Looking back on Bill
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Look, I understand and have always understood your legal ee's point. But it does not jive with what we, as Browns fans, went through. They way to explain what happened to us was that our team moved away and THEN won a super bowl. The ultimate snub. As has been said, we got an expansion team that was called the Browns.
The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
If the players, coaches and staff moved... Let's rather say that all the house was lifted by its foundations and moved elsewhere, while they poured salt on the soil and the now homeless guys kept only the sign in the front.
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The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
If the players, coaches and staff moved... Let's rather say that all the house was lifted by its foundations and moved elsewhere, while they poured salt on the soil and the now homeless guys kept only the sign in the front.
If the players, coaches and staff moved... Let's rather say that all the house was lifted by its foundations and moved elsewhere, while they poured salt on the soil and the now homeless guys kept only the sign in the front.
Let’s not say that because that would be wrong. The fans are the foundation. The stadium in the facilities are the walls and floors. The house obviously needed some renovation but it still is The same house.
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If the players, coaches and staff moved... Let's rather say that all the house was lifted by its foundations and moved elsewhere, while they poured salt on the soil and the now homeless guys kept only the sign in the front.
Let’s not say that because that would be wrong. The fans are the foundation. The stadium in the facilities are the walls and floors. The house obviously needed some renovation but it still is The same house.
Let’s not say that because that would be wrong.
And they peed on grandma's tomb before leaving.
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Look, I understand and have always understood your legal ee's point. But it does not jive with what we, as Browns fans, went through. They way to explain what happened to us was that our team moved away and THEN won a super bowl. The ultimate snub. As has been said, we got an expansion team that was called the Browns.
The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
We'll just let Flugs believe the franchise moved, he's hopeless... The analogy I used way back was your corner McDonald's. Building is still there, but owner moved his equipment and employees over to a new Micky D's franchise on the other side of town.. So the corporation took over the old place, and sold it to a new owner- who renovated it, filled it with new equipment and employees...
And they peed on grandma's tomb before leaving.
Modell "I had no choice"= lie. He could have sold out to Al Lerner then and there. Nope, he wanted the glory of still being an NFL owner, and passing the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice that he ended up with neither... However, a guy peed on Modell's grave after he died and put it on YouTube... . Should have left some dog poop there while he was at it. So the more irate Cleveland fans got their revenge in the end too... I said when he passed on the family should have had him cremated, because it was bound to happen sooner or later...
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The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
We'll just let Flugs believe the franchise moved, he's hopeless... The analogy I used way back was your corner McDonald's. Building is still there, but owner moved his equipment and employees over to a new Micky D's franchise on the other side of town.. So the corporation took over the old place, and sold it to a new owner- who renovated it, filled it with new equipment and employees...
And they peed on grandma's tomb before leaving.
Modell "I had no choice"= lie. He could have sold out to Al Lerner then and there. Nope, he wanted the glory of still being an NFL owner, and passing the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice that he ended up with neither... However, a guy peed on Modell's grave after he died and put it on YouTube... . Should have left some dog poop there while he was at it. So the more irate Cleveland fans got their revenge in the end too... I said when he passed on the family should have had him cremated, because it was bound to happen sooner or later...
a guy peed on Modell's grave after he died and put it on YouTube...
Putting it on youtube was brilliant. Is he outa' jail yet?
( I guess if ya don't put it on youtube, nobody knows it was done )
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
The house analogy I think is the best. There was a house in Cleveland called the Browns. The guy that owned the house moved and took the furniture with him. Title deed to the house stayed in a trust. The foundation of the house stayed the walls and the floor and ceiling the roof all stayed. What was taken Were the couches chairs the bed and the pots and pans. I don’t know how much more simply I can try to make people understand.
We'll just let Flugs believe the franchise moved, he's hopeless... The analogy I used way back was your corner McDonald's. Building is still there, but owner moved his equipment and employees over to a new Micky D's franchise on the other side of town.. So the corporation took over the old place, and sold it to a new owner- who renovated it, filled it with new equipment and employees...
