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The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

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  • Bob806 Bob806B Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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    Bob806B Bob806 wrote on last edited by
    #2

    Agree 100% on Collins, he's nothing special at all. No motivation whatsoever I hate it. 

    I figured the Browns would hang around and make a game of it, which they pretty much did in the 1st half. We just aren't deep enough to compete 4 quarters with the top teams all the time (I know, we had the Saints beat, and coulda-shoulda, woulda vs the Steelers in week 1). 

    I didn't realize our secondary was so decimated. Had too many pops before the game lol....

    I hope Williams can right the ship and keep the team from bailing on what was a promising start to the season. Atlanta's coming in with just about the same level of offensive skill players as KC, it's gonna be tough.

    Karlis Missed
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    • Canton Mike Canton MikeC
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      Canton MikeC Canton Mike wrote on last edited by
      #3

      Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

      TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

      Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

      End of my rant.

      Mike

      IN DORSEY I TRUST
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      • jrb12711 jrb12711J Conversation Starter Reacting Well Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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        jrb12711J jrb12711 wrote on last edited by
        #4

        Hey man, just wanna say good job on the write-ups. Quality content on this forum is always appreciated.

        Honestly, my impression on the game is that we have dudes on offense who can make plays, just not enough. Chubb is looking stronger each week and Duke is still just making plays out there. Landry is a rock, and Njoku is the type of TE that thrives in the NFL. Mayfield is pushing through a lot of behind the scenes stuff and is showing the most promise at the position we've has since the team came back. The NFL is absolutely, 100% about offense moving forward. I'm confident in Dorsey to see this for the future for 

        1) hiring an OC minded HC and;

        2) getting more play makers via draft or free agency

        From a defensive perspective, honestly what did you guys think was going to happen? KC is the most explosive offense in the NFL and our unit was just depleted by the 2nd quarter. Our top four DB's (to include Mitchell) weren't suited up. Schobert on the inside wasn't there. It's clear other guys were hobbled out there and playing through. KC on the other hand has scored 30+ points in like 7? straight games against similar or better defenses. The only annoying thing is that we left points out there, which can and will improve.

        Point is, the NFL is moving to the Rams v Saints match-up, plain and simple. It's not a matter of who can make more stops, it's who can score more points. Let's get more guys on there on the field to help with that, whether that's on the Oline or skill positions.  Obviously defense can improve, but right now my draft board is all about offense.

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        • TexasAg1969 T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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          T TexasAg1969 wrote on last edited by
          #5

          That blitz on 2rd and 20 had me doing the same thing, "WTF are you thinking, just get the f'n stop!!" Played right into their hands at a real key point in the game. 

          But then later I said to myself that this game would  have gone far worse with the HueyHaley doubleblubble of trouble.

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          • Canton MikeC Canton Mike

            Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

            TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

            Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

            End of my rant.

            Mike

            jiggins7919 jiggins7919J Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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            jiggins7919J jiggins7919 wrote on last edited by jiggins7919
            #6

            @canton-mike said:

            Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

            TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

            Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

            End of my rant.

            Mike

            While I didn't want to dig too much on the defense, tackling was definitely the one thing I mentioned.  Our players barely broke any tackles, whereas the Chiefs seemed to run right through our guys on numerous occasions.  It's unacceptable, and if you're playing in the NFL, backup or not, you should be able to tackle.  Period.  

            Also, we had offensive line miscommunication, and I don't want to hear excuses about THESE either.  Three times...THREE...we had miscommunication from the left side that left an untouched rusher free to crush Baker Mayfield.  The linemen just did the "arms up in the air" pose and looked at the guy next to them like, "Man, I thought YOU were gonna block that guy!"  I'm guessing it was Greg Robinson's fault, but he literally let rushers go right by him, and it happened at least twice, but I think three times.  Just...just...UGH.  How many timed did you see the Chiefs do that?  Did you see Myles Garrett or Ogbah untouched by a Chiefs lineman?  Hell no. 

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            • Canton MikeC Canton Mike

              Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

              TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

              Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

              End of my rant.

              Mike

              The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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              The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
              #7

              @canton-mike said:

              Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

              TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

              Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

              End of my rant.

              Mike

              Amen

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              • jiggins7919J jiggins7919

                @canton-mike said:

                Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

                TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

                Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

                End of my rant.

                Mike

                While I didn't want to dig too much on the defense, tackling was definitely the one thing I mentioned.  Our players barely broke any tackles, whereas the Chiefs seemed to run right through our guys on numerous occasions.  It's unacceptable, and if you're playing in the NFL, backup or not, you should be able to tackle.  Period.  

