Nick watch...
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That’s pretty much the definition of playing the Hoke card. Unless you wanna give a specific example, that doesn’t hold water for me (especially when Michigan signed a class ranked in the twenty-somethings last year).
That’s pretty much the definition of playing the Hoke card. Unless you wanna give a specific example, that doesn’t hold water for me (especially when Michigan signed a class ranked in the twenty-somethings last year).
Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
That’s pretty much the definition of playing the Hoke card. Unless you wanna give a specific example, that doesn’t hold water for me (especially when Michigan signed a class ranked in the twenty-somethings last year).
Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Every player on this year team was recruited by Harbau so to blame anyone else is ridiculous
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Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Every player on this year team was recruited by Harbau so to blame anyone else is ridiculous
Every player on this year team was recruited by Harbau so to blame anyone else is ridiculous
Sigh
That's just factually incorrect.
But you have a bad habit of trying to speak like an authority on things you know nothing about. Which is why I have read or responded to most of your posts before this and will continue that going forward. I just had to chime in here as you're clearly wrong, and it would have taken you 30 seconds to check. Smh
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Every player on this year team was recruited by Harbau so to blame anyone else is ridiculous
Sigh
That's just factually incorrect.
But you have a bad habit of trying to speak like an authority on things you know nothing about. Which is why I have read or responded to most of your posts before this and will continue that going forward. I just had to chime in here as you're clearly wrong, and it would have taken you 30 seconds to check. Smh
Sigh
That's just factually incorrect.
Well, OK, how many like 5th year seniors are still on that team? anyone on that team would have to be a 5th year senior to have been a Hoke recruit. So prove to me that I am factually incorrect. Give the names of those players on the FMU roster that were recruits of Hoke that are still there.
But you have a bad habit of trying to speak like an authority on things you know nothing about. Which is why I have read or responded to most of your posts before this and will continue that going forward. I just had to chime in here as you're clearly wrong, and it would have taken you 30 seconds to check. Smh
I know that it has been 4-5 years now since Hoke was the FMU coach. I know that if there are any Hoke recruits still left on the team that you could probably count them on one hand. Are you claiming that those Hoke recruits have infected the other 80 or so players on that team with their losing disease? If so, then why is Harbaugh keeping them on...if he, and you and the rest of the team and all the alumni and staff, and fans have such disdain for those players?
And then ask, if those recruits of Hoke's on the team are so bad, then why has Harbaugh been unable to coach them up and to cure them of the Hoke stain upon them?
So....go ahead, list the names of all the players still on the FMU roster that were there before Harbaugh came. Prove what you claim.
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That’s pretty much the definition of playing the Hoke card. Unless you wanna give a specific example, that doesn’t hold water for me (especially when Michigan signed a class ranked in the twenty-somethings last year).
Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Call it what you want. Saying some of Harbaugh’s failures in preparing this particular team are in any way Brady Hoke’s fault is “playing the Hoke card.”
So a guy not being able to play his 5th year is a good reason? Seriously? Most of the big time programs have very few guys staying until their 5th year. They’re either run off before then or go to the NFL.
Everyone does the whole transition class thing. That’s no excuse.
Every class matters. The effects of depth trickle upward. The true freshmen push the 2nd stringers which makes the 2nd stringers better which pushes the starters. Gotta sign a top flight class every year. Nevertheless, my point was that I might give a pass on Hoke’s bad recruiting IF Harbaugh was signing consistent top 5 classes. He’s not, so I won’t. If Jimbo ever signed a twenty-something class, I’d panic a decent amount.
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Again, no it isn't. It's not "playing a card". It is just stating facts.
Going back to the tail end of the RRod era through the Hoke era, OL recruiting was pretty bad. This caused us to have to start a true freshman out of position at LT, Mason Cole (who I believe is now starting as a rookie for the Cardinals at C). If there was normal depth, Cole would have been redshirted, as are most OL, allowing him to still be playing this season.
The following season was Hoke's great fall, and the recruiting class reflected that. We had one tackle destined for the NFL and he had a career ending injury. Harbaugh attempted to pick up the pieces in a 3 week transition class.
