Supreme Court Considers Religious Schools Case
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Here's my take. It is absolutely essential to provide funds to private Christian schools. People against it act like Christian parents don't pay taxes, so why should they get aid to THEIR schools?
The the point about government interference is not a bad point - it just isn't valid to prevent our gov also getting some funds to private Christian schools. The government is not allowed to establish an official accepted religion, and it cannot act to prevent a Christian school from existing. Those Christian parents PAY TAXES TOO.
So, we have a bit of a quandary there. A simple solution is tax credits for the money paid in tuition to schools. Why should a poor Christian family not be able to pursure their hopes/dreams/Christian beliefs because they are too poor?
What about THEIR "Life, Liberty, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ?" Why demand that Christian parents go to public schools, only to have those kids educated to not accept Christian teachings?
So many public schools are sold out to liberalism. Part of the reason is - the lawsuits against property taxes being the funding for our schools. Know why? Because with property taxes - the school system is completely beholden to parents/property owners - for their activities/teachings in schools. and those citizens sure as heyl won't put up with a constant barrage of liberal perverted teachings in their schools.
So, eventually, lawsuits prevailed, and now funds come from higher up - the state - and those obaMao inspired/leaned on schools can teach outrageous anti-Christian truths at will, and parents have no way out - except to get their kids into a private Christian school...
or home school.
And guess how the nea, state "ea"s and teachers unions feel about that. THEY HATE IT. They can't control/groom the minds of young children if they don't go to their school. And the left is self-defined - as justified in controlling. and grooming a new generation away from Real American parents.
So, Christian families PAY THE TAXES TOO, and that means they cannot, often, afford to pay for public schools, and still, to pursure their own Happiness, and Life/LIberty - have their kids go to the expensive Christian schools they choose.
God already knows - that home schoolers are already under the watchful eye and basic regulations by the state education associations/state legislators anyways.
So. The money paid by parents to send their kids to schools that don't teach constant violations of their faith, that don't put their kids at risk of physical harm, etc.... should be tax exempt - a tax deduction.
The silly argument about "what if your tax dollars go to mooslim fundamentalist schools" ?
If Muslim parents want their own school, I'm fine with it. But some of them - they branch off into terrorist teachings, etc.
Then they should be immediately shut down, the perps arrested, lose citizenship, and sent to gitmo.
I think you will never find Christian schools that branch off and teach kids to blow themselves and "infidels" up, etc etcetc.
SO, two parents, obviously a man and a woman, in REAL AMERICA - make 60,000 bucks a year together. They pay ...well, I forget how expensive it is - let's say... average cost per year to the school is 7000 bucks. So, they pay taxes on 50,000 bucks with no other deductions.
So, 60,000 x .15 (15% tax rate (just throwing out a number here) $9000
50,000 x .15 $7500.
of course, there are other deductions.
2% of tax dollars goes to education. So, change the 50000 calc to .13. Now it's 6500. That saves about 3000 bucks right there.
Per each parent- you would pay $6000 less a year. Single parent homes would have an extra deduction - getting them to the $6000 dollars saved mark.
That's just a dumb calc off the top of my head.
Anyways, CHRISTIAN PARENTS PAY JUST AS MUCH IN TAXES. They should get the same benefit in their children's education.
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This is a Christian nation, not an Mooslem nation.
Show me where in the Constitution that it says the United States is a Christian nation. Take your time, i'll wait.
Show me where in the Constitution that it says the United States is a Christian nation. Take your time, i'll wait.
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Show me where in the Constitution that it says the United States is a Christian nation. Take your time, i'll wait.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson -
This is based on legislation from Montana. So not liberals at odds here.
Would you guys be pumped on your tax dollars going to Islamic elementary schools?
Would you guys be pumped on your tax dollars going to Islamic elementary schools?
Me? Actually I wouldn't mind. Reason? Unless a Catholic school or a Muslim school or Hebrew school is teaching sedition I assume that the kids are getting a better and probably more conservative education than they might in a public school. I went to a Catholic School kindergarten and first grade. Really gave me a step up for when I got to public school.
PS while I hate Islamic terrorism I have absolutely nothing against Muslims. Unlike the animosity that some folks show towards Christians.
WSS
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Would you guys be pumped on your tax dollars going to Islamic elementary schools?
Me? Actually I wouldn't mind. Reason? Unless a Catholic school or a Muslim school or Hebrew school is teaching sedition I assume that the kids are getting a better and probably more conservative education than they might in a public school. I went to a Catholic School kindergarten and first grade. Really gave me a step up for when I got to public school.
PS while I hate Islamic terrorism I have absolutely nothing against Muslims. Unlike the animosity that some folks show towards Christians.
WSS
Me? Actually I wouldn't mind. Reason? Unless a Catholic school or a Muslim school or Hebrew school is teaching sedition I assume that the kids are getting a better and probably more conservative education than they might in a public school.
That's debatable. One of the major reasons why public school in the United States came about in the first place was because of the poor or non-existent quality of education by private religious institutions and home-schools. Public education was founded, in part, to provide a standardized level of educational instruction. You can look back and compare such metrics as literacy rate, before and after implementation of public education, and its not even close.
