Tom's post game synopsis
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Doesn't Hue like to run then have a strong arm throw deep when the defense brings guys up to stop the run....??? This dink and dump seems to be more on Haley than Hue.
Doesn't Hue like to run then have a strong arm throw deep when the defense brings guys up to stop the run....??? This dink and dump seems to be more on Haley than Hue.
Man, Hoorta attacked me for this. No back-patting, but I never liked Haley, and believe the Steeler O is better off without him. He made Ben a dink and dump QB. I will say it again, Coordinators are nothing more than coffee fetchers. They design and implement the philosophy that the Head Coach wants. Hue said it in Hard Knocks and I said it here, Hue calls these shots. Sadly, Haley is also a dink-and-dump thinker.
Taylor IS good at not making bad decisions, but as you saw Sunday, he is a Sockeyed passer. He has 2 dimensions
- He has a nice, quick release when his primary target is open.
- He is fleet of foot and can extend a play for someone to come open
What he does not possess is the ability to consistently deliver accurate, timely passes. I don't know why Dorsey and Hue brought this guy in. He isn't going to improve this team nor will he grow it. His lack of ability to put sustained drives together is going to wear the defense out and cause defensive fatigue injuries.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Of course, any lack of discipline has to be put at the feet of the HC.
Though, I guess, if we are doing comparisons, Tomlin too would have to be criticised here for the same thing. If "penalty yards" is an indicator of team discipline, the Steelers actually had more penalty yards than the Browns.
So, there is that.
Nevertheless, as I heard on the radio this morning when a commentator was asked: "What do you have to say about those who want to see Mayfield in there", the response was: Be patient. It will eventually happen, but he is just not quite ready to go right now".
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Of course, any lack of discipline has to be put at the feet of the HC.
Though, I guess, if we are doing comparisons, Tomlin too would have to be criticised here for the same thing. If "penalty yards" is an indicator of team discipline, the Steelers actually had more penalty yards than the Browns.
So, there is that.
Nevertheless, as I heard on the radio this morning when a commentator was asked: "What do you have to say about those who want to see Mayfield in there", the response was: Be patient. It will eventually happen, but he is just not quite ready to go right now".
Of course, any lack of discipline has to be put at the feet of the HC.
Though, I guess, if we are doing comparisons, Tomlin too would have to be criticised here for the same thing. If "penalty yards" is an indicator of team discipline, the Steelers actually had more penalty yards than the Browns.
So, there is that.
Nevertheless, as I heard on the radio this morning when a commentator was asked: "What do you have to say about those who want to see Mayfield in there", the response was: Be patient. It will eventually happen, but he is just not quite ready to go right now".
The issue here is not the Steelers Gip. Your response is somewhat like the speeder who tell the cop, " the guy in front of me was just as bad". So what you are saying is, it's okay to lack discipline because the other guys do, too?
As I said, when I saw the Hue's first preseason game featured the same lack of discipline, I labeled him a dud. I maintain that I was correct, and for that very reason.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
I was not happy with the game or the outcome (although a tie ends the losing streak, it does not end the winless streak)
Our offense was absolutely terrible. We couldn't run and we couldn't throw. Aside from that, what's left for an offense to contribute. The OLine appeared to be a mess. Njoku drops balls. It's only one game but it looks like our defense is gonna stink because they'll be playing the whole game. And our coach passed up a FG on 4th and 10 (ish) when it was looking for all the world like we couldn't have converted a 4th and 3. In the end those points would've been golden. - I do not like Hue's game-day decision making.
Many are happy about our 'progress' by not losing. But, to me, it was the Steelers getting complacent and sloppy because they saw we could do nothing with the ball. I am not confident in our ability to win games......again.
I didn't copy your comments but will address them in no particular order.
I don't know that sitting Mayfield allows the OL to become competent. Tyrod has a style and lets 's say the OL does become tighter, it is going to be around his play selection, his timing, and his nuances. If he was the same type of QB that Baker is, then I get it, but it seems to me if the OL becomes settled with Tyrod, the entrance of Baker will cause more mixups. I just don't understand what 6 - 8 weeks more, for instance, is going to do for Baker that starting now won't do?
Tyrod was really land-locked with all the zone coverages. I guess he is better than Kizer, but I am not gung-ho that that is the case. I think he stinks bad.
I never complain either way about penalties, but I think the one on Gordon was one of those 50/50 things and we lost. Still, it is about discipline.
