Where are our weaknesses now?
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A lot of Browns fans are high as a kite right now, and why not? We've got a young, talented group of players, and we've been fun to watch for most of the year. We've got our QB (finally), tons of cap room, and all of our draft picks (plus some later round ones, minus a 3rd I think). We've won two in a row, and I thought the way we responded after a bye week was just tremendous. Here's a team that played their best game since forever and beat the Falcons. We go into the bye week, and it could've been really easy to lose focus. To not work as hard. To come out a little sluggish. Nope. Everybody on the team appeared to handle their business during the down time, and we came out with our hair on fire against the Bengals.
So what are the weaknesses? Ask me after the Texans game. I just don't believe gauging our team's progress is easy to do when playing the Bengals and Falcons. Despite their records, both teams are in definite declines, and I want to say they've both now lost a combined 6 out of their last 8 or something. Whatever it is, it's not good. That doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate our successes, far from it, but I think it's difficult to really see where we are as a team when we're playing teams on the schnide.
Enter the Texans. A team definitely NOT on the decline. I believe they've now won like 7 or 8 in a row or something? That's just stupid in today's NFL, and I have to believe it's somewhat rare. They have the physical style of defense that gives most teams absolute fits, and Baker isn't going to have as much time to throw. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm guessing they're good against the run, too. No matter if we win or lose, it'll be great to see how we stack up against the hottest team in the league. Afterwards, we'll get a great look at what our weaknesses truly are, IMO.
Right now? Our punt/kick coverage is EMBARRASSING. Enough said. I'd also say that as a team we're not tackling well enough. For example, Boddy-Calhoun had a chance to drop Mixon in the backfield before half, but completely whiffed him and it resulted in a 35 yard run, and then a TD before half. Unacceptable. He had him dead to rights, and must make that play. Mixon then went on to break another tackle or ten before finally going down. Another weakness? How about just finishing off plays? Myles Garrett missed two sacks, at LEAST, and on one play he basically didn't get touched and let Driskell spin away from him. All you have to do is wrap him up, you don't have to drill him. I'm tough on Garrett, and I love him, but that's a play we HAVE to finish. Speaking of finishing, another weakness is dropping interceptions. Yeah, I know they play defense for a reason and all that, but how many interceptions have we dropped in the past two games? Jamie Collins dropped not only an INT, but a PICK-6. It was not a difficult play, and he would've easily scored. That's called FINISHING. Carrie did the same thing, in fact, his may have been easier. The dang ball bounced right off his chest. Finish...the...PLAY. And what about the ridiculous penalties that cost us points and extended drives? Again, FINISH.
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He said death. Check the meaning
You were paraphrasing Patrick Henry, weren't you? Did you even know that?
You were paraphrasing Patrick Henry, weren't you? Did you even know that?
I got it right away but was out of emoji ammo for the day. LOL!?
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Get All-Pro. Players drops out of Pro Bowls all the time and not just because they're in the SB. They got to fill the rosters somehow. All-Pro different criteria. Writers vote, not fans. Fans vote Pro Bowl and can vote multiple times and yeah his tackle numbers look impressive but they should be high when you making tackles down the field and jumping on piles instead of getting them in the backfield. Run D numbers have went down compared to last year. He sucks at pass coverage. I've watched a lot of him.
So his best passer coverage grade and under 1 yard per attempt is a fluke?
Scho is only in his second year and looks very promising, Avery is a rookie and is promising as a rusher.
I’m not sure what game your watching
So his best passer coverage grade and under 1 yard per attempt is a fluke?
Scho is only in his second year and looks very promising, Avery is a rookie and is promising as a rusher.