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Here's my take. It is absolutely essential to provide funds to private Christian schools. People against it act like Christian parents don't pay taxes, so why should they get aid to THEIR schools?
The the point about government interference is not a bad point - it just isn't valid to prevent our gov also getting some funds to private Christian schools. The government is not allowed to establish an official accepted religion, and it cannot act to prevent a Christian school from existing. Those Christian parents PAY TAXES TOO.
So, we have a bit of a quandary there. A simple solution is tax credits for the money paid in tuition to schools. Why should a poor Christian family not be able to pursure their hopes/dreams/Christian beliefs because they are too poor?
What about THEIR "Life, Liberty, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ?" Why demand that Christian parents go to public schools, only to have those kids educated to not accept Christian teachings?
So many public schools are sold out to liberalism. Part of the reason is - the lawsuits against property taxes being the funding for our schools. Know why? Because with property taxes - the school system is completely beholden to parents/property owners - for their activities/teachings in schools. and those citizens sure as heyl won't put up with a constant barrage of liberal perverted teachings in their schools.
So, eventually, lawsuits prevailed, and now funds come from higher up - the state - and those obaMao inspired/leaned on schools can teach outrageous anti-Christian truths at will, and parents have no way out - except to get their kids into a private Christian school...
or home school.
And guess how the nea, state "ea"s and teachers unions feel about that. THEY HATE IT. They can't control/groom the minds of young children if they don't go to their school. And the left is self-defined - as justified in controlling. and grooming a new generation away from Real American parents.
So, Christian families PAY THE TAXES TOO, and that means they cannot, often, afford to pay for public schools, and still, to pursure their own Happiness, and Life/LIberty - have their kids go to the expensive Christian schools they choose.
God already knows - that home schoolers are already under the watchful eye and basic regulations by the state education associations/state legislators anyways.
So. The money paid by parents to send their kids to schools that don't teach constant violations of their faith, that don't put their kids at risk of physical harm, etc.... should be tax exempt - a tax deduction.
The silly argument about "what if your tax dollars go to mooslim fundamentalist schools" ?
If Muslim parents want their own school, I'm fine with it. But some of them - they branch off into terrorist teachings, etc.
Then they should be immediately shut down, the perps arrested, lose citizenship, and sent to gitmo.
I think you will never find Christian schools that branch off and teach kids to blow themselves and "infidels" up, etc etcetc.
SO, two parents, obviously a man and a woman, in REAL AMERICA - make 60,000 bucks a year together. They pay ...well, I forget how expensive it is - let's say... average cost per year to the school is 7000 bucks. So, they pay taxes on 50,000 bucks with no other deductions.
So, 60,000 x .15 (15% tax rate (just throwing out a number here) $9000
50,000 x .15 $7500.
of course, there are other deductions.
2% of tax dollars goes to education. So, change the 50000 calc to .13. Now it's 6500. That saves about 3000 bucks right there.
Per each parent- you would pay $6000 less a year. Single parent homes would have an extra deduction - getting them to the $6000 dollars saved mark.
That's just a dumb calc off the top of my head.
Anyways, CHRISTIAN PARENTS PAY JUST AS MUCH IN TAXES. They should get the same benefit in their children's education.
Here's my take. It is absolutely essential to provide funds to private Christian schools. People against it act like Christian parents don't pay taxes, so why should they get aid to THEIR schools? - This argument is also valid in reverse; people who practice other religions besides Christianity or no religion at all also play taxes, so why should they have to pay taxes for Christian schools?
The the point about government interference is not a bad point - it just isn't valid to prevent our gov also getting some funds to private Christian schools. The government is not allowed to establish an official accepted religion, and it cannot act to prevent a Christian school from existing. Those Christian parents PAY TAXES TOO. - Again, it's not the job of the government to fund any religious institution; that's why the concept of separation of Church and State exists. It not only prevents religious encroachment onto the greater body politic, but - more importantly - protects religious institutions from government involvement.
So, we have a bit of a quandary there. A simple solution is tax credits for the money paid in tuition to schools. Why should a poor Christian family not be able to pursure their hopes/dreams/Christian beliefs because they are too poor? - That could possibly be a solution, as long as the tax credit/tuition voucher is attached to the individual student, not to an educational institution, religious or otherwise. But, you'd still run into the same problem: federal tax dollars would be the one funding the tax credit/tuition voucher, so that could potentially open the door to the government dictating what can and cannot be taught in a religious-based school.
What about THEIR "Life, Liberty, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ?" Why demand that Christian parents go to public schools, only to have those kids educated to not accept Christian teachings? - "PURSUIT" of happiness, not a "GUARANTEE" of happiness. The ideals behind the phrase mean that any government should provide an environment in which individuals are free to pursue their own happiness, not directly fund it. And the fact that there are Christian and other religious schools to begin with dissuades the notion that Christians are being demanded to or forced into going to public schools.
