***Jets VS Browns Gameday Thread***
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No panic mode, but I see early trends and tendencies that I don't like and foreshadow potential serious problems in the very near future. Right now I'm praying Baker isn't so arrogant to look in the mirror and ask why he feels the need to press and force himself so much.
In the same mold, I'm hoping Freddie isn't so timid that he feels reluctant to pull Baker aside for a talk and ask what's going through his head.
Our offensive coaching staff as a collective should not feel good about yesterday. Cleaned up some* penalties, i guess that's a start. I'm not willing to write off Baker and neither should you. After next week he will have a full 16 games, thus a full year under his belt. So he is essentially getting that sophomore slump treatment out early.
But when we're missing our most consistent connection with our QB (Higgy) then we need to start hammering that 21 personnel and let ODB + Landry work the perimeter with 1 on 1's. As it stands, I'm still convinced our best strategy is to go under center early with single back sets, work that IZ Chubb loves and build off that with play action and tempo. This will keep us ahead of the chains, get Baker into the early rhythm which appears to be absolutely critical to his success AND gives us a shot at opening drive(s) points. The last thing you want is this team playing from behind. Skill position wise, we can do that. But the QB situation and Oline can not handle that (at the moment)
Again, run this offense through Chubb, Earnest and Hilliard. Just this time last year, Dallas fans wrote off Dak. Now he is the point guard for a pretty damn good looking group that begins with Zeke. Our coaches would be wise to emulate that.
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Tried to sign up for the new Tavern........... makes me wish we had the old shitty one instead. Guess I'll artificially up my post count on this thread so I really look like I know what I'm talking about.
Tried to sign up for the new Tavern........... makes me wish we had the old shitty one instead. Guess I'll artificially up my post count on this thread so I really look like I know what I'm talking about.
I finally got it. What a pain.
I did urge everyone to register and check it out EARLY...
Some people are simply uncoachable...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'll take a relatively ugly win over an artistic loss anytime. Baker was distinctly "off". Wonder if the wrist is bothering him more than he's letting on.... And Williams more than any D- coordinator in the NFL knew exactly how to mess with Baker.
Listen, we won and that's ALL we needed. I said before the game that all the media pundits saying we needed to win pretty were totally wrong because winning in the NFL is just so hard. That being said, we've got problems and here's why:
Baker isn't getting the ball out on time and to the open guy. In fact, it looks like he regressed into the same exact guy he was under Hue and Haley. Holding the ball, taking sacks, and missing high. Baker is NOT comfortable, and this is a bigger problem than people are saying.
Is it time to panic? Hell no, but it's definitely time to sack-up and take a long look in the mirror because our offense is hot garbage right now. We didn't do SHIT except have the best receiver in the game, that's it. We couldn't run the ball, we couldn't hit short passes consistently, and we had absolutely no rhythm. What's even more concerning is that Baker does NOT want to throw over the middle, and that's crushing us. He had people open multiple times over the middle throughout the game, but he didn't cut it loose.
How do we fix this? I dunno, I'm not that smart. All I know is we gots to fix some crap right the heck now because our next 5 oppenents are somehow effing 10-0. Also, I'm even MORE concerned about Baker's tendency to take unnecessary risks. He did it before halftime by throwing into double coverage (something he did several times last year) and he forced the ball to OBJ on his pick when he had Chubb WIDE OPEN in the flat for 10 yards! How does he miss that?
Listen, I'm ECSTATIC we won, but I also miss the offense I saw last year. We don't get to play the Jets' offense every week, so we're going to need more 3rd downs and less FG's. It's early, but it's getting late quickly.
Baker isn't getting the ball out on time and to the open guy. In fact, it looks like he regressed into the same exact guy he was under Hue and Haley. Holding the ball, taking sacks, and missing high. Baker is NOT comfortable, and this is a bigger problem than people are saying.
This is a GREAT observation. Had not been able to put my finger on it. Last season at his best Baker played loose. Good call.
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speakin of Freddie - I noticed that far too many runs were on first down. The defense seemed to know it.
and Kitchens kept doing it.
Now, it could be that they were setting the defense up for play action or something, I don't know...
But I'm more liking Kosar's idea of the first down of the game, you haul off and throw a bomb to keep them honest. Why simply run on most first downs ? I think that needs to change. Seems to me, the continual running on first down sets your offense up for 3rd and long after gaining after an incomplete pass on second down, or short gain... and the defense will blitz you.
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Game Summary: We were underwhelming victors over a significantly diminished team... but...
... there were some things to build upon. Namely:
- hustling D...
