Patriots Fallout
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And then, there's this..
https://www.pewterreport.com/odds-for-brady-to-play-on-bucs-released/
These are Sportsbetting’s top odds for Brady’s potential new team:
Cleveland Browns – 5/1
New England Patriots – 5/1
Las Vegas Raiders – 6/1
Dallas Cowboys – 7/1
Indianapolis Colts – 7/1
Los Angeles Chargers – 7/1
Tampa Bay Bucs – 9/1
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
In my opinion, to reference a 20 game sample to indicate that BB is THE reason that NE is great is asinine.
That year of Cassel, although a good record resulted in no playoffs.
14-6 is 70%. Respectable for sure, better than most.
249-75 including playoffs. Or .769. And if you want to go Regular season, that is 219-64. Which is .774. And that is 30-11 in the playoffs, which is a .732 in the playoffs, you know against the best teams in the league. Which is 3.2% higher record than without.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
In my opinion, to reference a 20 game sample to indicate that BB is THE reason that NE is great is asinine.
That year of Cassel, although a good record resulted in no playoffs.
14-6 is 70%. Respectable for sure, better than most.
249-75 including playoffs. Or .769. And if you want to go Regular season, that is 219-64. Which is .774. And that is 30-11 in the playoffs, which is a .732 in the playoffs, you know against the best teams in the league. Which is 3.2% higher record than without.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
I completely agree with you.
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And then, there's this..
https://www.pewterreport.com/odds-for-brady-to-play-on-bucs-released/
These are Sportsbetting’s top odds for Brady’s potential new team:
Cleveland Browns – 5/1
New England Patriots – 5/1
Las Vegas Raiders – 6/1
Dallas Cowboys – 7/1
Indianapolis Colts – 7/1
Los Angeles Chargers – 7/1
Tampa Bay Bucs – 9/1
And then, there's this..
https://www.pewterreport.com/odds-for-brady-to-play-on-bucs-released/
These are Sportsbetting’s top odds for Brady’s potential new team:
Cleveland Browns – 5/1
New England Patriots – 5/1
Las Vegas Raiders – 6/1
Dallas Cowboys – 7/1
Indianapolis Colts – 7/1
Los Angeles Chargers – 7/1
Tampa Bay Bucs – 9/1
They ARE now the Las Vegas Raiders. have to get used to that. But I think it is more like 1000 to 1 that Brady would end up here.
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I don't get it. Ogunjobi got suspended for a game for a shove of a player to the ground after a play was over.
Apples and oranges, cal... Ogun did it in the context of a fight when the refs were trying to gain control of an escalating situation.
The Wentz hit? I think it had a lot to do with the fact that Clowney was heading (no pun intended) in the same direction as Carson. In real time it did not look like a violent play. In slo-mo it looked more so... I expect Clowney will get a letter.
Apples and oranges, cal... Ogun did it in the context of a fight when the refs were trying to gain control of an escalating situation.
The Wentz hit? I think it had a lot to do with the fact that Clowney was heading (no pun intended) in the same direction as Carson. In real time it did not look like a violent play. In slo-mo it looked more so... I expect Clowney will get a letter.
got it, except, the nfl said the suspension was because Ogunjobi "might have re-escalated"...
and the other "could have escalated" into an all out brawl. But I get your point.
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In my opinion, to reference a 20 game sample to indicate that BB is THE reason that NE is great is asinine.
That year of Cassel, although a good record resulted in no playoffs.
14-6 is 70%. Respectable for sure, better than most.
249-75 including playoffs. Or .769. And if you want to go Regular season, that is 219-64. Which is .774. And that is 30-11 in the playoffs, which is a .732 in the playoffs, you know against the best teams in the league. Which is 3.2% higher record than without.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
There's no doubt that TB12 was a major factor in the sustained greatness of the Pats 20-year run. There were seasons where they just flat outscored people like 2007 when Tom threw 50 TDs, but there were also seasons when they won with strong D, a running game and Game Manager TB at QB, e.g., 2003 and 2016.
In fact there were more seasons where Tom QB'd a Top 5 Offense (11) than the Pats fielded a Top 5 D (8). And while of their 6 SB wins only one came when they were not top 5 on at least one side of the ball, two wins came with only a Top 5 Offense, one with only a Top 5 Defense and two with Top 5 on both sides.
Also interesting is that out of the 6 SB seasons Tom was PFR's top AV (Approximate Value) Patriot 3 times. The other three times the top AV was a defender... Troy Brown, Ty Law and Dont'a Hightower.
Bottom line: I don't think either has to take a backseat to the other... plenty of room up front.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Call me crazy, but Tony Romo hinted it and I’ve felt the same way. Josh McDaniels is a northeast Ohio guy, went to John Carroll. He’s been interested in coaching the Browns for years, we just never gave him an interview. Now we are, and according to sources the Haslams want him, so the job is his if he wants it.
You heard Romo, Brady isn’t done. But he’s done with the Patriots, and is an unrestricted free agent. What did Tony Romo day? He needs help... Hmmm two 1,000 yard receivers and two Top 5 running backs sounds like help to me.
McDaniels wanted Baker in the draft. In fact, he was lobbying to trade up to #2 in the 2018 draft if we didn’t take Baker. His offense is complex though, and Baker needs to mature.
In comes Tom Brady for one more year with McDaniels, while Baker learns the offense.
Call me crazy, just watch.
Call me crazy, but Tony Romo hinted it and I’ve felt the same way. Josh McDaniels is a northeast Ohio guy, went to John Carroll.
his offense is complex though, and Baker needs to mature.