Finally, I am going to maintain my position that discipline is the Browns #1 problem and it has been for awhile. Here is one of my life experiences that makes me believe this. When I was taking music lessons, I always did well, but I had one Maestro who really pushed me to the wall with very difficult pieces. When I first studied with him, day one he played the finished work and my jaw would drop....I wanted to play like that. And so I practiced like a man posessed. Hours I practiced and my performance sounded like crap compared to his. After 3 weeks of crap performance and frustration, he pulled my accordion aside and gave me a word of advice. He told me I was not ready to play songs, and instead needed to properly, slowly, practice scales, arpeggios, chord inversions, and finger independence exercises. For 18 months, that way 80% of what I did. It was grueling, drudgery, and it was the only time in my life I thought about quitting my lessons. However, at the end of that training, he handed me the pice I struggled with, it was still difficult, but by me next week's lesson, my performance matched my Maestro. Today, even as my hands lose the flexibility of my youth, I can rip off even the most difficult pieces without too much effort.
It is a grave mistake to believe that practice makes perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Discipline is the foundation of our work. Without a foundation, we simply lay bricks over sand and scratch our heads as to why we are not getting good results.
When I say that Hue Jackson's first preseason team was making more mistakes than the last year's team, I wanted him gone. I just do not believe that all the improvement in talent will make much of a difference when the team is not disciplined and not of a single mind.
We will see.
inally, I am going to maintain my position that discipline is the Browns #1 problem and it has been for awhile. Here is one of my life experiences that makes me believe this. When I was taking music lessons, I always did well, but I had one Maestro who really pushed me to the wall with very difficult pieces. When I first studied with him, day one he played the finished work and my jaw would drop....I wanted to play like that. And so I practiced like a man posessed. Hours I practiced and my performance sounded like crap compared to his. After 3 weeks of crap performance and frustration, he pulled my accordion aside and gave me a word of advice. He told me I was not ready to play songs, and instead needed to properly, slowly, practice scales, arpeggios, chord inversions, and finger independence exercises. For 18 months, that way 80% of what I did. It was grueling, drudgery, and it was the only time in my life I thought about quitting my lessons. However, at the end of that training, he handed me the pice I struggled with, it was still difficult, but by me next week's lesson, my performance matched my Maestro. Today, even as my hands lose the flexibility of my youth, I can rip off even the most difficult pieces without too much effort.
You practiced harder than I did. I did my 45 minutes (hour) and went outside to play.
The difference in NFL football though is that you HAVE to play the piece the Sunday after Labor Day. The performers should already know the scales and chord progressions. There's only a certain amount of time in today's shortened 'player's union' offseason. You can't be spending a ton of time on remedial stuff when installing a whole new offense. Now, what we're doing with the OL is exceptionally challenging because you've got guys playing different positions than they're used to. Now you have to go back and tweak their remedials. This is why consistency is so important. Us, we're learning new playbooks and coaches all the time. AND might yet again if Hue gets the heave-ho at some point.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Of course, any lack of discipline has to be put at the feet of the HC.
Though, I guess, if we are doing comparisons, Tomlin too would have to be criticised here for the same thing. If "penalty yards" is an indicator of team discipline, the Steelers actually had more penalty yards than the Browns.
So, there is that.
Nevertheless, as I heard on the radio this morning when a commentator was asked: "What do you have to say about those who want to see Mayfield in there", the response was: Be patient. It will eventually happen, but he is just not quite ready to go right now".
The issue here is not the Steelers Gip. Your response is somewhat like the speeder who tell the cop, " the guy in front of me was just as bad". So what you are saying is, it's okay to lack discipline because the other guys do, too?
As I said, when I saw the Hue's first preseason game featured the same lack of discipline, I labeled him a dud. I maintain that I was correct, and for that very reason.
The issue here is not the Steelers Gip. Your response is somewhat like the speeder who tell the cop, " the guy in front of me was just as bad". So what you are saying is, it's okay to lack discipline because the other guys do, too?
As I said, when I saw the Hue's first preseason game featured the same lack of discipline, I labeled him a dud. I maintain that I was correct, and for that very reason.
I didn't say that the issue was the Steelers. I was just making a comparison. But you, as a Steeler fan, cannot be happy about the lack of discipline that they displayed any more than we cannot be happy with Hue for the same reason.
But, I will grant you this certainly: this lack of discipline on the part of Tomlin's team seemed abberant, whereas, you are right, on the part of Hue.....it seems standard operating procedure.