So many public schools are sold out to liberalism. Part of the reason is - the lawsuits against property taxes being the funding for our schools. Know why? Because with property taxes - the school system is completely beholden to parents/property owners - for their activities/teachings in schools. and those citizens sure as heyl won't put up with a constant barrage of liberal perverted teachings in their schools.
So, eventually, lawsuits prevailed, and now funds come from higher up - the state - and those obaMao inspired/leaned on schools can teach outrageous anti-Christian truths at will, and parents have no way out - except to get their kids into a private Christian school...
or home school. - Except the idea of public education funded by property taxes isn't a recent idea; it has been around for more than a century. And, up until as recently as a few decades ago, those same taxes were used to fund Christian ideology taught in public schools, with no consternation from the religious. It was only when it was pointed out through litigation and law making that funding religious ideology using public dollars was unconstitutional that the religious began to complain about federal funding of public schools and public education in general.
And guess how the nea, state "ea"s and teachers unions feel about that. THEY HATE IT. They can't control/groom the minds of young children if they don't go to their school. And the left is self-defined - as justified in controlling. and grooming a new generation away from Real American parents. - I think teachers unions are more concerned about losing money to line their own pockets than "controlling the minds" of children, but you're not going to get an argument from me about the questionable usefulness of today's teachers unions.
So, Christian families PAY THE TAXES TOO, and that means they cannot, often, afford to pay for public schools, and still, to pursure their own Happiness, and Life/LIberty - have their kids go to the expensive Christian schools they choose.
God already knows - that home schoolers are already under the watchful eye and basic regulations by the state education associations/state legislators anyways. - Yes, because I don't think it's out of the realm of reason to have set minimum standards when it comes to education, i.e. reading/writing comprehension, mathematical competency, etc; things that couldn't be guaranteed otherwise by home-schooled education.
So. The money paid by parents to send their kids to schools that don't teach constant violations of their faith, that don't put their kids at risk of physical harm, etc.... should be tax exempt - a tax deduction.
The silly argument about "what if your tax dollars go to mooslim fundamentalist schools" ?
If Muslim parents want their own school, I'm fine with it. But some of them - they branch off into terrorist teachings, etc.
Then they should be immediately shut down, the perps arrested, lose citizenship, and sent to gitmo.
I think you will never find Christian schools that branch off and teach kids to blow themselves and "infidels" up, etc etcetc.
SO, two parents, obviously a man and a woman, in REAL AMERICA - make 60,000 bucks a year together. They pay ...well, I forget how expensive it is - let's say... average cost per year to the school is 7000 bucks. So, they pay taxes on 50,000 bucks with no other deductions.
So, 60,000 x .15 (15% tax rate (just throwing out a number here) $9000
50,000 x .15 $7500.
of course, there are other deductions.
2% of tax dollars goes to education. So, change the 50000 calc to .13. Now it's 6500. That saves about 3000 bucks right there.
Per each parent- you would pay $6000 less a year. Single parent homes would have an extra deduction - getting them to the $6000 dollars saved mark.
That's just a dumb calc off the top of my head.
Anyways, CHRISTIAN PARENTS PAY JUST AS MUCH IN TAXES. They should get the same benefit in their children's education.
-
Me? Actually I wouldn't mind. Reason? Unless a Catholic school or a Muslim school or Hebrew school is teaching sedition I assume that the kids are getting a better and probably more conservative education than they might in a public school.
That's debatable. One of the major reasons why public school in the United States came about in the first place was because of the poor or non-existent quality of education by private religious institutions and home-schools. Public education was founded, in part, to provide a standardized level of educational instruction. You can look back and compare such metrics as literacy rate, before and after implementation of public education, and its not even close.
That's debatable.
yes isn't everything?
One of the major reasons why public school in the United States came about in the first place was because of the poor or non-existent quality of education by private religious institutions and home-schools. Public education was founded, in part, to provide a standardized level of educational instruction. You can look back and compare such metrics as literacy rate, before and after implementation of public education, and its not even close.
the first public school was in the 17th century. No doubt the proliferation occurred much later than that but things change don't they? There's a pretty wide variety among Public Schools but I don't see many stories about Catholic schools being the equivalent of the ones that really really suck.
WSS
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https://www.au.org/resources/publications/is-america-a-christian-nation
Look at the source, lmao.
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https://www.au.org/resources/publications/is-america-a-christian-nation
Look at the source, lmao.
Look at the source, lmao.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson -
Good luck j. You know DH isn't even hiding it anymore, and I'm impressed you broke down a detailed response to cal when you know what you'll get back.
The crazy thing here to me is arguing for religious schools getting tax dollars in one breath and planned Parenthood not getting funding in another. It's just Christians picking and choosing what they want ALL of our tax dollars going to
- yes, there would be angry threads on here with articles from the blaze the first time tax dollars as a result of this change went to a Muslim school
- yes, there would be angry threads on here with articles from the blaze the first time a Christian School was told what to teach because they were receiving tax dollars
It would be interesting to also see actual data on public schools vs religious schools. No OBF, not from anywhere you'd normally frequent. It would also need to be adjusted for income and other factors as well I imagine
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Good luck j. You know DH isn't even hiding it anymore, and I'm impressed you broke down a detailed response to cal when you know what you'll get back.
