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  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @mark-o said:

    The Browns were looking for a leader of men, a respected man who knew their team, and not the best available offensive mind, which was the flavor of the month. They were looking for the best coach, in terms of presence, building a team, and scheming a modern offense and defense.

    The underlined kinda tilted the playing field there

    @flugel said:

    Freddie said in his presser that he will be calling the plays - not the OC.

    I need better sources...

    Nothing wrong with this approach, but for me the key will be where Freddie spends his time when the D is on the field. With our young QB at least the first minutes need to be by his side. This is what McVay does with Goff in LA... this is what Hue never did with Kizer.

    McVay has Wade Phillips... Hue had Williams... Kitch has Wilks. None have (or had) a reason not to be by their QB.

    @tour2ma said:

    I need better sources...

    Nothing wrong with this approach, but for me the key will be where Freddie spends his time when the D is on the field. With our young QB at least the first minutes need to be by his side. This is what McVay does with Goff in LA... this is what Hue never did with Kizer.

    McVay has Wade Phillips... Hue had Williams... Kitch has Wilks. None have (or had) a reason not to be by their QB.

    Ok, then why didn't you show me better sources (than Freddie) saying Freddie won't be calling the plays?   The biggest reason I wanted to listen to the presser after he was hired (on www.clevelandbrowns.com) was to get an idea of what the plan was for him as a 1st time HC.  I didn't want us to mess up the continuity of the drastic improvement in our offense over the final 8 weeks of the year.   I mean that from the spike in our rookie QB's numbers/efficiency to watching new players that struggled everywhere but Cleveland become reliable in important roles (like Perriman and Robinson).  I also noticed details like our WRs blocking people downfield when they weren't getting thrown to.  We also had a rookie RB average 5.2 yards a carry.  All that can be coached up during the week if you have the right guy in charge.   I've always felt the OC's that adapt well on game day are the ones that prepare best for opponents' strengths and situational tendencies to the extent they know exactly who to use and how to use them.   Freddie did that so I wanted to hear he'll still do that and look to his new OC as a very valuable consultant and important weekly preparation piece. Todd Monken can also help him either coach up players on the sideline (even though we have position coaches for that as well) or be an invaluable resource from above looking at what the defense is doing and where the ideal areas to exploit are.  An OC just doesn't call plays.  I see this as an ideal opportunity for Monken to come in here and prove to Freddie he can take on more as time goes on to eventually free himself up for more of the bigger picture. The reason I feel this way is I just watched Freddie go from position coach to looking like a very polished OC so I'm guessing he has a hope Monken can come in and grasp what's off the ground and help him get it soaring to all new heights. 

    Everything else you wrote was extremely well said.

    I think we can all agree McVay is very fortunate to have Wade Phillips perpetuating the unique situation of all the young HC has to be is an OC throughout the week and on game day.  That said, Andy Reid has been the same thing McVay has been since he took over Philly way back when they drafted McNabb #2 overall in 99 (and went to the playoffs from 2000-2010 w/ 5 NFC Championship appearances and 1 SB).  Not bad considering Philly had the worst record in the NFL in 98; and they would have drafted 1st if Cleveland wasn't re-entering the league.  The BIGGEST difference I saw is Reid never had the quality of Wade Phillips at DC.  Reid is doing the same thing in KC; but he's still in search of a Wade Phillips coordinating his defense. That said, KC was still just a Dee Ford lining up off sides away from sealing the deal.  

    Anyway, the last time Denver won a SB, their MVP was Von Miller.  The irony of that was all those countless years Peyton Manning was an MVP/Pro Bowl QB - he could only win 1 SB.  The 1 year Manning played like he needed to retire - Denver won the SB swarming Carolina's offense to the extent Carolina only scored 1 TD.  That was HUGE considering the reality Denver's offense only had 11 first downs and 1 TD while it only converted 1 of 14 3rd downs against Wilks' (Carolina) Defense. The only guy that came close to standing out for Denver's offense was CJ Anderson with 90 yrds rushing Today, Gary Kubiak has a SB Championship on his HC resume thanks in large to Wade Phillips simplifying Kubiak's work to just the offense.  Irony here is Denver looked to Wade Phillips on Defense and the same CJ Anderson (minus 20 lbs) the LA Rams are now looking to.   And we're going to be looking to DC Wilks  (whose defense only gave up 1 offensive TD in the SB as well as limiting Denver to converting only 1 of 14 3rd downs) in 2019.   Now, if we can strengthen our defensive personnel this off season - I like our ability to take the next step.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    👍
  • FlugelF Flugel

    @tour2ma said:

    I need better sources...

    Nothing wrong with this approach, but for me the key will be where Freddie spends his time when the D is on the field. With our young QB at least the first minutes need to be by his side. This is what McVay does with Goff in LA... this is what Hue never did with Kizer.

    McVay has Wade Phillips... Hue had Williams... Kitch has Wilks. None have (or had) a reason not to be by their QB.