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I'm sure it's been mentioned but it doesn't seem to me that Tyrod Taylor has been known as a run-first quarterback? Maybe nobody was open or maybe he just didn't see them or have a clue or possibly just afraid to throw the ball in the bad weather. But maybe if only for this one game it was the true definition of black Tarkington. If he stays on the Run first train he's going to get killed. Also it's easy to blame coach Jackson but he's not calling these plays. 1st and 10 of The Middle.
WSS
1I said this on another thread---when Tyrod had time, when he wasn't running for his life, the game announcers frequently said that no one was open. Which I find rather troubling, seeing as how that for the last two weeks I've read on this forum that the Steeler secondary is weak.
I said this on another thread---when Tyrod had time, when he wasn't running for his life, the game announcers frequently said that no one was open. Which I find rather troubling, seeing as how that for the last two weeks I've read on this forum that the Steeler secondary is weak.
TBH, with our skill set on offense I just find this hard to believe. What I can much more easily believe is that they were "NFL open" and Tyrod being the guy he is/the weather just didn't wanna throw that pass. Can't have it though if you wanna win football games.
I've had a chance to watch the condensed football games and I've seen all the highlights. One thing I notice is how other teams finish off defensive takeaways and SCORE the ball. 6 turnovers and we didn't score it ONCE? You could say Peppers kind of did, but he DIDN'T did he? In fact, he darn near turned it over after getting nailed by the EFFING QUARTERBACK and fumbling! How does he not just secure the ball and get in? How is that possible? When we drafted him, I kept hearing about him being a playmaker and all that jazz. Well, he's a MISERABLE punt returner, and I think we all know that now. I mean, he's AWFUL. Playmaker? A playmaker doesn't fumble the ball after getting drilled by the freaking QB. Pathetic, and we're lucky it didn't cost us. It was such a Browns thing to do...I almost can't believe it wasn't a touchback.
And to think that doesn't even include fair catching the ball when there literally wasn't a defender within 10 yards of the guy. I'm not exaggerating that I could have run the ball for 15 yards on that play, which would have been an incredible opportunity to put it away. On top of the fact we're still playing the mofo 45 yards off the ball, I'm unsure of how long that experiment can go on.
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inally, I am going to maintain my position that discipline is the Browns #1 problem and it has been for awhile. Here is one of my life experiences that makes me believe this. When I was taking music lessons, I always did well, but I had one Maestro who really pushed me to the wall with very difficult pieces. When I first studied with him, day one he played the finished work and my jaw would drop....I wanted to play like that. And so I practiced like a man posessed. Hours I practiced and my performance sounded like crap compared to his. After 3 weeks of crap performance and frustration, he pulled my accordion aside and gave me a word of advice. He told me I was not ready to play songs, and instead needed to properly, slowly, practice scales, arpeggios, chord inversions, and finger independence exercises. For 18 months, that way 80% of what I did. It was grueling, drudgery, and it was the only time in my life I thought about quitting my lessons. However, at the end of that training, he handed me the pice I struggled with, it was still difficult, but by me next week's lesson, my performance matched my Maestro. Today, even as my hands lose the flexibility of my youth, I can rip off even the most difficult pieces without too much effort.
You practiced harder than I did. I did my 45 minutes (hour) and went outside to play.
The difference in NFL football though is that you HAVE to play the piece the Sunday after Labor Day. The performers should already know the scales and chord progressions. There's only a certain amount of time in today's shortened 'player's union' offseason. You can't be spending a ton of time on remedial stuff when installing a whole new offense. Now, what we're doing with the OL is exceptionally challenging because you've got guys playing different positions than they're used to. Now you have to go back and tweak their remedials. This is why consistency is so important. Us, we're learning new playbooks and coaches all the time. AND might yet again if Hue gets the heave-ho at some point.
You practiced harder than I did. I did my 45 minutes (hour) and went outside to play.
The difference in NFL football though is that you HAVE to play the piece the Sunday after Labor Day. The performers should already know the scales and chord progressions. There's only a certain amount of time in today's shortened 'player's union' offseason. You can't be spending a ton of time on remedial stuff when installing a whole new offense. Now, what we're doing with the OL is exceptionally challenging because you've got guys playing different positions than they're used to. Now you have to go back and tweak their remedials. This is why consistency is so important. Us, we're learning new playbooks and coaches all the time. AND might yet again if Hue gets the heave-ho at some point.
I totally disagree. The proof of my philosophy is in the pudding. What advantage have you seen in the Browns by ignoring discipline and focusing on the performance? 1 - 31 - 1. And mark my words, this team is going to lose a good amount of games because of these same issues.