                Also, we had offensive line miscommunication, and I don't want to hear excuses about THESE either.  Three times...THREE...we had miscommunication from the left side that left an untouched rusher free to crush Baker Mayfield.  The linemen just did the "arms up in the air" pose and looked at the guy next to them like, "Man, I thought YOU were gonna block that guy!"  I'm guessing it was Greg Robinson's fault, but he literally let rushers go right by him, and it happened at least twice, but I think three times.  Just...just...UGH.  How many timed did you see the Chiefs do that?  Did you see Myles Garrett or Ogbah untouched by a Chiefs lineman?  Hell no. 

                Mark O Mark OM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
                #8

                @jiggins7919 said:

                While I didn't want to dig too much on the defense, tackling was definitely the one thing I mentioned.  Our players barely broke any tackles, whereas the Chiefs seemed to run right through our guys on numerous occasions.  It's unacceptable, and if you're playing in the NFL, backup or not, you should be able to tackle.  Period.  

                Also, we had offensive line miscommunication, and I don't want to hear excuses about THESE either.  Three times...THREE...we had miscommunication from the left side that left an untouched rusher free to crush Baker Mayfield.  The linemen just did the "arms up in the air" pose and looked at the guy next to them like, "Man, I thought YOU were gonna block that guy!"  I'm guessing it was Greg Robinson's fault, but he literally let rushers go right by him, and it happened at least twice, but I think three times.  Just...just...UGH.  How many timed did you see the Chiefs do that?  Did you see Myles Garrett or Ogbah untouched by a Chiefs lineman?  Hell no. 

                The defense was atrocious and the 3rd and 20 blitz is what happens when you have an over aggressive coach calling the plays and every team knows it, which is why we get burned for at least 3 screen passes per game.

                One of the offensive line issues was definitely on Njoku since the guy went past him on his left side while he was busy blocking the dude to his right (who was also being blocked by the o-lineman) and it was on this play that Njoku looked at him like why didn't you block him??   Why would he think the guy to his right would block a dude going by on his left is way beyond me.  It was clearly his guy and he whiffed on it.

                The good was clearly the offense and the playcalling.  Baker looked much better yesterday and it was nice seeing them run the ball several times in a row and I liked the quick passes to get rid of the ball which also helped the o-line look better for the most part.

                The bad and the ugly was all on the defense and while I know that KC is fantastic on offense and we had a shitton of injuries and all that, but I don't think it's asking too much for these guys to make a stop once in awhile.

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                • nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
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                  nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Yes the "Tackling".. Or lack there of is quite alarming.... And seeing a lot of guys on defense stand around was doubly alarming.. they were like bag boys holding the door open for poor old ladies,,,'

                  Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
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                  • Mark OM Mark O

                    @jiggins7919 said:

                    While I didn't want to dig too much on the defense, tackling was definitely the one thing I mentioned.  Our players barely broke any tackles, whereas the Chiefs seemed to run right through our guys on numerous occasions.  It's unacceptable, and if you're playing in the NFL, backup or not, you should be able to tackle.  Period.  

                    Also, we had offensive line miscommunication, and I don't want to hear excuses about THESE either.  Three times...THREE...we had miscommunication from the left side that left an untouched rusher free to crush Baker Mayfield.  The linemen just did the "arms up in the air" pose and looked at the guy next to them like, "Man, I thought YOU were gonna block that guy!"  I'm guessing it was Greg Robinson's fault, but he literally let rushers go right by him, and it happened at least twice, but I think three times.  Just...just...UGH.  How many timed did you see the Chiefs do that?  Did you see Myles Garrett or Ogbah untouched by a Chiefs lineman?  Hell no. 

                    The defense was atrocious and the 3rd and 20 blitz is what happens when you have an over aggressive coach calling the plays and every team knows it, which is why we get burned for at least 3 screen passes per game.

                    One of the offensive line issues was definitely on Njoku since the guy went past him on his left side while he was busy blocking the dude to his right (who was also being blocked by the o-lineman) and it was on this play that Njoku looked at him like why didn't you block him??   Why would he think the guy to his right would block a dude going by on his left is way beyond me.  It was clearly his guy and he whiffed on it.

                    The good was clearly the offense and the playcalling.  Baker looked much better yesterday and it was nice seeing them run the ball several times in a row and I liked the quick passes to get rid of the ball which also helped the o-line look better for the most part.

                    The bad and the ugly was all on the defense and while I know that KC is fantastic on offense and we had a shitton of injuries and all that, but I don't think it's asking too much for these guys to make a stop once in awhile.