I’m not sure what game your watching
Yes, I talked to a scout about his grades and here's what he told me:
"The one major complaint about PFF is that they grade all from a singular point of view whereas each defensive scheme has LBs doing different things. For example the Bucs know none of their LBs can get off of blocks whereas the Panthers LBs displays a lot more block shedding ability. I don't think PfF takes that in to account. Also I think their grades are really reliant on basic math and they give too much credit for a Tackle
No matter where on the field it is. And I think their coverage grade is based on simply how many times a player is targeted and if they give up a catch whereas some LBs are so lock down that they don't even get targeted. Also LBs that truly run downfield in man coverage vs TEs deserve more coverage credit than guys covering a fullback on a curl route."I don't hate Schobert but I'm not in love with him like some Browns fans are. He can be upgraded. I'm sure he's a smart player but some things you can't teach like speed. I love Avery. Great pick by Dorsey. Get a mike like Devin White, Browns LBs would have the run game covered sideline to sideline.
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So his best passer coverage grade and under 1 yard per attempt is a fluke?
Scho is only in his second year and looks very promising, Avery is a rookie and is promising as a rusher.
I’m not sure what game your watching
Yes, I talked to a scout about his grades and here's what he told me:
"The one major complaint about PFF is that they grade all from a singular point of view whereas each defensive scheme has LBs doing different things. For example the Bucs know none of their LBs can get off of blocks whereas the Panthers LBs displays a lot more block shedding ability. I don't think PfF takes that in to account. Also I think their grades are really reliant on basic math and they give too much credit for a Tackle
No matter where on the field it is. And I think their coverage grade is based on simply how many times a player is targeted and if they give up a catch whereas some LBs are so lock down that they don't even get targeted. Also LBs that truly run downfield in man coverage vs TEs deserve more coverage credit than guys covering a fullback on a curl route."I don't hate Schobert but I'm not in love with him like some Browns fans are. He can be upgraded. I'm sure he's a smart player but some things you can't teach like speed. I love Avery. Great pick by Dorsey. Get a mike like Devin White, Browns LBs would have the run game covered sideline to sideline.
I don't hate Schobert but I'm not in love with him like some Browns fans are. He can be upgraded. I'm sure he's a smart player but some things you can't teach like speed. I love Avery. Great pick by Dorsey. Get a mike like Devin White, Browns LBs would have the run game covered sideline to sideline.
Honestly I'm more concerned about Schobert's physicality than I am his speed.
The kid is very smart, and I think he covers a decent amount of ground. I do not think, though, that he's much of a physical presence in the middle. The Browns need to get some beef in front of him on the DLine, to keep him clean.
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Schobert really improved his coverage this season.. the other LB's are replacement-level.
I have no idea why multiple people in this thread like Avery.. if Avery wasn't the worst edge in the league in coverage he was second worst. He's good as a backup if he isn't asked to cover in space.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I agree with you. I'll give Kitchens the benefit of the doubt. What scares me about the conservative 2nd half playcalling is if CLE gets a hot start against a team like HOU on Sunday, HOU is a very good team on both sides of the ball and it ends up like ATL-NE SB.
CLE's D is still work in progress, not great but not garbage. It's just they aren't elite at stopping the pass or the run which they need to be at one if they want to take the team to another level. They're good at takeaways and when the blitzing and zone D works they're nasty but a good QB could get the ball out quick and take advantage of that. Would love next season to have the personnel just to rush 4 all the time like JAX did last season and play man. DBs are definitely more talented than last season. Would love a front 7 overhaul.
Myles, Ogunjobi, Ogbah (stellar against the run), Avery, Schobert, and probably Kirskey....can stay. Kirskey wasn't having a great season before injury, but he's earned the right to come back. He's has multiple good seasons, and he's also the heart and soul of our defense. His energy is infectious, and his injury shouldn't affect his speed. I want him back. Collins needs to go, I think we know that now.
So what do we need on the front 7? Possibly DE help in the form of pass rusher. We can't forget that we drafted DE Chad Thomas in like the 3rd round this year, so hopefully he's a contributer. We obviously need linebacker, and I'm not sure what's available in the draft.
After watching game again (so fun), there's something else our defense didn't do well. FINISH PLAYS. Now I know I'm tough on Myles Garrett, but I should be. He got a sack, but he missed several others. At the very end, Myles rushes basically untouched and runs right by Driskell. That's not ok. Also, how many INTs did we drop? Carrie? Collins? Ward had one last week? We MUST have those...that's OUR ball, dammit.