Discipline is the fundamental building block. The Browns will go nowhere like this.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
The issue here is not the Steelers Gip. Your response is somewhat like the speeder who tell the cop, " the guy in front of me was just as bad". So what you are saying is, it's okay to lack discipline because the other guys do, too?
As I said, when I saw the Hue's first preseason game featured the same lack of discipline, I labeled him a dud. I maintain that I was correct, and for that very reason.
I didn't say that the issue was the Steelers. I was just making a comparison. But you, as a Steeler fan, cannot be happy about the lack of discipline that they displayed any more than we cannot be happy with Hue for the same reason.
But, I will grant you this certainly: this lack of discipline on the part of Tomlin's team seemed abberant, whereas, you are right, on the part of Hue.....it seems standard operating procedure.
I didn't say that the issue was the Steelers. I was just making a comparison. But you, as a Steeler fan, cannot be happy about the lack of discipline that they displayed any more than we cannot be happy with Hue for the same reason.
But, I will grant you this certainly: this lack of discipline on the part of Tomlin's team seemed abberant, whereas, you are right, on the part of Hue.....it seems standard operating procedure.
THAT is the point. You have however missed Hoortas message. You had to address ME in your post. Stick to the topic bro. WHen your post addresses the poster, you ask for a return of fire, and then the board becomes a war zone. You guys love to cast stones, but you just can't live by your own rules.
The point was, Hue's lack of discipline is a problem, and you agreed with me. SO if I WAS a Steeler fan, how would that apply to the point I am making? I Promise you, posters here will not be able to follow my lead in sticking to football, Just watch.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
You practiced harder than I did. I did my 45 minutes (hour) and went outside to play.
The difference in NFL football though is that you HAVE to play the piece the Sunday after Labor Day. The performers should already know the scales and chord progressions. There's only a certain amount of time in today's shortened 'player's union' offseason. You can't be spending a ton of time on remedial stuff when installing a whole new offense. Now, what we're doing with the OL is exceptionally challenging because you've got guys playing different positions than they're used to. Now you have to go back and tweak their remedials. This is why consistency is so important. Us, we're learning new playbooks and coaches all the time. AND might yet again if Hue gets the heave-ho at some point.
I totally disagree. The proof of my philosophy is in the pudding. What advantage have you seen in the Browns by ignoring discipline and focusing on the performance? 1 - 31 - 1. And mark my words, this team is going to lose a good amount of games because of these same issues.
Discipline is the fundamental building block. The Browns will go nowhere like this.
I totally disagree. The proof of my philosophy is in the pudding. What advantage have you seen in the Browns by ignoring discipline and focusing on the performance? 1 - 31 - 1. And mark my words, this team is going to lose a good amount of games because of these same issues.
Discipline is the fundamental building block. The Browns will go nowhere like this.
Part of it, as I see, is the massive turmoil they underwent in terms of their personnell.....on both lines. They switched positions like two days before the game....and one of the other guys barely played at all in the preseason. As you have said, an OL needs continuity to congeal. (and I say the same goes for the DL). And we just have not had that here after one game. Maybe, all the new faces in new places will get it together a bit more after now being there for like all of one week.
So, again, maybe patience is required here as well as at the QB spot. We do have 31 new players from last year's team. And a number of those brought in in just the last week.
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Doesn't Hue like to run then have a strong arm throw deep when the defense brings guys up to stop the run....??? This dink and dump seems to be more on Haley than Hue.
Man, Hoorta attacked me for this. No back-patting, but I never liked Haley, and believe the Steeler O is better off without him. He made Ben a dink and dump QB. I will say it again, Coordinators are nothing more than coffee fetchers. They design and implement the philosophy that the Head Coach wants. Hue said it in Hard Knocks and I said it here, Hue calls these shots. Sadly, Haley is also a dink-and-dump thinker.
Taylor IS good at not making bad decisions, but as you saw Sunday, he is a Sockeyed passer. He has 2 dimensions
- He has a nice, quick release when his primary target is open.
- He is fleet of foot and can extend a play for someone to come open
What he does not possess is the ability to consistently deliver accurate, timely passes. I don't know why Dorsey and Hue brought this guy in. He isn't going to improve this team nor will he grow it. His lack of ability to put sustained drives together is going to wear the defense out and cause defensive fatigue injuries.
