Don't Bet Against Quinn
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@shepwrite said:
Consider it betten.Unless it's the biggest hoax ever, it's been oft reported that Quinn can throw 70 yards to an actual receiver. Doerschuck called it his "trick."
yeah you've been trying to say that forever.
problem is, we don't need your "oft reported" bullshit. we actually saw him try to go deep. and it wasn't pretty.
Quinn couldn't throw a baseball 70 yds.
yeah you've been trying to say that forever.
problem is, we don't need your "oft reported" bullshit. we actually saw him try to go deep. and it wasn't pretty.
Quinn couldn't throw a baseball 70 yds.
Ok I can give you that,
But remember, we've seen DA try to throw the ball five yards - which is thrown a lot more than the 70 yard ball in the NFL -- and it wasn't pretty.
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yeah you've been trying to say that forever.
problem is, we don't need your "oft reported" bullshit. we actually saw him try to go deep. and it wasn't pretty.
Quinn couldn't throw a baseball 70 yds.
Ok I can give you that,
But remember, we've seen DA try to throw the ball five yards - which is thrown a lot more than the 70 yard ball in the NFL -- and it wasn't pretty.
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And to the guy from Arizona who keeps insisting DA never improved in college... his completion percentage went from 46.4 to 54.7 over the course of his starting years, his TD/Int ratio went from 1/1 his junior year under a new coach and offense to almost 2/1 his senior year.... All this while going through 2 coaches and 2 offenses in 3 years and playing a schedule Sagarin rated as the #2 toughest schedule in the nation his senior year. Not saying his numbers were tremendous, but he definitely had improvement even though he had no running game around him and was working in a system he'd only been in for a year. If Leinart had been in the same situation he'd have people saying he sucked as a college QB too, rather than winning the Heisman that year.
I guess you can consider that an improvement, but it's really not a significant one. In fact, his TD:INT ratio DECREASED from his sophomore to junior year, only to spike in his senior year. That shows me nothing but inconsistency and mediocrity.
I guess you can consider that an improvement, but it's really not a significant one. In fact, his TD:INT ratio DECREASED from his sophomore to junior year, only to spike in his senior year. That shows me nothing but inconsistency and mediocrity.
The coaches and the offense changed after his sophomore year.
If you take a look at the history of quaterback performances under coach Riley at OSU, you'll find... DA was one of the leaders in the nation for Ints his first year in the offense and led the nation the first few weeks the next year then improved. He's in the NFL now. His immediate replacement, Matt Moore, led the nation in Int's his first year in the offense, and also the first few weeks of his second year in the system. He's in the NFL now. His immediate replacements, Sean Canfield and Lyle Moevao, combined to lead the nation in Ints their first year (even though Canfield had been in the system for a year or two) and again led the nation for the first couple weeks of the next year... yet to be seen if one of these guys goes on to the NFL.
High risk, high reward. Apparently it's a tough O to break into. One thing each of the newer kids have that DA did not get the benefit of is a very good offensive line and a very decent to great running game every year they've played. DA did have a great running game, but a poor line by all accounts, his junior year. His senior year he was on his own, behind a weak line and no running help, yet he did improve. I'd have loved to see him play behind the line the Beavers have now, even one more year in the system would have made a huge difference in many people's perception of him.
When you look at a QB, you need to look at the hand their dealt. Even the best QB is going to have a tough time without a solid team around him.
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Thanks Drunk, you are correct I was wrong. Went back and double checked what I thought and you are correct. 2 - 1 in bowl games and no wins VS USC. But did play one of the hardest schedules in the country every year. Out of curiosity what was ND's schedule ranked during BQs reign?
Either way this has nothing to do with how they will do as pros, which is actually my point. But sorry for the misrepresentation.
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I guess you can consider that an improvement, but it's really not a significant one. In fact, his TD:INT ratio DECREASED from his sophomore to junior year, only to spike in his senior year. That shows me nothing but inconsistency and mediocrity.
The coaches and the offense changed after his sophomore year.
If you take a look at the history of quaterback performances under coach Riley at OSU, you'll find... DA was one of the leaders in the nation for Ints his first year in the offense and led the nation the first few weeks the next year then improved. He's in the NFL now. His immediate replacement, Matt Moore, led the nation in Int's his first year in the offense, and also the first few weeks of his second year in the system. He's in the NFL now. His immediate replacements, Sean Canfield and Lyle Moevao, combined to lead the nation in Ints their first year (even though Canfield had been in the system for a year or two) and again led the nation for the first couple weeks of the next year... yet to be seen if one of these guys goes on to the NFL.
