Patriots Fallout

Dutch Oven

@browns52 said:

haslem is a slimeball,,,,,been saying that for yrs......

Yet you can't figure out how to spell his name.

Adoug319

@crunchy said:

Okay, you're crazy. McDaniels is less than nothing without Belicheat and his cameras, and also is a piece of crap who bailed on the Colts - luckily for them - after accepting their HC job. Who would want him besides two of the dumbest owners in the league, Jim 'pills are my life' Irsay and Jim 'felony fraud, steelers #1 fan' Haslam.

Also, why would anyone want a washed-up 43 year old QB who's only played in one place with one system for one coach his entire career? If he leaves NE, where he sucked this year, it's not going to go well for him.

Lemme ask you something, how many Super Bowls has Belichick won without McDaniels? The answer is 0.

Not saying McDaniels is the sole reason, but to assert that’s Belichick is the reason for McDaniels success as an OC is factually incorrect and ridiculous. Not to mention, Belichick is a defensive coach and McDaniels has full control of the offense.

A 43 year old QB who clearly is still good. This year he threw for 4,000 yards, 24 TDs and 8 INTs. Yeah, he sucks. He’s played for one system, and he’s most likely going to follow that system (McDaniels) wherever he goes for one more year.

The Gipper

@neo said:

Seriously though, why would anyone care what Baker thinks? Nobody is bigger than the team. Baker has arm talent but I think he doesn't have what's between the ears to make it as an elite NFL QB. He is an interception machine and seems to be regressing. Next season will be make or break for him.

This statement is almost too stupid to warrant a response, but I will indulge you:

He is the starting Quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. That alone means people care what he thinks.

Your better question is: Why would anyone care what I (Neo) think about Baker Mayfield? And NOW would be the time for the response: No one does.

The Gipper

@crunchy said:

It won't matter if Brady leaves and McDaniels gets hired by some moron to HC. As long as NE has Belicrap and their film crew they'll win lots of games.

I could surmise that without Brady, BB would be basically the same coach that he was in Cleveland. Playoff contender (at least occasionally)...not championship caliber.

The Gipper

@adoug319 said:

Lemme ask you something, how many Super Bowls has Belichick won without McDaniels? The answer is 0.

Not saying McDaniels is the sole reason, but to assert that’s Belichick is the reason for McDaniels success as an OC is factually incorrect and ridiculous. Not to mention, Belichick is a defensive coach and McDaniels has full control of the offense.

A 43 year old QB who clearly is still good. This year he threw for 4,000 yards, 24 TDs and 8 INTs. Yeah, he sucks. He’s played for one system, and he’s most likely going to follow that system (McDaniels) wherever he goes for one more year.

Are you sure? Those wins in 2001, 2002? Seems that McDaniels may have been way too young then. I will check..... OK...not true. Charlie Weis was OC then....don't see McD on the staff:

Front office

Chairman and Owner – Robert Kraft
Vice chairman – Jonathan Kraft
Senior Vice President and chief operating officer – Andy Wasynczuk
Director of Player Personnel – Scott Pioli
Director of College Scouting – Larry Cook
Assistant Director of Pro Scouting – Andre Tippett
Assistant Director of College Scouting – Lionel Vital
Football Research Director – Ernie Adams

Head coaches

Head Coach – Bill Belichick
Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Line – Dante Scarnecchia

Offensive coaches

Offensive Coordinator/Running Backs – Charlie Weis
Quarterbacks – Dick Rehbein (died on August 6).
Wide Receivers – Ivan Fears
Assistant Offensive Line – Jeff Davidson
Coaching Assistant – Ned Burke

Defensive coaches

Defensive Coordinator – Romeo Crennel
Defensive Line – Randy Melvin
Inside Linebackers – Pepper Johnson
Outside Linebackers – Rob Ryan
Defensive Backs – Eric Mangini
Coaching Assistant – Brian Daboll

Special teams coaches

Special Teams – Brad Seely

Strength and conditioning

Strength and Conditioning – Mike Woicik
Assistant Strength and Conditioning – Markus Paul

mjp28

From the Boston.com after the loss......

