QB's: Where does prior NFL film factor in?
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It doesn't take a rocket scientist film watcher to see DA screwing up.
And it didn't take long for DA to take control of the QB battle.
Kinda the opposite of what BQ Nation said was gonna happen in TC, isn't it?
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And it didn't take long for DA to take control of the QB battle.
Kinda the opposite of what BQ Nation said was gonna happen in TC, isn't it?
Lums you must have really sucked at football. What you judge as good play and what I do are not even on the same planet. Something about throwing balls inaccurately and me don't jive, but I can't begrudge you for not knowing football and being in love.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
@inspecta said:
And you had a golden opportunity to get rid of me forever and not have to worry about me constantly giving you the red ass if you had only taken that bet.So for your sake, it's a good thing I'm not a gambler.
You woulda had to sign up for a whole new screen name. Oh the humanity.
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Films matter only if the coordinators refuse to change the offensive tactics out of confidence/ lack of ideas and if a problem associated with a player keeps returning frequently.
If Quinn and the OC can keep the opponent guessing then well and good but if Quinn is going to show a repetitive flaw than is exposed and can be exploited then it is a only a matter of time before the Quinn witchhunt will begin. It really is t he same with many QB's.
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And it didn't take long for DA to take control of the QB battle.
Kinda the opposite of what BQ Nation said was gonna happen in TC, isn't it?
Lums you must have really sucked at football. What you judge as good play and what I do are not even on the same planet. Something about throwing balls inaccurately and me don't jive, but I can't begrudge you for not knowing football and being in love.
What you judge as good play and what I do are not even on the same planet.
Yeah I'm more in line with NFL talent evaluators/coaching staffs.
You and Flugs base your evaluations on whether you can daydream about if a guy reminds you of Kosar or not.
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For Anderson, since there is a ton of footage, we can get a better understanding of how he plays, and what makes him tick and how inconsistent he can be at times.
For Quinn, since there is a little footage, we really can't get a grasp on how he plays, and based on his healthy start in Denver, he shows poise and tremendous leadership, and how good he scrambles or runs at times. But other than those three things, we can't really judge how accurate he is until we actually watch him in a game. I guess we'll find out about next week.
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For Anderson, since there is a ton of footage, we can get a better understanding of how he plays, and what makes him tick and how inconsistent he can be at times.
For Quinn, since there is a little footage, we really can't get a grasp on how he plays, and based on his healthy start in Denver, he shows poise and tremendous leadership, and how good he scrambles or runs at times. But other than those three things, we can't really judge how accurate he is until we actually watch him in a game. I guess we'll find out about next week.
For Quinn, since there is a little footage, we really can't get a grasp on how he plays, and based on his healthy start in Denver, he shows poise and tremendous leadership, and how good he scrambles or runs at times. But other than those three things, we can't really judge how accurate he is until we actually watch him in a game. I guess we'll find out about next week.
Quinn vs Denver. 1 rush for 3.0 yards.
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For Quinn, since there is a little footage, we really can't get a grasp on how he plays, and based on his healthy start in Denver, he shows poise and tremendous leadership, and how good he scrambles or runs at times. But other than those three things, we can't really judge how accurate he is until we actually watch him in a game. I guess we'll find out about next week.
Quinn vs Denver. 1 rush for 3.0 yards.
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My first time this season starting a QB thread, so move along if you aren't interested.
My question relates to the competition and how/where film study of the two QB's comes into play. Obviously, there is more film on DA than Quinn at this point.
The reason I ask is because I witnessed DA's practice with my own eyes last year in Berea. The guy flat out looks like a world beater. Its hard to imagine the guy you see in Berea doing some of the things we've seen in the few years in live games. Doesn't seem to be the same guy.
So, where does this factor into the competition? Mangini's supposed to have said both guys are "even". So, he's simply going to see how the two practice and play in a handful of meaningless preseason games to pick a starter?
I must not understand what can be gleaned from practices.
My first time this season starting a QB thread, so move along if you aren't interested.