Myles, Ogunjobi, Ogbah (stellar against the run), Avery, Schobert, and probably Kirskey....can stay. Kirskey wasn't having a great season before injury, but he's earned the right to come back. He's has multiple good seasons, and he's also the heart and soul of our defense. His energy is infectious, and his injury shouldn't affect his speed. I want him back. Collins needs to go, I think we know that now.
So what do we need on the front 7? Possibly DE help in the form of pass rusher. We can't forget that we drafted DE Chad Thomas in like the 3rd round this year, so hopefully he's a contributer. We obviously need linebacker, and I'm not sure what's available in the draft.
After watching game again (so fun), there's something else our defense didn't do well. FINISH PLAYS. Now I know I'm tough on Myles Garrett, but I should be. He got a sack, but he missed several others. At the very end, Myles rushes basically untouched and runs right by Driskell. That's not ok. Also, how many INTs did we drop? Carrie? Collins? Ward had one last week? We MUST have those...that's OUR ball, dammit.
I think comes down to how much financial flexibility Dorsey wants. CLE beat the Jets, Falcons and Bengals without him. Ogbah's nice but you can never have too many good DL.
I'd love a good interior DT alongside Ojunobi. Teams already have to account for Garrett which frees up Ojunobi/Ogbah, imagine another DT, the DL would be like JAX last year. Wouldn't have to rely on blitzing so much, just rush 4. Not all teams have 2 good guards and a good C so that'd be a nightmare for QBs' having pass rushers in their face while trying to avoid the rush from the outside.
PHI and JAX will be in cap hell. Could pick up a vet like Calais Campbell (may not want to take a paycut), Malik Jackson (Coughlin didn't sign him), Timmy Jernigan or Michael Bennett to add experience and winning to the Browns defense.
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Myles, Ogunjobi, Ogbah (stellar against the run), Avery, Schobert, and probably Kirskey....can stay. Kirskey wasn't having a great season before injury, but he's earned the right to come back. He's has multiple good seasons, and he's also the heart and soul of our defense. His energy is infectious, and his injury shouldn't affect his speed. I want him back. Collins needs to go, I think we know that now.
So what do we need on the front 7? Possibly DE help in the form of pass rusher. We can't forget that we drafted DE Chad Thomas in like the 3rd round this year, so hopefully he's a contributer. We obviously need linebacker, and I'm not sure what's available in the draft.
After watching game again (so fun), there's something else our defense didn't do well. FINISH PLAYS. Now I know I'm tough on Myles Garrett, but I should be. He got a sack, but he missed several others. At the very end, Myles rushes basically untouched and runs right by Driskell. That's not ok. Also, how many INTs did we drop? Carrie? Collins? Ward had one last week? We MUST have those...that's OUR ball, dammit.
I think comes down to how much financial flexibility Dorsey wants. CLE beat the Jets, Falcons and Bengals without him. Ogbah's nice but you can never have too many good DL.
I'd love a good interior DT alongside Ojunobi. Teams already have to account for Garrett which frees up Ojunobi/Ogbah, imagine another DT, the DL would be like JAX last year. Wouldn't have to rely on blitzing so much, just rush 4. Not all teams have 2 good guards and a good C so that'd be a nightmare for QBs' having pass rushers in their face while trying to avoid the rush from the outside.
PHI and JAX will be in cap hell. Could pick up a vet like Calais Campbell (may not want to take a paycut), Malik Jackson (Coughlin didn't sign him), Timmy Jernigan or Michael Bennett to add experience and winning to the Browns defense.
I think comes down to how much financial flexibility Dorsey wants. CLE beat the Jets, Falcons and Bengals without him. Ogbah's nice but you can never have too many good DL.
I'd love a good interior DT alongside Ojunobi. Teams already have to account for Garrett which frees up Ojunobi/Ogbah, imagine another DT, the DL would be like JAX last year. Wouldn't have to rely on blitzing so much, just rush 4. Not all teams have 2 good guards and a good C so that'd be a nightmare for QBs' having pass rushers in their face while trying to avoid the rush from the outside.