COMMENTS https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2020/01/05/patriots-titans-takeaways-analysis

By

Dave D'Onofrio

1:22 AM

COMMENTARY

Five takeaways from the Patriots’ 20-13, season-ending — and perhaps dynasty-destroying — loss to the Titans in the AFC wild card round …

THIS WAS A FLAWED SQUAD ALL ALONG

This might’ve seemed impossible when they were 8-0.

Heck, it still might’ve seemed impossible a week ago, when all they needed for a ticket to the divisional round was to beat the last-place Dolphins.
But in the end, the perception was not in fact the reality. These Patriots were never as good as their record or the expectations told us they were supposed to be.

It became apparent enough over time that the end should not ultimately be all that surprising........ continued in the link......

The Gipper

McDaniels WAS on the staff in 2002:

Head Coaches

Head Coach – Bill Belichick
Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Line – Dante Scarnecchia

Offensive Coaches

Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks – Charlie Weis
Running Backs – Ivan Fears
Wide Receivers – Brian Daboll
Assistant Offensive Line/Tight Ends – Jeff Davidson
Coaching Assistant – Nick Caserio

Defensive Coaches

Defensive Coordinator/Defensive Line – Romeo Crennel
Outside Linebackers – Rob Ryan
Inside Linebackers – Pepper Johnson
Defensive Backs – Eric Mangini
Coaching Assistant – Josh McDaniels

Special Teams Coaches

Special Teams – Brad Seely

Strength and Conditioning

Strength and Conditioning – Mike Woicik
Assistant Strength and Conditioning – Markus Paul

But, as "coaching assistant". Is that like coffee fetcher/waterboy? I think it is because I do see that in 2001, McDaniels was not on the coaching staff...but was BBs "personal assistant".

He did become the QB coach for the 2004 season.

crunchy

@the-gipper said:

I could surmise that without Brady, BB would be basically the same coach that he was in Cleveland. Playoff contender (at least occasionally)...not championship caliber.

Except that when Brady has been out they've gone 14-6, and that was with 3 rookie qbs completely new to the system. When Cassel played for them and they went 11-5 he hadn't started a game at QB since high school. Belichode went 11-5 with a high school qb. And when Brady came back the next year they went 10-6. It's always been Belichick.

Conversely, when the Colts lost Manning they went from 10-6 to 2-14. There's the difference between a qb who matters and a qb who doesn't.

The Gipper

@crunchy said:

Except that when Brady has been out they've gone 14-6, and that was with 3 rookie qbs completely new to the system. When Cassel played for them and they went 11-5 he hadn't started a game at QB since high school. Belichode went 11-5 with a high school qb. And when Brady came back the next year they went 10-6. It's always been Belichick.

Conversely, when the Colts lost Manning they went from 10-6 to 2-14. There's the difference between a qb who matters and a qb who doesn't.

Sure....like I said, he would have good teams, occasional playoff teams. Not championship teams.

He can coach a defense, and he can be a good HC. Brady made him a Champion.

Or...are you going to say: Well, even if Tom Brady leaves, the Pats coached by BB will still be the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl..or at least the AFC.

If so...then I would refer you to the words of that musical group from the Boston area who call themselves Aerosmith: Dream On.

mjp28

@crunchy said:

Except that when Brady has been out they've gone 14-6, and that was with 3 rookie qbs completely new to the system. When Cassel played for them and they went 11-5 he hadn't started a game at QB since high school. Belichode went 11-5 with a high school qb. And when Brady came back the next year they went 10-6. It's always been Belichick.

Conversely, when the Colts lost Manning they went from 10-6 to 2-14. There's the difference between a qb who matters and a qb who doesn't.

It's been a unique combination of Kraft Belichick Brady -and- a good overall team where all of the pieces fit, some with castoff players -plus- a well assembled staff.

In other words a true self sustaining dynasty and not be in or win one SB and then disappear. Can it continue, who knows for sure.

Just read some of the Boston area papers and online stuff.

WarriorsRpussies

@neo said:

Who cares what Baker would do. But I agree, no way Brady ever sets foot in Cleveland.