My question relates to the competition and how/where film study of the two QB's comes into play. Obviously, there is more film on DA than Quinn at this point.
The reason I ask is because I witnessed DA's practice with my own eyes last year in Berea. The guy flat out looks like a world beater. Its hard to imagine the guy you see in Berea doing some of the things we've seen in the few years in live games. Doesn't seem to be the same guy.
So, where does this factor into the competition? Mangini's supposed to have said both guys are "even". So, he's simply going to see how the two practice and play in a handful of meaningless preseason games to pick a starter?
I must not understand what can be gleaned from practices.
Here is my take on this. Yes it is a factor and as a coach I would use this as part of practice. Here would be my plan as coach....(later in camp (full contact game simulation) what I am going to do as coach is.. For DA.. I am going to put in the defenses that he (DA) struggled the most with and force him to deal with this. Not only use this as a tool for him to learn, but to see how he has progressed as a QB.... Same with Quinn... put in the defense he struggled with and make him try to beat it...
What we do not know is how the new offensive system fits in all of this. I was a big proponent of blaming the former OC for his inflexibility in the game plan that did not put DA and BQ in the best situations to win. He failed to make adjustments and just blindly went forward with what worked "last week"
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Here we go again, selective information from Lumnuts.
I see you don't want to deal with the 21TD and 20 turnovers problem DA seems to have every season. It's okay though - he seems to shine in August.
As I was saying previously, throw in rushing TDs and those numbers are 46 TDs and 40 total turnovers (picks+fumbles). Yes that is true.
Are those numbers bad? It's a 1.15 TD to turnover ratio.
You apparently think that is terrible.
Keep in mind that of the Browns first 5 opponents, only one of them has a QB with a better ratio than Anderson's 1.15, (Carson Palmer 1.38)
Oh and Anderson's ratio is better than Brady Quinn's ratio.
Nice argument though. Thanks for bringing it up.
As I was saying previously, throw in rushing TDs and those numbers are 46 TDs and 40 total turnovers (picks+fumbles). Yes that is true.
Oh and Anderson's ratio is better than Brady Quinn's ratio.
OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
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As I was saying previously, throw in rushing TDs and those numbers are 46 TDs and 40 total turnovers (picks+fumbles). Yes that is true.
Oh and Anderson's ratio is better than Brady Quinn's ratio.
OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
First and foremost, Anderson's "terrible" completion percentage. Then Quinn comes out and posts 49.5%.
This is just another one of those.
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Other than practices and preseason games what else can be used? What happened under previous coaches doesn't matter that much, the current coaches don't even know the plays that were called in certain situations.
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OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
First and foremost, Anderson's "terrible" completion percentage. Then Quinn comes out and posts 49.5%.
This is just another one of those.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
Quinn has 3 starts. Three!!
Why don't we look at DA's first 3 starts:
He threw for 207 yd per game, for a 6.3 yd per pass avg.
The kicker? 1 TD per start, and 2.6 turnovers per game. So he had a grand total of 3TD's and 7 INT's, with a fumble lost for 8 turnovers total in 3 starts.
Still want to play Quinn's first 3 vs. DA's first 3????
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OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
First and foremost, Anderson's "terrible" completion percentage. Then Quinn comes out and posts 49.5%.
This is just another one of those.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
It doesn't lock down the starting position in the NFL, that's the point. It isn't good, dude.
When you have a 3rd year player that owns every passing record @ ND - a school that had 2 Superbowl winning QB's in its history (Theisman and Montana) and your starter is 23-20 TD/INT per season, that isn't locking down the position, and in fact you'd be foolish not to try and improve that position.
What those stats mean is you're boy has never been good enough to keep the heat off his back.
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OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
First and foremost, Anderson's "terrible" completion percentage. Then Quinn comes out and posts 49.5%.
This is just another one of those.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes,
I harp on his mistakes because you unrealistically will not. And also, I find it odd that when I do, you deflect the criticism by bringing up Quinn. You cannot admit his mistakes or inconsistencies or his mediocre play in the face of facts, so you bring up Quinn - who has a grand total of 3 starts.
