The official Terry Pluto thread
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Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!
To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"
Mike
Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!
To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"
Mike
Yeah let's try something "new" like hiring someone new......again.
Or maybe coaches with decent experience don't want any part of the post 1999 "new Browns". That might not be a good thing.
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Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!
To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"
Mike
Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!
To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"
Mike
What was Mangini's record with the Jets? I know that Jackson was 8-8 with the Raiders.....a team that seemingly overachieved to attain that record. It is certainly hard to judge.
Take the hiring of Mike Holmgren.....successful as HC at GB....and as HC at Seattle...and fair success as GM at Seattle. We figured we would bring him in here and he could work some of his magic. And we know how that all turned out.
So, past success as we have seen does not guarantee future success. Nor, as we have seen does past failure guarantee future failure We have also seen that neither having past HC experience......nor NOT having past HC experience has helped.
So...it seems, there is NO formula for getting this right. I mean, what then is one to do, other than to try to find the right people regardless of past credentials, I guess.
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Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!
To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"
Mike
What was Mangini's record with the Jets? I know that Jackson was 8-8 with the Raiders.....a team that seemingly overachieved to attain that record. It is certainly hard to judge.
Take the hiring of Mike Holmgren.....successful as HC at GB....and as HC at Seattle...and fair success as GM at Seattle. We figured we would bring him in here and he could work some of his magic. And we know how that all turned out.
So, past success as we have seen does not guarantee future success. Nor, as we have seen does past failure guarantee future failure We have also seen that neither having past HC experience......nor NOT having past HC experience has helped.
So...it seems, there is NO formula for getting this right. I mean, what then is one to do, other than to try to find the right people regardless of past credentials, I guess.
What was Mangini's record with the Jets? I know that Jackson was 8-8 with the Raiders.....a team that seemingly overachieved to attain that record. It is certainly hard to judge.
Take the hiring of Mike Holmgren.....successful as HC at GB....and as HC at Seattle...and fair success as GM at Seattle. We figured we would bring him in here and he could work some of his magic. And we know how that all turned out.
So, past success as we have seen does not guarantee future success. Nor, as we have seen does past failure guarantee future failure We have also seen that neither having past HC experience......nor NOT having past HC experience has helped.
So...it seems, there is NO formula for getting this right. I mean, what then is one to do, other than to try to find the right people regardless of past credentials, I guess.
There are no guarantees but if I am playing the odds and going for the safest bet I would go with past proven successful NFL head coaches certainly over those who were past failures or the coordinators who have never been a HC.
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Just a few hours ago. By the way as to previous comment I was okay with giving Mancini another term.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
What was Mangini's record with the Jets? I know that Jackson was 8-8 with the Raiders.....a team that seemingly overachieved to attain that record. It is certainly hard to judge.
Take the hiring of Mike Holmgren.....successful as HC at GB....and as HC at Seattle...and fair success as GM at Seattle. We figured we would bring him in here and he could work some of his magic. And we know how that all turned out.
So, past success as we have seen does not guarantee future success. Nor, as we have seen does past failure guarantee future failure We have also seen that neither having past HC experience......nor NOT having past HC experience has helped.
So...it seems, there is NO formula for getting this right. I mean, what then is one to do, other than to try to find the right people regardless of past credentials, I guess.
There are no guarantees but if I am playing the odds and going for the safest bet I would go with past proven successful NFL head coaches certainly over those who were past failures or the coordinators who have never been a HC.
There are no guarantees but if I am playing the odds and going for the safest bet I would go with past proven successful NFL head coaches certainly over those who were past failures or the coordinators who have never been a HC.
That seems a reasonable approach. It has certainly not been a universally successful approach....but it seems reasonable.
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Just a few hours ago. By the way as to previous comment I was okay with giving Mancini another term.
WSS
Just a few hours ago. By the way as to previous comment I was okay with giving Mancini another term.
WSS
Henry....or Ray "Boom Bomm?
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Just a few hours ago. By the way as to previous comment I was okay with giving Mancini another term.
WSS
Henry....or Ray "Boom Bomm?
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Henry....or Ray "Boom Bomm?
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Typo
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Henry....or Ray "Boom Bomm?
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Typo
Typo
I know but it gave me the chance to mention those two Northeast Ohio area personalities
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Oh brother ! This just seems so deja vu here we go again. Do we just wait until it's all over and see what happens next?
As I’ve written before, I have “Firing Fatigue.” I bet that’s true of many Browns fans.
......No kidding.
If you were born from January 1969 on you've never seen the Pittsburgh Steelers fire a head coach. 51+ years.
Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
I'm. Fucking. Exhausted.
Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
Looking at the list for "Leaders" I see only one... Butch... with two possible, Honorable Mentions, Mangini and Pet, albeit in an entirely different, quieter "style" on their part. The rest were all the Hot Coordinator du jour except for Hue who was the HC weasel du siecle.
Butch seemed to have the presence, the personality, the command.... his self-inflicted misfortune was he also had the GM role.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years.