You're not crazy, and yes Baker needs to mature....mature meaning stop saying stupid stuff at the microphone.
Some would argue McDaniels needs to mature as well. His stint in Denver didn't go well.
However, although I wanted Josh Allen, I do believe Baker has the tools to be a winner. Throw in McDaniels, hey maybe he cultivates it to the top.
The key to me is does McDaniels have a Defensive Coordinator in mind, that will attack? Our offense should be an easy fix, defense, well not so much.
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Call me crazy, but Tony Romo hinted it and I’ve felt the same way. Josh McDaniels is a northeast Ohio guy, went to John Carroll.
his offense is complex though, and Baker needs to mature.
You're not crazy, and yes Baker needs to mature....mature meaning stop saying stupid stuff at the microphone.
Some would argue McDaniels needs to mature as well. His stint in Denver didn't go well.
However, although I wanted Josh Allen, I do believe Baker has the tools to be a winner. Throw in McDaniels, hey maybe he cultivates it to the top.
The key to me is does McDaniels have a Defensive Coordinator in mind, that will attack? Our offense should be an easy fix, defense, well not so much.
You're not crazy, and yes Baker needs to mature....mature meaning stop saying stupid stuff at the microphone.
Some would argue McDaniels needs to mature as well. His stint in Denver didn't go well.
However, although I wanted Josh Allen, I do believe Baker has the tools to be a winner. Throw in McDaniels, hey maybe he cultivates it to the top.
The key to me is does McDaniels have a Defensive Coordinator in mind, that will attack? Our offense should be an easy fix, defense, well not so much.
We can be sure it wont be Mike Nolan LOL
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Because they're not actually good,
Just copied the part you got right...
Individually they are not talented, but as a unit the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts.
Every OL who engages a defender without throwing on them holds on every play... it's just a matter of whether they do it right. And right is defined by two things:
- Their hands are inside the frame of the defender, and
- The instant the defender tries to pull away they let go.
The second is the hardest thing to teach, but if you emphasize it in every practice and each individual learns that either one of his fellow OL will be there to cover for him, then they learn. Just need the right teacher.... and that's where Scarnecci comes in.
During his brief retirement Offensive Holding calls more than doubled. League average is around 23 per team per season and varies very little season to season. Pats had 30 in 2016 tying then for 3rd most (so much for conspiracy theories)... just finished with a 2nd best 13 this season.
Just copied the part you got right...
Individually they are not talented, but as a unit the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts.
Every OL who engages a defender without throwing on them holds on every play... it's just a matter of whether they do it right. And right is defined by two things:
- Their hands are inside the frame of the defender, and
- The instant the defender tries to pull away they let go.
The second is the hardest thing to teach, but if you emphasize it in every practice and each individual learns that either one of his fellow OL will be there to cover for him, then they learn. Just need the right teacher.... and that's where Scarnecci comes in.
During his brief retirement Offensive Holding calls more than doubled. League average is around 23 per team per season and varies very little season to season. Pats had 30 in 2016 tying then for 3rd most (so much for conspiracy theories)... just finished with a 2nd best 13 this season.
3 things:
A: All NFL o-linemen know how to block properly and every NFL o-line coach knows how to teach that most basic o-line skill. To suggest that only Scarnecchia does is silly.
B: 2016 was the only season from 2009 when the Pats were anywhere close to the top of the league in offensive holding. Picking one season out of 12 doesn't disprove they don't get away with holding a lot. Also, 2016 was the year Scarnecchia returned, so there goes that theory that he's some sort of master blocking teacher.
?C-The stat doesn't tell us if it's o-linemen holding or someone further down the field. The Pats run a ton of screens, quick outs, and dump offs and their skill players get called for holding too. Also, the number of holding calls don't tell us how many more were MISSED or just not called.
I stand by my previous statement, the Pats o-line gets away with a ton of holding.
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In my opinion, to reference a 20 game sample to indicate that BB is THE reason that NE is great is asinine.
That year of Cassel, although a good record resulted in no playoffs.
14-6 is 70%. Respectable for sure, better than most.
249-75 including playoffs. Or .769. And if you want to go Regular season, that is 219-64. Which is .774. And that is 30-11 in the playoffs, which is a .732 in the playoffs, you know against the best teams in the league. Which is 3.2% higher record than without.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
In my opinion, to reference a 20 game sample to indicate that BB is THE reason that NE is great is asinine.
That year of Cassel, although a good record resulted in no playoffs.
14-6 is 70%. Respectable for sure, better than most.
249-75 including playoffs. Or .769. And if you want to go Regular season, that is 219-64. Which is .774. And that is 30-11 in the playoffs, which is a .732 in the playoffs, you know against the best teams in the league. Which is 3.2% higher record than without.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
20 games is a significant sample size considering a season is only 16 games. People always say 'they didn't make the playoffs' but that was a statistical fluke. They're the only 11-5 team to miss since the playoffs went to 6 teams in 1990.
When Brady came back the next year they won 1 LESS game and MADE the playoffs.
According to the math the Patriots have won 7% more with Brady than a random replacement. And these were all ROOKIE replacements. Brady is only worth 7% more than a random rookie replacement? And this is with him having the benefit of years and years of experience playing with the team and the same coach and system the whole time while the rookies came in cold. That makes it way more favorable for Brady and he still does only 7% better. You made my case for me!
For contrast, the Colts with Manning won 68% and the year without him won 14%. You may think Brady is a good qb but to credit him for team success over Belichick simply isn't born out by the facts.
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Just copied the part you got right...
Individually they are not talented, but as a unit the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts.