Wait Are you serious? This is a terrible take, like Ghoolie level bad. So you don't think pissing off a 24 year old Baker for a rapidly declining, 40 something Tom Brady is something we would not care about? Baker and his agent would immediately demand a trade ala Jay Cutler which what happened when Josh McDaniels was last a head coach.

MLD Woody

I don't think we want McDaniels. I don't think he's worth 1 season of the 43 year old version of the greatest NFL player ever.

The Gipper

@mld-woody said:

I don't think we want McDaniels. I don't think he's worth 1 season of the 43 year old version of the greatest NFL player ever.

I think McDaniels would like the opportunity to work with Mayfield.

And Jim Brown is still the greatest NFL player ever

Dutch Oven

@mld-woody said:

I don't think we want McDaniels. I don't think he's worth 1 season of the 43 year old version of the greatest NFL player ever.

I think the Haslams want him bad. Like PoG/Saquon bad.

The Gipper

@dutch-oven said:

I think the Haslams want him bad. Like PoG/Saquon bad.

I would say that with McDaniels, McCarthy, Saleh, Roman, Daboll, Meyer, Bienemy, Stefanski.......it ALL seems a crap shoot. Fair to say?

So, I guess, all things being equal, what the owner wants, the owner may get....and that may not be any worse of a choice than any of the others.

At least we know he can run a championship offense.....even if he may not have a guy considered the possible GOAT at his disposal. I could see, maybe a Joe Montana/Walsh parallel with he and Baker. At least, that is what I would want to see.

MDDawg

@adoug319 said:

Call me crazy, but Tony Romo hinted it and I’ve felt the same way. Josh McDaniels is a northeast Ohio guy, went to John Carroll. He’s been interested in coaching the Browns for years, we just never gave him an interview. Now we are, and according to sources the Haslams want him, so the job is his if he wants it.

You heard Romo, Brady isn’t done. But he’s done with the Patriots, and is an unrestricted free agent. What did Tony Romo day? He needs help... Hmmm two 1,000 yard receivers and two Top 5 running backs sounds like help to me.

McDaniels wanted Baker in the draft. In fact, he was lobbying to trade up to #2 in the 2018 draft if we didn’t take Baker. His offense is complex though, and Baker needs to mature.

In comes Tom Brady for one more year with McDaniels, while Baker learns the offense.

Call me crazy, just watch.

It also crossed my mind and wouldn't be surprised if that happens. Brady with these weapons gives us a legitimate chance at the SB ala Denver with Manning.

MLD Woody

@dutch-oven said:

I think the Haslams want him bad. Like PoG/Saquon bad.

Wow that's pretty bad.

calfoxwc

not seeing it. McDaniels would be a mistake of mistakes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McDaniels

"McDaniels's tenure with the Broncos was marred early on by a controversy involving an alleged trade offer from the Patriots involving the team's quarterback, Jay Cutler, which would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver. On March 9, 2009, according to ESPN, a conference call involving McDaniels, team owner Pat Bowlen and Cutler failed to resolve the issues. Cutler said he did not trust McDaniels and the organization following the trade controversy.^[12] On April 2, 2009, the Broncos traded Cutler and a 2009 fifth-round draft pick to the Chicago Bears for quarterback Kyle Orton, first- and third-round picks in 2009 and a first-round pick in 2010. "

2010 season

"Main article: 2010 Denver Broncos season

McDaniels' second season in Denver ended with a 3–9 record. The Broncos lost to the Kansas City Chiefs on December 5, and on the next day, McDaniels was fired by the Broncos."

Videotaping scandal

Further information: 2010 Denver Broncos season § Videotaping scandal

"On November 27, The Denver Post reported the Broncos were under investigation from the NFL, after it was reported that Steve Scarnecchia, the team's director of video operations hired by McDaniels in 2009, videotaped a San Francisco 49ers' walkthrough practice, during the teams' Week 8 game at Wembley Stadium in London, England.^[13]"