The next class, Harbaugh's first "full" class (though, the staff is still a little behind as most recruiting starts before a player's Sr year) has its own issues. Those are on Harbaugh. A late decommitment and passing on an OT. That would prove to be disastrous after the career ending injury above. The following year was similar, though not as bad. They aimed high and couldn't walk away with any big names. We would eventually fire our OL coach...
As for last year's class, that shouldn't matter. True freshman should very, very, very rarely ever start at OL, and when they do its usually out of desperation, not talent. Linemen usually need that year to bulk up. Even then, we might turn to one of the true freshmen to try and start this year (desperation). But last year's class being the worst of Harbuagh's main three so far doesn't really play into the situation we're in now.
Call it what you want. Saying some of Harbaugh’s failures in preparing this particular team are in any way Brady Hoke’s fault is “playing the Hoke card.”
So a guy not being able to play his 5th year is a good reason? Seriously? Most of the big time programs have very few guys staying until their 5th year. They’re either run off before then or go to the NFL.
Everyone does the whole transition class thing. That’s no excuse.
Every class matters. The effects of depth trickle upward. The true freshmen push the 2nd stringers which makes the 2nd stringers better which pushes the starters. Gotta sign a top flight class every year. Nevertheless, my point was that I might give a pass on Hoke’s bad recruiting IF Harbaugh was signing consistent top 5 classes. He’s not, so I won’t. If Jimbo ever signed a twenty-something class, I’d panic a decent amount.
Call it what you want. Saying some of Harbaugh’s failures in preparing this particular team are in any way Brady Hoke’s fault is “playing the Hoke card.”
So a guy not being able to play his 5th year is a good reason? Seriously? Most of the big time programs have very few guys staying until their 5th year. They’re either run off before then or go to the NFL.
Everyone does the whole transition class thing. That’s no excuse.
Every class matters. The effects of depth trickle upward. The true freshmen push the 2nd stringers which makes the 2nd stringers better which pushes the starters. Gotta sign a top flight class every year. Nevertheless, my point was that I might give a pass on Hoke’s bad recruiting IF Harbaugh was signing consistent top 5 classes. He’s not, so I won’t. If Jimbo ever signed a twenty-something class, I’d panic a decent amount.
You can call it what you want then to make it sound bad, that's fine. We clearly aren't going to agree. If you refuse to acknowledge the context and recent history leading to where we are now, alright.
Wisconsin, which consistently produces a very good OL, has an entire starting lineup with a Redshirt. Two starters are Redshirt Srs.
I'm sorry, but no. Last year's recruiting class, and the true freshmen OL in it, are not expected to play the vast majority of the time. They are not expected to play a major role in this current years OL depth and performance.
Harbaugh has had 3 full recruiting classes (though even the 2016 class was working from behind some).
According to Rivals:
- 2016 - 4th
- 2017 - 4th
- 2018 - 24th
2018 was obviously not great. Regardless, I think you're trying to make Harbaugh's recruiting seem worse than it is, basing it much more on his recent class. No reason to panic.
In that time A&M was 17, 10 and 16. We'll see how much Jimbo can affect that.
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Call it what you want. Saying some of Harbaugh’s failures in preparing this particular team are in any way Brady Hoke’s fault is “playing the Hoke card.”
So a guy not being able to play his 5th year is a good reason? Seriously? Most of the big time programs have very few guys staying until their 5th year. They’re either run off before then or go to the NFL.
Everyone does the whole transition class thing. That’s no excuse.
Every class matters. The effects of depth trickle upward. The true freshmen push the 2nd stringers which makes the 2nd stringers better which pushes the starters. Gotta sign a top flight class every year. Nevertheless, my point was that I might give a pass on Hoke’s bad recruiting IF Harbaugh was signing consistent top 5 classes. He’s not, so I won’t. If Jimbo ever signed a twenty-something class, I’d panic a decent amount.
You can call it what you want then to make it sound bad, that's fine. We clearly aren't going to agree. If you refuse to acknowledge the context and recent history leading to where we are now, alright.
Wisconsin, which consistently produces a very good OL, has an entire starting lineup with a Redshirt. Two starters are Redshirt Srs.