    Ok, then why didn't you show me better sources (than Freddie) saying Freddie won't be calling the plays?   The biggest reason I wanted to listen to the presser after he was hired (on www.clevelandbrowns.com) was to get an idea of what the plan was for him as a 1st time HC.  I didn't want us to mess up the continuity of the drastic improvement in our offense over the final 8 weeks of the year.   I mean that from the spike in our rookie QB's numbers/efficiency to watching new players that struggled everywhere but Cleveland become reliable in important roles (like Perriman and Robinson).  I also noticed details like our WRs blocking people downfield when they weren't getting thrown to.  We also had a rookie RB average 5.2 yards a carry.  All that can be coached up during the week if you have the right guy in charge.   I've always felt the OC's that adapt well on game day are the ones that prepare best for opponents' strengths and situational tendencies to the extent they know exactly who to use and how to use them.   Freddie did that so I wanted to hear he'll still do that and look to his new OC as a very valuable consultant and important weekly preparation piece. Todd Monken can also help him either coach up players on the sideline (even though we have position coaches for that as well) or be an invaluable resource from above looking at what the defense is doing and where the ideal areas to exploit are.  An OC just doesn't call plays.  I see this as an ideal opportunity for Monken to come in here and prove to Freddie he can take on more as time goes on to eventually free himself up for more of the bigger picture. The reason I feel this way is I just watched Freddie go from position coach to looking like a very polished OC so I'm guessing he has a hope Monken can come in and grasp what's off the ground and help him get it soaring to all new heights. 

    Everything else you wrote was extremely well said.

    I think we can all agree McVay is very fortunate to have Wade Phillips perpetuating the unique situation of all the young HC has to be is an OC throughout the week and on game day.  That said, Andy Reid has been the same thing McVay has been since he took over Philly way back when they drafted McNabb #2 overall in 99 (and went to the playoffs from 2000-2010 w/ 5 NFC Championship appearances and 1 SB).  Not bad considering Philly had the worst record in the NFL in 98; and they would have drafted 1st if Cleveland wasn't re-entering the league.  The BIGGEST difference I saw is Reid never had the quality of Wade Phillips at DC.  Reid is doing the same thing in KC; but he's still in search of a Wade Phillips coordinating his defense. That said, KC was still just a Dee Ford lining up off sides away from sealing the deal.  

    Anyway, the last time Denver won a SB, their MVP was Von Miller.  The irony of that was all those countless years Peyton Manning was an MVP/Pro Bowl QB - he could only win 1 SB.  The 1 year Manning played like he needed to retire - Denver won the SB swarming Carolina's offense to the extent Carolina only scored 1 TD.  That was HUGE considering the reality Denver's offense only had 11 first downs and 1 TD while it only converted 1 of 14 3rd downs against Wilks' (Carolina) Defense. The only guy that came close to standing out for Denver's offense was CJ Anderson with 90 yrds rushing Today, Gary Kubiak has a SB Championship on his HC resume thanks in large to Wade Phillips simplifying Kubiak's work to just the offense.  Irony here is Denver looked to Wade Phillips on Defense and the same CJ Anderson (minus 20 lbs) the LA Rams are now looking to.   And we're going to be looking to DC Wilks  (whose defense only gave up 1 offensive TD in the SB as well as limiting Denver to converting only 1 of 14 3rd downs) in 2019.   Now, if we can strengthen our defensive personnel this off season - I like our ability to take the next step.

    @flugel said:

    Everything else you wrote was extremely well said.

    So was the part you misread...

    I need better sources... as in "I was mistaken"... not "I need a better source than you".

    Now... don't you feel silly?

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    👍
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @flugel said:

    Everything else you wrote was extremely well said.

    So was the part you misread...

    I need better sources... as in "I was mistaken"... not "I need a better source than you".

    Now... don't you feel silly?

    @tour2ma said:

    So was the part you misread...

    I need better sources... as in "I was mistaken"... not "I need a better source than you".

    Now... don't you feel silly?

    Silly?  No!   Dumber than a pet rock?  Yes!    

    I was wondering how the Hell does a need a better source than Freddie! 

    Now where did I put my village idiot hat?

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
  • FlugelF Flugel

    @tour2ma said:

    So was the part you misread...

    I need better sources... as in "I was mistaken"... not "I need a better source than you".

    Now... don't you feel silly?

    Silly?  No!   Dumber than a pet rock?  Yes!    

    I was wondering how the Hell does a need a better source than Freddie! 

    Now where did I put my village idiot hat?

    @flugel said:

    Silly?  No!   Dumber than a pet rock?  Yes!    

    I was wondering how the Hell does a need a better source than Freddie! 

    Now where did I put my village idiot hat?

    lol... no need for one, my friend.