The crazy thing here to me is arguing for religious schools getting tax dollars in one breath and planned Parenthood not getting funding in another. It's just Christians picking and choosing what they want ALL of our tax dollars going to
- yes, there would be angry threads on here with articles from the blaze the first time tax dollars as a result of this change went to a Muslim school
- yes, there would be angry threads on here with articles from the blaze the first time a Christian School was told what to teach because they were receiving tax dollars
It would be interesting to also see actual data on public schools vs religious schools. No OBF, not from anywhere you'd normally frequent. It would also need to be adjusted for income and other factors as well I imagine
Good luck j. You know DH isn't even hiding it anymore, and I'm impressed you broke down a detailed response to cal when you know what you'll get back.
hiding what? He's trolling most of the time and you bite it like a Hungry Fish Bites a worm
The crazy thing here to me is arguing for religious schools getting tax dollars in one breath and planned Parenthood not getting funding in another. It's just Christians picking and choosing what they want ALL of our tax dollars going to
Planned Parenthood performs abortions which many people believe are immoral. St. Edward's teaches people etc etc. And yes the curriculum has to be approved. You didn't know that?
- yes, there would be angry threads on here with articles from the blaze the first time tax dollars as a result of this change went to a Muslim school
and you would be defending it tooth and nail.
- yes, there would be angry threads on here with articles from the blaze the first time a Christian School was told what to teach because they were receiving tax dollars
isn't that what the public schools do? Why yes it is. Good eye.
It would be interesting to also see actual data on public schools vs religious schools. No OBF, not from anywhere you'd normally frequent. It would also need to be adjusted for income and other factors as well I imagine
then why don't you post some? Maybe because Catholic schools perform better than public schools in general? Probably not a big difference between Catholic schools and upper-middle-class Suburban schools but across-the-board?
WSS
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Before this country had no govt assistance for religious schools we had govt assistance for religious schools. I know it first hand as I was in Catholic school for a few years in elementary school and when they lost govt aid and started charging for tuition my parents switched me to public school (we had a large family and my parents couldn't afford to send us all).
Ok, so lets suppose that the people suing Montana win their case and, by extension, federal and state governments are then required to fund religious schools.You, presumably, would be happy with this since, as a Christian yourself, you'd see your fellow Christian's schools recieve tax-dollars to support their schools and religious teachings. Fair enough, but i'm afraid that is a narrow-minded view.
To start, Christianity - although the largest religious group represented - isn't the only religion practiced in the US. Current estimates are that there are over 300 different religions and denominations practiced in the United States. So, it's safe to assume that these religions would also be open to receiveing federal funding for their own schools of religious ideology. Tell me, how would you feel about your tax dollars funding an Islamic madrassa? Or how about a school extolling the virtues of the Church of Scientology? How about bankrolling a school teaching the lessons of Odin and Thor and other Norse gods, for the neo-pagans? Better yet, what if your tax-dollars went into funding for building a multi-million dollar school teaching about Lucifer for the Chruch of Satan? All of these -and many others - are religions recoginized by the United States government, so they'd naturally be eligible for federal and state funding as well, not just Christianity or other Judeo-Christian religions. Once you open the door for federal funding of one religious instituiton, you open the door for funding all of them.
Secondly, in case you missed it in my response to Steve earlier in the thread, so i'll repeat it here: Once you open the door for federal funding of religious schools, you also open the door for conditions coming with said aid; such as what the religious schools may or may not teach in their classes. So, if this passes, I hope Catholic schools and other religious institutions enjoy teaching evolution in their classes; "Teaching the Controversy", as it were. The whole point of "freedom of religion" is to be able to have religious beliefs and practice them without government interference; suing the government to make it a requirement for them to fund religious schools is just them opening their own doors for government interference.
Ok, so lets suppose that the people suing Montana win their case and, by extension, federal and state governments are then required to fund religious schools.You, presumably, would be happy with this since, as a Christian yourself, you'd see your fellow Christian's schools recieve tax-dollars to support their schools and religious teachings. Fair enough, but i'm afraid that is a narrow-minded view.
To start, Christianity - although the largest religious group represented - isn't the only religion practiced in the US. Current estimates are that there are over 300 different religions and denominations practiced in the United States. So, it's safe to assume that these religions would also be open to receiveing federal funding for their own schools of religious ideology. Tell me, how would you feel about your tax dollars funding an Islamic madrassa? Or how about a school extolling the virtues of the Church of Scientology? How about bankrolling a school teaching the lessons of Odin and Thor and other Norse gods, for the neo-pagans? Better yet, what if your tax-dollars went into funding for building a multi-million dollar school teaching about Lucifer for the Chruch of Satan? All of these -and many others - are religions recoginized by the United States government, so they'd naturally be eligible for federal and state funding as well, not just Christianity or other Judeo-Christian religions. Once you open the door for federal funding of one religious instituiton, you open the door for funding all of them.