Every OL who engages a defender without throwing on them holds on every play... it's just a matter of whether they do it right. And right is defined by two things:
- Their hands are inside the frame of the defender, and
- The instant the defender tries to pull away they let go.
The second is the hardest thing to teach, but if you emphasize it in every practice and each individual learns that either one of his fellow OL will be there to cover for him, then they learn. Just need the right teacher.... and that's where Scarnecci comes in.
During his brief retirement Offensive Holding calls more than doubled. League average is around 23 per team per season and varies very little season to season. Pats had 30 in 2016 tying then for 3rd most (so much for conspiracy theories)... just finished with a 2nd best 13 this season.
3 things:
A: All NFL o-linemen know how to block properly and every NFL o-line coach knows how to teach that most basic o-line skill. To suggest that only Scarnecchia does is silly.
B: 2016 was the only season from 2009 when the Pats were anywhere close to the top of the league in offensive holding. Picking one season out of 12 doesn't disprove they don't get away with holding a lot. Also, 2016 was the year Scarnecchia returned, so there goes that theory that he's some sort of master blocking teacher.
?C-The stat doesn't tell us if it's o-linemen holding or someone further down the field. The Pats run a ton of screens, quick outs, and dump offs and their skill players get called for holding too. Also, the number of holding calls don't tell us how many more were MISSED or just not called.
I stand by my previous statement, the Pats o-line gets away with a ton of holding.
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Except that when Brady has been out they've gone 14-6, and that was with 3 rookie qbs completely new to the system. When Cassel played for them and they went 11-5 he hadn't started a game at QB since high school. Belichode went 11-5 with a high school qb. And when Brady came back the next year they went 10-6. It's always been Belichick.
Conversely, when the Colts lost Manning they went from 10-6 to 2-14. There's the difference between a qb who matters and a qb who doesn't.
Sure....like I said, he would have good teams, occasional playoff teams. Not championship teams.
He can coach a defense, and he can be a good HC. Brady made him a Champion.
Or...are you going to say: Well, even if Tom Brady leaves, the Pats coached by BB will still be the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl..or at least the AFC.
If so...then I would refer you to the words of that musical group from the Boston area who call themselves Aerosmith: Dream On.
Sure....like I said, he would have good teams, occasional playoff teams. Not championship teams.
He can coach a defense, and he can be a good HC. Brady made him a Champion.
Or...are you going to say: Well, even if Tom Brady leaves, the Pats coached by BB will still be the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl..or at least the AFC.
If so...then I would refer you to the words of that musical group from the Boston area who call themselves Aerosmith: Dream On.
They wouldn't be the odds on SB favorite because a lot of people think Brady was really important,. But I bet Belichick would win another without Brady and it wouldn't take too long. He's been waiting forever for Brady to go so he can prove he's the reason they win so much. The only reason Brady has been there the last few seasons is Kraft taking a break from handos to force Belichick to trade Jimmy and keep Brady. Brady didn't put Belichick over the top, Belichick carried Brady to a career his talent doesn't deserve in the least. No arm strength, no improvisational skill, no downfield accuracy. He's good at one thing: doing whatever Bill says, exactly how he says it.
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Sure....like I said, he would have good teams, occasional playoff teams. Not championship teams.
He can coach a defense, and he can be a good HC. Brady made him a Champion.
Or...are you going to say: Well, even if Tom Brady leaves, the Pats coached by BB will still be the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl..or at least the AFC.
If so...then I would refer you to the words of that musical group from the Boston area who call themselves Aerosmith: Dream On.
They wouldn't be the odds on SB favorite because a lot of people think Brady was really important,. But I bet Belichick would win another without Brady and it wouldn't take too long. He's been waiting forever for Brady to go so he can prove he's the reason they win so much. The only reason Brady has been there the last few seasons is Kraft taking a break from handos to force Belichick to trade Jimmy and keep Brady. Brady didn't put Belichick over the top, Belichick carried Brady to a career his talent doesn't deserve in the least. No arm strength, no improvisational skill, no downfield accuracy. He's good at one thing: doing whatever Bill says, exactly how he says it.
They wouldn't be the odds on SB favorite because a lot of people think Brady was really important,. But I bet Belichick would win another without Brady and it wouldn't take too long.
Well, I would bet you you are wrong.
He's been waiting forever for Brady to go so he can prove he's the reason they win so much.
He should not be so anxious because it would prove that it was Brady was the straw that stirred the dring.
The only reason Brady has been there the last few seasons is Kraft taking a break from handos to force Belichick to trade Jimmy and keep Brady. Brady didn't put Belichick over the top, Belichick carried Brady to a career his talent doesn't deserve in the least.
You've got Cap'n Crunch for brains if you believe that.
No arm strength, no improvisational skill, no downfield accuracy. He's good at one thing: doing whatever Bill says, exactly how he says it.
Cap' crunch without the crunch. Just a brain full of mush then.
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Total NFL regular season penalty stats 2019
The team that had OH called on them the most, jacksonville, received this call under twice per game out of just under 64 offensive plays per game.
That's... not many.
Neither the Pats [nor anyone else] "Get Away With" anything. There is no documentation of the rate of any team's uncalled penalties... because they're not called. The rate of the Patriots' uncalled penalties is not higher than the rate of any other team's uncalled penalties.. because there's no proof that it is higher.
It may feel good to believe Patriots Conspiracies, but that doesn't mean they're actually a thing.
If Brady's fantasy nutritionist gets together with the Patriots' fantasy holding non-calls, Cleveland wins a Super Bowl in 2020!
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And as far as Baker goes...