And they peed on grandma's tomb before leaving.
Modell "I had no choice"= lie. He could have sold out to Al Lerner then and there. Nope, he wanted the glory of still being an NFL owner, and passing the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice that he ended up with neither... However, a guy peed on Modell's grave after he died and put it on YouTube... . Should have left some dog poop there while he was at it. So the more irate Cleveland fans got their revenge in the end too... I said when he passed on the family should have had him cremated, because it was bound to happen sooner or later...
We'll just let Flugs believe the franchise moved, he's hopeless... The analogy I used way back was your corner McDonald's. Building is still there, but owner moved his equipment and employees over to a new Micky D's franchise on the other side of town.. So the corporation took over the old place, and sold it to a new owner- who renovated it, filled it with new equipment and employees...
Modell "I had no choice"= lie. He could have sold out to Al Lerner then and there. Nope, he wanted the glory of still being an NFL owner, and passing the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice that he ended up with neither... However, a guy peed on Modell's grave after he died and put it on YouTube... . Should have left some dog poop there while he was at it. So the more irate Cleveland fans got their revenge in the end too... I said when he passed on the family should have had him cremated, because it was bound to happen sooner or later...
Well, to give Art a tiny benefit of doubt, wouldn't you want to be an owner even if it moved? I mean there are only 32 NFL franchises in the world.
And I think your McDonalds analogy is excellent.
I've never been to Cleveland being from Va, so just going by looking it up, but to expand even more on that. Instead of using McDonald's, use In N Out Burger or Wahlburgers. Neither have a place in Va that I know of. So the owner tries to move that place to Virginia, and for whatever reason.
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We'll just let Flugs believe the franchise moved, he's hopeless... The analogy I used way back was your corner McDonald's. Building is still there, but owner moved his equipment and employees over to a new Micky D's franchise on the other side of town.. So the corporation took over the old place, and sold it to a new owner- who renovated it, filled it with new equipment and employees...
Modell "I had no choice"= lie. He could have sold out to Al Lerner then and there. Nope, he wanted the glory of still being an NFL owner, and passing the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice that he ended up with neither... However, a guy peed on Modell's grave after he died and put it on YouTube... . Should have left some dog poop there while he was at it. So the more irate Cleveland fans got their revenge in the end too... I said when he passed on the family should have had him cremated, because it was bound to happen sooner or later...
Well, to give Art a tiny benefit of doubt, wouldn't you want to be an owner even if it moved? I mean there are only 32 NFL franchises in the world.
And I think your McDonalds analogy is excellent.
I've never been to Cleveland being from Va, so just going by looking it up, but to expand even more on that. Instead of using McDonald's, use In N Out Burger or Wahlburgers. Neither have a place in Va that I know of. So the owner tries to move that place to Virginia, and for whatever reason.
Well, to give Art a tiny benefit of doubt, wouldn't you want to be an owner even if it moved? I mean there are only 32 NFL franchises in the world.
And I think your McDonalds analogy is excellent.
I've never been to Cleveland being from Va, so just going by looking it up, but to expand even more on that. Instead of using McDonald's, use In N Out Burger or Wahlburgers. Neither have a place in Va that I know of. So the owner tries to move that place to Virginia, and for whatever reason.
I think it all depends on the fan themselves. Having been here to see the Chargers move to LA, most long time SD Chargers fans who want nothing to do with the team because they're in LA. If they had moved to Vegas or San Antonio or Mexico City or anywhere other than LA, I think they would still support the team but LA is the enemy. There are some who don't care whether they are in LA or SD, they are Chargers fans and will support them anywhere. Based on attendance, there are far fewer of them.
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Putting it on youtube was brilliant. Is he outa' jail yet?
( I guess if ya don't put it on youtube, nobody knows it was done )
I think he might have gotten into some trouble over it- nothing major.... I'm sure it's been done plenty of other times, without the fanfare....