Secondly, in case you missed it in my response to Steve earlier in the thread, so i'll repeat it here: Once you open the door for federal funding of religious schools, you also open the door for conditions coming with said aid; such as what the religious schools may or may not teach in their classes. So, if this passes, I hope Catholic schools and other religious institutions enjoy teaching evolution in their classes; "Teaching the Controversy", as it were. The whole point of "freedom of religion" is to be able to have religious beliefs and practice them without government interference; suing the government to make it a requirement for them to fund religious schools is just them opening their own doors for government interference.
I understand the argument but there are things that can be done to minimize problems such as a satanist school etc and that would be to have schools have a minimum enrollment such as being over 100 students and educational standards that teachers must meet. There likely would be Jewish and Muslim schools but I am OK with that as that would be the price to pay to have Christian schools and be fair. Fringe religions/cults would likely not meet either the enrollment or teacher standards. If some do then so be it. The parents would decide the school for their children and not the government. The only requirements the govt should impose are educational requirements which I am fine with. I have never had a problem with schools teaching the theory of evolution along with creationism.
One of my biggest problems with public schools are that they many times are being selective in what they allow and do not allow. I am all for public schools getting back to the basics of education and stop the liberal indoctrination on political and social issues. For example we have had schools allow students to leave classes to go to an anti gun rally yet deny students to leave class to go to a pro life rally, It all comes down to fairness.
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Ok, so lets suppose that the people suing Montana win their case and, by extension, federal and state governments are then required to fund religious schools.You, presumably, would be happy with this since, as a Christian yourself, you'd see your fellow Christian's schools recieve tax-dollars to support their schools and religious teachings. Fair enough, but i'm afraid that is a narrow-minded view.
To start, Christianity - although the largest religious group represented - isn't the only religion practiced in the US. Current estimates are that there are over 300 different religions and denominations practiced in the United States. So, it's safe to assume that these religions would also be open to receiveing federal funding for their own schools of religious ideology. Tell me, how would you feel about your tax dollars funding an Islamic madrassa? Or how about a school extolling the virtues of the Church of Scientology? How about bankrolling a school teaching the lessons of Odin and Thor and other Norse gods, for the neo-pagans? Better yet, what if your tax-dollars went into funding for building a multi-million dollar school teaching about Lucifer for the Chruch of Satan? All of these -and many others - are religions recoginized by the United States government, so they'd naturally be eligible for federal and state funding as well, not just Christianity or other Judeo-Christian religions. Once you open the door for federal funding of one religious instituiton, you open the door for funding all of them.
Secondly, in case you missed it in my response to Steve earlier in the thread, so i'll repeat it here: Once you open the door for federal funding of religious schools, you also open the door for conditions coming with said aid; such as what the religious schools may or may not teach in their classes. So, if this passes, I hope Catholic schools and other religious institutions enjoy teaching evolution in their classes; "Teaching the Controversy", as it were. The whole point of "freedom of religion" is to be able to have religious beliefs and practice them without government interference; suing the government to make it a requirement for them to fund religious schools is just them opening their own doors for government interference.
I understand the argument but there are things that can be done to minimize problems such as a satanist school etc and that would be to have schools have a minimum enrollment such as being over 100 students and educational standards that teachers must meet. There likely would be Jewish and Muslim schools but I am OK with that as that would be the price to pay to have Christian schools and be fair. Fringe religions/cults would likely not meet either the enrollment or teacher standards. If some do then so be it. The parents would decide the school for their children and not the government. The only requirements the govt should impose are educational requirements which I am fine with. I have never had a problem with schools teaching the theory of evolution along with creationism.
One of my biggest problems with public schools are that they many times are being selective in what they allow and do not allow. I am all for public schools getting back to the basics of education and stop the liberal indoctrination on political and social issues. For example we have had schools allow students to leave classes to go to an anti gun rally yet deny students to leave class to go to a pro life rally, It all comes down to fairness.
I understand the argument but there are things that can be done to minimize problems such as a satanist school etc and that would be to have schools have a minimum enrollment such as being over 100 students and educational standards that teachers must meet. There likely would be Jewish and Muslim schools but I am OK with that as that would be the price to pay to have Christian schools and be fair. Fringe religions/cults would likely not meet either the enrollment or teacher standards. If some do then so be it. The parents would decide the school for their children and not the government. The only requirements the govt should impose are educational requirements which I am fine with. I have never had a problem with schools teaching the theory of evolution along with creationism.
One of my biggest problems with public schools are that they many times are being selective in what they allow and do not allow. I am all for public schools getting back to the basics of education and stop the liberal indoctrination on political and social issues. For example we have had schools allow students to leave classes to go to an anti gun rally yet deny students to leave class to go to a pro life rally, It all comes down to fairness.
Oh God, that "theory" line again... Classic
And yes, I'm sure you've been presented many articles about "liberal indoctrination" in public schools that are completely truthful. But then again you probably consider teaching evolution as "liberal indoctrination" so .... why bother
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I understand the argument but there are things that can be done to minimize problems such as a satanist school etc and that would be to have schools have a minimum enrollment such as being over 100 students and educational standards that teachers must meet. There likely would be Jewish and Muslim schools but I am OK with that as that would be the price to pay to have Christian schools and be fair. Fringe religions/cults would likely not meet either the enrollment or teacher standards. If some do then so be it. The parents would decide the school for their children and not the government. The only requirements the govt should impose are educational requirements which I am fine with. I have never had a problem with schools teaching the theory of evolution along with creationism.
