Wednesday PM practice
-
@shepwrite said:
Why aren't those Twitters tweeting?The twits don't have them turned on??
-
================
-Wednesday August 05, 2009, 8:40 PM
QB derby: The quarterbacks remained even through a day of situational team drills, including no-huddle, goal-line, and trailing by four points with one second remaining and facing fourth down from the 5. Both quarterbacks fared well in the latter drill, with Derek Anderson lobbing a TD pass to Mike Furrey on the left side of the end zone over Corey Ivy and Brady Quinn finding tight end Martin Rucker just inside the right corner.
Given the same situation but with the ball moved back to the 35, a leaping Brodney Pool knocked down Anderson's heave and Quinn's pass fell incomplete in the end zone. Backed up 10 more yards to the 45, Pool picked off Anderson's pass at the right side of the goal-line and Hamza Abdullah swatted Quinn's short offering away from Syndric Steptoe at about the 5. Quinn was picked off once by Eric Wright in team drills, but the ball was tipped by Brian Robiskie. Displaying plenty of arm strength, he hit Edwards on a deep post and Josh Cribbs on a fly in one-on-ones.
================
So, remaining even and the nod would go to Quinn. I'm still thinking if this plays out like we think it will, DA will edge Quinn in practices (because his throws are mesmerizing) and Quinn will gain the edge in games (leadership, mobility, grit, ball control).
We shall see.
-
@shepwrite said:
Honestly, I'm torn. If Anderson's better, he should start, right? That's my gut. If he outplays Quinn in practice and in preseason games, you give him the job because he earned it.On the other hand...
I understand the conflict, but there really is no other hand. BQ will have had 3 seasons to snare the job.
It simply boils down to who is doing the better job.
-
It sure sounds pretty darn even to me.
So, if it ends up that way, what do we do?
Who do we start?
And a general question...since it has been established by the majority of the board that DA sucks, does that mean BQ sucks too or does it mean the majority of the board really doesn't know how to judge a qb??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
It sure sounds pretty darn even to me.
So, if it ends up that way, what do we do?
Who do we start?
And a general question...since it has been established by the majority of the board that DA sucks, does that mean BQ sucks too or does it mean the majority of the board really doesn't know how to judge a qb??
So, if it ends up that way, what do we do?
Who do we start?
And a general question...since it has been established by the majority of the board that DA sucks, does that mean BQ sucks too or does it mean the majority of the board really doesn't know how to judge a qb??
It may mean that DA is really good and improved over last year or Brady Quinn sucked nuts.
-
I was at the practice with Satn and I thought DA was godawful. He hung onto the ball forever at least about 6 times. This is what we talk about that practice means shit, because on one play after the defense basically stopped he threw a deep out that was complete. Thye counted it and moved the chains, this after he already got nothing on first and second down. Nothing has changed, he looks the same as always. He airmailed an out to Braylon and did nothing in particular to tell me he's changed.
Quinn wasn't that great. He had Braylon deep from the goal line and threw a duck where Edwards had to go up for it. His pass to Robo was too hard and behind, but Robo should have had it so it didn't get picked. Neither guy looked good, but to me Quinn has a lot more going on in the pocket than DA. Da was stymied when the first guy was covered and just ate it. He now seems afraid to make a bad throw.
They were working on some scripted type stuff like throwing the ball up on an offsides etc. They also ran four wides with the tailback lining up at left slot. I think the plan is to come out 3 wide and then switch putting the back on a linebacker, which was Bowens in practice.
-
It sure sounds pretty darn even to me.
So, if it ends up that way, what do we do?
Who do we start?
And a general question...since it has been established by the majority of the board that DA sucks, does that mean BQ sucks too or does it mean the majority of the board really doesn't know how to judge a qb??
So, if it ends up that way, what do we do?
Who do we start?
And a general question...since it has been established by the majority of the board that DA sucks, does that mean BQ sucks too or does it mean the majority of the board really doesn't know how to judge a qb??
I'm hoping it means DA is a great practice guy, and Quinn never has been. He's a game day guy and has a higher ceiling. He'll be better than he is now once he has 20+ games under his belt. Mangini's conservative approach will give him time to grow and get comfortable, like Eli did with the G-men.
At least, that's my hope.
-
I was at the practice with Satn and I thought DA was godawful. He hung onto the ball forever at least about 6 times. This is what we talk about that practice means shit, because on one play after the defense basically stopped he threw a deep out that was complete. Thye counted it and moved the chains, this after he already got nothing on first and second down. Nothing has changed, he looks the same as always. He airmailed an out to Braylon and did nothing in particular to tell me he's changed.