Man, Hoorta attacked me for this. No back-patting, but I never liked Haley, and believe the Steeler O is better off without him. He made Ben a dink and dump QB. I will say it again, Coordinators are nothing more than coffee fetchers. They design and implement the philosophy that the Head Coach wants. Hue said it in Hard Knocks and I said it here, Hue calls these shots. Sadly, Haley is also a dink-and-dump thinker.
Taylor IS good at not making bad decisions, but as you saw Sunday, he is a Sockeyed passer. He has 2 dimensions
- He has a nice, quick release when his primary target is open.
- He is fleet of foot and can extend a play for someone to come open
What he does not possess is the ability to consistently deliver accurate, timely passes. I don't know why Dorsey and Hue brought this guy in. He isn't going to improve this team nor will he grow it. His lack of ability to put sustained drives together is going to wear the defense out and cause defensive fatigue injuries.
I'm still not sure about Haley and Williams just being coffee fetchers for Hue. Witness Gordon starting when Hue said all week he wasn't going to, or Williams usually playing his angel safety in a different area code than the ball- even when it's third and short. That's something entirely different than Hue's pal Ray Horton "hears a Hoo" did on defense.
Me and Stan saw the same thing at the game what you're saying. And it was still the case, a lot of times our guys weren't open. That's why Tyrod has such a great TD to interception ratio. He doesn't want to take chances getting picked off. Now was that because the Steelers defense is that good, or the conditions were that bad? His one badly under thrown ball that got picked off intended for Gordon would have been an easy TD for Josh if he had tossed it a little further.
I suppose what Bills fans were telling us about Tyrod are in fact true- he's an average to below average (not bad) quarterback, that won't lose you games, but he won't win them for you either. It's possible we may see Baker sooner rather than later. Especially if we're 0-2-1. We all may have overestimated our odds of beating the Jets after they laid that a$$ whuppin' on the Lions last night.
I'm not going to be too harsh after one game but if Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick can lay 48 points on the Saints defense, Taylor is going to start running out of excuses- fast.
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I didn't say that the issue was the Steelers. I was just making a comparison. But you, as a Steeler fan, cannot be happy about the lack of discipline that they displayed any more than we cannot be happy with Hue for the same reason.
But, I will grant you this certainly: this lack of discipline on the part of Tomlin's team seemed abberant, whereas, you are right, on the part of Hue.....it seems standard operating procedure.
THAT is the point. You have however missed Hoortas message. You had to address ME in your post. Stick to the topic bro. WHen your post addresses the poster, you ask for a return of fire, and then the board becomes a war zone. You guys love to cast stones, but you just can't live by your own rules.
The point was, Hue's lack of discipline is a problem, and you agreed with me. SO if I WAS a Steeler fan, how would that apply to the point I am making? I Promise you, posters here will not be able to follow my lead in sticking to football, Just watch.
THAT is the point. You have however missed Hoortas message. You had to address ME in your post.
I responded to your post, not to you. (or, if I did, it was in terms of a positive response to what you have said over the years)
Stick to the topic bro.
I am under NO obligation to do so. But, actually, I did do so. The subject was team discipline. And I simply discussed that aspect involving both teams in this last game.
WHen your post addresses the poster, you ask for a return of fire, and then the board becomes a war zone. You guys love to cast stones, but you just can't live by your own rules.
I think this is just you being prototypicaly narcissistic. Everything has to be about YOU. Almost nothing of my post was about you (except my reference to you as a steeler fan).
The point was, Hue's lack of discipline is a problem, and you agreed with me.
Yes, I did....but that that is not an issue that you all of a sudden discovered...so don't think it is about you.
SO if I WAS a Steeler fan, how would that apply to the point I am making?
Who said it does apply to your point. Your point was that Hue's team lacked discipline. I agreed. I added that the Steelers too lacked discipline. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, I fail to see why you are getting so warm over a truthful trifle. My reference was to the two teams playing each other. See below, I don't have to just stick to those two if I don't want.
I Promise you, posters here will not be able to follow my lead in sticking to football, Just watch.
What makes you think that any of us ever intend to follow your lead? I don't follow your lead by any means. I mean, you are getting all grumpy butt over the fact that I diverged from "your lead" to a very much related tangent.
Team discipline in the NFL!!!! Did you see the Lions play last night? They had none either. And that was one of the great BBs boys leading that team there. Never seen a BB team with such lack of discipline, have you? (so, you see, I can talk about lack of discipline about any team I want, Browns/Steelers/Lions/Goat Ropers/whomever. I certainly do not need to be put on a leash regarding my commentary.
