Who is your choice?
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It's Tom Brady...
As the most successful Michigan QB ever? Yes he has done well in the recent era.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
It was always Joe Montana with me until the 2017 Superbowl when Tom Brady led the second half 25 point comeback win against the Falcons. That sealed it with me for Brady.
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It's Tom Brady...
As the most successful Michigan QB ever? Yes he has done well in the recent era.
As the most successful Michigan QB ever? Yes he has done well in the recent era.
"Well"??????
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
"Well"??????
I think one point that may be made is that "if" Luckman, Starr, Graham, Unitas played in an era where there were as many postseason games being played as there are now...they too may have accumulated maybe close as many post season victories as TB has.
Three of those four had better title game records than TB, and they all had better or equal overall postseason game winning percentages as TB.
So, that may be the "well". TB certainly has more longevity than the others...which counts. (then the question could be asked: would he have had the same longevity if he played in the 40s/50s/60s/70s....or would those other guys have had much longer careers had they played today? These are kind of unanswerable questions....but it is fair to ask them.
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I think an argument could easily be made that no "dynasty" QB has had less talent on offense around him as Tom Brady.
The Patriots aren't likable, but what they've done is wicked impressive. We may never see anything like this again, or for a long time.
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With the passing of Bart Starr, some reflections on who may in fact be the GOAT among QBs....at least in terms of winning. Some statistics:
Otto Graham: Appeared in 10 title games in 10 years in which his record was 7-3. Overall postseason record of 10-3. .769 win pct.
Bart Starr. Appeared in 6 title games in 8 years in which his record was 5-1. Overall postseason record of 9-1. .900 win pct.
Sid Luckman. Appeared in 5 title games in 7 years in which his record was 4-1. overall postseason record of 5-1 .833 win pct.
Tom Brady. Appeared in 9 title games in 18 years in which his record is 6-3. Overall postseason record of 30-10. .750 win pct.
Joe Montana . Appeared in 4 title games in 9 years in which he was 4-0. Overall postseason record of 16-7. .696 win pct.
Terry Bradshaw. Appeared in 4 title games in 6 years in which he was 4-0. Overall postseason record of 14-5 . .737 win pct.
Troy Aikman. Appeared in 3 title games in 4 years in which he was 3-0. Overall postseason record of 11-4. .733 win pct.
John Unitas. Appeared in 5 title games in 5 title games in 13 years in which he was 3-2. Overall postseason record of 6-2. .750 win pct.
The above are the ONLY QBs in history to have won 3 or more championship games as a starting QB. The following names are those who have won 2 or more together with their overall postseason won-loss record
Len Dawson 5-3 .625 win pct.
Ed Danowski 2-2
Arnie Herber 2-2
Sammy Baugh 3-3
Tommy Thompson 3-1
Bobby Layne 3-1
Tobin Rote 3-1
George Blanda 2-1
Jack Kemp 2-4
Roger Staubach 11-6 .647 win pct.
Bob Griese 6-5 .545 win pct.
Jim Plunkett, 8-2 .800 win pct.
John Elway 14-7 .667 win pct.
Ben Roethlisberger 13-8 .619 win pct.
Peyton Manning 14-13 .519 win pct.
Eli Manning. 8-4 .667 win pct.
FYI...on these lists, the only QBs who are eligible who are not HOF are Plunkett, Kemp, Rote, Thompson. Brady, BR, Peyton, Eli still not eligible (only Peyton retired)
Give your impression on some of the ordering of this list.
With the passing of Bart Starr, some reflections on who may in fact be the GOAT among QBs....at least in terms of winning. Some statistics:
Otto Graham: Appeared in 10 title games in 10 years in which his record was 7-3. Overall postseason record of 10-3. .769 win pct.
Is there any other QB that competed in the Championship Game every year they played (in this case all 10 years)? I think some people look at comp % and assume the Browns carried a Trent Dilfer to all 10 Championship Games. With all the praise and overrating Joe Namath got for his ONLY Championship - multiply that by 10 appearances/7 Titles and remind me why NFL history needs to pedestal his greatness more than Otto's? Graham and his coach was the birth place of the WCO the Joe Montanas, Steve Youngs, Brett Favres, and Patrick Mahomes would later try to emulate and advance. That said, after Montana - how many of those QBs won more than 1 SB despite all those stats? Before we had airports all over the country/world and an air force that could win us wars - wasn't Kitty Hawk pretty important?
Putting this in perspective, as great as Jim Brown was - Cleveland only won 1 Championship because of him. I also think it was way more than a coincidence, the frequency of participation in Championship Games for the Browns decreased dramatically when Otto's 10 year career ended.
When we do this kind of comparison, you have to take into consideration rules weren't being changed to promote more passing and protection of passers. Today, I think of Brady and BB like I think of Otto and Paul Brown. Coincidentally, Brady grew up a 49ers fan watching Bill Walsh orchestrate Paul Brown's offensive concepts through Joe Montana.
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Dr Frank may have only won one, but cleaning Johnny Unitas’ clock in 64 put me on the bus
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Dr Frank may have only won one, but cleaning Johnny Unitas’ clock in 64 put me on the bus
Dr Frank may have only won one, but cleaning Johnny Unitas’ clock in 64 put me on the bus
He also got them to the Champioship game the next year...but lost to the Packers....who went on to win 3 tltles in a row. (and that was the last time that has happened, plus it only happened once before...the Packers also from 1929/30/31 I believe.).
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"Well"??????
OK?
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I think an argument could easily be made that no "dynasty" QB has had less talent on offense around him as Tom Brady.
The Patriots aren't likable, but what they've done is wicked impressive. We may never see anything like this again, or for a long time.
I think an argument could easily be made that no "dynasty" QB has had less talent on offense around him as Tom Brady.
The Patriots aren't likable, but what they've done is wicked impressive. We may never see anything like this again, or for a long time.
Teammates, coaches and even things like rule changes where you cannot hit the QBs and even WRs so they can rack up big numbers and hang around longer.
Near 40 year old quarterbacks at one time used to be harder to do.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Back when people were figuring out what a forward pass was and blacks weren't allowed
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Back when people were figuring out what a forward pass was and blacks weren't allowed
You mean like Warren Moon who played until he was 44? Oh yea. He was black. George Blanda played until he was 48.
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I think an argument could easily be made that no "dynasty" QB has had less talent on offense around him as Tom Brady.
The Patriots aren't likable, but what they've done is wicked impressive. We may never see anything like this again, or for a long time.
Teammates, coaches and even things like rule changes where you cannot hit the QBs and even WRs so they can rack up big numbers and hang around longer.
Near 40 year old quarterbacks at one time used to be harder to do.
Teammates, coaches and even things like rule changes where you cannot hit the QBs and even WRs so they can rack up big numbers and hang around longer.
Near 40 year old quarterbacks at one time used to be harder to do.
Definitely easier to pass now than it probably ever has been... plus players are in much better shape because of advanced knowledge on fitness, strength, diet, etc...
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Dr Frank may have only won one, but cleaning Johnny Unitas’ clock in 64 put me on the bus
He also got them to the Champioship game the next year...but lost to the Packers....who went on to win 3 tltles in a row. (and that was the last time that has happened, plus it only happened once before...the Packers also from 1929/30/31 I believe.).
He also got them to the Champioship game the next year...but lost to the Packers....who went on to win 3 tltles in a row. (and that was the last time that has happened, plus it only happened once before...the Packers also from 1929/30/31 I believe.).
Ever wonder what Frank and Bill May have been like if arthroscopic surgery was available in their day?
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