Quinn wasn't that great. He had Braylon deep from the goal line and threw a duck where Edwards had to go up for it. His pass to Robo was too hard and behind, but Robo should have had it so it didn't get picked. Neither guy looked good, but to me Quinn has a lot more going on in the pocket than DA. Da was stymied when the first guy was covered and just ate it. He now seems afraid to make a bad throw.
They were working on some scripted type stuff like throwing the ball up on an offsides etc. They also ran four wides with the tailback lining up at left slot. I think the plan is to come out 3 wide and then switch putting the back on a linebacker, which was Bowens in practice.
I was at the practice with Satn and I thought DA was godawful. He hung onto the ball forever at least about 6 times. This is what we talk about that practice means shit, because on one play after the defense basically stopped he threw a deep out that was complete. Thye counted it and moved the chains, this after he already got nothing on first and second down. Nothing has changed, he looks the same as always. He airmailed an out to Braylon and did nothing in particular to tell me he's changed.
Quinn wasn't that great. He had Braylon deep from the goal line and threw a duck where Edwards had to go up for it. His pass to Robo was too hard and behind, but Robo should have had it so it didn't get picked. Neither guy looked good, but to me Quinn has a lot more going on in the pocket than DA. Da was stymied when the first guy was covered and just ate it. He now seems afraid to make a bad throw.
They were working on some scripted type stuff like throwing the ball up on an offsides etc. They also ran four wides with the tailback lining up at left slot. I think the plan is to come out 3 wide and then switch putting the back on a linebacker, which was Bowens in practice.
I don't like to hear that about both QBs. As for Anderson, I think he can improve. I mean, he had a couple of okay practice over the weekend, and Quinn had alright practices. Seems to me the competition is at a standstill, with no winner or loser. They are both even.
-
Some more titbits:
We had a crappy view cuz well, the Browns piss me off with their terrible angles and general fan unfriendliness in Berea, but that's a rant for another time.
Hubbard dropped the first ball thrown to him right on the money, but he does look like an actual receiver now and not some dumbass. But let's please stop the reports that he has caught everything. He also dropped another pass where a bigger guy like him should have come down with it.
I will say, these WR's look ten times better than last year. Even in one on ones, they caught pretty much everything and the QB's were sharp, especially on the deep balls. Believe it or not, Bartel looks the part too.
They are alternating the WR's all with the first unit. There is a rotation that includes way too much of Steptoe and everybody else down to Leggett. Patten again was out along with Carey.
Momass and Robo are nice, no doubt. Robo made a sweet deep grab in one on ones and Cribbs looks a little more fluid, but he doesn't get much work in the rotations (could this be to not generate contract talks---according to the Camp Show yesterday, Jackson is probably going to get a new deal and Cribbs won't.)
Harrison was absent from some drills where it was just Davis and Lewis. We couldn't find him anywhere. Could it be that Davis is already the primary backup? It looks like Harrison is primarily the third down guy, though he looked decent off tackle on some runs being shifty. Also, I noticed on one first team kcik coverage that Davis was again the first guy downfield. I think it's safe to say he's not a flash in pan and is for real. He is not over 210, no way, but that could be the plan to compliment Lewis, who looks slimmer. Herron got a few carries and would be okay as an emergencey, which is what he was brought in for.
The defense is totally different and ahead of the offense right now, no doubt. They are going to be fun to watch. Lots of corner blitzes whcih is what was killing DA. Bmac especially, looks like he's the designated guy. The starters were who we think with Bmac at one corner. I like Elam, but Pool still has me worried. On one play Quinn completed on a go route it was wide open and Pool was way out of place. Wimbley lined up on the left side on the first unit.
Rogers is a friggen man, good Lord. It must suck for those guys to go against him in practice.
Hadnot started at RG with the others and St Clair got beat badly by Mosely one play at RT, just blew up the pass play.
Rod Hood looks a little stumpy but quick.
Stan and I agree we both saw something we've never seen before, and that's an actual drill practicing punt blocks. I was amazed. They did it with Zastudil punting too!!! They actually came through with the snap and blocked the punt without somehow killing Z. Crazy stuff there, that is serious attention to detail cuz a lot of guys don't know how to take the proper angle for the block in live action, but with your starting punter???
