Browns hire Kevin Stefanski as HC
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Go Gators.
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I don't agree, but go LSU.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I may be one of the few guys who think that DB play has been diminished in this pass happy NFL. Ward has been a very good player but if I’m trying to stop offenses in the NFL it’s control the line of scrimmage and get pressure on the QB. DBs don’t get away with the grabbing and hand playing they used to. Ward’s impact would be greater if the team was more polished. So we drafted a DB when we weren’t controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. As I said earlier I’m for drafting DBs high for the Browns and will admit that isn’t popular.
If anything, DB play and having premium athletes is more important than ever. Gone are the days of Minnie and Dixon who got by on overly physical play and imposing their will on you. There was a time a few years ago where I said the same thing and wanted the Browns to build front to back. But getting a good lay of the land on the defenses I love watching they all have something in common - quality DB's. And keep in mind, that's my first love. So it takes a lot to say I feel the value might be diminished, then only to circle back around and realize how wrong I was. But it is a position where you can "coach up" athletes as well as any. Take NE for example and their run of CB's.
Knew they weren't ready for Prime time in 2016 so they rolled up and out into '17 and '18. 2016 was Round 3, 4, 5 dominated. Many misses, but also hit on a 4th, Schobert, and a 5th, Higgins.
2017 was Round One dominated... MG was a no brainer no one gives them credit for, yet they did not blow it did they? Peppers and Njoku? Jury is still out. And still managed to stock 2018 with an extra #1 and an extra #2...
Not great drafts? Yup, not great... although compared to Farmer's two they look pretty good
Now how about we discuss 2018 and 2019?
2018... Two 1sts and two 2nds and all we know for sure is that we have a great RB, Chubb. We also might have a good #2/3 WR, Ratley.
2019... we appear to have a good Kicker... hoo-fucking-ray... but we added a oft injured DE and a mixed-blessing WR thru trades that included our #1 and a major piece of our OL.
The issue isn't just the misses, Tour. It's whom was selected, some of the head scratching that went with it, and the talent that was passed over in favor of said picks. Especially given that 2016 draft. 2017 wasn't without it's flops either. It is incredibly fortunate that Myles was rated as the highest player by more well known 3rd party grades on top of the fact he is a great football player to boot. If he wasn't so highly regarded with the metrics, how might have that gone? We could very well be talking about our issues with Trubisky at the moment and, I admit hesitantly, Dutch is kind of right about that. Talent eval between the more "conventional" minded front offices of days past and the more "analytical" one have their shared abysmal failures.
My concern restated - the pendulum swung one way under Sashi and then the opposite side with the Dorse... only to produce some similar results. My genuine hope is that the scouting department and our regional scouts have their voices heard by this new front office should they reach out to 3rd party grades in working to form their draft boards while developing their consensus players. I just want the new faces to avoid the entrenchment and narrow sight that our previous two administrations have shown at times. (Again, mostly regarding talent acquisition)
The issue isn't just the misses, Tour. It's whom was selected, some of the head scratching that went with it, and the talent that was passed over in favor of said picks. Especially given that 2016 draft. 2017 wasn't without it's flops either. It is incredibly fortunate that Myles was rated as the highest player by more well known 3rd party grades on top of the fact he is a great football player to boot. If he wasn't so highly regarded with the metrics, how might have that gone? We could very well be talking about our issues with Trubisky at the moment and, I admit hesitantly, Dutch is kind of right about that. Talent eval between the more "conventional" minded front offices of days past and the more "analytical" one have their shared abysmal failures.
My concern restated - the pendulum swung one way under Sashi and then the opposite side with the Dorse... only to produce some similar results. My genuine hope is that the scouting department and our regional scouts have their voices heard by this new front office should they reach out to 3rd party grades in working to form their draft boards while developing their consensus players. I just want the new faces to avoid the entrenchment and narrow sight that our previous two administrations have shown at times. (Again, mostly regarding talent acquisition)
I get all this, tia... There are many players I've scouted that we passed over who I wanted and have worked out for other teams (Marcus Williams, George Kittle)... and others not so much including some we did pick (Shon Coleman).
I would point out that if metrics said Myles was not the player he was then he would not have been the player he was... if that makes any sense.... and his on field performance would have been altered as well.
Growing a scouting department was always a core objective of the Sashi FO... that was what was going to take the time. It was the alternative to trying to find the next great, super-evaluator GM... a very rare breed. In parallel the analytics would be refined, but they started off as the stronger voice... no doubting that. In time the playing field would be leveled.
This is what I see us aspiring towards once again. For how long is the big question... and that's on Stef now. At least the timetable is in better hands than it was with Hue.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I agree. We are going to hire Berry and it is almost full circle. Maybe Berry hires Sashi as a executive assistant...LOL...that will blow up some heads. Would be fun to watch.
I like the hire. Too many blowhards who don't know squat seem to have all the answers...lol
Absolute genius take.
Absolute genius take.
Gotta be sarcasm minus the pink...
... or else thru the power of quote transference I'm at minimum no longer a dipshit.