PHI and JAX will be in cap hell. Could pick up a vet like Calais Campbell (may not want to take a paycut), Malik Jackson (Coughlin didn't sign him), Timmy Jernigan or Michael Bennett to add experience and winning to the Browns defense.
I absolutely love the idea of a nasty DT alongside of Ogunjobi. That's a serious handful, especially with Avery at LB during passing downs. Yeesh.
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I think Dorsey will solidify the d in free agency next year. There are young FA on d.
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Schobert really improved his coverage this season.. the other LB's are replacement-level.
I have no idea why multiple people in this thread like Avery.. if Avery wasn't the worst edge in the league in coverage he was second worst. He's good as a backup if he isn't asked to cover in space.
Schobert really improved his coverage this season.. the other LB's are replacement-level.
I have no idea why multiple people in this thread like Avery.. if Avery wasn't the worst edge in the league in coverage he was second worst. He's good as a backup if he isn't asked to cover in space.
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I think Dorsey will solidify the d in free agency next year. There are young FA on d.
I think Dorsey will solidify the d in free agency next year. There are young FA on d.
You know what’s going to be completely surreal? Heading into free agency and the draft WITHOUT worrying about the freaking starting QB position (we’ll likely need to acquire a backup, and I’d be fine with throwing a fat check to McCown if he still wants to play).
I mean, think about it. When is the last time we KNEW we didn’t have to worry about our starting QB? We can literally begin the process of BUILDING A TEAM, and that’s something our fans have been wanting for just so long. It’s also another reason why Gregg Williams and company might return. How do you BUILD something when you tear down some vital pillars?
It goes without saying this previous draft is one of our best since returning, and the funny thing is, we aren’t even USING some of our high picks. Austin Corbett was a very puzzling pick, especially when you consider the immense value the first pick of the 2nd round holds. The Browns no doubt received countless offers for the pick, and nobody would’ve blamed them at all for trading down a little, and I remember hearing that the only way we were going to stay put and take a player is if we absolutely loved someone. That’s what makes the Corbett pick so bizarre, as we had other holes that needed immediately fixing. Don’t get me wrong, I am NOT knocking the pick. He could be a terrific player, we just don’t know yet. In fact, the only reason he HASN’T played is because we’ve been somewhat lucky in the injury department (for ONCE). Browns Daily reported yesterday that Austin Corbett is the next offensive lineman up REGARDLESS of who gets injured. I thought that was a pretty provocative statement. So he can play ANY position? Yeesh, that’s a tall order, but flexibility is in high demand.
Something that people might not know is that during the Bengals’ game, JC Tretter aggravated his high ankle sprain, and immediately Baker and Corbett began working on center-qb exchange, and shotgun snaps. It looked like Corbett playing center was a done deal, until Tretter channeled his inner Joe Thomas and told Corbett to get the fuk outta here, LOL. I know the plan for Corbett was to eventually play center (according to Browns Daily), but JC Tretter is literally one of the highest rated centers in the dang league (I think he was listed in top ten, but I’m too lazy to look up, lol)
The other draft pick that was bizarre was the DE Chad Thomas. He was a 5 star recruit out of high school, but never reached that level of stardom at Miami. I know he came into the year healing from a hernia surgery, so that probably put him behind, but still…why was he drafted? He’s not known to be a great pass rusher. He doesn’t have the reputation for being the hardest worker on the field. It just seemed like a bit of a mystery, but again, it’s early, and maybe Dorsey found a gem that will start shining next year.
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Avery as a 5th rounder is out-playing the hell out of his draft status and Schobert is doing the same thing(4th rounder)
Avery has been excelling in the run game and as a pass rusher and will continue to get better. He needs to work on his pass coverage skills and that is no secret.
That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to go after another LB if there is a very high graded one available when Cleveland is on the clock.
I’m sure there will be more depth in the front 7 next year along with the front 7 being better/more developed.
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