- "better" discipline... especially on Offense and STs... and in our 2ndary...
- Chubb...
- the threat that is OBJ realized...
- A FG kicker... and a Punter...
Concerns remain however...
- Baker's inconsistency... more on this below...
- Njoku's brain... face it... he's our only TE "threat"... our only athlete at the position...
- Higgins' knee... going to need him as the #3 next week...
- Roughing the passer... just give him a big hug, twist and make him fall on you, Myles...
On Baker...
The good news is that when he cut the ball loose, he was by and large on target. Examples abound including the deep ball to OBJ's one-hander and, although it was a tad behind him, the quick slant to BJ that put the game away.
The bad news was that many other throws were aimed, not "cut loose", and nearly every one was off target... most often high. Not sure if this is Baker being "cautious" or if he's unsure of want he sees... or the weight of team expectations getting to him, but.... it's gotta stop.
We need the Baker of 2018... the QB that lead a team with no hope of playoff contention with abandon.
Easier to say than to do, but he he doesn't loosen/lighten up, then we aren't going anywhere.
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Baker isn't getting the ball out on time and to the open guy. In fact, it looks like he regressed into the same exact guy he was under Hue and Haley. Holding the ball, taking sacks, and missing high. Baker is NOT comfortable, and this is a bigger problem than people are saying.
This is a GREAT observation. Had not been able to put my finger on it. Last season at his best Baker played loose. Good call.
This is a GREAT observation. Had not been able to put my finger on it. Last season at his best Baker played loose. Good call.
Baker hasn't regressed, the defenses and game planning have advanced. And the oline isn't the same at center. Didn't Baker play in an air raid type offense in college? He looks for the longer throws, and then if he chooses (throwing into double coverage is fixable...) he can check down/throw for a shorter gain. Baker is brilliant - he'll learn quickly. Of course, Williams knows him and tried to mess with him with aggressive defense. How about that play that gave Williams a week of indigestion - the pass to OBJ who took it for a TD?
Williams will be one hateful dude all this next week. Baker and OBJ made him pay dearly.
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Baker isn't getting the ball out on time and to the open guy. In fact, it looks like he regressed into the same exact guy he was under Hue and Haley. Holding the ball, taking sacks, and missing high. Baker is NOT comfortable, and this is a bigger problem than people are saying.
This is a GREAT observation. Had not been able to put my finger on it. Last season at his best Baker played loose. Good call.
This is a GREAT observation. Had not been able to put my finger on it. Last season at his best Baker played loose. Good call.
Bingo...
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Game Summary: We were underwhelming victors over a significantly diminished team... but...
... there were some things to build upon. Namely:
- hustling D...
- "better" discipline... especially on Offense and STs... and in our 2ndary...
- Chubb...
- the threat that is OBJ realized...
- A FG kicker... and a Punter...
Concerns remain however...
- Baker's inconsistency... more on this below...
- Njoku's brain... face it... he's our only TE "threat"... our only athlete at the position...
- Higgins' knee... going to need him as the #3 next week...
- Roughing the passer... just give him a big hug, twist and make him fall on you, Myles...
On Baker...
The good news is that when he cut the ball loose, he was by and large on target. Examples abound including the deep ball to OBJ's one-hander and, although it was a tad behind him, the quick slant to BJ that put the game away.
The bad news was that many other throws were aimed, not "cut loose", and nearly every one was off target... most often high. Not sure if this is Baker being "cautious" or if he's unsure of want he sees... or the weight of team expectations getting to him, but.... it's gotta stop.
We need the Baker of 2018... the QB that lead a team with no hope of playoff contention with abandon.
Easier to say than to do, but he he doesn't loosen/lighten up, then we aren't going anywhere.
We need the Baker of 2018... the QB that lead a team with no hope of playoff contention with abandon.
Easier to say than to do, but he he doesn't loosen/lighten up, then we aren't going anywhere.
True, but I think Baker is playing different because he knows there are more limitations with his offensive line. Every qb that gets big pressure has it usually affect his play. I think Kitchens needs to call more short throws and Baker needs to not force the big long gains that he's used to.
Depends on the defense they face, I suppose. Williams' defense is pretty good and stopping the rush....?
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Tried to sign up for the new Tavern........... makes me wish we had the old shitty one instead. Guess I'll artificially up my post count on this thread so I really look like I know what I'm talking about.
I finally got it. What a pain.
I did urge everyone to register and check it out EARLY...
Some people are simply uncoachable...
I did urge everyone to register and check it out EARLY...
Some people are simply uncoachable...