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I'll just add in, there's a difference in difference of opinion, and vicious personal attacks with name calling. The latter is what we're trying to avoid.
I'll just add in, there's a difference in difference of opinion, and vicious personal attacks with name calling. The latter is what we're trying to avoid.
OK, I apologize to Ghoolie, to you, to the entire Board for calling him a Steeler fan. I understand that that is about the most vicious personal attack one person can make to another human being. Mea Culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
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he's ...MISERABLE
...post again later after you calm down from watching.
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Man, Hoorta attacked me for this. No back-patting, but I never liked Haley, and believe the Steeler O is better off without him. He made Ben a dink and dump QB. I will say it again, Coordinators are nothing more than coffee fetchers. They design and implement the philosophy that the Head Coach wants. Hue said it in Hard Knocks and I said it here, Hue calls these shots. Sadly, Haley is also a dink-and-dump thinker.
Taylor IS good at not making bad decisions, but as you saw Sunday, he is a Sockeyed passer. He has 2 dimensions
- He has a nice, quick release when his primary target is open.
- He is fleet of foot and can extend a play for someone to come open
What he does not possess is the ability to consistently deliver accurate, timely passes. I don't know why Dorsey and Hue brought this guy in. He isn't going to improve this team nor will he grow it. His lack of ability to put sustained drives together is going to wear the defense out and cause defensive fatigue injuries.
I'm still not sure about Haley and Williams just being coffee fetchers for Hue. Witness Gordon starting when Hue said all week he wasn't going to, or Williams usually playing his angel safety in a different area code than the ball- even when it's third and short. That's something entirely different than Hue's pal Ray Horton "hears a Hoo" did on defense.
Me and Stan saw the same thing at the game what you're saying. And it was still the case, a lot of times our guys weren't open. That's why Tyrod has such a great TD to interception ratio. He doesn't want to take chances getting picked off. Now was that because the Steelers defense is that good, or the conditions were that bad? His one badly under thrown ball that got picked off intended for Gordon would have been an easy TD for Josh if he had tossed it a little further.
I suppose what Bills fans were telling us about Tyrod are in fact true- he's an average to below average (not bad) quarterback, that won't lose you games, but he won't win them for you either. It's possible we may see Baker sooner rather than later. Especially if we're 0-2-1. We all may have overestimated our odds of beating the Jets after they laid that a$$ whuppin' on the Lions last night.
I'm not going to be too harsh after one game but if Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick can lay 48 points on the Saints defense, Taylor is going to start running out of excuses- fast.
I'm still not sure about Haley and Williams just being coffee fetchers for Hue. Witness Gordon starting when Hue said all week he wasn't going to, or Williams usually playing his angel safety in a different area code than the ball- even when it's third and short. That's something entirely different than Hue's pal Ray Horton "hears a Hoo" did on defense.
Me and Stan saw the same thing at the game what you're saying. And it was still the case, a lot of times our guys weren't open. That's why Tyrod has such a great TD to interception ratio. He doesn't want to take chances getting picked off. Now was that because the Steelers defense is that good, or the conditions were that bad? His one badly under thrown ball that got picked off intended for Gordon would have been an easy TD for Josh if he had tossed it a little further.
I suppose what Bills fans were telling us about Tyrod are in fact true- he's an average to below average (not bad) quarterback, that won't lose you games, but he won't win them for you either. It's possible we may see Baker sooner rather than later. Especially if we're 0-2-1. We all may have overestimated our odds of beating the Jets after they laid that a$$ whuppin' on the Lions last night.
I'm not going to be too harsh after one game but if Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick can lay 48 points on the Saints defense, Taylor is going to start running out of excuses- fast.
1) Coffee Fetcher culture - Let me be a bit tamer, and most likely realistic. In an ideal situation the HC, OC, and DC are a well-oiled machine. My belief that Hue is the boss and that the coordinators do what Hue tells them was at least hinted at on HBO. And honestly, it makes sense, an HC has to do it his way. If not, then his reputation is that he can't lead and is just a figurehead. It would virtually eliminate future coaching opportunities. At the same time, if the wheels start to fall off the wagon, the every-man-for-himself culture takes over.
You and I don't really know what the relationships are, and jeez Larry, would you have ever thought 1 - 31 would see Hue keeping his job? I think you will agree, the FO dynamic is one Rubic's Cube.