High risk, high reward. Apparently it's a tough O to break into. One thing each of the newer kids have that DA did not get the benefit of is a very good offensive line and a very decent to great running game every year they've played. DA did have a great running game, but a poor line by all accounts, his junior year. His senior year he was on his own, behind a weak line and no running help, yet he did improve. I'd have loved to see him play behind the line the Beavers have now, even one more year in the system would have made a huge difference in many people's perception of him.
When you look at a QB, you need to look at the hand their dealt. Even the best QB is going to have a tough time without a solid team around him.
The coaches and the offense changed after his sophomore year.
When you look at a QB, you need to look at the hand their dealt. Even the best QB is going to have a tough time without a solid team around him.
You do understand that both of those sentences apply to Quinn's tenure at Notre Dame, right?
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
@shepwrite said:
Consider it betten.Unless it's the biggest hoax ever, it's been oft reported that Quinn can throw 70 yards to an actual receiver. Doerschuck called it his "trick."
yeah you've been trying to say that forever.
problem is, we don't need your "oft reported" bullshit. we actually saw him try to go deep. and it wasn't pretty.
Quinn couldn't throw a baseball 70 yds.
yeah you've been trying to say that forever.
problem is, we don't need your "oft reported" bullshit. we actually saw him try to go deep. and it wasn't pretty.
Quinn couldn't throw a baseball 70 yds.
I am going to make this easy...in 2008 Joyner did a mid year analysis between Romo and E.Manning to determine who was the better QB. Follow along and you will understand how this is important...patience!!!
At that point in the season, E.Manning had thrown 219 times and Romo 191 times.
Here is the key:
Short passes
Manning: 139 (63.5% of his passes)
Romo: 132 (69.1% of his passes)
Add in the intermediate routes
Manning: 48 (21.9%)
Romo: 35 (19.3%)
And you get
Manning: 187/219 (85.4%)
Romo: 167/191 (87.4%)
So, two QB's that are pretty decent and get their teams to the playoffs pretty consistently are throwing OVER 85% OF THEIR PASSES LESS THAN 20 YARDS
In contrast, the threw the ball over 30 yards:
Manning: 13 (5.9%)
Romo: 10 (5.2%)
Romo is considered a gunslinger by many....so try to tell me now why it is important for Quinn to throw the ball over 70 yards again....no, please....tell me why that is important!!!
When 85% of your success is determined by your short to intermediate passing game, I think the fact a guy can lob it the length of the field is pretty much a moot point!
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The coaches and the offense changed after his sophomore year.
When you look at a QB, you need to look at the hand their dealt. Even the best QB is going to have a tough time without a solid team around him.
You do understand that both of those sentences apply to Quinn's tenure at Notre Dame, right?
You do understand that both of those sentences apply to Quinn's tenure at Notre Dame, right?
Brady Quinn did get a new coach.
The second sentence stands. Nearly every lineman and several receivers Brady Quinn played behind his last two years got drafted, a free agent signing, or a strong sniff from the NFL within a year of his leaving Notre Dame. Several were on team rosters last year. DA had 1 lineman and two receivers that got NFL sniffs within a year of his leaving OSU. I looked it up last year.
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Eric Murtaugh said:
From 2004 to 2006 Notre Dame lost 12 games while Brady Quinn was under center for the Fighting Irish. Given how he has been portrayed as the guy who couldn't win the big game (remind you of a certain player with a blue #18 on his jersey?) you would think Brady Quinn wouldn't have played very well in these losses.But over these 12 losses Quinn amassed the following statistics:
261 for 478 (54.6 %), 3,199 yards, 23 TD—12 INT
Of course, that excludes his first year starting, over which he accumulated the following losing game stats:
- 115 for 245 (46.9 %), 1,328 yards, 6 TD—12 INT
- 61 for 128 (47.7 %), 656 yards, 8 TD—5 INT
- that he didn't always appear composed when facing pressure
- concerns about his accuracy, especially on deep throws (some didn't think this was an issue, but Todd McShay clearly did)
Aloysius said:
So the win/loss rubric may not be all that helpful. You'd be better off looking at Quinn's stats in games where he faced a lot of pressure, like the '06 opener against Georgia Tech. Or just ditching the college stats & judging him based on his play this year.ND faced a dual ground threat in GT's RB (Tashard Choice) & QB not to mention some bum of a NCAA receiver Calvin Johnson. GT ran all over the Irish that game. So what does Quinn do? Runs one in in the final moments of the half to knot it up.