I came away pretty happy with the looks of this defense and so so with the offense and QB's, but this was mostly a throwing practice with shorts and shoulder pads, so the defense is keying on the pass.
I need more of these practices but I wish they were more fan friendly.
-
Another point: I don't think Mack is starting, they are giving Fraley a lot of action there with the ones. Mack doesn't look that big to me. Veikune does for whoever said he isn't. Oh, and I really like the Barton upgrade over Davis, it is significant I believe.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
I don't know, I just think that for what we spent on Quinn (and what we turned down), we need to see what he can do in games that count. DA has had 20+ games...we know what he can and can't do...we will never know for sure unless Quinn gets 8-10 games minimum to show what he's got. I don't give a damn about practice stats. As a HS coach, practice is so scripted with very sterile, controlled circumstances it just can't simulate real live game tempo. So, you can't completely rely on what goes down in practice. Our starting QB throws picks and poor passes early because often times the timing with the WR's isn't there and our defense has an advantage in terms of the vanilla play calling in the early stages. But he's also more successful sometimes because he's not going to get hit and our guys "pull off" and allow him to throw so we can run our plays. That isn't realistic to live games, but is necessary for learning the plays and the rhythm of the offense.
Reg season games is what I want to see from Quinn.
I mean we're talkin about PRACTICE.... PRACTICE!!.......PRACTICE!!
-
So, if it ends up that way, what do we do?
Who do we start?
And a general question...since it has been established by the majority of the board that DA sucks, does that mean BQ sucks too or does it mean the majority of the board really doesn't know how to judge a qb??
I'm hoping it means DA is a great practice guy, and Quinn never has been. He's a game day guy and has a higher ceiling. He'll be better than he is now once he has 20+ games under his belt. Mangini's conservative approach will give him time to grow and get comfortable, like Eli did with the G-men.
At least, that's my hope.
I'm hoping it means DA is a great practice guy, and Quinn never has been. He's a game day guy and has a higher ceiling. He'll be better than he is now once he has 20+ games under his belt. Mangini's conservative approach will give him time to grow and get comfortable, like Eli did with the G-men.
At least, that's my hope.
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I'm hoping it means DA is a great practice guy, and Quinn never has been. He's a game day guy and has a higher ceiling. He'll be better than he is now once he has 20+ games under his belt. Mangini's conservative approach will give him time to grow and get comfortable, like Eli did with the G-men.
At least, that's my hope.
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
Well, DA sucked in practice pretty bad. The direction might have come down that the protocol will be more management than airing things out, which means DA is going to be afraid to let it go like he used to. If that's the case, he is in trouble.
Frye was never a good practice player at Akron either. he was good enough in practice to beat DA out in 2007.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
That's cool Riff...I am not going to argue the QBs...I am willing to go with whoever the coach decides is best equipped to help him keep his job.
-
That's cool Riff...I am not going to argue the QBs...I am willing to go with whoever the coach decides is best equipped to help him keep his job.
That's cool Riff...I am not going to argue the QBs...I am willing to go with whoever the coach decides is best equipped to help him keep his job.
LMAO, for someone who isn't going to argue the QB's you chime in more than anybody
Is a pig's ass pork? -
I'm hoping it means DA is a great practice guy, and Quinn never has been. He's a game day guy and has a higher ceiling. He'll be better than he is now once he has 20+ games under his belt. Mangini's conservative approach will give him time to grow and get comfortable, like Eli did with the G-men.
At least, that's my hope.
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
Yeah, I don't know if I buy it either, but I'm hoping. It was Quinn's rep at ND and he did set 36 QB records there.
I know there are guys known for being average in practice and great on game day, but I'll admit I can't pull any names up. Even if I could, it doesn't mean anything specific to Quinn of course.
-
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
Well, DA sucked in practice pretty bad. The direction might have come down that the protocol will be more management than airing things out, which means DA is going to be afraid to let it go like he used to. If that's the case, he is in trouble.
Frye was never a good practice player at Akron either. he was good enough in practice to beat DA out in 2007.
Well, DA sucked in practice pretty bad. The direction might have come down that the protocol will be more management than airing things out, which means DA is going to be afraid to let it go like he used to. If that's the case, he is in trouble.
Frye was never a good practice player at Akron either. he was good enough in practice to beat DA out in 2007.
Thanks for setting everybody straight riff. All these reports about Anderson smokin Quinnie must be a bunch of Oralgoners. There must be tons of them at ESPN, CBS Sportsline, Sirius Radio, the Akron Beacon Journal. They're everywhere.