If he couldn't accept the GOAT starting ahead of him, then that's on him.
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In my opinion, to reference a 20 game sample to indicate that BB is THE reason that NE is great is asinine.
That year of Cassel, although a good record resulted in no playoffs.
14-6 is 70%. Respectable for sure, better than most.
249-75 including playoffs. Or .769. And if you want to go Regular season, that is 219-64. Which is .774. And that is 30-11 in the playoffs, which is a .732 in the playoffs, you know against the best teams in the league. Which is 3.2% higher record than without.
To say TB12 isn't/wasn't a big reason for the Patriots success is ridiculous. Brady has more than TWICE the number of playoff wins than ANY quarterback not named Montana. And Joe is 1 win above above twice.
20 games is a significant sample size considering a season is only 16 games. People always say 'they didn't make the playoffs' but that was a statistical fluke. They're the only 11-5 team to miss since the playoffs went to 6 teams in 1990.
When Brady came back the next year they won 1 LESS game and MADE the playoffs.
According to the math the Patriots have won 7% more with Brady than a random replacement. And these were all ROOKIE replacements. Brady is only worth 7% more than a random rookie replacement? And this is with him having the benefit of years and years of experience playing with the team and the same coach and system the whole time while the rookies came in cold. That makes it way more favorable for Brady and he still does only 7% better. You made my case for me!
For contrast, the Colts with Manning won 68% and the year without him won 14%. You may think Brady is a good qb but to credit him for team success over Belichick simply isn't born out by the facts.
20 games is a significant sample size considering a season is only 16 games. People always say 'they didn't make the playoffs' but that was a statistical fluke. They're the only 11-5 team to miss since the playoffs went to 6 teams in 1990.
When Brady came back the next year they won 1 LESS game and MADE the playoffs.
According to the math the Patriots have won 7% more with Brady than a random replacement. And these were all ROOKIE replacements. Brady is only worth 7% more than a random rookie replacement? And this is with him having the benefit of years and years of experience playing with the team and the same coach and system the whole time while the rookies came in cold. That makes it way more favorable for Brady and he still does only 7% better. You made my case for me!
For contrast, the Colts with Manning won 68% and the year without him won 14%. You may think Brady is a good qb but to credit him for team success over Belichick simply isn't born out by the facts.
If you are going to try and prove a point or call someone out, try to use facts and not lies.
2008: Brady was credited with that 1st win as the starter, so Cassel was 10-5. But Matt was drafted in 2005, so he was NOT A ROOKIE.
The 4 game suspension was in 2016, 2 games by Jimmy G and 2 by Jacoby Brissett
Jimmy G: was drafted in 2014, again NOT A ROOKIE.
Jacoby B: was a rookie
That leaves the last game that was in 2001, and the other QB was Drew Bledsoe who TB12 replaced as the starter, so he obviously wasn't a rookie. So that makes 2 out of 20 games. A whopping 90% were NOT ROOKIES.
Secondly, nobody EVER said that BB had nothing to do with it, but you are saying that BB made TB12. Statistics show that to be completely false. As BB has a sub .500 record when not utilizing TB12.
And using the year without Manning is trying to skew the narrative, as you know just as well as others that they were tanking. And it also doesn't correlate to the situation in NE. I can come up with countless examples of things like that which could indicate that a subpar player is "better" than a great player based solely on the use of 1 statistical data point. By one prime example, is by data that Emmitt Smith was basically the ENTIRE reason why Aikman won games, since Troy went 0-11 without Emmitt his rookie year.
And though it wasn't in reply to me, you also are referencing BB making TB12 according to his "talent". Again BB entire record without TB is sub .500 so that argument doesn't hold water. For you argument to work, then he should have been able to take Bledsoe to GOAT with more talent. Or any of the other countless QBs hes had. Not even to mention that BB is a DEFENSIVE guy. Or are you trying to assert that BB is the end all be all and he coaches everyone individually.
As for saying it wasn't a big enough sample size, it really isn't. It doesn't show if he could have SUSTAINED success without TB12. History shows that he couldn't.
Since that day that BB wanted to move on with Jimmy, TB has won 2 SB, been to another where he threw for 505 yards, scored the most points ever for a SB loser (35).
I suspect that you are just trolling or just hate Brady that much.
The truth of the matter is that even with the past evidence of BB failures without TB12, that BOTH deserve a lot of credit. And if BB wants to prove that he can win one without TB and vice versa, what does it say if NEITHER win 1 without the other? Does that mean that someone else was responsible for the dynasty?
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20 games is a significant sample size considering a season is only 16 games. People always say 'they didn't make the playoffs' but that was a statistical fluke. They're the only 11-5 team to miss since the playoffs went to 6 teams in 1990.
When Brady came back the next year they won 1 LESS game and MADE the playoffs.
According to the math the Patriots have won 7% more with Brady than a random replacement. And these were all ROOKIE replacements. Brady is only worth 7% more than a random rookie replacement? And this is with him having the benefit of years and years of experience playing with the team and the same coach and system the whole time while the rookies came in cold. That makes it way more favorable for Brady and he still does only 7% better. You made my case for me!
For contrast, the Colts with Manning won 68% and the year without him won 14%. You may think Brady is a good qb but to credit him for team success over Belichick simply isn't born out by the facts.
If you are going to try and prove a point or call someone out, try to use facts and not lies.
2008: Brady was credited with that 1st win as the starter, so Cassel was 10-5. But Matt was drafted in 2005, so he was NOT A ROOKIE.
The 4 game suspension was in 2016, 2 games by Jimmy G and 2 by Jacoby Brissett
Jimmy G: was drafted in 2014, again NOT A ROOKIE.