The difference in those "intangibles" (that have become such a bad word for some reason) for me, as a fan, is that I've watched Quinn hate to lose. I have yet to see that from Derek Anderson. I hate to lose too.
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Aloysius said:
So the win/loss rubric may not be all that helpful. You'd be better off looking at Quinn's stats in games where he faced a lot of pressure, like the '06 opener against Georgia Tech. Or just ditching the college stats & judging him based on his play this year.ND faced a dual ground threat in GT's RB (Tashard Choice) & QB not to mention some bum of a NCAA receiver Calvin Johnson. GT ran all over the Irish that game. So what does Quinn do? Runs one in in the final moments of the half to knot it up.
The difference in those "intangibles" (that have become such a bad word for some reason) for me, as a fan, is that I've watched Quinn hate to lose. I have yet to see that from Derek Anderson. I hate to lose too.
ND faced a dual ground threat in GT's RB (Tashard Choice) & QB not to mention some bum of a NCAA receiver Calvin Johnson. GT ran all over the Irish that game. So what does Quinn do? Runs one in in the final moments of the half to knot it up.
The difference in those "intangibles" (that have become such a bad word for some reason) for me, as a fan, is that I've watched Quinn hate to lose. I have yet to see that from Derek Anderson. I hate to lose too.
Hmmmm... apparently you didn't watch DA lead a come from behind win, including the longest run from the line of scrimmage by a Brown that year, in his first NFL game. Add to that the other last minute drives he put together in a few games his first full season, I don't think he's a quitter at any rate.
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You do understand that both of those sentences apply to Quinn's tenure at Notre Dame, right?
Brady Quinn did get a new coach.
The second sentence stands. Nearly every lineman and several receivers Brady Quinn played behind his last two years got drafted, a free agent signing, or a strong sniff from the NFL within a year of his leaving Notre Dame. Several were on team rosters last year. DA had 1 lineman and two receivers that got NFL sniffs within a year of his leaving OSU. I looked it up last year.
Nearly every lineman and several receivers Brady Quinn played behind his last two years got drafted, a free agent signing, or a strong sniff from the NFL within a year of his leaving Notre Dame. Several were on team rosters last year. DA had 1 lineman and two receivers that got NFL sniffs within a year of his leaving OSU. I looked it up last year.
And tell me - which player is still on a roster, and who is starting? Carlson the TE?
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
ND faced a dual ground threat in GT's RB (Tashard Choice) & QB not to mention some bum of a NCAA receiver Calvin Johnson. GT ran all over the Irish that game. So what does Quinn do? Runs one in in the final moments of the half to knot it up.
The difference in those "intangibles" (that have become such a bad word for some reason) for me, as a fan, is that I've watched Quinn hate to lose. I have yet to see that from Derek Anderson. I hate to lose too.
Hmmmm... apparently you didn't watch DA lead a come from behind win, including the longest run from the line of scrimmage by a Brown that year, in his first NFL game. Add to that the other last minute drives he put together in a few games his first full season, I don't think he's a quitter at any rate.
Hmmmm... apparently you didn't watch DA lead a come from behind win..... I don't think he's a quitter at any rate.
He is not quitter, but damn if he doesn't make stupid ass mistakes.
He does come from behind so infrequently, and has just as many games where he blows it, that it is very hard to give him any more chances. If we didn't have an unknown in Quinn to take a look at, we'd be waiting for the chance that the rookie we just drafted would get in.
Why is it so hard to understand that some Browns fans are fed up with his boneheaded plays game after game.
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Nearly every lineman and several receivers Brady Quinn played behind his last two years got drafted, a free agent signing, or a strong sniff from the NFL within a year of his leaving Notre Dame. Several were on team rosters last year. DA had 1 lineman and two receivers that got NFL sniffs within a year of his leaving OSU. I looked it up last year.
And tell me - which player is still on a roster, and who is starting? Carlson the TE?
And tell me - which player is still on a roster, and who is starting? Carlson the TE?
