Quinn-essential
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\ said:
Read Shep's post on his starts. Now I know why you normally don't look up stats.
Also comparing last week to this, Quinn didn't throw a pick on the last drive to win the game. DA did.
Finally, DA didn't play poorly against the Ravens. I know I never indicated that he did. The team has issues, we all get that. However, based off one game (and one game only) Quinn looks promising. What we KNOW about DA is that after 20 starts he remains an erratic player who struggles to complete passes, is wildly inaccurate in the intermediate to short game, and is a liability when forced to move in/out of the pocket.
So, as I said, let it go. Quinn's going to keep playing. If he continues to look like a guy who can lead the offense and post decent stats then he's an upgrade. Pretty simple really.
We also know that DA's scouting report out of HS and college is the same scouting report on him today:
"His decision-making is suspect." "He has a tendency to be very deliberate with his delivery." "Gets an unusual number of passes batted down at the line for a guy his size." "Tends to try to 'rocket arm balls' into tight spaces." "Makes ill-advised throws." "Has difficulty making accurate throws in close quarters." "Over-powers balls on short throws." "Lacks mobility." "Can get flustered." "Tends to sail intermediate throws."
And those didn't even point out the fact that his arm amps up when the pressure sets in.
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Please Masters I have been in on these thread since the beginning of last year. I have been constantly consistent. I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.
Quinn had a good start that led to a loss because it was not the QB that was the problem that all you suffering from brady mania seem to think. The proof is in the results that mirrored back to back games EXACTLY. It was NOT DA, in fact he produced more with less against much better.
You want to be "happy" with the loss because of so called promise and better comp stats and qb rating? ELI still has his super bowl ring regardless of his qb rating last year. Why did the jets trade away 68.8 comp rating 89.6 qb rated chad pennington to get gunslinging td throwing Favre who also throws a lot of ints?... Eli manning 56.1 comp rating 73.9 qb rating... winner in a super bowl how does that fly in the face of the almight comp rating and qb rating?
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I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.
No Sev, you don't. You just always tell us you do.
Your most recent attempt at giving us "facts" was presenting DA's breakout game against Cincy as his "first start".
Are you going to address that one?
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\ said:
Derek Anderson FIRST START 20 for 33 60.6 comp rating 328 yards 5tds 1 int 121.00 passer rating Leading to a team WIN.That was his first start Greythan go look it up at NFL.com
quinn had a great STARTING debut? it was but Anderson's was Better.
You went to all the effort to use the drop downs to get to his 2007 stats and didn't bother to select 2006? Which included his 4INT game in career start #3 (remind you of another game he started in 2007 when CLE needed a win against that same team you listed for his 1st career start?).
http://www.nfl.com/players/derekanderso ... eason=2006
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Eli manning 56.1 comp rating 73.9 qb rating... winner in a super bowl how does that fly in the face of the almight comp rating and qb rating?
This was covered already.
Eli's run of 5(?) games is what made the Super Bowl possible. His stats during that run? QB rating of 105. 10 TD's and 2 INT's. (Thanks Ocon)
What, exactly, gives you any sense that DA would somehow be able to put a five game stretch together like that? He never has. Not even close. We're three years into watching DA. If Quinn plays anything like how he did this first week, the DA experiment is over. I'll go one further, if Quinn pans out to be as bad or worse....
... we're in the market for a QB.
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\ said:
Please Masters I have been in on these thread since the beginning of last year. I have been constantly consistent. I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.You mean those that are wrong - see you listing for DA's first career start. So where are you on the threads blasting Romeo, BMac, the D as a whole, on Lewis and his comments, etc.?
Quinn had a good start that led to a loss because it was not the QB that was the problem that all you suffering from brady mania seem to think. The proof is in the results that mirrored back to back games EXACTLY. It was NOT DA, in fact he produced more with less against much better.
Pa-lease! So Brady had 3 and outs in the 4th when Den was coming or first took the lead? Brady had should of been picks? The games didn't mirror each other at all, other than the loss. The out rage for the loss does mirror each other, w/ the exception that the QB play can't take blame (though Brady took it, unlike DA). QB play has been an issue. Isn't it the only or biggest issue for CLE? No. But it was one issue, and one that had a chance to be resolved. You fight the fires you can, no matter what business or sport. More w/ less? Because Stallworth was playing (yet Eric wasn't)? So the lack of Stallworth explains away 5 of 8 starts of completing less than 60% of passes (oh, and those drops, even if you give him those don't bring that average up to NFL quality). Four of the 8 being at 51% or less.