One of my biggest problems with public schools are that they many times are being selective in what they allow and do not allow. I am all for public schools getting back to the basics of education and stop the liberal indoctrination on political and social issues. For example we have had schools allow students to leave classes to go to an anti gun rally yet deny students to leave class to go to a pro life rally, It all comes down to fairness.
Oh God, that "theory" line again... Classic
And yes, I'm sure you've been presented many articles about "liberal indoctrination" in public schools that are completely truthful. But then again you probably consider teaching evolution as "liberal indoctrination" so .... why bother
Oh God, that "theory" line again... Classic
And yes, I'm sure you've been presented many articles about "liberal indoctrination" in public schools that are completely truthful. But then again you probably consider teaching evolution as "liberal indoctrination" so .... why bother
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Ah yes, Prager U. The clearly biased right wing think tank that parades around like a legitimate academic institution to try and legitimatize themselves to stupid people
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
I'm a big believer in "what is understood does not need to be said".
When this thread was started, EVERYBODY knew what the responses and supporting arguments were going to be. Nothing new, nothing insightful. Why Any of you guys still bother is beyond me. Must be a lot of masochists here.
Maybe when something that is rather new comes up, sure... I could see possible discussion. You are, the sort of you, each others secret best friends. You just don't know it.
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Ah yes, Prager U. The clearly biased right wing think tank that parades around like a legitimate academic institution to try and legitimatize themselves to stupid people
Ah yes, Prager U. The clearly biased right wing think tank that parades around like a legitimate academic institution to try and legitimatize themselves to stupid people
"That's all I'm taking from you, Woody"?
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Here's my take. It is absolutely essential to provide funds to private Christian schools. People against it act like Christian parents don't pay taxes, so why should they get aid to THEIR schools? - This argument is also valid in reverse; people who practice other religions besides Christianity or no religion at all also play taxes, so why should they have to pay taxes for Christian schools?
The the point about government interference is not a bad point - it just isn't valid to prevent our gov also getting some funds to private Christian schools. The government is not allowed to establish an official accepted religion, and it cannot act to prevent a Christian school from existing. Those Christian parents PAY TAXES TOO. - Again, it's not the job of the government to fund any religious institution; that's why the concept of separation of Church and State exists. It not only prevents religious encroachment onto the greater body politic, but - more importantly - protects religious institutions from government involvement.
So, we have a bit of a quandary there. A simple solution is tax credits for the money paid in tuition to schools. Why should a poor Christian family not be able to pursure their hopes/dreams/Christian beliefs because they are too poor? - That could possibly be a solution, as long as the tax credit/tuition voucher is attached to the individual student, not to an educational institution, religious or otherwise. But, you'd still run into the same problem: federal tax dollars would be the one funding the tax credit/tuition voucher, so that could potentially open the door to the government dictating what can and cannot be taught in a religious-based school.
What about THEIR "Life, Liberty, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ?" Why demand that Christian parents go to public schools, only to have those kids educated to not accept Christian teachings? - "PURSUIT" of happiness, not a "GUARANTEE" of happiness. The ideals behind the phrase mean that any government should provide an environment in which individuals are free to pursue their own happiness, not directly fund it. And the fact that there are Christian and other religious schools to begin with dissuades the notion that Christians are being demanded to or forced into going to public schools.
So many public schools are sold out to liberalism. Part of the reason is - the lawsuits against property taxes being the funding for our schools. Know why? Because with property taxes - the school system is completely beholden to parents/property owners - for their activities/teachings in schools. and those citizens sure as heyl won't put up with a constant barrage of liberal perverted teachings in their schools.
So, eventually, lawsuits prevailed, and now funds come from higher up - the state - and those obaMao inspired/leaned on schools can teach outrageous anti-Christian truths at will, and parents have no way out - except to get their kids into a private Christian school...
or home school. - Except the idea of public education funded by property taxes isn't a recent idea; it has been around for more than a century. And, up until as recently as a few decades ago, those same taxes were used to fund Christian ideology taught in public schools, with no consternation from the religious. It was only when it was pointed out through litigation and law making that funding religious ideology using public dollars was unconstitutional that the religious began to complain about federal funding of public schools and public education in general.
And guess how the nea, state "ea"s and teachers unions feel about that. THEY HATE IT. They can't control/groom the minds of young children if they don't go to their school. And the left is self-defined - as justified in controlling. and grooming a new generation away from Real American parents. - I think teachers unions are more concerned about losing money to line their own pockets than "controlling the minds" of children, but you're not going to get an argument from me about the questionable usefulness of today's teachers unions.
So, Christian families PAY THE TAXES TOO, and that means they cannot, often, afford to pay for public schools, and still, to pursure their own Happiness, and Life/LIberty - have their kids go to the expensive Christian schools they choose.
