Artest & Ariza
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FooK me!!! Well lets hope Danny Green can make a splash at SF. So does anyone think we will go after Bass?
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just go figure cleveland sits arond with there thumbs up there asses again and does nothing and then we wonder why we can never win a championship while all the supporting cast is going away we sit there and watch
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Unfortunately there's not much we could've done. Artest preferred LA to Cleveland, who can blame him? Reigning champs, better city. With all the other guys, we just got outbid. All we had to offer was the midlevel exception, it's not like Ferry was just sitting on his hands.
Of course our team is pretty ridiculously shallow now. We have a total of six real players under contract (Shaq, James, Ilgauskas, Mo, Delonte, Gibson), 4 question marks (Hickson, Kinsey, Jackson, Jawad Williams) and you'd assume Danny Green. That's pretty embarrassing.
I'd get back into how horrible the Eyenga pick was, but it speaks for itself.
We can't afford to re-sign Varejao, but there doesn't appear to be any better options out there. We need at least two more guys just as warm bodies that might be able to play 10 minutes/game.
Our real moment will still probably be at the deadline. Get a couple decent rotation guys (Barnes, Parker, etc) to make it until February, then unload for one of the big guns.
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Unfortunately there's not much we could've done. Artest preferred LA to Cleveland, who can blame him? Reigning champs, better city. With all the other guys, we just got outbid. All we had to offer was the midlevel exception, it's not like Ferry was just sitting on his hands.
Of course our team is pretty ridiculously shallow now. We have a total of six real players under contract (Shaq, James, Ilgauskas, Mo, Delonte, Gibson), 4 question marks (Hickson, Kinsey, Jackson, Jawad Williams) and you'd assume Danny Green. That's pretty embarrassing.
I'd get back into how horrible the Eyenga pick was, but it speaks for itself.
We can't afford to re-sign Varejao, but there doesn't appear to be any better options out there. We need at least two more guys just as warm bodies that might be able to play 10 minutes/game.
Our real moment will still probably be at the deadline. Get a couple decent rotation guys (Barnes, Parker, etc) to make it until February, then unload for one of the big guns.
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Unfortunately there's not much we could've done. Artest preferred LA to Cleveland, who can blame him? Reigning champs, better city. With all the other guys, we just got outbid. All we had to offer was the midlevel exception, it's not like Ferry was just sitting on his hands.
Of course our team is pretty ridiculously shallow now. We have a total of six real players under contract (Shaq, James, Ilgauskas, Mo, Delonte, Gibson), 4 question marks (Hickson, Kinsey, Jackson, Jawad Williams) and you'd assume Danny Green. That's pretty embarrassing.
I'd get back into how horrible the Eyenga pick was, but it speaks for itself.
We can't afford to re-sign Varejao, but there doesn't appear to be any better options out there. We need at least two more guys just as warm bodies that might be able to play 10 minutes/game.
Our real moment will still probably be at the deadline. Get a couple decent rotation guys (Barnes, Parker, etc) to make it until February, then unload for one of the big guns.
Unfortunately there's not much we could've done. Artest preferred LA to Cleveland, who can blame him? Reigning champs, better city. With all the other guys, we just got outbid. All we had to offer was the midlevel exception, it's not like Ferry was just sitting on his hands.
Of course our team is pretty ridiculously shallow now. We have a total of six real players under contract (Shaq, James, Ilgauskas, Mo, Delonte, Gibson), 4 question marks (Hickson, Kinsey, Jackson, Jawad Williams) and you'd assume Danny Green. That's pretty embarrassing.
I'd get back into how horrible the Eyenga pick was, but it speaks for itself.
We can't afford to re-sign Varejao, but there doesn't appear to be any better options out there. We need at least two more guys just as warm bodies that might be able to play 10 minutes/game.
Our real moment will still probably be at the deadline. Get a couple decent rotation guys (Barnes, Parker, etc) to make it until February, then unload for one of the big guns.
First, Cleveland didn't lose out on Artest. Artest lives in LA and Cleveland couldn't have given him any more money. As far as what's left..........................................CAVS are in talks to work a sign and trade for Camby. They also are talking to Kleiza, Marques Daniels, Anthony Parker and Bass. these aren't just rotational throw-ins. they have also contacted McDyess and may make an offer to Rip Hamilton and see if Detriot wants to match it.
There's still a lot going on and some very nice players still out there.
Personally, I think they let Andy walk or work a sign and trade.
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@shepwrite said:
Uhhhh... the team that won 66 games is ridiculously shallow? After adding Shaq?Okay, admit it. That's absurd. Lebron James and Shaquille O'Neal on one team is illegal in most states. Add two excellent guards in All-Star Mo Wiliams and Delonte West, and this team wins 60 easy.