I'm sorry, but no. Last year's recruiting class, and the true freshmen OL in it, are not expected to play the vast majority of the time. They are not expected to play a major role in this current years OL depth and performance.
Harbaugh has had 3 full recruiting classes (though even the 2016 class was working from behind some).
According to Rivals:
- 2016 - 4th
- 2017 - 4th
- 2018 - 24th
2018 was obviously not great. Regardless, I think you're trying to make Harbaugh's recruiting seem worse than it is, basing it much more on his recent class. No reason to panic.
In that time A&M was 17, 10 and 16. We'll see how much Jimbo can affect that.
You can call it what you want then to make it sound bad, that's fine. We clearly aren't going to agree. If you refuse to acknowledge the context and recent history leading to where we are now, alright.
Wisconsin, which consistently produces a very good OL, has an entire starting lineup with a Redshirt. Two starters are Redshirt Srs.
I'm sorry, but no. Last year's recruiting class, and the true freshmen OL in it, are not expected to play the vast majority of the time. They are not expected to play a major role in this current years OL depth and performance.
Harbaugh has had 3 full recruiting classes (though even the 2016 class was working from behind some).
According to Rivals:
- 2016 - 4th
- 2017 - 4th
- 2018 - 24th
2018 was obviously not great. Regardless, I think you're trying to make Harbaugh's recruiting seem worse than it is, basing it much more on his recent class. No reason to panic.
In that time A&M was 17, 10 and 16. We'll see how much Jimbo can affect that.
Wisconsin is a mostly white nerd team that will never win a national championship. Is that your goal? How many 5th year seniors starting do Bama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc. have? Don’t look to Wisconsin as an example if you want to win really big. If you want to win 10 games a year, then go emulate Wisconsin. Otherwise not relevant.
I never said true freshmen OL should play (though again, many of the big time squads have had those).
And I concede A&M didn’t recruit enough (in fact wrote lengthy blog posts about as much on NSD both 2015 and 16). Jimbo will affect that don’t you worry. Sumlin was an overrated recruiter, never addressed needs, and loved to load up on 4 star receivers while they rest of the SEC stacked the front 7 .
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According to Ourlads, Bama has 2 redshirt seniors on the starting lineup. Ohio State has 4. Auburn and Georgia have 1. Clemson 4. Oklahoma 3. Notre Dame has ZERO.
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According to Ourlads, Bama has 2 redshirt seniors on the starting lineup. Ohio State has 4. Auburn and Georgia have 1. Clemson 4. Oklahoma 3. Notre Dame has ZERO.
According to Ourlads, Bama has 2 redshirt seniors on the starting lineup. Ohio State has 4. Auburn and Georgia have 1. Clemson 4. Oklahoma 3. Notre Dame has ZERO.
How many Does Michigan have
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You can call it what you want then to make it sound bad, that's fine. We clearly aren't going to agree. If you refuse to acknowledge the context and recent history leading to where we are now, alright.
Wisconsin, which consistently produces a very good OL, has an entire starting lineup with a Redshirt. Two starters are Redshirt Srs.
I'm sorry, but no. Last year's recruiting class, and the true freshmen OL in it, are not expected to play the vast majority of the time. They are not expected to play a major role in this current years OL depth and performance.
Harbaugh has had 3 full recruiting classes (though even the 2016 class was working from behind some).
According to Rivals:
- 2016 - 4th
- 2017 - 4th
- 2018 - 24th
2018 was obviously not great. Regardless, I think you're trying to make Harbaugh's recruiting seem worse than it is, basing it much more on his recent class. No reason to panic.
In that time A&M was 17, 10 and 16. We'll see how much Jimbo can affect that.
Wisconsin is a mostly white nerd team that will never win a national championship. Is that your goal? How many 5th year seniors starting do Bama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc. have? Don’t look to Wisconsin as an example if you want to win really big. If you want to win 10 games a year, then go emulate Wisconsin. Otherwise not relevant.
I never said true freshmen OL should play (though again, many of the big time squads have had those).
And I concede A&M didn’t recruit enough (in fact wrote lengthy blog posts about as much on NSD both 2015 and 16). Jimbo will affect that don’t you worry. Sumlin was an overrated recruiter, never addressed needs, and loved to load up on 4 star receivers while they rest of the SEC stacked the front 7 .