Jacoby B: was a rookie
That leaves the last game that was in 2001, and the other QB was Drew Bledsoe who TB12 replaced as the starter, so he obviously wasn't a rookie. So that makes 2 out of 20 games. A whopping 90% were NOT ROOKIES.
Secondly, nobody EVER said that BB had nothing to do with it, but you are saying that BB made TB12. Statistics show that to be completely false. As BB has a sub .500 record when not utilizing TB12.
And using the year without Manning is trying to skew the narrative, as you know just as well as others that they were tanking. And it also doesn't correlate to the situation in NE. I can come up with countless examples of things like that which could indicate that a subpar player is "better" than a great player based solely on the use of 1 statistical data point. By one prime example, is by data that Emmitt Smith was basically the ENTIRE reason why Aikman won games, since Troy went 0-11 without Emmitt his rookie year.
And though it wasn't in reply to me, you also are referencing BB making TB12 according to his "talent". Again BB entire record without TB is sub .500 so that argument doesn't hold water. For you argument to work, then he should have been able to take Bledsoe to GOAT with more talent. Or any of the other countless QBs hes had. Not even to mention that BB is a DEFENSIVE guy. Or are you trying to assert that BB is the end all be all and he coaches everyone individually.
As for saying it wasn't a big enough sample size, it really isn't. It doesn't show if he could have SUSTAINED success without TB12. History shows that he couldn't.
Since that day that BB wanted to move on with Jimmy, TB has won 2 SB, been to another where he threw for 505 yards, scored the most points ever for a SB loser (35).
I suspect that you are just trolling or just hate Brady that much.
The truth of the matter is that even with the past evidence of BB failures without TB12, that BOTH deserve a lot of credit. And if BB wants to prove that he can win one without TB and vice versa, what does it say if NEITHER win 1 without the other? Does that mean that someone else was responsible for the dynasty?
If you are going to try and prove a point or call someone out, try to use facts and not lies.
2008: Brady was credited with that 1st win as the starter, so Cassel was 10-5. But Matt was drafted in 2005, so he was NOT A ROOKIE.
The 4 game suspension was in 2016, 2 games by Jimmy G and 2 by Jacoby Brissett
Jimmy G: was drafted in 2014, again NOT A ROOKIE.
Jacoby B: was a rookie
That leaves the last game that was in 2001, and the other QB was Drew Bledsoe who TB12 replaced as the starter, so he obviously wasn't a rookie. So that makes 2 out of 20 games. A whopping 90% were NOT ROOKIES.
Secondly, nobody EVER said that BB had nothing to do with it, but you are saying that BB made TB12. Statistics show that to be completely false. As BB has a sub .500 record when not utilizing TB12.
And using the year without Manning is trying to skew the narrative, as you know just as well as others that they were tanking. And it also doesn't correlate to the situation in NE. I can come up with countless examples of things like that which could indicate that a subpar player is "better" than a great player based solely on the use of 1 statistical data point. By one prime example, is by data that Emmitt Smith was basically the ENTIRE reason why Aikman won games, since Troy went 0-11 without Emmitt his rookie year.
And though it wasn't in reply to me, you also are referencing BB making TB12 according to his "talent". Again BB entire record without TB is sub .500 so that argument doesn't hold water. For you argument to work, then he should have been able to take Bledsoe to GOAT with more talent. Or any of the other countless QBs hes had. Not even to mention that BB is a DEFENSIVE guy. Or are you trying to assert that BB is the end all be all and he coaches everyone individually.
As for saying it wasn't a big enough sample size, it really isn't. It doesn't show if he could have SUSTAINED success without TB12. History shows that he couldn't.
Since that day that BB wanted to move on with Jimmy, TB has won 2 SB, been to another where he threw for 505 yards, scored the most points ever for a SB loser (35).
I suspect that you are just trolling or just hate Brady that much.
The truth of the matter is that even with the past evidence of BB failures without TB12, that BOTH deserve a lot of credit. And if BB wants to prove that he can win one without TB and vice versa, what does it say if NEITHER win 1 without the other? Does that mean that someone else was responsible for the dynasty?
You're right, Cassel and Jimmy weren't actually rookies, I was wrong about that.
Cassel was still starting his first game at QB since high school and went 11-5. Brady was hurt in the 1st quarter, he clearly didn't win them that game.
Even though they weren't rookies, they were all 1st time NFL starters, and Cassel never even started in college at QB. And the team only won 7% less. Brady's not that important to the team's success.
To say the Colts were tanking only helps my argument. That means that Manning was so important to the team they knew they had no chance without him and scuttled their whole season. The Pats knew Brady wasn't that important to them and kept trying to win, and they had a great record.
As for BB having a sub-500 record without Brady, that's because he never won anything before he started filming in 2001. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Brady OR BB are any good. BB started winning when he started cheating, that's already been proven. Brady is just along for the ride. All the players on the Pats are successful because they all benefit from BB's cheating. Brady just gets the most credit because he's the QB and been there the whole time.
So yes, someone else was responsible for the dynasty. That would be the cheating.
And no, I'm not trolling, I really believe this. Imagine that BB was caught cheating and proved to be a fraud, by filming and stealing playsheets. Wait, that already happened in 2007. And they let him stay in the league because to invalidate his wins would erode public trust in the league, which would cost them money. It would mean the owners had overseen a fraudlent organization.
I don't hate Brady, he's just the beneficiary of BB's cheating. I do hate BB for cheating.
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If you are going to try and prove a point or call someone out, try to use facts and not lies.