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good lord Lum dont turn this into one qb vs another post, I dont think that was what Greythan was intending.
Grey I think it has to be a very important tool in assessing a player. I know that DA has a ton more film so Mangini should be able to glean more information about him than BQ.
Tendancies, strengths, weaknesses, progression, etc all can be gleaned from film. I think in some ways this actually plays toward BQ more because of the lack of data on him. Mangini is going to have to make more of a less informed projection on him and give him the benefit of learning from game time scenarios.
My guess still is that BQ is going to start unless he really sucks in preseason and camps because of the very question you asked. I think in order to really examine BQ he needs to get to play in real games.
I still think DA is a better NFL qb and that he was hampered by poor offensive coaching/injuries/other players (his own weaknesses also) etc. At this point however unless BQ really sucks in preseason and camps I would like to see him start a minimum of 8 games. Than we all can get to see what that draft pick was all about.
Some part of me does not want him to start at all in case he does suck, he is still worth another low 1st round or second round draft pick in a trade. If he plays and he is mediocre/average than his value plummets. My curiousity at this point wins out and I want him to start for no other purpose than to see what value he has.
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OMG you're pathetic. So his numbers are now an avg of 23TD and 20 turnovers in 2 seasons. I am not asking for perfection, what I am asking for is if you're going to post these one liners - lookie lookie he has 43 TD - then show his mistakes as well.
You're asking me if I think that is terrible? No, but you're manipulation of his stats is childish, obvious and a discredit to your argument.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
First and foremost, Anderson's "terrible" completion percentage. Then Quinn comes out and posts 49.5%.
This is just another one of those.
and if you're going to harp on mistakes, then try and show that a 23-20 ratio is actually bad.
I've seen a lot of supposedly "bad" things about Anderson have to get taken off the table when it's discovered that few people actually do better, and Quinn can't do it either.
First and foremost, Anderson's "terrible" completion percentage. Then Quinn comes out and posts 49.5%.
This is just another one of those.
Lums.. How exactly are you spinning that 23 td's to 20 interceptions is GOOD?... It sounds like that is what you are saying..... IS IT???. If so, convince me HOW that is good..... here are the stats of the top 5 QB's from last year.. td to int's is HUGELY in favor of the td's. every guy who made the playoffs had more than 2x the td's to int's.. So tell me how 23-20 is good?
1 Drew Brees 34 17 made playoffs
2 Kurt Warner 30 14 made playoffs
3 Jay Cutler DEN 25 18 ...did not make playoffs.. most comparable to DA's 23-20
4 Aaron Rodgers 28 13 made playoffs
5 Philip Rivers 34 11 made playoffs
Lums.. i am not trying to single you out here so much as I want you to actually suport your point.. Cuz I am not gettin it...I doubt I'm alone here.
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My first time this season starting a QB thread, so move along if you aren't interested.
My question relates to the competition and how/where film study of the two QB's comes into play. Obviously, there is more film on DA than Quinn at this point.
The reason I ask is because I witnessed DA's practice with my own eyes last year in Berea. The guy flat out looks like a world beater. Its hard to imagine the guy you see in Berea doing some of the things we've seen in the few years in live games. Doesn't seem to be the same guy.
So, where does this factor into the competition? Mangini's supposed to have said both guys are "even". So, he's simply going to see how the two practice and play in a handful of meaningless preseason games to pick a starter?
I must not understand what can be gleaned from practices.
Weren't you the guy who said teams had film on DA and figured him after his SECOND NFL start? It might have been Flugel. Somebody here kept singing that song all summer long in '07, then shut up for about 4-5 games once the season started. If that was you, guess what, Quinn's had 2 NFL starts too now. Everyone knows his act.
Personally, I think coaches and their schemes get a heck of a lot more attention by the defensive coordinators than individual QB tendencies.
Weren't you the guy who said teams had film on DA and figured him after his SECOND NFL start? It might have been Flugel. Somebody here kept singing that song all summer long in '07, then shut up for about 4-5 games once the season started.