God already knows - that home schoolers are already under the watchful eye and basic regulations by the state education associations/state legislators anyways. - Yes, because I don't think it's out of the realm of reason to have set minimum standards when it comes to education, i.e. reading/writing comprehension, mathematical competency, etc; things that couldn't be guaranteed otherwise by home-schooled education.
So. The money paid by parents to send their kids to schools that don't teach constant violations of their faith, that don't put their kids at risk of physical harm, etc.... should be tax exempt - a tax deduction.
The silly argument about "what if your tax dollars go to mooslim fundamentalist schools" ?
If Muslim parents want their own school, I'm fine with it. But some of them - they branch off into terrorist teachings, etc.
Then they should be immediately shut down, the perps arrested, lose citizenship, and sent to gitmo.
I think you will never find Christian schools that branch off and teach kids to blow themselves and "infidels" up, etc etcetc.
SO, two parents, obviously a man and a woman, in REAL AMERICA - make 60,000 bucks a year together. They pay ...well, I forget how expensive it is - let's say... average cost per year to the school is 7000 bucks. So, they pay taxes on 50,000 bucks with no other deductions.
So, 60,000 x .15 (15% tax rate (just throwing out a number here) $9000
50,000 x .15 $7500.
of course, there are other deductions.
2% of tax dollars goes to education. So, change the 50000 calc to .13. Now it's 6500. That saves about 3000 bucks right there.
Per each parent- you would pay $6000 less a year. Single parent homes would have an extra deduction - getting them to the $6000 dollars saved mark.
That's just a dumb calc off the top of my head.
Anyways, CHRISTIAN PARENTS PAY JUST AS MUCH IN TAXES. They should get the same benefit in their children's education.
Here's my take. It is absolutely essential to provide funds to private Christian schools. People against it act like Christian parents don't pay taxes, so why should they get aid to THEIR schools? - This argument is also valid in reverse; people who practice other religions besides Christianity or no religion at all also play taxes, so why should they have to pay taxes for Christian schools?
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True - but it's more complicated than that. Let Jewish parents get tax cred etc for their CHOICE of school, obviously? the Jewish private school. Muslim - same thing. For parents who pay taxes and don't have children - good point. But in the end, the American people want their next generation to have good educations, good schools. Tax levies have fallen when some school board goes off the deep end on what they teach. That is how it should be. MAGA.
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The the point about government interference is not a bad point - it just isn't valid to prevent our gov also getting some funds to private Christian schools. The government is not allowed to establish an official accepted religion, and it cannot act to prevent a Christian school from existing. Those Christian parents PAY TAXES TOO. - Again, it's not the job of the government to fund any religious institution; that's why the concept of separation of Church and State exists. It not only prevents religious encroachment onto the greater body politic, but - more importantly - protects religious institutions from government involvement.
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Agreed, except, it is the job of the government to support education of the next generation. The problem is, so many public schools are failing in either safety...or quality of education/equipment... that a school is a Christian school is immaterial - it is still a school. Home schools are still schools. Because, parents, in their PURSUIT of HAPPINESS - insist on school choice. The government can NOT demand a religion-free school as the only choice to the public. That would violate the separation of church and state clause.
statement:"the concept of separation of Church and State exists. It not only prevents religious encroachment onto the greater body politic, but - more importantly - protects religious institutions from government involvement. " is not true.
" Separation of church and state " is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
What this means...is that the government cannot establish a particular religion as a state religion...nor can it prohibit the free exercise of religion".
Meaning, of course, that Christian schools, etc, are ALLOWED and shall not be prohibited from existing. Granted, governmental education standards are fine across the board. It's cultural/religious interference that the left wants to perpetrate. That again, violates the Establishment clause. Why do liberals demand "Freedom of Choice" to be able to murder children, but they insist no freedom of choice in sending their children to public or private schools? Sorry, had to toss that in there....
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So, we have a bit of a quandary there. A simple solution is tax credits for the money paid in tuition to schools. Why should a poor Christian family not be able to pursure their hopes/dreams/Christian beliefs because they are too poor? - That could possibly be a solution, as long as the tax credit/tuition voucher is attached to the individual student, not to an educational institution, religious or otherwise. But, you'd still run into the same problem: federal tax dollars would be the one funding the tax credit/tuition voucher, so that could potentially open the door to the government dictating what can and cannot be taught in a religious-based school.
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True - except the separation of church and state means they cannot interfere with the Christian teaching in a church, but that across the board, certain legitimate standards on basic math/reading/science must be met. Teaching evolution theory is fine, as long as teaching Creationism is not forbidden. A Muslim madrassa teaching blowing up people is hardly a legitimate school. Terrorism is illegal.
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What about THEIR "Life, Liberty, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ?" Why demand that Christian parents go to public schools, only to have those kids educated to not accept Christian teachings? - "PURSUIT" of happiness, not a "GUARANTEE" of happiness. The ideals behind the phrase mean that any government should provide an environment in which individuals are free to pursue their own happiness, not directly fund it. And the fact that there are Christian and other religious schools to begin with dissuades the notion that Christians are being demanded to or forced into going to public schools.
