Use of players on offense
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as i said in a different thread DUKE coming out of the backfield on a pass play pit's him against a linebacker split him out wide ? well i just see the same production vs a db
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
i meant to say I do not see the same production vs a DB
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Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
i meant to say I do not see the same production vs a DB
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as i said in a different thread DUKE coming out of the backfield on a pass play pit's him against a linebacker split him out wide ? well i just see the same production vs a db
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
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Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
did we over pay for Landry maybe but i am sure he would have gotton paid from someone else (also one thing you do not seem to understand is cleveland is not a premier destination for f.a's) what this team is lacking as of today is a true #1 receiver and if we had one it would help everything else fall into place
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So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
did we over pay for Landry maybe but i am sure he would have gotton paid from someone else (also one thing you do not seem to understand is cleveland is not a premier destination for f.a's) what this team is lacking as of today is a true #1 receiver and if we had one it would help everything else fall into place
did we over pay for Landry maybe but i am sure he would have gotton paid from someone else (also one thing you do not seem to understand is cleveland is not a premier destination for f.a's) what this team is lacking as of today is a true #1 receiver and if we had one it would help everything else fall into place
Nobody else wanted him. He caught a lot of balls which equalled nothing for the Dolphins the entire time he was there.
You don’t pay what we did for what he gives. We’ll get out of it when we can I am sure of that.
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Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
You got a problem with Jarvis Landry? No, I think he's great at what he does, as the other guys get better that will free up Landry to do what he does.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
u think that might be because he's being covered by a LB'er or a safety and not one of the 1st string DB's?
i mean, if u can show me a clip of him getting open in man coverage by one of the DB's........
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that being said i have no issues with certain schemes that move him from slot to RB and back again on the fly....that could throw some confusion around and possibly generate personnel mismatches. I dunno. But as a rule Duke should be thrown to out of the backfield or thrown up at the line as an extra rec but not without jarvis up there too. Otherwise the guy normally covering jarvis just covers duke.
the point of moving duke around is to.get a mismatch covering him
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as i said in a different thread DUKE coming out of the backfield on a pass play pit's him against a linebacker split him out wide ? well i just see the same production vs a db
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.
Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it.
Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.
Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.
Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.
Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.
You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure, a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.
He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.
Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.
My neighbor is a bears fan..He compares Hyde/Duke to Jordan Howard/Tarik Cohen..as a 2 man rotation..My issue with him is, we try to have a 3 man rotation getting N.Chubb some touches with Haley..Right now Cohen has played 1 less game (5). Cohens touches are 32-R/170y/5.3ypc/1td/21 rec./259y/12.3/catch/1 rec.td...Duke in 6 games 19R/111y/5.8ypc/0 td/14 rec/164y/11.7/catch/1 td..Matt Nagy's OC is Mark Helfrich..I'd say Haley has been fairly balanced, but Chubb 'is' stealing some of Dukes carries with a ypc very similar..Duke needs to see more passing targets though, not only on 3rd down
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i agree that chubb is stealing too many if dukes touches. If i were Haley id start winding down hydes touches in favor of chubb for a few weeks...let hyde recover and then start winding his touches up as chubb gets dialed back. Thats how u preserve two bell cows in case of accidental late season relevance.
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The thing I don’t get is the lack of middle screens to stop the pass rush. I would like to see duke used like Edelman is in New England. Also the short and deep outs Baker excelled at at ou. Not only would that help Calloway get his confidence back but open the seam for Njoku
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I would also like to see them put all three back on the field at the same time and run some rpo’s inside counter and wheel routs
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So you’re admitting we’ve paid a slot receiver $15m a year?
You are right but people have been claiming Landry is a #2 and some a #1
Its a terrible deal for the Browns they need to get out of. He can’t outrun any corner on the outside.
As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
You got a problem with Jarvis Landry? No, I think he's great at what he does, as the other guys get better that will free up Landry to do what he does.
Zombo
Zombo said:
You got a problem with Jarvis Landry? No, I think he's great at what he does, as the other guys get better that will free up Landry to do what he does.
Zombo
The Browns have got a huge problem with him. He’s a catcher that doesn’t score TD’s nor stretch defenses and if things don’t go his way he moans and bitches about it.
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As for Duke I’ve seen him do more on the outside and with the ball in his hands than Landry has ever done.
u think that might be because he's being covered by a LB'er or a safety and not one of the 1st string DB's?
i mean, if u can show me a clip of him getting open in man coverage by one of the DB's........
u think that might be because he's being covered by a LB'er or a safety and not one of the 1st string DB's?
i mean, if u can show me a clip of him getting open in man coverage by one of the DB's........
Lol you didn’t see Dukes TD in San Diego the other year then?
Google it yourself it’s not for me to validate your opinion
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Edit - it may have been Baltimore
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Zombo said:
You got a problem with Jarvis Landry? No, I think he's great at what he does, as the other guys get better that will free up Landry to do what he does.
Zombo
The Browns have got a huge problem with him. He’s a catcher that doesn’t score TD’s nor stretch defenses and if things don’t go his way he moans and bitches about it.
The Browns have got a huge problem with him. He’s a catcher that doesn’t score TD’s nor stretch defenses and if things don’t go his way he moans and bitches about it.
he's got a knee issue & has not bitched or moaned 1 time about it..there's a video at camp of a double move outside on Mitchell that Todd has not dialed up yet..maybe it's on the books for this week..the all 22 makes be think it's his right knee?
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u think that might be because he's being covered by a LB'er or a safety and not one of the 1st string DB's?
i mean, if u can show me a clip of him getting open in man coverage by one of the DB's........
Lol you didn’t see Dukes TD in San Diego the other year then?
Google it yourself it’s not for me to validate your opinion
Lol you didn’t see Dukes TD in San Diego the other year then?
Edit - it may have been Baltimore
is that wut ur talking about? he's completely blanketed but made a great read on an absolute sht throw that may not have even been intended for him.
Look all props to duke, that catch is exactly why we'd like to see him get more work as a rec out of the backfield. Pls understand tho that he's not going to be terribly good at this on an every down basis. He didnt really terribly seperate himself from that coverage, u see that right?
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all that video made me do is be thankful noodle arm hogan isnt our backup anymore
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Lol you didn’t see Dukes TD in San Diego the other year then?
Edit - it may have been Baltimore
is that wut ur talking about? he's completely blanketed but made a great read on an absolute sht throw that may not have even been intended for him.
Look all props to duke, that catch is exactly why we'd like to see him get more work as a rec out of the backfield. Pls understand tho that he's not going to be terribly good at this on an every down basis. He didnt really terribly seperate himself from that coverage, u see that right?
is that wut ur talking about? he's completely blanketed but made a great read on an absolute sht throw that may not have even been intended for him.
Look all props to duke, that catch is exactly why we'd like to see him get more work as a rec out of the backfield. Pls understand tho that he's not going to be terribly good at this on an every down basis. He didnt really terribly seperate himself from that coverage, u see that right?
No that’s not the one. It was a deep pass in the end zone he ran outside the corner and caught.
Anyway I’m baffled by this argument, it’s like people are looking for reasons to keep him off the field
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