2) I have a disagreement with you on Tyrod. Doug Dieken announced repeatedly that Tyrod's passes were late and poorly thrown. On a couple occasions, one with a Jarvis Landry shoe-top catch, he lamented this more vehemently. I have a prejudice against run-first QBs, and I believe this is Tyron's main problem. Dieken said repeatedly that Tyron looked uncomfortable and puzzled in the pocket. Larry, I have seen this too many times for it not to be familiar. I believe Tyrod is smart, and does make good decisions, but because of his training and coaching, I believe this....He takes a snap, if the quick banger is there, he is very good at hitting it - if it is not he goes into scramble mode...if scrambling buys him an open receiver, he hits it with less efficiency.....or he runs. He isn't like Ben. Ben scrambles and stay committed to passing. Tyron scrambles but has no focus, other than a random athletic action.
He just isn't a winner. He is not a guy who is going to punish people week in and week out. His athletic ability will make some good stuff happen, but at the end of the day a QB has to be able to shred with his arm, Tyrod is not that caliber of player. Did the Steelers expose him with their zone puzzles? Next week will be interesting to watch.
3) Regarding the Jets - I wouldn't worry about it. It looks like Darnold is going to be a damned good QB. That doesn't mean we missed the boat. ours may be as good, maybe better. We don't know yet. My concerns are the same, and again, Dieken said something very telling that reinforced how I feel.
When the Steelers were up 21-7, just under 8 minutes to go at midfield, they were marching and he said, " what you are looking at now is a tired defense, they have been out there a long time". And it was a good observation. The Steelers self-destructed, but indeed they whipped our D, and our team. This team has enough talent to win games if we had an aggressive offense to stretch the field and extend drives. However, if this dink-and-dump stuff doesn't change, our D, even vastly improved, are going to get shagged out.
I don't like TieRod, I think he jeopardizes the health of our D....via fatigue. I don't like Hue, I never did. I hope you are right about Haley and I hope his dink-and-dump crap is by Hue's doing. I don't like that the same lack of discipline and focus that has given us heartbreak over and over, is still continuing. How the hell does that FG get blocked? Jesus, can't these a-holes execute anything? Last year a dropped Coleman pass, this year a blocked FG? I want to get druni just typing this.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
WTF is "Tom"?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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I'm still not sure about Haley and Williams just being coffee fetchers for Hue. Witness Gordon starting when Hue said all week he wasn't going to, or Williams usually playing his angel safety in a different area code than the ball- even when it's third and short. That's something entirely different than Hue's pal Ray Horton "hears a Hoo" did on defense.
Me and Stan saw the same thing at the game what you're saying. And it was still the case, a lot of times our guys weren't open. That's why Tyrod has such a great TD to interception ratio. He doesn't want to take chances getting picked off. Now was that because the Steelers defense is that good, or the conditions were that bad? His one badly under thrown ball that got picked off intended for Gordon would have been an easy TD for Josh if he had tossed it a little further.
I suppose what Bills fans were telling us about Tyrod are in fact true- he's an average to below average (not bad) quarterback, that won't lose you games, but he won't win them for you either. It's possible we may see Baker sooner rather than later. Especially if we're 0-2-1. We all may have overestimated our odds of beating the Jets after they laid that a$$ whuppin' on the Lions last night.
I'm not going to be too harsh after one game but if Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick can lay 48 points on the Saints defense, Taylor is going to start running out of excuses- fast.
1) Coffee Fetcher culture - Let me be a bit tamer, and most likely realistic. In an ideal situation the HC, OC, and DC are a well-oiled machine. My belief that Hue is the boss and that the coordinators do what Hue tells them was at least hinted at on HBO. And honestly, it makes sense, an HC has to do it his way. If not, then his reputation is that he can't lead and is just a figurehead. It would virtually eliminate future coaching opportunities. At the same time, if the wheels start to fall off the wagon, the every-man-for-himself culture takes over.
You and I don't really know what the relationships are, and jeez Larry, would you have ever thought 1 - 31 would see Hue keeping his job? I think you will agree, the FO dynamic is one Rubic's Cube.
2) I have a disagreement with you on Tyrod. Doug Dieken announced repeatedly that Tyrod's passes were late and poorly thrown. On a couple occasions, one with a Jarvis Landry shoe-top catch, he lamented this more vehemently. I have a prejudice against run-first QBs, and I believe this is Tyron's main problem. Dieken said repeatedly that Tyron looked uncomfortable and puzzled in the pocket. Larry, I have seen this too many times for it not to be familiar. I believe Tyrod is smart, and does make good decisions, but because of his training and coaching, I believe this....He takes a snap, if the quick banger is there, he is very good at hitting it - if it is not he goes into scramble mode...if scrambling buys him an open receiver, he hits it with less efficiency.....or he runs. He isn't like Ben. Ben scrambles and stay committed to passing. Tyron scrambles but has no focus, other than a random athletic action.