We should revisit this again once the rosters are set in the fall. I'm thinking right off the top of my head that 2-3 Brady Quinn Notre Dame linemen were on NFL rosters last year. Not may college QBs outside of QBs from USC or Ohio State can say they played behind 2 or 3 linemen who were on NFL rosters later.
At any rate, why would them being on a roster this next season matter? For a lineman to get a sniff from the NFL, he's probably was considered to be a knotch above the average college lineman. Quinn was surrounded by a bunch of 'em, DA wasn't.
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Ryan Harris starts at right tackle for Denver. He played LT at Notre Dame, but he had a pretty bad senior year (he dropped from a 1st to a 3rd round prospect as a result).
I think he's the only one of BQ's college linemen starting in the league. As I recall, a couple o-linemen graduated after Quinn's junior year. That lack of continuity on the line affected Quinn's play during his senior year.
The same thing could happen to Sam Bradford this year.
EDIT: Scratch that. John Sullivan's expected to start for the Vikings this year.
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And tell me - which player is still on a roster, and who is starting? Carlson the TE?
We should revisit this again once the rosters are set in the fall. I'm thinking right off the top of my head that 2-3 Brady Quinn Notre Dame linemen were on NFL rosters last year. Not may college QBs outside of QBs from USC or Ohio State can say they played behind 2 or 3 linemen who were on NFL rosters later.
At any rate, why would them being on a roster this next season matter? For a lineman to get a sniff from the NFL, he's probably was considered to be a knotch above the average college lineman. Quinn was surrounded by a bunch of 'em, DA wasn't.
We should revisit this again once the rosters are set in the fall. I'm thinking right off the top of my head that 2-3 Brady Quinn Notre Dame linemen were on NFL rosters last year. Not may college QBs outside of QBs from USC or Ohio State can say they played behind 2 or 3 linemen who were on NFL rosters later.
At any rate, why would them being on a roster this next season matter? For a lineman to get a sniff from the NFL, he's probably was considered to be a knotch above the average college lineman. Quinn was surrounded by a bunch of 'em, DA wasn't.
LOL, really?
During his OSU career, DA had guys like Adam Koets, Kyle DeVann and Roy Schuening on the line... they are either in the NFL now or were at some point. He also had Stephen Jackson at RB and Mike Hass at WR during his tenure there.
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And tell me - which player is still on a roster, and who is starting? Carlson the TE?
We should revisit this again once the rosters are set in the fall. I'm thinking right off the top of my head that 2-3 Brady Quinn Notre Dame linemen were on NFL rosters last year. Not may college QBs outside of QBs from USC or Ohio State can say they played behind 2 or 3 linemen who were on NFL rosters later.
At any rate, why would them being on a roster this next season matter? For a lineman to get a sniff from the NFL, he's probably was considered to be a knotch above the average college lineman. Quinn was surrounded by a bunch of 'em, DA wasn't.
Not may college QBs outside of QBs from USC or Ohio State can say they played behind 2 or 3 linemen who were on NFL rosters later.
Quinn was surrounded by a bunch of 'em, DA wasn't.
WTF? So you're telling me Ohio State and USC have about 96 NFL lineman in the NFL today?
And the last statement - a bunch of them? Who are these mysterious lineman you think provided Quinn all this time to throw? Name them. And while you're at it, name me the starting WR and RB that played with him that are tearing up the NFL.
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
@shepwrite said:
But many sportswriters have said Quinn's professionalism, work ethic, and "film rat" status are Peyton-esque.I read a lot and especially about Quinn. Many sportwriters? Really? Come on now man, Quinn and Manning in the same sentence doesn't sound like a H U G E reach? Maybe over-selling?
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We should revisit this again once the rosters are set in the fall. I'm thinking right off the top of my head that 2-3 Brady Quinn Notre Dame linemen were on NFL rosters last year. Not may college QBs outside of QBs from USC or Ohio State can say they played behind 2 or 3 linemen who were on NFL rosters later.
At any rate, why would them being on a roster this next season matter? For a lineman to get a sniff from the NFL, he's probably was considered to be a knotch above the average college lineman. Quinn was surrounded by a bunch of 'em, DA wasn't.
LOL, really?
During his OSU career, DA had guys like Adam Koets, Kyle DeVann and Roy Schuening on the line... they are either in the NFL now or were at some point. He also had Stephen Jackson at RB and Mike Hass at WR during his tenure there.
LOL, really?