Danny Green was a terrific addition. He should've been the 30th pick. One of the ESPN guys had him rated eighth. Overall. He's a Trevor Ariza type right now.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying this is a bad team, it's just incredibly iffy. I'm aware that we're still (hoping to) add a couple more pieces, but still. We have a total of 6 rotation players, two of which are very large, very slow, and very old.
We're definitely set at point guard, small forward and center. I'd say we're set at shooting guard too, but we could really use an upgrade in terms of size and scoring ability... not that I'd complain if we stood pat with Delonte.
But what are we doing at power forward? I assume Shaq has to start at center. So who do we use at the four? I know Ilgauskas likes to shoot jumpers and could play well off Shaq on offense, but he there's no way he can keep up with Gasol, Garnett, or Lewis. But with no better options as of now and a (reasonably) good defensive coach, we'll probably start him. So when we're starting two big, slow, old guys who will need plenty of rest (combined to average 57 minutes/game last year), the team will need a healthy rotation to keep them fresh and just keep some balance. Remember that we're losing about 40+ minutes from losing two frontcourt players (Shaq replaces 30 of Varejao/Smith/Wallace's 70). So who are going to step up and play those minutes?
I'll be generous and say Hickson can play 20 productive mpg. As of now, that leaves about 20 more minutes between Darnell Jackson and Jawad Williams. Do you seriously trust those two guys to play 20 big minutes a night? What about when Z and Shaq are both on the bench? They're not big enough to man up, and not skilled enough to run the floor and play small ball. What if *gasp* Z or Shaq gets injured? You start Hickson and have no one but Jackson and Jawad Williams coming off the bench.
It's pretty much the same (albeit less risky) in the backcourt. You have Mo and Delonte, maybe Gibson decides to be a solid role player. The only other player (yes, as of now) for the backcourt rotation is Tarrence Kinsey and Danny Green. No floor general point guard. No reliable sniper. No defensive stopper. Just Kinsey and a rookie. It's less important since we have several guys who can run the point and score, and Mo and Delonte have been reliable guys. But that's still paper thin.
(warning, this starts (continues?) my rambling I'm sure sounds better in my head)We don't have a Rafer Alston to make up for losing our point guard, and we don't have a Glen Davis to make up for losing a big man. And I won't even mention what we'd do if something might happen to a certain small forward.
On top of all that, what are we building, long-term?
Shaq and Z are probably gone next year. We've all come to an agreement (haven't we?) that Mo isn't going to cut it as a championship-calibur sidekick. Hickson still hasn't proven anything, but I'll even give you him, and say he'll be a solid 6th man at worst, impact starter at best. Gibson is what he is. So our entire nucleus going forward is LeBron (who, devil's advocate, could leave), Mo (who shouldn't be more than a 3rd scoring option), Delonte (good role player), Gibson (streaky shooter, dime a dozen), Hickson (question mark) and maybe Green (question mark).
And Christian Eyenga.
We'd need a number 2 scoring option, a handful of big men, and more size on the wing.
It's shallow short term, and it's nothing inspiring long-term. Every day I'm getting more and more weary of putting all of our eggs in the free agency basket. What happens if we get stuck with another Larry Hughes? Or LeBron bolts? We don't have the assets to be confident of a deadline trade. Will Gibson and Hickson (and Z's contract) land us Chris Bosh? When a team like Dallas can offer someone like Josh Howard and JJ Barea? If we make a serious offer and give up Mo for Bosh, it creates another hole.
There are just too many holes, or near-holes. If you just have faith in LeBron's cast, think Shaq and Z will stay healthy and productive, Hickson will start making an impact, and we'll add two true rotation players...there's not really anything I can convince you of. I just want a little more insurance.
**And with all this, I reserve the right to completely change my mind and be fully back on board if we add a good (not average, or old) player**
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@shepwrite said:
Uhhhh... the team that won 66 games is ridiculously shallow? After adding Shaq?Okay, admit it. That's absurd. Lebron James and Shaquille O'Neal on one team is illegal in most states. Add two excellent guards in All-Star Mo Wiliams and Delonte West, and this team wins 60 easy.
Danny Green was a terrific addition. He should've been the 30th pick. One of the ESPN guys had him rated eighth. Overall. He's a Trevor Ariza type right now.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying this is a bad team, it's just incredibly iffy. I'm aware that we're still (hoping to) add a couple more pieces, but still. We have a total of 6 rotation players, two of which are very large, very slow, and very old.