Wisconsin is a mostly white nerd team that will never win a national championship. Is that your goal? How many 5th year seniors starting do Bama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc. have? Don’t look to Wisconsin as an example if you want to win really big. If you want to win 10 games a year, then go emulate Wisconsin. Otherwise not relevant.
I never said true freshmen OL should play (though again, many of the big time squads have had those).
And I concede A&M didn’t recruit enough (in fact wrote lengthy blog posts about as much on NSD both 2015 and 16). Jimbo will affect that don’t you worry. Sumlin was an overrated recruiter, never addressed needs, and loved to load up on 4 star receivers while they rest of the SEC stacked the front 7 .
"White nerd team"... Really? Smh.
I was only referring to their OL btw, which one s 100% worth emulating. Team's without bagmen generally find those redshirts for OL very useful.
Michigan has has true Freshman OL play too. Very very rarely. Guys like Jake Long. It is something that is almost always a bad idea.
This is just degrading as a conversation now though (as Gip keeps chirping up on the sides). Michigan's current OL predicament is partially on Hoke, partially on Harbaugh. You can either take that from the fan and alum that has followed this all very closely for years and years.... or you could just think what you want. It isn't worth the dead end back and forth we've gotten to now.
Good luck against Clemson. I'll legitimately be rooting for you guys as the underdog.
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Wisconsin is a mostly white nerd team that will never win a national championship. Is that your goal? How many 5th year seniors starting do Bama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc. have? Don’t look to Wisconsin as an example if you want to win really big. If you want to win 10 games a year, then go emulate Wisconsin. Otherwise not relevant.
I never said true freshmen OL should play (though again, many of the big time squads have had those).
And I concede A&M didn’t recruit enough (in fact wrote lengthy blog posts about as much on NSD both 2015 and 16). Jimbo will affect that don’t you worry. Sumlin was an overrated recruiter, never addressed needs, and loved to load up on 4 star receivers while they rest of the SEC stacked the front 7 .
"White nerd team"... Really? Smh.
I was only referring to their OL btw, which one s 100% worth emulating. Team's without bagmen generally find those redshirts for OL very useful.
Michigan has has true Freshman OL play too. Very very rarely. Guys like Jake Long. It is something that is almost always a bad idea.
This is just degrading as a conversation now though (as Gip keeps chirping up on the sides). Michigan's current OL predicament is partially on Hoke, partially on Harbaugh. You can either take that from the fan and alum that has followed this all very closely for years and years.... or you could just think what you want. It isn't worth the dead end back and forth we've gotten to now.
Good luck against Clemson. I'll legitimately be rooting for you guys as the underdog.
"White nerd team"... Really? Smh.
I was only referring to their OL btw, which one s 100% worth emulating. Team's without bagmen generally find those redshirts for OL very useful.
Michigan has has true Freshman OL play too. Very very rarely. Guys like Jake Long. It is something that is almost always a bad idea.
This is just degrading as a conversation now though (as Gip keeps chirping up on the sides). Michigan's current OL predicament is partially on Hoke, partially on Harbaugh. You can either take that from the fan and alum that has followed this all very closely for years and years.... or you could just think what you want. It isn't worth the dead end back and forth we've gotten to now.
Good luck against Clemson. I'll legitimately be rooting for you guys as the underdog.
It degrades as a conversation because your claims are specious, and it is just you making excuses that have nothing to do with reality. Again...NAME all those players who are starters on that team that were recruited by Hoke, and not by Harbaugh! If there are any, which I doubt, then Harbaugh must have seen something in them worthy of keeping. And that is on him. And if they are not performing well, then that is on him as well because he has had like 4 years now to coach them.
I mean, that would be like us blaming Luke Fickell for the fact that the Buckeyes did so poorly vs. Iowa last year.
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nick looking his usual today. Except on one play they're going to clown him so hard for in film on mon. Lined up over tackle with a TE shading him to his right. He noobed it and never checked the TE off.....got absolutely stole on by said TE. snotbubbled. Straight down on his a.ss before he even got to engage with the tackle. ?
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