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I agree with you, I'm just saying it appears as if some are not using it in the same way. As in everything that encompasses the franchise moved, while the Cleveland Browns stayed.
I look at it as the team moved, not the franchise. The team being all the people, etc
At least someone gets where me & Gip are coming from. The young 'uns may not be aware of how hard some of us worked when Modell pulled the rug out from under us (this was before the Internet really took off) jamming the NFL's Fax machines, picketing their office in New York to at least get table scraps. Modell got plenty of death threats, bet that made him think twice about going out in public for awhile. Some Browns fans recognized him eating in a restaurant in (I believe it was) West Palm shortly after, and gave him a full fledged barrage of profanity before they were asked to leave, letting him know on a personal level exactly how the fans felt. Our name, our colors. Best lawyers in Cleveland donated their time to make it happen.
At least someone gets where me & Gip are coming from. The young 'uns may not be aware of how hard some of us worked when Modell pulled the rug out from under us (this was before the Internet really took off) jamming the NFL's Fax machines, picketing their office in New York to at least get table scraps. Modell got plenty of death threats, bet that made him think twice about going out in public for awhile. Some Browns fans recognized him eating in a restaurant in (I believe it was) West Palm shortly after, and gave him a full fledged barrage of profanity before they were asked to leave, letting him know on a personal level exactly how the fans felt. Our name, our colors. Best lawyers in Cleveland donated their time to make it happen.
Nobody is blasting the fan base Larry. Just the opposite. You keep saying the franchise never left but there was no football in Cleveland in 96, 97, and 98 before there was 5-27 football in 99 and 2000 right? 2 winning seasons in 20 years has tarnished the reputation and resume of the Glory years we enjoyed in the 80s and our previous family members enjoyed in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Modell buried that no matter how much you want to spin it. Today? We're finally feeling some legit hope something is being built the right way 23 years after the move.
The Cleveland Rams established in 1936 - moved to LA in 1945. The Cleveland Browns kicked off for the 1st time in 1946 - did the previous colors, name or anything from that move prevent fans from getting interested in whatever professional football team CLEVELAND put on the field? In fact, they didn't even join the NFL until after they dominated the AAFC with 4 consecutive Championships in every ear they participated. Then they joined the NFL and went to 6 consecutive Championship Games while winning 6 of those. Guess what solves everything when it comes to getting fans interested? Nobody gave a crap that they weren't the Rams right?
After getting Modell'd, Paul Brown reminded us the way to stick it up Modell's asss was to keep the orange helmets and get to the SB before Art could. Land ho! Having said that, the city of Baltimore once felt like they'd never root for another NFL team with a different name and team colors than the Colts. After there was no NFL in Baltimore - absence made the heart grow fonder for a Pro Team. They had no trouble selling games out; especially when they started frequenting playoffs and winning SBs.
YES, our fans had a lot to do with keeping the colors and team name we are happy about. But, there's no pretending how much was lost regardless of semantics. My friend had a very successful pizza business that he franchised. The most essential ingredients aside from location and name of the franchise are product, leadership, employees, advertising, and customer service/satisfaction. That's where a lot of us are coming from. In the last 20 years - how often have we read or voiced complaints about customer satisfaction, leadership, personnel choices, and product on the field?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
At least someone gets where me & Gip are coming from. The young 'uns may not be aware of how hard some of us worked when Modell pulled the rug out from under us (this was before the Internet really took off) jamming the NFL's Fax machines, picketing their office in New York to at least get table scraps. Modell got plenty of death threats, bet that made him think twice about going out in public for awhile. Some Browns fans recognized him eating in a restaurant in (I believe it was) West Palm shortly after, and gave him a full fledged barrage of profanity before they were asked to leave, letting him know on a personal level exactly how the fans felt. Our name, our colors. Best lawyers in Cleveland donated their time to make it happen.