2008: Brady was credited with that 1st win as the starter, so Cassel was 10-5. But Matt was drafted in 2005, so he was NOT A ROOKIE.
The 4 game suspension was in 2016, 2 games by Jimmy G and 2 by Jacoby Brissett
Jimmy G: was drafted in 2014, again NOT A ROOKIE.
Jacoby B: was a rookie
That leaves the last game that was in 2001, and the other QB was Drew Bledsoe who TB12 replaced as the starter, so he obviously wasn't a rookie. So that makes 2 out of 20 games. A whopping 90% were NOT ROOKIES.
Secondly, nobody EVER said that BB had nothing to do with it, but you are saying that BB made TB12. Statistics show that to be completely false. As BB has a sub .500 record when not utilizing TB12.
And using the year without Manning is trying to skew the narrative, as you know just as well as others that they were tanking. And it also doesn't correlate to the situation in NE. I can come up with countless examples of things like that which could indicate that a subpar player is "better" than a great player based solely on the use of 1 statistical data point. By one prime example, is by data that Emmitt Smith was basically the ENTIRE reason why Aikman won games, since Troy went 0-11 without Emmitt his rookie year.
And though it wasn't in reply to me, you also are referencing BB making TB12 according to his "talent". Again BB entire record without TB is sub .500 so that argument doesn't hold water. For you argument to work, then he should have been able to take Bledsoe to GOAT with more talent. Or any of the other countless QBs hes had. Not even to mention that BB is a DEFENSIVE guy. Or are you trying to assert that BB is the end all be all and he coaches everyone individually.
As for saying it wasn't a big enough sample size, it really isn't. It doesn't show if he could have SUSTAINED success without TB12. History shows that he couldn't.
Since that day that BB wanted to move on with Jimmy, TB has won 2 SB, been to another where he threw for 505 yards, scored the most points ever for a SB loser (35).
I suspect that you are just trolling or just hate Brady that much.
The truth of the matter is that even with the past evidence of BB failures without TB12, that BOTH deserve a lot of credit. And if BB wants to prove that he can win one without TB and vice versa, what does it say if NEITHER win 1 without the other? Does that mean that someone else was responsible for the dynasty?
You're right, Cassel and Jimmy weren't actually rookies, I was wrong about that.
Cassel was still starting his first game at QB since high school and went 11-5. Brady was hurt in the 1st quarter, he clearly didn't win them that game.
Even though they weren't rookies, they were all 1st time NFL starters, and Cassel never even started in college at QB. And the team only won 7% less. Brady's not that important to the team's success.
To say the Colts were tanking only helps my argument. That means that Manning was so important to the team they knew they had no chance without him and scuttled their whole season. The Pats knew Brady wasn't that important to them and kept trying to win, and they had a great record.
As for BB having a sub-500 record without Brady, that's because he never won anything before he started filming in 2001. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Brady OR BB are any good. BB started winning when he started cheating, that's already been proven. Brady is just along for the ride. All the players on the Pats are successful because they all benefit from BB's cheating. Brady just gets the most credit because he's the QB and been there the whole time.
So yes, someone else was responsible for the dynasty. That would be the cheating.
And no, I'm not trolling, I really believe this. Imagine that BB was caught cheating and proved to be a fraud, by filming and stealing playsheets. Wait, that already happened in 2007. And they let him stay in the league because to invalidate his wins would erode public trust in the league, which would cost them money. It would mean the owners had overseen a fraudlent organization.
I don't hate Brady, he's just the beneficiary of BB's cheating. I do hate BB for cheating.
You're right, Cassel and Jimmy weren't actually rookies, I was wrong about that.
Cassel was still starting his first game at QB since high school and went 11-5. Brady was hurt in the 1st quarter, he clearly didn't win them that game.
Even though they weren't rookies, they were all 1st time NFL starters, and Cassel never even started in college at QB. And the team only won 7% less. Brady's not that important to the team's success.
To say the Colts were tanking only helps my argument. That means that Manning was so important to the team they knew they had no chance without him and scuttled their whole season. The Pats knew Brady wasn't that important to them and kept trying to win, and they had a great record.
As for BB having a sub-500 record without Brady, that's because he never won anything before he started filming in 2001. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Brady OR BB are any good. BB started winning when he started cheating, that's already been proven. Brady is just along for the ride. All the players on the Pats are successful because they all benefit from BB's cheating. Brady just gets the most credit because he's the QB and been there the whole time.
So yes, someone else was responsible for the dynasty. That would be the cheating.
And no, I'm not trolling, I really believe this. Imagine that BB was caught cheating and proved to be a fraud, by filming and stealing playsheets. Wait, that already happened in 2007. And they let him stay in the league because to invalidate his wins would erode public trust in the league, which would cost them money. It would mean the owners had overseen a fraudlent organization.
I don't hate Brady, he's just the beneficiary of BB's cheating. I do hate BB for cheating.
Actually you just proved an opposite point. When the Colts tanked, it obviously wasn't because of how important Peyton was, as he never played another snap for Colts. They tanked for LUCK.
Yes, they were making their 1st starts, but all but Jacoby had been in the system for years. So them being aloof about it has no validity.
So your premise is that BB has been cheating since he started winning, even after being caught and having more of an eye on him? And I guess you are of the mindset that Patriots are the only ones "cheating"?
How did they cheat down 28-3? Or why didn't the cheating work against the Eagles? Or why didn't he cheat to best the lowly Dolphins with a BYE on the line? Or better yet on Browns topic, did BB cheat the 1 year he had a good record in Cleveland?