You want to be "happy" with the loss because of so called promise and better comp stats and qb rating? ELI still has his super bowl ring regardless of his qb rating last year. Why did the jets trade away 68.8 comp rating 89.6 qb rated chad pennington to get gunslinging td throwing Favre who also throws a lot of ints?... Eli manning 56.1 comp rating 73.9 qb rating... winner in a super bowl how does that fly in the face of the almight comp rating and qb rating?
Who said I was happy with a loss? Saying that blows your first statement out of the water. Read the board, other than the QB related threads. Big Ben put up crap in his SB too. But he is a leader and made plays when his team needed them, just like Eli. This is what you guys who defend DA seem not to grasp. It's not just the bad play, but bad play when an NFL QB must step up. And if you wouldn't take Favre over all but 3 NFL QB's in the league, your a fool.
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\ said:
I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.
No Sev, you don't. You just always tell us you do.
Your most recent attempt at giving us "facts" was presenting DA's breakout game against Cincy as his "first start".
Are you going to address that one?
No he won't. Just like Lum won't address his "facts" that aren't facts at all either.
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Anyone arguing for DA is simply bias or an idiot. Even if Quinn had not played well on Thursday, it is (and has been) apparent that DA does possess what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL. The Quinn bashers need to check themselves. By not liking an indivudual just because he went to a college that you did not like, because he's a pretty boy, because your girlfriend thinks he's hot, etc....is insane. The kid has done nothing his whole football career but display leadership and class. These people know who they are. I could not care less for any bullshit reasons that may be thrown back at this post. You can keep lying to yourself, but I do not have the time to listen to it. Browns' fans should be cautiously optimistic by what we saw from Quinn and should embrace him as our future QB...not squabbling about DA. He had ample chances to prove he was the man...he proved otherwise.
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good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.
I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
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\ said:
...if a surgical team does not have enough Rn's, but has a surgeon, no competent management, temp surgical assistants, a anasthesiologist who gets the mix right half of the time how well do you think that team for surgery is going to do over say 16 surgeries? Are you going to start with micro criticisms of everything the surgeon is doing? Thats exactly what fans are doing right now.They want to blame the surgeon currently operating and replace him hoping for different results. How effective would that be for the hospital?
A great surgeon can do surgery with sub-average support. He makes everyone around him better. He can do it with fewer or poor nurses and a clueless anesthesiologist, because he knows their job too, comands the operating room, and has the attitude that nothing is going to go wrong on his watch. This "its my operating room and things WILL go right" is taught in surgical residencies. You are taught to exude confidence, be competent, and the operations will go better.
If he's the worst surgeon in the hospital (like DA is, ranked 31st in the NFL), the chances of the surgery going well are reduced. He needs amazing support staff to succeed. The talk in the break room about how bad the surgeon performs is relentless, because everyone knows he's the worst player on the surgical team. And yes, if bad enough, they will "chant" by filing complaints about the surgeon, which can lead to diciplinary action. I've seen it happen.
So, with DA being the lowest ranked player on the offense, the break room is buzzing and complaints are being filed, so to speak.
I see that you're bummed with the Brady chants, and I'm one of those chanters. When the Browns drafted him in such dramatic fashion in '07, I thought things couldn't get better. Damn near went running around the house. My brother, father, and grandfather all went to ND. I grew up a Browns fan and an ND fan. A dream come true and it'll probably be the most exciting Browns draft I'll ever see. The #1 ranked tackle and the QB who grew up 30 minutes from my house wearing Bernie Kosar for Halloween, went to ND, and drafted by the Browns. We were finally making the right move after stumbling back into the NFL (I, like most, didn't sleep well for days when Modell moved the Browns. My wife started shooting the "really, you're still upset" look). THEN, Quinn sits for what seems like forever. So, I think they excitement for BQ based on this one game is part pent up emotion, from many angles, from many Browns fans.
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\ said:
good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
He was named the starter for those games. What, GS now don't count unless it isn't your job to lose....lmfao.
Um, as JADBF pointed out previously to you, 7 of the points in the BALT game were supplied by Cribbs on KO returned for a TD.
You keep looking and reading and posting on this board like a person who is only concerned about the QB positon. Like checkers? That's why I just pointed out here and in other threads that DA was one of many issues on this team (and smaller in comparison).
Not to mention those here that were apparently watching CLE before last year (how the F*@K can a fan not remember DA playing in 2006?). -
good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.
I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
You're a joke Sev. I've tried like hell to give you a long leash but you can never simply man up and admit you're wrong.
You attacked my comparison of Quinn's debut to Anderson's (i.e., his first "start") and when faced with the facts the best bullshit you've got is "Its pretty widely accepted"? No, it wasn't at all you moron. Going into the Cincy game last year it was "pretty widely accepted" that DA was only keeping the seat warm for Quinn. There was no sense that the team had been handed over to DA.