He just isn't a winner. He is not a guy who is going to punish people week in and week out. His athletic ability will make some good stuff happen, but at the end of the day a QB has to be able to shred with his arm, Tyrod is not that caliber of player. Did the Steelers expose him with their zone puzzles? Next week will be interesting to watch.
3) Regarding the Jets - I wouldn't worry about it. It looks like Darnold is going to be a damned good QB. That doesn't mean we missed the boat. ours may be as good, maybe better. We don't know yet. My concerns are the same, and again, Dieken said something very telling that reinforced how I feel.
When the Steelers were up 21-7, just under 8 minutes to go at midfield, they were marching and he said, " what you are looking at now is a tired defense, they have been out there a long time". And it was a good observation. The Steelers self-destructed, but indeed they whipped our D, and our team. This team has enough talent to win games if we had an aggressive offense to stretch the field and extend drives. However, if this dink-and-dump stuff doesn't change, our D, even vastly improved, are going to get shagged out.
I don't like TieRod, I think he jeopardizes the health of our D....via fatigue. I don't like Hue, I never did. I hope you are right about Haley and I hope his dink-and-dump crap is by Hue's doing. I don't like that the same lack of discipline and focus that has given us heartbreak over and over, is still continuing. How the hell does that FG get blocked? Jesus, can't these a-holes execute anything? Last year a dropped Coleman pass, this year a blocked FG? I want to get druni just typing this.
I don't like TieRod, I think he jeopardizes the health of our D....via fatigue. I don't like Hue, I never did. I hope you are right about Haley and I hope his dink-and-dump crap is by Hue's doing. I don't like that the same lack of discipline and focus that has given us heartbreak over and over, is still continuing. How the hell does that FG get blocked? Jesus, can't these a-holes execute anything? Last year a dropped Coleman pass, this year a blocked FG? I want to get druni just typing this.
I put a detailed breakdown of why in another thread. On field goal tries, leverage is everything. (same as when you're running the ball on first and goal). Bitonio didn't get low enough on the snap. Ward got under him, stood him up and knocked him backward a couple feet (which wouldn't have happened if Joel had submarined him) and was able to get a hand up in the meantime high enough to block the kick. As my pal has pointed out- he was a physics major- you have to get the ball up in a big hurry as a kicker or it's going to get blocked. There's no margin for error on a missed assignment.
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You practiced harder than I did. I did my 45 minutes (hour) and went outside to play.
The difference in NFL football though is that you HAVE to play the piece the Sunday after Labor Day. The performers should already know the scales and chord progressions. There's only a certain amount of time in today's shortened 'player's union' offseason. You can't be spending a ton of time on remedial stuff when installing a whole new offense. Now, what we're doing with the OL is exceptionally challenging because you've got guys playing different positions than they're used to. Now you have to go back and tweak their remedials. This is why consistency is so important. Us, we're learning new playbooks and coaches all the time. AND might yet again if Hue gets the heave-ho at some point.
I totally disagree. The proof of my philosophy is in the pudding. What advantage have you seen in the Browns by ignoring discipline and focusing on the performance? 1 - 31 - 1. And mark my words, this team is going to lose a good amount of games because of these same issues.
Discipline is the fundamental building block. The Browns will go nowhere like this.
Discipline is the fundamental building block. The Browns will go nowhere like this.
I don't disagree.
The tie & Hue. - I don't think THIS tie helps Hue's projected HC longevity. Although we didn't lose to the Steelers, we didn't win a game in which we got 6 turnovers. One could still argue that THAT'S a pretty sad thing.
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Come on Gipper, the man is actually talking about football without all the nasty stuff and you still want to get on him?
Tom, you are correct that it is perfect practice makes perfect. But one caveat, when you were doing your practice, I dont imagine you had someone else there playing a different tune trying to mess you up. I get what you are trying to say, but there are always going to be mistakes. The game wasnt in network here, so I don't know the play you are referring to, but BB, Walsh, Jimmy Johnson, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, etc all have had these exact things happen. I know I have coaching. And I know that it wasnt from lack of preparation, it was a player trying to get a good jump to make a play. Beyond frustrating at the time though
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