Long term, was keeping Hue for an extra year a smart move for Browns?
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Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
No, he had a winless season. You clean house. Change the culture. DET did it.
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zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.
I am in no way a Hugh Jackson "fan" or a Hugh Jackson apologist.
And, I get it, he's an easy target with his record, and fans want his head.
But it seems that the fanbase seems all focused on Hugh now and not the players, and it's the players that have not been good enough.
I sat in the stands in Tampa the other day (and I have a peeling sunburn to prove it) and I don't think I thought of Hue Jackson once.
I thought why does the quarterback not secure the ball once he has a first down? Why is he throwing outlet passes when receivers are free down the field?
Why doesn't our pass pocket hold up longer?
Why do some receivers run lackadaisical routes and others continually drop passes?
Why don't we let the 3rd and longs develop instead of going for the checkdowns so soon?
Why do we miss so many tackles?
Why are some of the guys on Tampa wide open every down?
Where was the pass rush in the first half?
Where was the push from our offensive line on the QB sneak?
Where was the push from our special teams on the 59 yard field goal?
Why can't we make a big play without a penalty or a fumble?
And the answer was never "Hugh Jackson". It was players that were not good enough or not experienced enough.
They need to get bigger quick.
The only time I thought of the coaching staff Sunday was "they need to make adjustments at halftime" ... and they did.
Our players need to play better. They need to be better. I think the Jets are the only team we played where we clearly have more talent. So I think Hue is actually playing with house money this year, because he beat them and then beat and tied two other teams that clearly have better players (Baltimore and Pitt).
We are 5-2 against the spread, and one of those losses was in overtime, so Vegas clearly thinks we are playing above our heads so far this year.
Everyone wants to blame Hue because we are losing close games ... but not give him credit that we are IN close games every single week, with the exception of one.
We've got a bunch of players that need to turn potential in to production, and they need to do it by Sunday, because our organization needs this win.
I have no doubt that Hugh Jackson, Todd Haley and Gregg Williams did not become stupid when they moved to Cleveland, because they all had nice careers beforehand. They are dealing with young horses, injured horses ... but hungry horses ... I have not seen a lack of effort from these guys, nor have I seen anybody that left the system badmouth the coaches.
The coaches are NFL quality. It's time for the players to prove they are.
Zombo
Zombo said:
It's time for the players to prove they are.
Zombo
All well said Z. https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/26169/baker-mayfield-look-to-players-not-coaches-to-fix-offense
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I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
You heard anything on who Dorsey might favor? Maybe whispers from last year or anything? I have no clue. There's a part of me that wouldn't mind Haley. As frustrated as I was with the last game, after I read that film review article, I was less angry with Haley. We had opportunities for big plays and open receivers on almost all of the sacks we took. Baker is just young and didn't fire the ball. My only concern is that our offensive scheme is well-known to be very complex and difficult execute due to the long developing routes and decision making it places on the qb. And if you remember we tried to simplify things in the first half by throwing short passes, and that didn't work at all.
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Zombo said:
Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut.
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
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C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
Zombo said:
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
Dammit Z you just jinxed 'em. Now you know the refs will be watching us for that.?
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I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life...
Not really...
Jeff was a very good DC out of the Buddy Ryan school and when he had a good QB, e.g., Steve McNair, he posted two 13-3 seasons and added a third with Kerry Collins. Overall with McNair he was 81-63 with 23 of those loses coming in McNair's last two season with TN when injuries had him in decline.
That kind of performance tends to keep you employed.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
Good take, but also have to remember that Dorsey was told who his HC would be when he took the job.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
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Zombo said:
It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
So.... coaching?
Agree that the attention of many is being unduly diverted from players to Hue, but the reality is that we still are an incomplete squad even were we completely healthy.
Agree that the attention of many is being unduly diverted from players to Hue, but the reality is that we still are an incomplete squad even were we completely healthy.
Right, so why's everybody jumping on the Coach's ass if we're not there yet?
Again, Vegas thinks we outperformed five out of seven weeks.
Zombo
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Agree that the attention of many is being unduly diverted from players to Hue, but the reality is that we still are an incomplete squad even were we completely healthy.