I was busy coaching some players half my age and less on the finer points of racquetball for about 3 1/2 hours up until about an hour before gametime. Had to refuel first before eventually finding my way on. That salty small bag of popcorn you recommended at halftime hit the spot on recharging the salt water levels.??
️
EDIT: Oh yeah and some Venezuelan chocolate from El Rey Chocolates in Stonewall, Texas. They sell only Venezuelan chocolate there. But it's right in the heart of the wine district along the Pedernales River.
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This is a GREAT observation. Had not been able to put my finger on it. Last season at his best Baker played loose. Good call.
Baker hasn't regressed, the defenses and game planning have advanced. And the oline isn't the same at center. Didn't Baker play in an air raid type offense in college? He looks for the longer throws, and then if he chooses (throwing into double coverage is fixable...) he can check down/throw for a shorter gain. Baker is brilliant - he'll learn quickly. Of course, Williams knows him and tried to mess with him with aggressive defense. How about that play that gave Williams a week of indigestion - the pass to OBJ who took it for a TD?
Williams will be one hateful dude all this next week. Baker and OBJ made him pay dearly.
Baker hasn't regressed, the defenses and game planning have advanced. And the oline isn't the same at center.
He has regressed... in his effectiveness... as I see it as well because is playing "tighter".
And Tretter was the Center last season... started all 16 games. Only OL change is Zeitler's missing at RG.
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Or a stud corner/safety came on to the market that they scouted heavily who is in his second year with plenty of years left. The steeler defense is immediately better.
While this is true....he was, perhaps is, considered a stud; and he does make that defensive backfield better imo. They were bad, but now they are better. Still does not help with the QB situation....which remains to be seen....and only helps a bit with the talent deficit now from prior years.
And what is the status of the Conner injury?
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Baker hasn't regressed, the defenses and game planning have advanced. And the oline isn't the same at center.
He has regressed... in his effectiveness... as I see it as well because is playing "tighter".
And Tretter was the Center last season... started all 16 games. Only OL change is Zeitler's missing at RG.
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Baker seemed hesitant and indecisive at times, especially when he tried rolling out. There were constantly issues with getting the play in on time and getting the play off before the clock struck -0-. It greatly disallowed him from reading the defenses properly. Why is this? Freddie being indecisive in his play calling?
IMO being both HC and OC doesn't work....we have seen it fail here before, most recently with Hue. Maybe it will just take Freddie time since he has only 2 games under his belt......but the upcoming schedule does not give him time.
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We need the Baker of 2018... the QB that lead a team with no hope of playoff contention with abandon.
Easier to say than to do, but he he doesn't loosen/lighten up, then we aren't going anywhere.
True, but I think Baker is playing different because he knows there are more limitations with his offensive line. Every qb that gets big pressure has it usually affect his play. I think Kitchens needs to call more short throws and Baker needs to not force the big long gains that he's used to.
Depends on the defense they face, I suppose. Williams' defense is pretty good and stopping the rush....?
True, but I think Baker is playing different because he knows there are more limitations with his offensive line. Every qb that gets big pressure has it usually affect his play. I think Kitchens needs to call more short throws and Baker needs to not force the big long gains that he's used to.
Depends on the defense they face, I suppose. Williams' defense is pretty good and stopping the rush....?
I think your cause and effect are disjointed...
Last season Baker was great at getting the ball out quickly with only the occasional deep shot... I really don't see a major difference in the playcalling this season so far excepting fewer snaps under Center which is the key to an effective PAP attack.
Plus so far our rushing attack has been good... certainly was in Game 2. Game 1? Not that much less so, but we were playing behind the sticks so much due to penalties that we couldn't go to it as much.
Otherwise what is different is that Baker is not getting the ball out quickly???
- Could be better coverage, but Given the upgrade of our WR crew, I doubt it.
- Could be rust... but rust more explains "bad" than inconsistent...
- Is he not reading the D as effectively? Maybe, but again, I doubt it.
- Is he turning down windows he threw into last year? I think so... and the only reason he would is that he's gotten "cautious"...
That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it....
Freddie!!! More snaps under Center, PLEASE... Set up that PAP game!
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I did urge everyone to register and check it out EARLY...
Some people are simply uncoachable...
I was busy coaching some players half my age and less on the finer points of racquetball for about 3 1/2 hours up until about an hour before gametime. Had to refuel first before eventually finding my way on. That salty small bag of popcorn you recommended at halftime hit the spot on recharging the salt water levels.??