But let's go with this premise of the 7%. How do you know that is sustainable? And yes 20 games is a large sample size of games, but in comparison its 6% of the games played by TB12. Which is less than the 7% you want to use to make a point. As for Brady being the reason they won that game/etc., he was the starter so he is credited with that win. As for the 10-5 record of Cassel, here is the teams they beat (Jets: 4-12; 49ers: 5-11; Broncos: 7-9; Rams: 2-14; Bills: 7-9 (2); Dolphins: 11-5; Seahawks: 4-12; Raiders: 4-12; Cardinals: 9-7)
And just the previous season (with close to same roster) TB had went 16-0, the offense scored 589 points, had a +315 in point differential, Brady threw 4806 yards 50 TDs, Moss had 23 TD.
The next year, 11-5, 410 points, a point differential of 101, Cassel 3693 yards 21 TDs, Moss 11 TDs.
So using the example you used (Cassel 2008) and compared to Brady the year before: Brady +6 (or even use 5 as Cassel "winning" game 1) wins, Brady +1113 yards (about 70 yards a game), Brady +29 TDs (1.8 TDs more), and Patriots (+11.2 PPG, and +13.4 margin).
Sure seems that the Patriots missed TB12 that year.
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You're right, Cassel and Jimmy weren't actually rookies, I was wrong about that.
Cassel was still starting his first game at QB since high school and went 11-5. Brady was hurt in the 1st quarter, he clearly didn't win them that game.
Even though they weren't rookies, they were all 1st time NFL starters, and Cassel never even started in college at QB. And the team only won 7% less. Brady's not that important to the team's success.
To say the Colts were tanking only helps my argument. That means that Manning was so important to the team they knew they had no chance without him and scuttled their whole season. The Pats knew Brady wasn't that important to them and kept trying to win, and they had a great record.
As for BB having a sub-500 record without Brady, that's because he never won anything before he started filming in 2001. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Brady OR BB are any good. BB started winning when he started cheating, that's already been proven. Brady is just along for the ride. All the players on the Pats are successful because they all benefit from BB's cheating. Brady just gets the most credit because he's the QB and been there the whole time.
So yes, someone else was responsible for the dynasty. That would be the cheating.
And no, I'm not trolling, I really believe this. Imagine that BB was caught cheating and proved to be a fraud, by filming and stealing playsheets. Wait, that already happened in 2007. And they let him stay in the league because to invalidate his wins would erode public trust in the league, which would cost them money. It would mean the owners had overseen a fraudlent organization.
I don't hate Brady, he's just the beneficiary of BB's cheating. I do hate BB for cheating.
Actually you just proved an opposite point. When the Colts tanked, it obviously wasn't because of how important Peyton was, as he never played another snap for Colts. They tanked for LUCK.
Yes, they were making their 1st starts, but all but Jacoby had been in the system for years. So them being aloof about it has no validity.
So your premise is that BB has been cheating since he started winning, even after being caught and having more of an eye on him? And I guess you are of the mindset that Patriots are the only ones "cheating"?
How did they cheat down 28-3? Or why didn't the cheating work against the Eagles? Or why didn't he cheat to best the lowly Dolphins with a BYE on the line? Or better yet on Browns topic, did BB cheat the 1 year he had a good record in Cleveland?
But let's go with this premise of the 7%. How do you know that is sustainable? And yes 20 games is a large sample size of games, but in comparison its 6% of the games played by TB12. Which is less than the 7% you want to use to make a point. As for Brady being the reason they won that game/etc., he was the starter so he is credited with that win. As for the 10-5 record of Cassel, here is the teams they beat (Jets: 4-12; 49ers: 5-11; Broncos: 7-9; Rams: 2-14; Bills: 7-9 (2); Dolphins: 11-5; Seahawks: 4-12; Raiders: 4-12; Cardinals: 9-7)
And just the previous season (with close to same roster) TB had went 16-0, the offense scored 589 points, had a +315 in point differential, Brady threw 4806 yards 50 TDs, Moss had 23 TD.
The next year, 11-5, 410 points, a point differential of 101, Cassel 3693 yards 21 TDs, Moss 11 TDs.
So using the example you used (Cassel 2008) and compared to Brady the year before: Brady +6 (or even use 5 as Cassel "winning" game 1) wins, Brady +1113 yards (about 70 yards a game), Brady +29 TDs (1.8 TDs more), and Patriots (+11.2 PPG, and +13.4 margin).
Sure seems that the Patriots missed TB12 that year.
Actually you just proved an opposite point. When the Colts tanked, it obviously wasn't because of how important Peyton was, as he never played another snap for Colts. They tanked for LUCK.
Yes, they were making their 1st starts, but all but Jacoby had been in the system for years. So them being aloof about it has no validity.
So your premise is that BB has been cheating since he started winning, even after being caught and having more of an eye on him? And I guess you are of the mindset that Patriots are the only ones "cheating"?
How did they cheat down 28-3? Or why didn't the cheating work against the Eagles? Or why didn't he cheat to best the lowly Dolphins with a BYE on the line? Or better yet on Browns topic, did BB cheat the 1 year he had a good record in Cleveland?
But let's go with this premise of the 7%. How do you know that is sustainable? And yes 20 games is a large sample size of games, but in comparison its 6% of the games played by TB12. Which is less than the 7% you want to use to make a point. As for Brady being the reason they won that game/etc., he was the starter so he is credited with that win. As for the 10-5 record of Cassel, here is the teams they beat (Jets: 4-12; 49ers: 5-11; Broncos: 7-9; Rams: 2-14; Bills: 7-9 (2); Dolphins: 11-5; Seahawks: 4-12; Raiders: 4-12; Cardinals: 9-7)
And just the previous season (with close to same roster) TB had went 16-0, the offense scored 589 points, had a +315 in point differential, Brady threw 4806 yards 50 TDs, Moss had 23 TD.