Right, so why's everybody jumping on the Coach's ass if we're not there yet?
Again, Vegas thinks we outperformed five out of seven weeks.
Zombo
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Agree that the attention of many is being unduly diverted from players to Hue, but the reality is that we still are an incomplete squad even were we completely healthy.
Right, so why's everybody jumping on the Coach's ass if we're not there yet?
Again, Vegas thinks we outperformed five out of seven weeks.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Right, so why's everybody jumping on the Coach's butt if we're not there yet?
Again, Vegas thinks we outperformed five out of seven weeks.
Zombo
Because of his history of incompetence. I mean its an old saying that it takes a long time to earn trust....and very little to lose it. And when you have shown to be untrustworthy for a long time, it takes even longer to earn it.
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How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life...
Not really...
Jeff was a very good DC out of the Buddy Ryan school and when he had a good QB, e.g., Steve McNair, he posted two 13-3 seasons and added a third with Kerry Collins. Overall with McNair he was 81-63 with 23 of those loses coming in McNair's last two season with TN when injuries had him in decline.
That kind of performance tends to keep you employed.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
Good take, but also have to remember that Dorsey was told who his HC would be when he took the job.
Not really...
Jeff was a very good DC out of the Buddy Ryan school and when he had a good QB, e.g., Steve McNair, he posted two 13-3 seasons and added a third with Kerry Collins. Overall with McNair he was 81-63 with 23 of those loses coming in McNair's last two season with TN when injuries had him in decline.
That kind of performance tends to keep you employed.
He had exactly zero winning seasons in his last seven as head coach.
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Not really...
Jeff was a very good DC out of the Buddy Ryan school and when he had a good QB, e.g., Steve McNair, he posted two 13-3 seasons and added a third with Kerry Collins. Overall with McNair he was 81-63 with 23 of those loses coming in McNair's last two season with TN when injuries had him in decline.
That kind of performance tends to keep you employed.
He had exactly zero winning seasons in his last seven as head coach.
He had exactly zero winning seasons in his last seven as head coach.
Yup... never got over the hump with Bradford, Foles, Keenum, Austin Davis and "Sit'n'Learn" Goff as his QBs... but how many HCs have?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He had exactly zero winning seasons in his last seven as head coach.
Yup... never got over the hump with Bradford, Foles, Keenum, Austin Davis and "Sit'n'Learn" Goff as his QBs... but how many HCs have?
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I'm glad they kept Hue. I don't think he's great, but he needed to stay to see if he could get the ship pointed in the right direction. There's no way Dorsey or anybody could fix everything in one off season.
A lot of this season so far has been frustrating, with the penalties, stupid turnovers, and officiating. But, the team is generally heading in a positive direction for the most part. The Chargers game was the only lemon....let's hope that's the only one.
If they somehow pull off an upset in Pittsburgh, they're still in the race. Let's enjoy it for what it is....an improved football team.
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C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
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Zombo said:
I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game.
1st and goal on the steeler one. In overtime. Bubble screen. We lose. Thanks to Hue.
Don't you worry. I understand the magnitude of steeler week.
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Zombo said:
Haley calls the plays. Now he does.
Hugh has this rookie-laden team in six of seven games down to the gun. or, The Players have the team in games.
Z
I see Hue as an anchor that the team has to drag along while trying to beat the opponent and the refs.
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Zombo said:
Haley calls the plays. Now he does.
Hugh has this rookie-laden team in six of seven games down to the gun. or, The Players have the team in games.
Z
I see Hue as an anchor that the team has to drag along while trying to beat the opponent and the refs.
I see Hue as an anchor that the team has to drag along while trying to beat the opponent and the refs.
I see him as the guy coaching the players you are proud of.
When a veteran leaves the Browns and says something bad about Hugh, maybe I'll change my mind.
Right now, riding Joe Thomas over "Orion".
Zombo
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I see Hue as an anchor that the team has to drag along while trying to beat the opponent and the refs.
I see him as the guy coaching the players you are proud of.
When a veteran leaves the Browns and says something bad about Hugh, maybe I'll change my mind.
Right now, riding Joe Thomas over "Orion".
Zombo
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If the Browns get blown out by the Steelers (which imho they will), does Hue get fired?
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