    It's not like we don't have a lil "history"...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    There are not many vacancies remaining on Freddie Kitchens' first coaching staff with the Browns. The team announced Steve Wilks as defensive coordinator, Todd Monken as offensive coordinator, Mike Priefer as special teams coordinator, Stump Mitchell as running backs/run game coordinator, James Campen as offensive line/associate head coach, Ryan Lindley as quarterback coach, Jody Wright as special assistant to the head coach, Jim Dray as offensive quality control coach, Tyler Tettleton as offensive quality control coach, Joe Whitt as pass game coordinator/secondary coach, Al Holcomb as run game coordinator/linebackers coach, Chris Jones as senior defensive assistant, Tosh Lupoi as defensive line coach, John Lilly as tight ends coach, John Parrella as assistant defensive line coach and Jeff Blasko as assistant offensive line coach. In addition, Adam Henry will remain wide receivers coach and DeWayne Walker will remain defensive backs coach.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    There are not many vacancies remaining on Freddie Kitchens' first coaching staff with the Browns. The team announced Steve Wilks as defensive coordinator, Todd Monken as offensive coordinator, Mike Priefer as special teams coordinator, Stump Mitchell as running backs/run game coordinator, James Campen as offensive line/associate head coach, Ryan Lindley as quarterback coach, Jody Wright as special assistant to the head coach, Jim Dray as offensive quality control coach, Tyler Tettleton as offensive quality control coach, Joe Whitt as pass game coordinator/secondary coach, Al Holcomb as run game coordinator/linebackers coach, Chris Jones as senior defensive assistant, Tosh Lupoi as defensive line coach, John Lilly as tight ends coach, John Parrella as assistant defensive line coach and Jeff Blasko as assistant offensive line coach. In addition, Adam Henry will remain wide receivers coach and DeWayne Walker will remain defensive backs coach.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    @tour2ma said:

    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Tour2maT gumby73G Canton MikeC hoortaH 4 Replies
  • Z Zombo

    @tour2ma said:

    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Zombo said:

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    Makes more sense...

    Guess I had a Senior moment... or as I like to call them, "a Flugel."

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Z Zombo

    @tour2ma said:

    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Zombo said:

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    here's today's Introductory presser from Steve Wilks.. 

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
  • Z Zombo

    @tour2ma said:

    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Zombo said:

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Well, there's always Jackson & Horton.  ?

    Mike

    IN DORSEY I TRUST
  • Z Zombo

    @tour2ma said:

    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    We're adding a Defensive QC Coach...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-hire-Saints-Deuce-Schwartz--128454334/

    Here's a summary from the short article of our staff so far... not many slots left to fill.

    I'd missed the Jim Dray signing... good to see our last blocking TE coming home.

    Also missed the interesting duty mix for Al Holcomb. "Run game Coord/ LB Coach" is an atypical combo. Ditto Joe Whitt's "Pass game/2ndary" combo... Kinda new fangled stuff there. At least I'm not aware of position coaches splitting time between sides of the ball in the past.

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Zombo said:

    I took it to mean Defensive run game coordinator and Defensive Pass Game coordinator under the Wilks umbrella.

    The coaching staff looks great. Even better, Cincy is the last in the door, out there looking for scraps.

    Zombo

    Exactly where we were when Mike Pettine was scrounging around. Combine is in a couple weeks, they probably bought every draft guide they could find. Still don't have a DC (though John Fox is out there), and their first time OC is Brian Callahan, Bill Callahan's son.

  • This showed up in the Dayton paper, couldn't copy it- but I did find the original article in the Akron Beacon Journal.  May be of interest....  🙂  Seems our special teams coach is originally from the Cleveland area, and his Dad coached at Padua....   

    https://www.ohio.com/sports/20190207/browns-notebook-new-special-teams-coach-mike-priefer-setting-high-bar

  • https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/18/dont-expect-browns-to-use-more-than-2-lbs-very-often/

    Very interesting read on Wilks.

    “It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.”
    tiamat63T flyingfooldougF 2 Replies
  • htownbrownH htownbrown

    https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/18/dont-expect-browns-to-use-more-than-2-lbs-very-often/

    Very interesting read on Wilks.

    @htownbrown said:

    https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/18/dont-expect-browns-to-use-more-than-2-lbs-very-often/

    Very interesting read on Wilks.

    As such is the way of the league anymore.   Puts even more emphasis on the big nickel and the front 4 being able to draw even limiting the run. 

  • htownbrownH htownbrown

    https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/18/dont-expect-browns-to-use-more-than-2-lbs-very-often/

    Very interesting read on Wilks.

    @htownbrown said:

    https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/18/dont-expect-browns-to-use-more-than-2-lbs-very-often/

    Very interesting read on Wilks.

    Makes lots of sense for a pass happy league

  • ST coach Mike Phiefer  https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2019/05/were-the-cleveland-browns-playing-the-wrong-players-on-special-teams-last-year-doug-lesmerises.html     ...Word ?      

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
  • gumby73G gumby73

    ST coach Mike Phiefer  https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2019/05/were-the-cleveland-browns-playing-the-wrong-players-on-special-teams-last-year-doug-lesmerises.html     ...Word ?      

    @gumby73 said:

    ST coach Mike Phiefer  https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2019/05/were-the-cleveland-browns-playing-the-wrong-players-on-special-teams-last-year-doug-lesmerises.html     ...Word ?      

    There are at least a couple more wins that could have been had last year had it not been for Famous Amos's STs. Like the DL, I'm glad they understand the major fix that was needed to get us playoff bound.

    👍
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