Pathetic. You need to remember the old addage: Better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
This following your complete inability to own up to an error and you are accusing the mass of us posting contrary to you as being incapable?
Yup. It is "funny".
Post less. Read more. You'll be happier.
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\ said:
Anyone arguing for DA is simply bias or an idiot. Even if Quinn had not played well on Thursday, it is (and has been) apparent that DA does possess what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL. The Quinn bashers need to check themselves. By not liking an indivudual just because he went to a college that you did not like, because he's a pretty boy, because your girlfriend thinks he's hot, etc....is insane. The kid has done nothing his whole football career but display leadership and class. These people know who they are. I could not care less for any bullshit reasons that may be thrown back at this post. You can keep lying to yourself, but I do not have the time to listen to it. Browns' fans should be cautiously optimistic by what we saw from Quinn and should embrace him as our future QB...not squabbling about DA. He had ample chances to prove he was the man...he proved otherwise.Brady is pretty hot!
Oh, and sorry for taking your name in vain.
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\ said:
good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.
I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
You're a joke Sev. I've tried like hell to give you a long leash but you can never simply man up and admit you're wrong.
You attacked my comparison of Quinn's debut to Anderson's (i.e., his first "start") and when faced with the facts the best bullshit you've got is "Its pretty widely accepted"? No, it wasn't at all you moron. Going into the Cincy game last year it was "pretty widely accepted" that DA was only keeping the seat warm for Quinn. There was no sense that the team had been handed over to DA.
Pathetic. You need to remember the old addage: Better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
This following your complete inability to own up to an error and you are accusing the mass of us posting contrary to you as being incapable?
Yup. It is "funny".
Post less. Read more. You'll be happier.
I vote this POST OF THE DAY!
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Im a joke and a moron, wow that hurts my feelings greythan..... I hope that makes you feel so much better. I dont need your leash, nor agree in any way with a majority of your posts.
I dont care if "popular" opinion of fans runs contrary to what I see. YOu really think I need some random internet personalities validation or leash?
I already have, the back to back games and exact replica of results in the exact same way after the suppossed variable for change occured. The best thing is the difference in quality of defenses was so vastly different exposed the problem so completely that it needs no more validation.
All of you know that brady had more to work with offensively against a vastly inferior defense than just the week before when both qbs threw for 2 tds and had the ball at the very end of the game. Both attempted to pass in the redzone and failed the same way. Both had 13+point leads going into the second half of the game when the teams melted down in the end of the 3rd and 4th. One had stallworth and a running game the other did not.
keep patting yourself on the back telling yourself the loss was really a step forward because quinn was in when in reality it was probably a step back. Pennington was traded in favor for the gunslinger who knew how to win, Eli was hated for his qb rating and comp rating even though he had a much better supporting cast.
In the end it does not matter because fans are going to see different paths on how to win and have no say except to argue amongst themselves. What happened to your micro criticisms of red zone attempts and field position giving the qb favorable chances, what happened to the circus catches and cockpit? what happened to playing well against crap defenses not really counting? BQ had the ball on the last drive right? incompletes right? O I C its BQ not DA so its all ok. Wait where is the IT factor that leads to wins? We lost right? O now its a TEAM and organizational problem not the qb position...now that bq is in.
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Sev, just admit you were wrong on the first start stats. That's all.
As for the rest of your rant, point me to the thread where I said that Quinn was the answer to the team's ills. I'll wait for this since you are always facted based in your arguments.
All I said about Quinn's first start was that he looked promising. Nothing more.
All I've said about DA is that after three seasons of play (starts in all three season) he was not progressing as a QB at a rate necessary for us to win a championship. Might he someday iron out his systemic flaws? I don't know. What I do know is that waiting for him to do so with another option on the bench is silly. It was time to see if Quinn is a better option. Not sure why you seem so against it.
Oh, and don't forget we were playing with two starters on our OLine missing (Tucker and Steinbach) and we were without Vickers. That's 30% of the QB's supporting cast. Don't also forget that the Ravens defensive backfield was a group of walking wounded when we played them. That said, Denver's defense is no where near as good as the Ravens. That doesn't change the fact that Quinn looked good for a first time starter on a short week. Which is pretty much what this entire thread is about, journalistic sensationalism aside.
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I cannot wait til the day they get DA out of town so these guys follow him and we can actually talk about browns football. I appreciate their support of a former player, but he had his shot and he showed his colors. Move on sev 'cause yer boy is gonna be moving soon,too.
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