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                    jiggins7919J jiggins7919 wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    @mark-o said:

                    One of the offensive line issues was definitely on Njoku since the guy went past him on his left side while he was busy blocking the dude to his right (who was also being blocked by the o-lineman) and it was on this play that Njoku looked at him like why didn't you block him??   Why would he think the guy to his right would block a dude going by on his left is way beyond me.  It was clearly his guy and he whiffed on it.

                    OMG, that's the one I'm thinking of.  He looked at the guy to his RIGHT!  I mean, how in the heck would he even block that guy?  ughhhhhhh

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                      Browns149B Browns149 wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      FA52250C-A6AF-418A-9DB6-AC19865D2296.jpeg

                      "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
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                      • Mark OM Mark O

                        @jiggins7919 said:

                        While I didn't want to dig too much on the defense, tackling was definitely the one thing I mentioned.  Our players barely broke any tackles, whereas the Chiefs seemed to run right through our guys on numerous occasions.  It's unacceptable, and if you're playing in the NFL, backup or not, you should be able to tackle.  Period.  

                        Also, we had offensive line miscommunication, and I don't want to hear excuses about THESE either.  Three times...THREE...we had miscommunication from the left side that left an untouched rusher free to crush Baker Mayfield.  The linemen just did the "arms up in the air" pose and looked at the guy next to them like, "Man, I thought YOU were gonna block that guy!"  I'm guessing it was Greg Robinson's fault, but he literally let rushers go right by him, and it happened at least twice, but I think three times.  Just...just...UGH.  How many timed did you see the Chiefs do that?  Did you see Myles Garrett or Ogbah untouched by a Chiefs lineman?  Hell no. 

                        The defense was atrocious and the 3rd and 20 blitz is what happens when you have an over aggressive coach calling the plays and every team knows it, which is why we get burned for at least 3 screen passes per game.

                        One of the offensive line issues was definitely on Njoku since the guy went past him on his left side while he was busy blocking the dude to his right (who was also being blocked by the o-lineman) and it was on this play that Njoku looked at him like why didn't you block him??   Why would he think the guy to his right would block a dude going by on his left is way beyond me.  It was clearly his guy and he whiffed on it.

                        The good was clearly the offense and the playcalling.  Baker looked much better yesterday and it was nice seeing them run the ball several times in a row and I liked the quick passes to get rid of the ball which also helped the o-line look better for the most part.

                        The bad and the ugly was all on the defense and while I know that KC is fantastic on offense and we had a shitton of injuries and all that, but I don't think it's asking too much for these guys to make a stop once in awhile.

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                        CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        @mark-o said:

                        The defense was atrocious and the 3rd and 20 blitz is what happens when you have an over aggressive coach calling the plays and every team knows it, which is why we get burned for at least 3 screen passes per game.

                        I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the coach for the blitz. It was only 4-5 guys on said 3rd and 20. 

                        I think it’s the discipline of the young lineman who are just pinning their ears back on 3rd and long, without the awareness of “hey, the logical thing for the offense to do here is.... call a screen pass”

                        Coaching can only do so much, sometimes players need to learn the hard way.

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                        • CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS

                          @mark-o said:

                          The defense was atrocious and the 3rd and 20 blitz is what happens when you have an over aggressive coach calling the plays and every team knows it, which is why we get burned for at least 3 screen passes per game.

                          I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the coach for the blitz. It was only 4-5 guys on said 3rd and 20. 

                          I think it’s the discipline of the young lineman who are just pinning their ears back on 3rd and long, without the awareness of “hey, the logical thing for the offense to do here is.... call a screen pass”

                          Coaching can only do so much, sometimes players need to learn the hard way.

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                          Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          @clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

                          I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the coach for the blitz. It was only 4-5 guys on said 3rd and 20. 

                          I think it’s the discipline of the young lineman who are just pinning their ears back on 3rd and long, without the awareness of “hey, the logical thing for the offense to do here is.... call a screen pass”

                          Coaching can only do so much, sometimes players need to learn the hard way.

                          Its well documented that Williams is an aggressive coach who likes to blitz a little bit too much and teams have been taking advantage of it all season.

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                          • Mark OM Mark O

                            @clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

                            I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the coach for the blitz. It was only 4-5 guys on said 3rd and 20. 

                            I think it’s the discipline of the young lineman who are just pinning their ears back on 3rd and long, without the awareness of “hey, the logical thing for the offense to do here is.... call a screen pass”

                            Coaching can only do so much, sometimes players need to learn the hard way.

                            Its well documented that Williams is an aggressive coach who likes to blitz a little bit too much and teams have been taking advantage of it all season.