The next year, 11-5, 410 points, a point differential of 101, Cassel 3693 yards 21 TDs, Moss 11 TDs.
So using the example you used (Cassel 2008) and compared to Brady the year before: Brady +6 (or even use 5 as Cassel "winning" game 1) wins, Brady +1113 yards (about 70 yards a game), Brady +29 TDs (1.8 TDs more), and Patriots (+11.2 PPG, and +13.4 margin).
Sure seems that the Patriots missed TB12 that year.
I don't think we're going to convince each other, I guess we'll have to see what happens when Brady finally leaves. If I'm right, as long as BB is still the coach they'll be a SB contender.
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Actually you just proved an opposite point. When the Colts tanked, it obviously wasn't because of how important Peyton was, as he never played another snap for Colts. They tanked for LUCK.
Yes, they were making their 1st starts, but all but Jacoby had been in the system for years. So them being aloof about it has no validity.
So your premise is that BB has been cheating since he started winning, even after being caught and having more of an eye on him? And I guess you are of the mindset that Patriots are the only ones "cheating"?
How did they cheat down 28-3? Or why didn't the cheating work against the Eagles? Or why didn't he cheat to best the lowly Dolphins with a BYE on the line? Or better yet on Browns topic, did BB cheat the 1 year he had a good record in Cleveland?
But let's go with this premise of the 7%. How do you know that is sustainable? And yes 20 games is a large sample size of games, but in comparison its 6% of the games played by TB12. Which is less than the 7% you want to use to make a point. As for Brady being the reason they won that game/etc., he was the starter so he is credited with that win. As for the 10-5 record of Cassel, here is the teams they beat (Jets: 4-12; 49ers: 5-11; Broncos: 7-9; Rams: 2-14; Bills: 7-9 (2); Dolphins: 11-5; Seahawks: 4-12; Raiders: 4-12; Cardinals: 9-7)
And just the previous season (with close to same roster) TB had went 16-0, the offense scored 589 points, had a +315 in point differential, Brady threw 4806 yards 50 TDs, Moss had 23 TD.
The next year, 11-5, 410 points, a point differential of 101, Cassel 3693 yards 21 TDs, Moss 11 TDs.
So using the example you used (Cassel 2008) and compared to Brady the year before: Brady +6 (or even use 5 as Cassel "winning" game 1) wins, Brady +1113 yards (about 70 yards a game), Brady +29 TDs (1.8 TDs more), and Patriots (+11.2 PPG, and +13.4 margin).
Sure seems that the Patriots missed TB12 that year.
I don't think we're going to convince each other, I guess we'll have to see what happens when Brady finally leaves. If I'm right, as long as BB is still the coach they'll be a SB contender.
I don't think we're going to convince each other, I guess we'll have to see what happens when Brady finally leaves. If I'm right, as long as BB is still the coach they'll be a SB contender.
You won't be right.
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Actually you just proved an opposite point. When the Colts tanked, it obviously wasn't because of how important Peyton was, as he never played another snap for Colts. They tanked for LUCK.
Yes, they were making their 1st starts, but all but Jacoby had been in the system for years. So them being aloof about it has no validity.
So your premise is that BB has been cheating since he started winning, even after being caught and having more of an eye on him? And I guess you are of the mindset that Patriots are the only ones "cheating"?
How did they cheat down 28-3? Or why didn't the cheating work against the Eagles? Or why didn't he cheat to best the lowly Dolphins with a BYE on the line? Or better yet on Browns topic, did BB cheat the 1 year he had a good record in Cleveland?
But let's go with this premise of the 7%. How do you know that is sustainable? And yes 20 games is a large sample size of games, but in comparison its 6% of the games played by TB12. Which is less than the 7% you want to use to make a point. As for Brady being the reason they won that game/etc., he was the starter so he is credited with that win. As for the 10-5 record of Cassel, here is the teams they beat (Jets: 4-12; 49ers: 5-11; Broncos: 7-9; Rams: 2-14; Bills: 7-9 (2); Dolphins: 11-5; Seahawks: 4-12; Raiders: 4-12; Cardinals: 9-7)
And just the previous season (with close to same roster) TB had went 16-0, the offense scored 589 points, had a +315 in point differential, Brady threw 4806 yards 50 TDs, Moss had 23 TD.
The next year, 11-5, 410 points, a point differential of 101, Cassel 3693 yards 21 TDs, Moss 11 TDs.
So using the example you used (Cassel 2008) and compared to Brady the year before: Brady +6 (or even use 5 as Cassel "winning" game 1) wins, Brady +1113 yards (about 70 yards a game), Brady +29 TDs (1.8 TDs more), and Patriots (+11.2 PPG, and +13.4 margin).
Sure seems that the Patriots missed TB12 that year.
I don't think we're going to convince each other, I guess we'll have to see what happens when Brady finally leaves. If I'm right, as long as BB is still the coach they'll be a SB contender.
I don't think we're going to convince each other, I guess we'll have to see what happens when Brady finally leaves. If I'm right, as long as BB is still the coach they'll be a SB contender.
I don't think that proves you right. I mean does it mean that Joe Montana wasn't any good because Steve Young won after?
For you to be right, BB would have to go to SB 45% of the years remaining he coaches. And win the SB in 30% of years remaining. Anything less wouldn't that be the opposite side?
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