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The issue isn't just the misses, Tour. It's whom was selected, some of the head scratching that went with it, and the talent that was passed over in favor of said picks. Especially given that 2016 draft. 2017 wasn't without it's flops either. It is incredibly fortunate that Myles was rated as the highest player by more well known 3rd party grades on top of the fact he is a great football player to boot. If he wasn't so highly regarded with the metrics, how might have that gone? We could very well be talking about our issues with Trubisky at the moment and, I admit hesitantly, Dutch is kind of right about that. Talent eval between the more "conventional" minded front offices of days past and the more "analytical" one have their shared abysmal failures.
My concern restated - the pendulum swung one way under Sashi and then the opposite side with the Dorse... only to produce some similar results. My genuine hope is that the scouting department and our regional scouts have their voices heard by this new front office should they reach out to 3rd party grades in working to form their draft boards while developing their consensus players. I just want the new faces to avoid the entrenchment and narrow sight that our previous two administrations have shown at times. (Again, mostly regarding talent acquisition)
I get all this, tia... There are many players I've scouted that we passed over who I wanted and have worked out for other teams (Marcus Williams, George Kittle)... and others not so much including some we did pick (Shon Coleman).
I would point out that if metrics said Myles was not the player he was then he would not have been the player he was... if that makes any sense.... and his on field performance would have been altered as well.
Growing a scouting department was always a core objective of the Sashi FO... that was what was going to take the time. It was the alternative to trying to find the next great, super-evaluator GM... a very rare breed. In parallel the analytics would be refined, but they started off as the stronger voice... no doubting that. In time the playing field would be leveled.
This is what I see us aspiring towards once again. For how long is the big question... and that's on Stef now. At least the timetable is in better hands than it was with Hue.
I get all this, tia... There are many players I've scouted that we passed over who I wanted and have worked out for other teams (Marcus Williams, George Kittle)... and others not so much including some we did pick (Shon Coleman).
I would point out that if metrics said Myles was not the player he was then he would not have been the player he was... if that makes any sense.... and his on field performance would have been altered as well.
Growing a scouting department was always a core objective of the Sashi FO... that was what was going to take the time. It was the alternative to trying to find the next great, super-evaluator GM... a very rare breed. In parallel the analytics would be refined, but they started off as the stronger voice... no doubting that. In time the playing field would be leveled.
This is what I see us aspiring towards once again. For how long is the big question... and that's on Stef now. At least the timetable is in better hands than it was with Hue.
I know what you're trying to say, but the opposite would have to be true then as well, no? If these players were as the grades suggested then drafting would be a science and each would perform as graded transitioning to the NFL.
This circles back around to the formula itself. If the grades assigned to these players don't match the tape and production, then how did we arrive at the grades and is there potential flaws within that system of said evaluation?
Ever see No Country For Old Men? "If the rule that you follow lead you to this, of what use was the rule?"
Scientific method requires constant process evaluation. I use PFF as the best example, because I don't think they possess the constitution for that type of process evaluation. That isn't necessarily me saying that everyone should invite doubt on their work. Only me saying that the best system for anything is one looking for constant improvement and honest self reflection when looking to produce anything of substance.
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I get all this, tia... There are many players I've scouted that we passed over who I wanted and have worked out for other teams (Marcus Williams, George Kittle)... and others not so much including some we did pick (Shon Coleman).
I would point out that if metrics said Myles was not the player he was then he would not have been the player he was... if that makes any sense.... and his on field performance would have been altered as well.
Growing a scouting department was always a core objective of the Sashi FO... that was what was going to take the time. It was the alternative to trying to find the next great, super-evaluator GM... a very rare breed. In parallel the analytics would be refined, but they started off as the stronger voice... no doubting that. In time the playing field would be leveled.
This is what I see us aspiring towards once again. For how long is the big question... and that's on Stef now. At least the timetable is in better hands than it was with Hue.
I know what you're trying to say, but the opposite would have to be true then as well, no? If these players were as the grades suggested then drafting would be a science and each would perform as graded transitioning to the NFL.
This circles back around to the formula itself. If the grades assigned to these players don't match the tape and production, then how did we arrive at the grades and is there potential flaws within that system of said evaluation?
Ever see No Country For Old Men? "If the rule that you follow lead you to this, of what use was the rule?"
Scientific method requires constant process evaluation. I use PFF as the best example, because I don't think they possess the constitution for that type of process evaluation. That isn't necessarily me saying that everyone should invite doubt on their work. Only me saying that the best system for anything is one looking for constant improvement and honest self reflection when looking to produce anything of substance.
I know what you're trying to say, but the opposite would have to be true then as well, no?
First... love No Country... Javier's character was one of the most chillingly understated villains ever... up there with Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
I think the current level of agreement between metric and traditional evals vary greatly from position to position. The more positions are interdependent, the less reliable the analytics are for them. DE/Edge seems to me to be one of the more closely agreeing
One side comment on PFF... while they grade all of each selected players' games, their eval reports include considerable text on strengths and weaknesses they've observed. Awful lot of traditional scouting in their player summaries.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Wrap up Andrew Berry and let's GO.