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                            CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            @mark-o said:

                            Its well documented that Williams is an aggressive coach who likes to blitz a little bit too much and teams have been taking advantage of it all season.

                            I have been watching. Thanks.

                            Did you even read what I said about the blitz and HOW the players are not accounting for situational football?

                            Even if there is a blitz, the rushers should be AWARE of the screen pass and drop back to defend. It’s bad defense.

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                            • CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS

                              @mark-o said:

                              Its well documented that Williams is an aggressive coach who likes to blitz a little bit too much and teams have been taking advantage of it all season.

                              I have been watching. Thanks.

                              Did you even read what I said about the blitz and HOW the players are not accounting for situational football?

                              Even if there is a blitz, the rushers should be AWARE of the screen pass and drop back to defend. It’s bad defense.

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                              Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              @clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

                              I have been watching. Thanks.

                              Did you even read what I said about the blitz and HOW the players are not accounting for situational football?

                              Even if there is a blitz, the rushers should be AWARE of the screen pass and drop back to defend. It’s bad defense.

                              Thats all true as well.  But it's a dumb coaching decision to even have any extra guys rushing when its 3rd and 20.

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                              • Mark OM Mark O

                                @clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

                                I have been watching. Thanks.

                                Did you even read what I said about the blitz and HOW the players are not accounting for situational football?

                                Even if there is a blitz, the rushers should be AWARE of the screen pass and drop back to defend. It’s bad defense.

                                Thats all true as well.  But it's a dumb coaching decision to even have any extra guys rushing when its 3rd and 20.

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                                CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                @mark-o said:

                                Thats all true as well.  But it's a dumb coaching decision to even have any extra guys rushing when its 3rd and 20.

                                Yea but it’s also difficult dropping back in zone with our subpar/banged up secondary and letting Mahommes carve us up

                                I was a pissed as anyone but there was no stopping KC yesterday with the talent we had on defense.

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                                • Mark O Mark OM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                  Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  I don't care about the injuries when it's 3rd and 20 and we give up 25 or whatever it was.    I've never said I expected to stop them.  No one has stopped them all season but I don't think it's too much to ask for our defense to force a punt once or twice, particuliarly when you have the team at 3rd and 20.

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                                  • mjp28 mjp28M In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
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                                    mjp28M mjp28 wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    Wow a lot of thought and in depth writing and reading here, carry on.  😉

                                    GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
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                                    • Mark OM Mark O

                                      I don't care about the injuries when it's 3rd and 20 and we give up 25 or whatever it was.    I've never said I expected to stop them.  No one has stopped them all season but I don't think it's too much to ask for our defense to force a punt once or twice, particuliarly when you have the team at 3rd and 20.

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                                      CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      @mark-o said:

                                      I don't care about the injuries when it's 3rd and 20 and we give up 25 or whatever it was.    I've never said I expected to stop them.  No one has stopped them all season but I don't think it's too much to ask for our defense to force a punt once or twice, particuliarly when you have the team at 3rd and 20.

                                      I agree, they should’ve had the stop on 3rd and 20. I blame the whole line for not identifying the screen in time.

                                      It was 4 or 5 guys fault, there should be one rusher on EACH SIDE accounting for a screen, especially on second and 3 and 8+. If they all blitz like idiots, they’ll get burnt... like idiots..

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                                      • jiggins7919 jiggins7919J Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                        jiggins7919J jiggins7919 wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        Just read that on the blocked punt, the Chiefs had the return on....they didn't even go for the block. 

                                        AAAAHHHH 

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                                        • Canton MikeC Canton Mike

                                          Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

                                          TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

                                          Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

                                          End of my rant.

                                          Mike

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                                          B BrownPile wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          @canton-mike said:

                                          Regardless of injuries, these players were all part of our game day roster(s). Here is my issue with the defense......

                                          TACKLING!!! It's a fundamental & proper tackling is NOT a hard shoulder block into the ball carrier (exception is when a "bump" sends a sideline hugging runner out) or reaching out & grabbing their shirt sleeves. A good runner will just move WITH the force & often just bounce off on their way to additional yards. Wrap the runner up & put 'em on the ground!! I don't care how far down the depth chart a player is, they need to be taught & play with solid fundamentals.

                                          Regardless of game plans, playcalling et al, execution is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain if our fundamentals are poor.

                                          End of my rant.

                                          Mike

                                          Sorry Mike, but tackling is no longer a "fundamental".  The "hit", the biggest "impact collision" you can make is what is coached now.

                                          But it really doesn't matter about defense in today's NFL, either.  So, there really isn't much point about railing on about whether or not they tackle.

                                          The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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