We're definitely set at point guard, small forward and center. I'd say we're set at shooting guard too, but we could really use an upgrade in terms of size and scoring ability... not that I'd complain if we stood pat with Delonte.
But what are we doing at power forward? I assume Shaq has to start at center. So who do we use at the four? I know Ilgauskas likes to shoot jumpers and could play well off Shaq on offense, but he there's no way he can keep up with Gasol, Garnett, or Lewis. But with no better options as of now and a (reasonably) good defensive coach, we'll probably start him. So when we're starting two big, slow, old guys who will need plenty of rest (combined to average 57 minutes/game last year), the team will need a healthy rotation to keep them fresh and just keep some balance. Remember that we're losing about 40+ minutes from losing two frontcourt players (Shaq replaces 30 of Varejao/Smith/Wallace's 70). So who are going to step up and play those minutes?
I'll be generous and say Hickson can play 20 productive mpg. As of now, that leaves about 20 more minutes between Darnell Jackson and Jawad Williams. Do you seriously trust those two guys to play 20 big minutes a night? What about when Z and Shaq are both on the bench? They're not big enough to man up, and not skilled enough to run the floor and play small ball. What if *gasp* Z or Shaq gets injured? You start Hickson and have no one but Jackson and Jawad Williams coming off the bench.
It's pretty much the same (albeit less risky) in the backcourt. You have Mo and Delonte, maybe Gibson decides to be a solid role player. The only other player (yes, as of now) for the backcourt rotation is Tarrence Kinsey and Danny Green. No floor general point guard. No reliable sniper. No defensive stopper. Just Kinsey and a rookie. It's less important since we have several guys who can run the point and score, and Mo and Delonte have been reliable guys. But that's still paper thin.
(warning, this starts (continues?) my rambling I'm sure sounds better in my head)We don't have a Rafer Alston to make up for losing our point guard, and we don't have a Glen Davis to make up for losing a big man. And I won't even mention what we'd do if something might happen to a certain small forward.
On top of all that, what are we building, long-term?
Shaq and Z are probably gone next year. We've all come to an agreement (haven't we?) that Mo isn't going to cut it as a championship-calibur sidekick. Hickson still hasn't proven anything, but I'll even give you him, and say he'll be a solid 6th man at worst, impact starter at best. Gibson is what he is. So our entire nucleus going forward is LeBron (who, devil's advocate, could leave), Mo (who shouldn't be more than a 3rd scoring option), Delonte (good role player), Gibson (streaky shooter, dime a dozen), Hickson (question mark) and maybe Green (question mark).
And Christian Eyenga.
We'd need a number 2 scoring option, a handful of big men, and more size on the wing.
It's shallow short term, and it's nothing inspiring long-term. Every day I'm getting more and more weary of putting all of our eggs in the free agency basket. What happens if we get stuck with another Larry Hughes? Or LeBron bolts? We don't have the assets to be confident of a deadline trade. Will Gibson and Hickson (and Z's contract) land us Chris Bosh? When a team like Dallas can offer someone like Josh Howard and JJ Barea? If we make a serious offer and give up Mo for Bosh, it creates another hole.
There are just too many holes, or near-holes. If you just have faith in LeBron's cast, think Shaq and Z will stay healthy and productive, Hickson will start making an impact, and we'll add two true rotation players...there's not really anything I can convince you of. I just want a little more insurance.
**And with all this, I reserve the right to completely change my mind and be fully back on board if we add a good (not average, or old) player**
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying this is a bad team, it's just incredibly iffy. I'm aware that we're still (hoping to) add a couple more pieces, but still. We have a total of 6 rotation players, two of which are very large, very slow, and very old.
We're definitely set at point guard, small forward and center. I'd say we're set at shooting guard too, but we could really use an upgrade in terms of size and scoring ability... not that I'd complain if we stood pat with Delonte.
But what are we doing at power forward? I assume Shaq has to start at center. So who do we use at the four? I know Ilgauskas likes to shoot jumpers and could play well off Shaq on offense, but he there's no way he can keep up with Gasol, Garnett, or Lewis. But with no better options as of now and a (reasonably) good defensive coach, we'll probably start him. So when we're starting two big, slow, old guys who will need plenty of rest (combined to average 57 minutes/game last year), the team will need a healthy rotation to keep them fresh and just keep some balance. Remember that we're losing about 40+ minutes from losing two frontcourt players (Shaq replaces 30 of Varejao/Smith/Wallace's 70). So who are going to step up and play those minutes?
I'll be generous and say Hickson can play 20 productive mpg. As of now, that leaves about 20 more minutes between Darnell Jackson and Jawad Williams. Do you seriously trust those two guys to play 20 big minutes a night? What about when Z and Shaq are both on the bench? They're not big enough to man up, and not skilled enough to run the floor and play small ball. What if *gasp* Z or Shaq gets injured? You start Hickson and have no one but Jackson and Jawad Williams coming off the bench.