Looking at the list for "Leaders" I see only one... Butch... with two possible, Honorable Mentions, Mangini and Pet, albeit in an entirely different, quieter "style" on their part. The rest were all the Hot Coordinator du jour except for Hue who was the HC weasel du siecle.
Butch seemed to have the presence, the personality, the command.... his self-inflicted misfortune was he also had the GM role.
Looking at the list for "Leaders" I see only one... Butch... with two possible, Honorable Mentions, Mangini and Pet, albeit in an entirely different, quieter "style" on their part. The rest were all the Hot Coordinator du jour except for Hue who was the HC weasel du siecle.
Butch seemed to have the presence, the personality, the command.... his self-inflicted misfortune was he also had the GM role.
Leaders, for another generalization who since the 1980s has got them near or into the playoffs? Not many since Billy B.
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Updated 6:09 AM;Today 5:00 AM. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/cleveland-browns-now-have-coaching-choices-but-dont-forget-the-gm.html
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Talking to myself about where the Browns stand with their coaching search:
QUESTION: All the other teams have their coaches, isn’t that a good thing for the Browns?
ANSWER: If they do it right, that’s true.
Q: Meaning what?.......
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Just a step back from all of this Browns and other stuff, from Terry Pluto. https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/2020/01/faith-you-what-me-worry-well-sometimes-i-do-now-what.html
CLEVELAND – On my facebook page, I asked readers a few questions about worry, including “What is the dumbest thing you’ve worried about?”........
Good read.
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From Terry ....... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/was-it-a-good-idea-for-cleveland-browns-to-pick-kevin-stefanski-over-josh-mcdaniels.html
1. Based on my emails, very few Browns fans are thrilled with the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as the team’s new head coach. That’s understandable. Who really knows if the 37-year former Minnesota offensive coordinator can do the job?.......
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From Terry ....... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/was-it-a-good-idea-for-cleveland-browns-to-pick-kevin-stefanski-over-josh-mcdaniels.html
1. Based on my emails, very few Browns fans are thrilled with the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as the team’s new head coach. That’s understandable. Who really knows if the 37-year former Minnesota offensive coordinator can do the job?.......
From Terry ....... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/was-it-a-good-idea-for-cleveland-browns-to-pick-kevin-stefanski-over-josh-mcdaniels.html
1. Based on my emails, very few Browns fans are thrilled with the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as the team’s new head coach. That’s understandable. Who really knows if the 37-year former Minnesota offensive coordinator can do the job?.......
also from Terry...
13. If I had to pick between Stefanski and McDaniels, I’d go with Stefanski.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
From Terry ....... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/was-it-a-good-idea-for-cleveland-browns-to-pick-kevin-stefanski-over-josh-mcdaniels.html
1. Based on my emails, very few Browns fans are thrilled with the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as the team’s new head coach. That’s understandable. Who really knows if the 37-year former Minnesota offensive coordinator can do the job?.......
also from Terry...
13. If I had to pick between Stefanski and McDaniels, I’d go with Stefanski.
also from Terry...
13. If I had to pick between Stefanski and McDaniels, I’d go with Stefanski.
It don't fucking matter. It only matters if they win. The choice has been made....now we just have some more years (1 at least) to show whether it was good or bad.
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It don't fucking matter. It only matters if they win. The choice has been made....now we just have some more years (1 at least) to show whether it was good or bad.
I'm pumped Gipper. I don't have time to get into all of the details, but hopefully I will soon. I know everyone is excited! Lol
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Here's a concern. Stefanski got the job apparently because he ceded authority to run the team to people that included Jimmy and Dee. Is anyone else nervous than about his ability to stand up to obj Landry maybe even Baker or anyone else? And even if he can the minute Depo or the Haslam's make him back down his stature in the locker room will be pretty much gone.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
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Here's a concern. Stefanski got the job apparently because he ceded authority to run the team to people that included Jimmy and Dee. Is anyone else nervous than about his ability to stand up to obj Landry maybe even Baker or anyone else? And even if he can the minute Depo or the Haslam's make him back down his stature in the locker room will be pretty much gone.
WSS
Here's a concern. Stefanski got the job apparently because he ceded authority to run the team to people that included Jimmy and Dee. Is anyone else nervous than about his ability to stand up to obj Landry maybe even Baker or anyone else? And even if he can the minute Depo or the Haslam's make him back down his stature in the locker room will be pretty much gone.
WSS
Well....to me, those are not a concern, until they are a concern. For now all that is speculation. Fair speculation, but I won't be concerned until it actually happens.
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Here's a concern. Stefanski got the job apparently because he ceded authority to run the team to people that included Jimmy and Dee. Is anyone else nervous than about his ability to stand up to obj Landry maybe even Baker or anyone else? And even if he can the minute Depo or the Haslam's make him back down his stature in the locker room will be pretty much gone.
WSS
Well....to me, those are not a concern, until they are a concern. For now all that is speculation. Fair speculation, but I won't be concerned until it actually happens.
Well....to me, those are not a concern, until they are a concern. For now all that is speculation. Fair speculation, but I won't be concerned until it actually happens.
999,999 out of a million words on this entire board are speculation.
WSS
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