Nobody is blasting the fan base Larry. Just the opposite. You keep saying the franchise never left but there was no football in Cleveland in 96, 97, and 98 before there was 5-27 football in 99 and 2000 right? 2 winning seasons in 20 years has tarnished the reputation and resume of the Glory years we enjoyed in the 80s and our previous family members enjoyed in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Modell buried that no matter how much you want to spin it. Today? We're finally feeling some legit hope something is being built the right way 23 years after the move.
The Cleveland Rams established in 1936 - moved to LA in 1945. The Cleveland Browns kicked off for the 1st time in 1946 - did the previous colors, name or anything from that move prevent fans from getting interested in whatever professional football team CLEVELAND put on the field? In fact, they didn't even join the NFL until after they dominated the AAFC with 4 consecutive Championships in every ear they participated. Then they joined the NFL and went to 6 consecutive Championship Games while winning 6 of those. Guess what solves everything when it comes to getting fans interested? Nobody gave a crap that they weren't the Rams right?
After getting Modell'd, Paul Brown reminded us the way to stick it up Modell's asss was to keep the orange helmets and get to the SB before Art could. Land ho! Having said that, the city of Baltimore once felt like they'd never root for another NFL team with a different name and team colors than the Colts. After there was no NFL in Baltimore - absence made the heart grow fonder for a Pro Team. They had no trouble selling games out; especially when they started frequenting playoffs and winning SBs.
YES, our fans had a lot to do with keeping the colors and team name we are happy about. But, there's no pretending how much was lost regardless of semantics. My friend had a very successful pizza business that he franchised. The most essential ingredients aside from location and name of the franchise are product, leadership, employees, advertising, and customer service/satisfaction. That's where a lot of us are coming from. In the last 20 years - how often have we read or voiced complaints about customer satisfaction, leadership, personnel choices, and product on the field?
YES, our fans had a lot to do with keeping the colors and team name we are happy about. But, there's no pretending how much was lost regardless of semantics. My friend had a very successful pizza business that he franchised. The most essential ingredients aside from location and name of the franchise are product, leadership, employees, advertising, and customer service/satisfaction. That's where a lot of us are coming from. In the last 20 years - how often have we read or voiced complaints about customer satisfaction, leadership, personnel choices, and product on the field?
I'll just leave it at that- we just see things a little differently. There's no denying something (in fact a lot of "things") were lost when Modell pulled the rug out from under us... The NFL was unhappy the Panthers and Jaguars got too good, too fast- so they pretty much stuck it to the Browns when they came back. Bad management, with little time to prepare. The young 'uns may not remember Kurt Warner was available to the Browns in the '99 expansion draft- the first of many glaring draft gaffes over the next 20 years. The primary reason the Browns sucked big time in that time span. In fact- the Gilbert\ Manziel fiasco is in serious discussion as the worst first round screw up in history...
The new stadium was like a church most of that time and overrun by opposing teams fans. It wasn't until this past season the crowd noise level started approaching what it was in the old place. So let's hope that's all in the past, it's past time for the Browns to make a playoff push...
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Peeing on Modell's grave was sort of a novel idea...but hardly original.
The good people of Baltimore beat the Brown's fans buy a few years.
Fuck that. He's still a man's father.
WSS
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At least someone gets where me & Gip are coming from. The young 'uns may not be aware of how hard some of us worked when Modell pulled the rug out from under us (this was before the Internet really took off) jamming the NFL's Fax machines, picketing their office in New York to at least get table scraps. Modell got plenty of death threats, bet that made him think twice about going out in public for awhile. Some Browns fans recognized him eating in a restaurant in (I believe it was) West Palm shortly after, and gave him a full fledged barrage of profanity before they were asked to leave, letting him know on a personal level exactly how the fans felt. Our name, our colors. Best lawyers in Cleveland donated their time to make it happen.