By the way, what's with all the sudden proclamations from Camp BQ that Quinn is a better gamer than he is a practice player? I wonder why everybody just started saying that within the last few days after never mentioning it for the last few years. Got any ideas?
-
Well, DA sucked in practice pretty bad. The direction might have come down that the protocol will be more management than airing things out, which means DA is going to be afraid to let it go like he used to. If that's the case, he is in trouble.
Frye was never a good practice player at Akron either. he was good enough in practice to beat DA out in 2007.
Thanks for setting everybody straight riff. All these reports about Anderson smokin Quinnie must be a bunch of Oralgoners. There must be tons of them at ESPN, CBS Sportsline, Sirius Radio, the Akron Beacon Journal. They're everywhere.
By the way, what's with all the sudden proclamations from Camp BQ that Quinn is a better gamer than he is a practice player? I wonder why everybody just started saying that within the last few days after never mentioning it for the last few years. Got any ideas?
-
-
I'm hoping it means DA is a great practice guy, and Quinn never has been. He's a game day guy and has a higher ceiling. He'll be better than he is now once he has 20+ games under his belt. Mangini's conservative approach will give him time to grow and get comfortable, like Eli did with the G-men.
At least, that's my hope.
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
Maybe I am pragmatic, but I don't buy that poor practice guy crap.
I came up in an era where it was preached you played like you practiced.
It was said Chuck Frye was a poor practice player but could get it done on gameday.
Riiight
I can't speak for everyone BUT I grew up in an era where the QB got TACKLED in practice. When QBs aren't TACKLED in practice today - defenses are told to stop so they can complete a pass with poise, proper mechanics and confidence. It looks NOTHING like game day. We're talking about 2 completely different things. I remembered hearing Worthlessberger was so terrible in training camp practices BEFORE he started - Pittsburgh felt compelled to give Tommy Maddox an insane raise. Maddox got hurt and the clumsy basterd went 15-1 whether his cleats were on the right feet or not.
The RED practice "hands off the QB" jersey doesn't let you KNOW if you've got a Roger Staubach or a Craig Morton. If anything, it would favor a Craig Morton because Roger the Dodger wasn't special until AFTER the pocket broke down and there was adversity. Then he'd BURY the opponent. Morton couldn't extend plays so WHY reward him with that priviledge in a competition for the starting job? Landry didn't do that folks because Staubach started right?
If that's too ancient of an example, we'll use the Tony Romo vrs Drew Bledsoe comparison. There seemed to be a clearcut difference in which guy could handle a pocket collapse and which guy couldn't. If you gave both guys a RED no contact jersey for game day - I'm not so sure Romo remains the more effective QB. Then again, have you ever seen this on GAME DAY? It's the coach's job to KNOW who is better by combining film study, examining trends, seeing leadership assets, and moving the team so there's a gut decision the coach feels confident in.
Last year, DA clearly WON the training camp battle when defenses weren't allowed to block passes, tackle or get in the way when the QBs were trying to throw the ball. Then I look at our game vrs Indy. They can't score a single TD on our defense. Guess how they scored? Dumb Ass held onto the ball too long and somenbody stripped the ball from him and raced 68 yards for the game winning score. That's the difference between training Camp QB and GAME DAY QB. We would go on to lose this game as EVERY Derek Anderson fan would inform us how close he kept us in that 10-6 to the Colts. Another example was his horrible display of leadership in the night game vrs Pitt when he didn't call timeout right before the half. Our offense was in a state of chaos trying to get the snap off before the 30 second clock and DA threw an atrocious INT to Pollyneedsahaircut, which would cost us dearly considering the final score would end up being 10-6 them. Now ENLIGHTEN my ass about where all the training camp heroics disappeared to?????
I think Greythan posed a GREAT question when he asked when is the criteria about watching NFL film on the QB. I'll tell you when it is about that - when 31 other teams were offered DA's starting services. Now the question comes up - "Cleveland is paying this kid starting cake - is he worth it?" Not 1 of them showed the least bit of interest. Why? MANY of them remembered how easy it was to stop him and others didn't like what they saw on film.
I don't KNOW if Quinn is the answer - but I've clearly seen DA is not the answer. That being the case, it sure as Hell would be nice to see the guy we traded away a first and a second round pick for. If not, it's gonna be extremely difficult to get excited about this season. Folks, there's a reason Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar are heroes to me. This team was all hitters and no quitters whenever we've had the right QB.
- Tom F.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login