Gee, here's a surprise - one of Dumb Ass' biggest fans calls himself Drunkandstoopid. Are ya sure?????
Let's just say all 31 other teams told me I was right with these 2 words at DA's availability this offseason: "No Thanks!"
My buddy Rip Van Winkle took 1 look at DA back in 2006 and said "Flugel, wake me up when this goofball wins his first start against an AFC team that wins more than 8 games in a season."
Needless to say, it's 2009 and he's still sleeping.
- Tom F.
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My first time this season starting a QB thread, so move along if you aren't interested.
My question relates to the competition and how/where film study of the two QB's comes into play. Obviously, there is more film on DA than Quinn at this point.
The reason I ask is because I witnessed DA's practice with my own eyes last year in Berea. The guy flat out looks like a world beater. Its hard to imagine the guy you see in Berea doing some of the things we've seen in the few years in live games. Doesn't seem to be the same guy.
So, where does this factor into the competition? Mangini's supposed to have said both guys are "even". So, he's simply going to see how the two practice and play in a handful of meaningless preseason games to pick a starter?
I must not understand what can be gleaned from practices.
My first time this season starting a QB thread, so move along if you aren't interested.
My question relates to the competition and how/where film study of the two QB's comes into play. Obviously, there is more film on DA than Quinn at this point.
The reason I ask is because I witnessed DA's practice with my own eyes last year in Berea. The guy flat out looks like a world beater. Its hard to imagine the guy you see in Berea doing some of the things we've seen in the few years in live games. Doesn't seem to be the same guy.
So, where does this factor into the competition? Mangini's supposed to have said both guys are "even". So, he's simply going to see how the two practice and play in a handful of meaningless preseason games to pick a starter?
I must not understand what can be gleaned from practices.
Hi, just registered a few minutes ago with a question on Ratliff, if he's even playing.
Mangini is like the CIA. He'll give no information at all, speak in generalities, be flatly positive about everyone he actually does talk about, but his favorites are obvious (i.e. Elam).
Despite what Mangini says, he's going to look at past games and it's going to influence his opinion on the starter, regardless of what he says, unless on QB is crushing the other in the preseason, and, of course, unless he has no control of what happens on the team (front office control). I don't know what it's like in Cleveland.
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Yeah I'm more in line with NFL talent evaluators/coaching staffs.
You and Flugs base your evaluations on whether you can daydream about if a guy reminds you of Kosar or not.
I'll give you credit for being in line with Romeo Crennel. That's quite an accomplishment seeing how he walked the plank with Derek Anderson.
Trouble is you and your Oregon State buddies all seem to discount 31 NFL Evaluators didn't consider DA as starting material. If that's not enough, we COULD compare what rounds Anderson and Quinn were drafted AND projected to be drafted in by all these NFL Evaluators you claim to be on the same page with.
I'll embrace the next Brian Sipe story as soon as I see it. I wasn't the BIGGEST Quinn fan BEFORE the draft; and anyone that was here back then knows this. That said, the very SECOND we drafted him - he represented HOPE we currently lacked. Then it was kind of nice to see ND in national elite with him and off the map without him. Weis says he's smart, works hard and displays outstanding leadership. Meanwhile I saw 3 different receivers on the Browns screaming at DA on the sidelines to shed some light on what kind of leader he is. If Winslow and Edwards are saying Quinn should start, they prolly know more about each QB than any of us or any columnist for that matter.
It's NOT that I'm the biggest Quinn fan in the world, I just know how the story ends each and every time with DA. If he's all we got, that drains my excitement for the season considerably. I'm a BROWNS fan and you're a hometown hero fan. One of us wants what is right for the TEAM while the other wants what is right for his hometown in the Pacific Northwest.
Sticking with the name of this subject heading: Training camp with a red "hands off" jersey on the QBs does not prove who the starting QB should be. Wins and losses do that. We've sacrificed enough seasons on the wrong QBs. DA was 0-3 in 06 and 3-6 in 08. Same guy? You bet! I heard all about how wonderful DA was in training camp last year. That meant what in week 1?
- Tom F.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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