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True, never implied? "guarantee". And yes, no one is forced to send their kids to public schools. But, if they can't home school them, per law or careers/etc... and they can't afford it - our schools MUST give ALL students opportunity to get a great education. But in the end, it is the parents whose choice it is, to educate their children without interference in their teachings or risking their children's safety (inner city schools, etc). Right now, kids aren't allowed to pray in public schools in a lot of systems. The government can NOT condone the exclusion of prayer in schools, because then they violate the "free excercise thereof". They just can't order prayer in schools. They can't establish prayer as an official practice. but the hatemongering denial of students praying on their own ...dramaticallly violates the free exercise part of the separation of church and state clause.
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So many public schools are sold out to liberalism. Part of the reason is - the lawsuits against property taxes being the funding for our schools. Know why? Because with property taxes - the school system is completely beholden to parents/property owners - for their activities/teachings in schools. and those citizens sure as heyl won't put up with a constant barrage of liberal perverted teachings in their schools.
So, eventually, lawsuits prevailed, and now funds come from higher up - the state - and those obaMao inspired/leaned on schools can teach outrageous anti-Christian truths at will, and parents have no way out - except to get their kids into a private Christian school...
or home school. - Except the idea of public education funded by property taxes isn't a recent idea; it has been around for more than a century. And, up until as recently as a few decades ago, those same taxes were used to fund Christian ideology taught in public schools, with no consternation from the religious. It was only when it was pointed out through litigation and law making that funding religious ideology using public dollars was unconstitutional that the religious began to complain about federal funding of public schools and public education in general.
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The government cannot establish, NOR prohibit. It's a balance. Far too many lawsuits have been activist liberal groups forcing God completely out of public schools. What happened to "shall not establish nor prevent the free exercise thereof" ?
It got ignored by some judges who decided that God should not be in public schools. Which.... violates the "free exercise thereof". Makes no legal sense - but makes liberal activist sense. In effect - if the government refuses tax credits - they are deciding that the folks who can't afford to send their kids to a religious/private school... are second class citizens with no right to the free exercise of religion, and no right to the pursuit of happiness in their kid's education.
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And guess how the nea, state "ea"s and teachers unions feel about that. THEY HATE IT. They can't control/groom the minds of young children if they don't go to their school. And the left is self-defined - as justified in controlling. and grooming a new generation away from Real American parents. - I think teachers unions are more concerned about losing money to line their own pockets than "controlling the minds" of children, but you're not going to get an argument from me about the questionable usefulness of today's teachers unions.
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Granted, except all too often - some principal/teacher demands student(s) to not be allowed to silently pray, i.e., before their lunch, to themselves. A head coach can NOT tell all the players to pray. But he CAN pray. A liberal local government cannot have it both ways.
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So, Christian families PAY THE TAXES TOO, and that means they cannot, often, afford to pay for public schools, and still, to pursure their own Happiness, and Life/LIberty - have their kids go to the expensive Christian schools they choose.
God already knows - that home schoolers are already under the watchful eye and basic regulations by the state education associations/state legislators anyways. - Yes, because I don't think it's out of the realm of reason to have set minimum standards when it comes to education, i.e. reading/writing comprehension, mathematical competency, etc; things that couldn't be guaranteed otherwise by home-schooled education.
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Absolutely true. The government has every right to establish basic education requirements in math, science, reading......etc.
the problem is -- the teaching of anti-Christian family values. More than two genders? trans reading to students? trans bathrooms?
"God doesn't exist" ? "not allowed to ever pray" ? that list goes on and on. Public schools have been their own worst enemy all too often. And they get a free ride to be extremely liberal when they cannot be held accountable by parents. So, parents have no choice, but to choose schooling for their children outside of the public school system, when that happens. "Separation of church and state" means, cannot establish a religion, nor can it prevent the practice of one. Christian/private schools/home schools are a no brainer solution to the problem. Failure to let some tax breaks assist parents in their choice is just part of complying with the "shall not prohibit the free exercise thereof": part.]
It's complicated.
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I'm a big believer in "what is understood does not need to be said".
When this thread was started, EVERYBODY knew what the responses and supporting arguments were going to be. Nothing new, nothing insightful. Why Any of you guys still bother is beyond me. Must be a lot of masochists here.
Maybe when something that is rather new comes up, sure... I could see possible discussion. You are, the sort of you, each others secret best friends. You just don't know it.
I'm a big believer in "what is understood does not need to be said".
and yet...
When this thread was started, EVERYBODY knew what the responses and supporting arguments were going to be. Nothing new, nothing insightful. Why Any of you guys still bother is beyond me. Must be a lot of masochists here.
yep we all know what each other's responses will probably be. Including your own. Thanks.
Maybe when something that is rather new comes up, sure... I could see possible discussion. You are, the sort of you, each others secret best friends. You just don't know it.
there's not much new that goes on in the world. When you think of something let us know. If you have time go to the Browns board and count the number of posts and how many years do they go back regarding any particular topic. Offensive line quarterback coaching changes coordinators etc etc call me if you spot something brand new.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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