During his OSU career, DA had guys like Adam Koets, Kyle DeVann and Roy Schuening on the line... they are either in the NFL now or were at some point.
not exactly.
Schuening never played with DA.
DeVan started 2 games as a freshman while DA was in school.
Anderson played Arizona 3 times and them by the scores of 38-3, 52-23, and 28-14 while he was in school. Hence AZ Clown chimes in with the Anti-DA talk on here.
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LOL, really?
During his OSU career, DA had guys like Adam Koets, Kyle DeVann and Roy Schuening on the line... they are either in the NFL now or were at some point.
not exactly.
Schuening never played with DA.
DeVan started 2 games as a freshman while DA was in school.
Anderson played Arizona 3 times and them by the scores of 38-3, 52-23, and 28-14 while he was in school. Hence AZ Clown chimes in with the Anti-DA talk on here.
not exactly.
Schuening never played with DA.
DeVan started 2 games as a freshman while DA was in school.
Anderson played Arizona 3 times and them by the scores of 38-3, 52-23, and 28-14 while he was in school. Hence AZ Clown chimes in with the Anti-DA talk on here.
Actually, I think Schuening did play with DA, but he was a true freshman. I hate to have to look up once again the juniors and seniors who later got NFL contracts or strong interest that Brady played behind, done it before.
Erickson had a habit of rarely recruiting big true offensive linemen. Most of his guys were either smaller athletic O linemen or highschool D linemen who made the switch to the O side once they got to OSU. I remember talk on the boards that Riley was amazed at the lack of depth on the line when he got here.
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not exactly.
Schuening never played with DA.
DeVan started 2 games as a freshman while DA was in school.
Anderson played Arizona 3 times and them by the scores of 38-3, 52-23, and 28-14 while he was in school. Hence AZ Clown chimes in with the Anti-DA talk on here.
Actually, I think Schuening did play with DA, but he was a true freshman. I hate to have to look up once again the juniors and seniors who later got NFL contracts or strong interest that Brady played behind, done it before.
Erickson had a habit of rarely recruiting big true offensive linemen. Most of his guys were either smaller athletic O linemen or highschool D linemen who made the switch to the O side once they got to OSU. I remember talk on the boards that Riley was amazed at the lack of depth on the line when he got here.
Actually, I think Schuening did play with DA, but he was a true freshman.
Schuening redshirted that year. They weren't ever in a game together.
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not exactly.
Schuening never played with DA.
DeVan started 2 games as a freshman while DA was in school.
Anderson played Arizona 3 times and them by the scores of 38-3, 52-23, and 28-14 while he was in school. Hence AZ Clown chimes in with the Anti-DA talk on here.
Actually, I think Schuening did play with DA, but he was a true freshman. I hate to have to look up once again the juniors and seniors who later got NFL contracts or strong interest that Brady played behind, done it before.
Erickson had a habit of rarely recruiting big true offensive linemen. Most of his guys were either smaller athletic O linemen or highschool D linemen who made the switch to the O side once they got to OSU. I remember talk on the boards that Riley was amazed at the lack of depth on the line when he got here.
I hate to have to look up once again the juniors and seniors who later got NFL contracts or strong interest that Brady played behind, done it before.
Quinn played with all these guys. He also played with guys like Ryan Grant of the Packers who wasn't drafted and also Jeff "the man responsible for Brady Quinn's career" Samardzija
2008 2 38 SEA John Carlson TE
2008 2 47 PHI Trevor Laws DT
2008 3 86 BAL Tom Zbikowski DB
2008 6 187 MIN John Sullivan C
2007 2 57 PHI Victor Abiamiri DE
2007 3 70 DEN Ryan Harris T
2007 5 166 JAX Derek Landri DT
2007 6 202 NWE Mike Richardson DB
2007 7 230 CIN Dan Santucci G
2007 7 253 CIN Nedu Ndukwe DB
2006 2 53 DAL Anthony Fasano TE
2006 3 90 TAM Maurice Stovall WR
2006 6 205 NWE Dan Stevenson G
2005 3 74 NYG Justin Tuck DE
2005 5 144 STL Jerome Collins TE
2004 2 43 DAL Julius Jones RB
2004 2 60 NOR Courtney Watson LB
2004 4 122 HOU Glenn Earl DB
2004 6 170 HOU Vontez Duff DB
2004 6 180 WAS Jim Molinaro T
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