"The same day, the NFL fined the Broncos and McDaniels $50,000 each, and Scarnecchia was fired as a result of the incident. Scarnecchia told NFL investigators he acted alone and "knew it was wrong" to tape the walkthrough practice, after the rest of the Broncos' staff had left the stadium. Scarnecchia later presented McDaniels with the six-minute video, but McDaniels declined to view it, and it was not shown to any other Broncos staff member, and therefore the NFL determined the Broncos had not gained a competitive advantage from it. An anonymous source alerted the Broncos on November 8, who conducted an internal investigation before alerting the NFL. NFL Security then began its investigation, which included a forensic analysis of the computer from which the recording was later deleted by Scarnecchia.^[14] Both the NFL and the Broncos determined that McDaniels knew nothing about the incident.^[15]"

"However, the NFL fined McDaniels due to the fact that he did not immediately report the incident to the league office, as required by policy. The NFL also fined the Broncos, as "clubs are ultimately accountable for the conduct of their employees."^[14]"

"According to The Denver Post, the videotaping incident was a major factor in McDaniels' firing a week later; while the Broncos did not deem it something that merited being fired for cause, they considered his failure to report the incident "unforgivable."^[15]"

******************************************************************

and after what McDaniels did to the Colts... I wouldn't trust him for nothin.

Stephanski wins bigtime. Has to. No brainer.

Dutch Oven

I find it deliciously ironic that cal holds professional athletes and coaches to a high moral standard that his Captain BoneSpurs would laughably come short at.

The Gipper

@calfoxwc said:

not seeing it. McDaniels would be a mistake of mistakes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McDaniels

"McDaniels's tenure with the Broncos was marred early on by a controversy involving an alleged trade offer from the Patriots involving the team's quarterback, Jay Cutler, which would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver. On March 9, 2009, according to ESPN, a conference call involving McDaniels, team owner Pat Bowlen and Cutler failed to resolve the issues. Cutler said he did not trust McDaniels and the organization following the trade controversy.^[12] On April 2, 2009, the Broncos traded Cutler and a 2009 fifth-round draft pick to the Chicago Bears for quarterback Kyle Orton, first- and third-round picks in 2009 and a first-round pick in 2010. "

2010 season

"Main article: 2010 Denver Broncos season

McDaniels' second season in Denver ended with a 3–9 record. The Broncos lost to the Kansas City Chiefs on December 5, and on the next day, McDaniels was fired by the Broncos."

Videotaping scandal

Further information: 2010 Denver Broncos season § Videotaping scandal

"On November 27, The Denver Post reported the Broncos were under investigation from the NFL, after it was reported that Steve Scarnecchia, the team's director of video operations hired by McDaniels in 2009, videotaped a San Francisco 49ers' walkthrough practice, during the teams' Week 8 game at Wembley Stadium in London, England.^[13]"

"The same day, the NFL fined the Broncos and McDaniels $50,000 each, and Scarnecchia was fired as a result of the incident. Scarnecchia told NFL investigators he acted alone and "knew it was wrong" to tape the walkthrough practice, after the rest of the Broncos' staff had left the stadium. Scarnecchia later presented McDaniels with the six-minute video, but McDaniels declined to view it, and it was not shown to any other Broncos staff member, and therefore the NFL determined the Broncos had not gained a competitive advantage from it. An anonymous source alerted the Broncos on November 8, who conducted an internal investigation before alerting the NFL. NFL Security then began its investigation, which included a forensic analysis of the computer from which the recording was later deleted by Scarnecchia.^[14] Both the NFL and the Broncos determined that McDaniels knew nothing about the incident.^[15]"

"However, the NFL fined McDaniels due to the fact that he did not immediately report the incident to the league office, as required by policy. The NFL also fined the Broncos, as "clubs are ultimately accountable for the conduct of their employees."^[14]"

"According to The Denver Post, the videotaping incident was a major factor in McDaniels' firing a week later; while the Broncos did not deem it something that merited being fired for cause, they considered his failure to report the incident "unforgivable."^[15]"

******************************************************************

and after what McDaniels did to the Colts... I wouldn't trust him for nothin.

Stephanski wins bigtime. Has to. No brainer.

With that endorsement....between the two of them.....I am in favor of McDaniels. I mean, you are going somewhat on the fact that McDaniels wanted to trade Jay Cutler.....and that Cutler didn't "trust" McDaniel after that? Sorry, but that makes me favor McDaniel in that situation. As for the taping issue, its typical.....