It's pretty much the same (albeit less risky) in the backcourt. You have Mo and Delonte, maybe Gibson decides to be a solid role player. The only other player (yes, as of now) for the backcourt rotation is Tarrence Kinsey and Danny Green. No floor general point guard. No reliable sniper. No defensive stopper. Just Kinsey and a rookie. It's less important since we have several guys who can run the point and score, and Mo and Delonte have been reliable guys. But that's still paper thin.
(warning, this starts (continues?) my rambling I'm sure sounds better in my head)We don't have a Rafer Alston to make up for losing our point guard, and we don't have a Glen Davis to make up for losing a big man. And I won't even mention what we'd do if something might happen to a certain small forward.
On top of all that, what are we building, long-term?
Shaq and Z are probably gone next year. We've all come to an agreement (haven't we?) that Mo isn't going to cut it as a championship-calibur sidekick. Hickson still hasn't proven anything, but I'll even give you him, and say he'll be a solid 6th man at worst, impact starter at best. Gibson is what he is. So our entire nucleus going forward is LeBron (who, devil's advocate, could leave), Mo (who shouldn't be more than a 3rd scoring option), Delonte (good role player), Gibson (streaky shooter, dime a dozen), Hickson (question mark) and maybe Green (question mark).
And Christian Eyenga.
We'd need a number 2 scoring option, a handful of big men, and more size on the wing.
It's shallow short term, and it's nothing inspiring long-term. Every day I'm getting more and more weary of putting all of our eggs in the free agency basket. What happens if we get stuck with another Larry Hughes? Or LeBron bolts? We don't have the assets to be confident of a deadline trade. Will Gibson and Hickson (and Z's contract) land us Chris Bosh? When a team like Dallas can offer someone like Josh Howard and JJ Barea? If we make a serious offer and give up Mo for Bosh, it creates another hole.
There are just too many holes, or near-holes. If you just have faith in LeBron's cast, think Shaq and Z will stay healthy and productive, Hickson will start making an impact, and we'll add two true rotation players...there's not really anything I can convince you of. I just want a little more insurance.
**And with all this, I reserve the right to completely change my mind and be fully back on board if we add a good (not average, or old) player**
Even against Detroit in the playoffs we couldn't hold a lead without Lebron on the floor. That said, there is some definite upside to this team. We have the best player in the game. We have one one the best centers ever to play the game.
Mo and Delonte are good players, maybe better than average, but like Shep said, they match up horribly with Orlando. This mismatch was made worse by putting Lebron on Rafer Alston-a totally dumbass move in my opinion. Lebron has a much better matchup with Rashard and Hedo. No idea what we were doing here. Another wing player would take us to another level.
While Shaq isn't the Shaq of old, he still is much much better than Z, and provides us toughness and a forceful presence in the paint.
Like CIMO says, though, we are pretty much xxxxed if someone gets injured. Mo goes down, Delonte plays point (not his natural position, but he is OK). However, who then plays SG? Gibson? Bleh. Shaq and Z are getting old, which means we shouldn't overplay them.
Hickson is a huge X-factor. He's 20 years old, great leaping ability, good post moves (from what I can remember with Mike Brown handcuffing his minutes), and hopefully his back problem won't be a big deal down the road.
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@shepwrite said:
Odds makers had the Cavs and Lakers tied for championship likelihood a few days ago... not sure what Artest does for that.The Cavs aren't done, guys, so it's no time to judge the roster. Kleiza, Marion, and/or Johnson will be on the team. I like the first two. Marion had been offered 4 years for 32 mill by Toronto but that probably goes away now... making him a huge bargain in Cleveland at 5.6.
I think the 4s and 5s will be Shaq, Marion (great rebounder), Z, and Hickson. I like Kleiza but he doesn't like the boards much.
Marion would be a great combo with Lebron should hopefully continue to do stuff like this:
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Rasheed Wallace commits to Celtics
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I hope Danny Ferry has something in the works, that is going to happen soon. The celtics will be pretty nasty with Rasheed on the team.
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Frye would be a nice fit, pretty much a young, smaller Z. Not very physical but is pretty good with the pick and pop.
Besides getting Shaq, this has really been an offseason where you just shouldn't read the paper. We were getting Rasheed, Villanueva, Artest, Ariza, Marion.....and now it looks like we'll end up with (hopefully) two average rotation guys. Frye and Childress would be great, but it's getting to the point where you have to just wait and see.
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