️
EDIT: Oh yeah and some Venezuelan chocolate from El Rey Chocolates in Stonewall, Texas. They sell only Venezuelan chocolate there. But it's right in the heart of the wine district along the Pedernales River.
@tour2ma said:
I urge all that plan to enter The Browns Board Tavern (TBBT) to do so well in advance of kickoff. This will include registering (free) and verifying your email addy, a requirement I have been able to set.
I was busy coaching some players half my age and less on the finer points of racquetball for about 3 1/2 hours up until about an hour before gametime. ??
️
Peddle it somewhere else, Gramps...
I "urged" last Thursday! ?
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@tour2ma said:
I urge all that plan to enter The Browns Board Tavern (TBBT) to do so well in advance of kickoff. This will include registering (free) and verifying your email addy, a requirement I have been able to set.
I was busy coaching some players half my age and less on the finer points of racquetball for about 3 1/2 hours up until about an hour before gametime. ??
️
Peddle it somewhere else, Gramps...
I "urged" last Thursday! ?
Peddle it somewhere else, Gramps...
I "urged" last Thursday! ?
I don't recall that-Gramps Ag?
BTW my grandkids gave me a T-shirt that reads:
GRAMPS.
THE MAN.
THE MYTH.
THE LEGEND.
?
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True, but I think Baker is playing different because he knows there are more limitations with his offensive line. Every qb that gets big pressure has it usually affect his play. I think Kitchens needs to call more short throws and Baker needs to not force the big long gains that he's used to.
Depends on the defense they face, I suppose. Williams' defense is pretty good and stopping the rush....?
I think your cause and effect are disjointed...
Last season Baker was great at getting the ball out quickly with only the occasional deep shot... I really don't see a major difference in the playcalling this season so far excepting fewer snaps under Center which is the key to an effective PAP attack.
Plus so far our rushing attack has been good... certainly was in Game 2. Game 1? Not that much less so, but we were playing behind the sticks so much due to penalties that we couldn't go to it as much.
Otherwise what is different is that Baker is not getting the ball out quickly???
- Could be better coverage, but Given the upgrade of our WR crew, I doubt it.
- Could be rust... but rust more explains "bad" than inconsistent...
- Is he not reading the D as effectively? Maybe, but again, I doubt it.
- Is he turning down windows he threw into last year? I think so... and the only reason he would is that he's gotten "cautious"...
That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it....
Freddie!!! More snaps under Center, PLEASE... Set up that PAP game!
I think your cause and effect are disjointed...
Last season Baker was great at getting the ball out quickly with only the occasional deep shot... I really don't see a major difference in the playcalling this season so far excepting fewer snaps under Center which is the key to an effective PAP attack.
Plus so far our rushing attack has been good... certainly was in Game 2. Game 1? Not that much less so, but we were playing behind the sticks so much due to penalties that we couldn't go to it as much.
Otherwise what is different is that Baker is not getting the ball out quickly???
- Could be better coverage, but Given the upgrade of our WR crew, I doubt it.
- Could be rust... but rust more explains "bad" than inconsistent...
- Is he not reading the D as effectively? Maybe, but again, I doubt it.
- Is he turning down windows he threw into last year? I think so... and the only reason he would is that he's gotten "cautious"...
That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it....
Freddie!!! More snaps under Center, PLEASE... Set up that PAP game!
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I saw the same as Tour did. I cannot tell if the playcalling was that different (I'm not an expert) but the sense for me was that Baker didn't want to force the ball.
I'm OK with it for a few reasons: 1. There are games like last night in which the only thing that the offense is required to do is scoring some points and not making mistakes. I'd take a boring win before a rollercoaster of losses and wins all season through.
2. I'd rather see Baker being "overcautious" some games in order to learn when to take risks than him not changing one bit. Jameis Winston comes to mind. He ALWAYS takes risks and I haven't seen a calm game by him ever. Smart people learn to tune their instincts and change their habbits. Probaboy Baker was a bit overcautious and not "loose" but him being able to changing his playstyle a bit shows me that he is able to change and progress. In any case, you always can count on him "loosening up" in some laser throws every once in a while, as we saw yesterday.
I have always been afraid of Baker turning into an INT machine due to his aggresiveness, so watching him being calm yesterday is not that bad for me.
EDIT: I don't expect him to end up becoming a cerebral Tom Brady, but I don't want a Favre either.
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I don't recall that-Gramps Ag?
BTW my grandkids gave me a T-shirt that reads:
GRAMPS.
THE MAN.
THE MYTH.
THE LEGEND.
ALL IN HIS OWN MIND
?
fify
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