Nobody is blasting the fan base Larry. Just the opposite. You keep saying the franchise never left but there was no football in Cleveland in 96, 97, and 98 before there was 5-27 football in 99 and 2000 right? 2 winning seasons in 20 years has tarnished the reputation and resume of the Glory years we enjoyed in the 80s and our previous family members enjoyed in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Modell buried that no matter how much you want to spin it. Today? We're finally feeling some legit hope something is being built the right way 23 years after the move.
The Cleveland Rams established in 1936 - moved to LA in 1945. The Cleveland Browns kicked off for the 1st time in 1946 - did the previous colors, name or anything from that move prevent fans from getting interested in whatever professional football team CLEVELAND put on the field? In fact, they didn't even join the NFL until after they dominated the AAFC with 4 consecutive Championships in every ear they participated. Then they joined the NFL and went to 6 consecutive Championship Games while winning 6 of those. Guess what solves everything when it comes to getting fans interested? Nobody gave a crap that they weren't the Rams right?
After getting Modell'd, Paul Brown reminded us the way to stick it up Modell's asss was to keep the orange helmets and get to the SB before Art could. Land ho! Having said that, the city of Baltimore once felt like they'd never root for another NFL team with a different name and team colors than the Colts. After there was no NFL in Baltimore - absence made the heart grow fonder for a Pro Team. They had no trouble selling games out; especially when they started frequenting playoffs and winning SBs.
YES, our fans had a lot to do with keeping the colors and team name we are happy about. But, there's no pretending how much was lost regardless of semantics. My friend had a very successful pizza business that he franchised. The most essential ingredients aside from location and name of the franchise are product, leadership, employees, advertising, and customer service/satisfaction. That's where a lot of us are coming from. In the last 20 years - how often have we read or voiced complaints about customer satisfaction, leadership, personnel choices, and product on the field?
Nobody is blasting the fan base Larry. Just the opposite. You keep saying the franchise never left but there was no football in Cleveland in 96, 97, and 98 before there was 5-27 football in 99 and 2000 right? 2 winning seasons in 20 years has tarnished the reputation and resume of the Glory years we enjoyed in the 80s and our previous family members enjoyed in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Modell buried that no matter how much you want to spin it. Today? We're finally feeling some legit hope something is being built the right way 23 years after the move.
The Cleveland Rams established in 1936 - moved to LA in 1945. The Cleveland Browns kicked off for the 1st time in 1946 - did the previous colors, name or anything from that move prevent fans from getting interested in whatever professional football team CLEVELAND put on the field? In fact, they didn't even join the NFL until after they dominated the AAFC with 4 consecutive Championships in every ear they participated. Then they joined the NFL and went to 6 consecutive Championship Games while winning 6 of those. Guess what solves everything when it comes to getting fans interested? Nobody gave a crap that they weren't the Rams right?
After getting Modell'd, Paul Brown reminded us the way to stick it up Modell's asss was to keep the orange helmets and get to the SB before Art could. Land ho! Having said that, the city of Baltimore once felt like they'd never root for another NFL team with a different name and team colors than the Colts. After there was no NFL in Baltimore - absence made the heart grow fonder for a Pro Team. They had no trouble selling games out; especially when they started frequenting playoffs and winning SBs.
YES, our fans had a lot to do with keeping the colors and team name we are happy about. But, there's no pretending how much was lost regardless of semantics. My friend had a very successful pizza business that he franchised. The most essential ingredients aside from location and name of the franchise are product, leadership, employees, advertising, and customer service/satisfaction. That's where a lot of us are coming from. In the last 20 years - how often have we read or voiced complaints about customer satisfaction, leadership, personnel choices, and product on the field?
But doesn't that show that the franchise didn't leave? Not that it makes much difference to me how you feel, or look at the semantics (not meaning that in a jerk way, you have your opinion and it's yours no matter what and no reason to feel some way for your heart), but when Baltimore got the Ravens, they couldn't be the Colts because the franchise moved, everything it entailed, whereas with the Browns, the rights to the franchise didn't.
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