull MY head out of my ass about North korean tactics and foreign policy/internal domestic dynamics? OK mr I never served in any military, I am sure my understanding because I LIVED THERE,TRAINED THERE, I AM KOREAN WITH FAMILY IN THE NORTH, SATURATED WITH EDUCATION SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ANYTHING NORTH KOREAN. Vs well You who has probably never been there of really have any rudimentary historical,political or any sort of education about Korean peninsula problems...
Sure.
Let me set you straight quickly..... FIRST NORTH KOREA does not care what the U.S. really does with its foreign policy......WHY you ask..... BECAUSE OF CHINA. All they see the U.S. as truly is a unsurmountable MILITARY power..... that they can blackmail into paying them something.
CHINA is the MOST important player.... ask ANY Korean war veteran what turned the tide.... it was not the North Koreans.
So you can ignorantly talk about Obama and how his FP and your perception of his weaknesses or strengths on how this "no coincidence" behavior lmao correlates with the Norths current behavior....
This is purely about SUCCESSION/FACE/ECONOMICS not about U.S. leadership or policy. South korean leadership right now is not exactly what you may define as "liberal" the party in power is more like your extreme right wing led by Blackwater. THAT is also another HUGE piece to this puzzle. Like I said before you really should refrain from posting on this until you read and understand a whole hell of a lot more than you obviously do.
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Wow, Sev...
Crickets......
I really don't bother going to the news about North Korea, I'll just read your posts.
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Wow, Sev...
Crickets......
I really don't bother going to the news about North Korea, I'll just read your posts.
Wow, Sev...
Crickets......
I really don't bother going to the news about North Korea, I'll just read your posts.
Crickets?
As much time as I waste here I do other things as well.
Look if either of you guys wants to pretend that the POTUS, The US defense and state depts and foreign policy have no bearing nor effect in this situation and haven't over a great period of time you're out of your minds.
Sorry.
I can't even imagine a seriuous positive response to that idea even from anyone here.
WSS
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The problem is, Sev,
N. Korea got Carter to stupidly bribe them with $$$$$$, then secretly violated that.
Even Carter admitted he was a fool over that.
Now, you didn't see N. Korea trying to blackmail Pres Bush. He knew that wouldn't work.
But Obama has shown a huge display of weakness and pandering for world popularity.
Not workin much, now.
N. Korea wants to blackmail again? Been done, is counter productive, like the treaty to ban research
on non-defensive germ warfare research.
I wonder: China and the Soviets are there for the N. Koreans, why do they have to try to
blackmail the rest of the world?
I believe the alleged bluster by N, Korea is not a bluff, unless they are successful in
dominating the world opinion, and blackmail for giant profit.
Which, is why they wanted the nukes in the first place, apparently.
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They want nukes for the same reason we have them. It pretty much gaurantees outside nations dont invade you. They are not just secretive and obssesive they are borderline crazy.
They have elements in their military elite that believe the U.S. wants to invade them and force a unification. This most likely is not true but they believe it 100%.
Its not that the U.S. policy is not important, its just that they know the U.S. is really subject to Chinese influence first.
As for why North korea feels they can try to blackmail the rest of the world.... WHY NOT, if it worked in the past it more than likely will in the future.
Regardless of when they launch (imho) some test over the Pacific, the end result is cheaper for the world to pay them off in some way.
South Korea also has some "conservatives" in control and the best way to influence South korean leadership is thru international pressure ie blackmail bigger players.
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They want nukes for the same reason we have them. It pretty much gaurantees outside nations dont invade you. Sev
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Wait... they are threatening to nuke somebody if they don't get their way.
I don't think that's what we do with our nuke capability.
So, no, N. Korea, with China and Russia backing them up, don't have to
worry about being invaded. They wanted nukes to threaten and blackmail.
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Cal they dont fully trust the chinese and definately not the russians. They want to internally preserve themselves .
Would they use them to be a bully and blackmail the world? YES i dont want them to have them which is why i am for containment/ prolonging diplomatic tactics until they internally collapse
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