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I know what you're trying to say, but the opposite would have to be true then as well, no?
First... love No Country... Javier's character was one of the most chillingly understated villains ever... up there with Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
I think the current level of agreement between metric and traditional evals vary greatly from position to position. The more positions are interdependent, the less reliable the analytics are for them. DE/Edge seems to me to be one of the more closely agreeing
One side comment on PFF... while they grade all of each selected players' games, their eval reports include considerable text on strengths and weaknesses they've observed. Awful lot of traditional scouting in their player summaries.
First... love No Country... Javier's character was one of the most chillingly understated villains ever... up there with Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
I think the current level of agreement between metric and traditional evals vary greatly from position to position. The more positions are interdependent, the less reliable the analytics are for them. DE/Edge seems to me to be one of the more closely agreeing
One side comment on PFF... while they grade all of each selected players' games, their eval reports include considerable text on strengths and weaknesses they've observed. Awful lot of traditional scouting in their player summaries.
Honestly, might be my favorite villain character in any movie ever. The coin toss scene in the gas station? Legendary and fucking tense.
Agreed on the interdependence of the evaluations re: reliability. As for PFF, I feel they disregard a great deal of their traditional scouting should their grades speak to the opposite of what they see in normal film study. Which makes no god damn sense to me because that would have to mean that scheme, opponent and play design are even further discounted when producing a grade. Again, I hate to use Corey Coleman as an example but one of their articles at the time even admitted to his poor footwork, incredibly high drop percentage and system friendly play. The massive red flags were not enough for their staff to question their grade and thus overall projection of their draft ranking for him.
In short - I'm skeptical.
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Clemson will win.
What do you know? I agree, they might. I hope not. I root SEC all day, every day.
Like OSU after every other SEC team.
Go SEC
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Dustin Fox tweeted that all potential HC hires had to agree to present game plans weekly to Haslam and DePodesta.
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Clemson will win.
What do you know? I agree, they might. I hope not. I root SEC all day, every day.
Like OSU after every other SEC team.
Go SEC
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Dustin Fox tweeted that all potential HC hires had to agree to present game plans weekly to Haslam and DePodesta.
Dustin Fox tweeted that all potential HC hires had to agree to present game plans weekly to Haslam and DePodesta.
One of two things I see this as. Either ownership and management want to eliminate any future communication issues and instability among the coaching staff by verifying that these gameplans are developed, set and agreed upon by the coaching staff... - OR- Tennessee Jerry Jones just kicked into overdrive.
Either great or a disaster.
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Dustin Fox tweeted that all potential HC hires had to agree to present game plans weekly to Haslam and DePodesta.
One of two things I see this as. Either ownership and management want to eliminate any future communication issues and instability among the coaching staff by verifying that these gameplans are developed, set and agreed upon by the coaching staff... - OR- Tennessee Jerry Jones just kicked into overdrive.
Either great or a disaster.
One of two things I see this as. Either ownership and management want to eliminate and future communication issues and instability among the coaching staff by verifying that these gameplans are developed, set and agreed upon by the coaching staff... - OR- Tennessee Jerry Jones just kicked into overdrive.
Either great or a disaster.
I was assuming that that statement was a joke of some sort? No
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One of two things I see this as. Either ownership and management want to eliminate and future communication issues and instability among the coaching staff by verifying that these gameplans are developed, set and agreed upon by the coaching staff... - OR- Tennessee Jerry Jones just kicked into overdrive.
Either great or a disaster.
I was assuming that that statement was a joke of some sort? No
I was assuming that that statement was a joke of some sort? No
Which part? The Jerry Jones quip? It's sarcasm coupled with insult. I've been calling Haslam the Tennessee version of Jerry since he went over everyone's head and hand picked Manziel. An owner who is so convinced of his football prowess that his meddling has held back his own team.
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Dustin Fox tweeted that all potential HC hires had to agree to present game plans weekly to Haslam and DePodesta.
Dustin Fox tweeted that all potential HC hires had to agree to present game plans weekly to Haslam and DePodesta.
Again, this has to be a joke, right? The owner and the "Strategic Planning Director" (which I believe is his title).....plan to micromanage things to that extent?
We are truly fucked then.
You would think that just hiring a new HC would be a moment of hope for this team for the future. That hope seems to have just been dashed on the Lake Erie Pier.
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I was assuming that that statement was a joke of some sort? No
Which part? The Jerry Jones quip? It's sarcasm coupled with insult. I've been calling Haslam the Tennessee version of Jerry since he went over everyone's head and hand picked Manziel. An owner who is so convinced of his football prowess that his meddling has held back his own team.
Which part? The Jerry Jones quip? It's sarcasm coupled with insult. I've been calling Haslam the Tennessee version of Jerry since he went over everyone's head and hand picked Manziel. An owner who is so convinced of his football prowess that his meddling has held back his own team.
The part where the game plan must be submitted to the owner/Depo.
WTF do those guy know about putting together a game plan?
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