Deep Thoughts from Elk Fag
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I'm very openly a fan of the latest moves but the point of Flores is an important one. That Miami team intentionally torpedo their season. Flores, coached the hell out of that terrible team to 5 wins. Does anyone else not recognize that Hue Jackson can't find a job ANYWHERE?!! Nobody wants to hire him. Everyone including myself and the media, lauded the Browns when they hired him at the time but hindsight being 20/20, we couldn't have been more wrong. Once again, Dorsey has been ousted now twice within two years from two separate organizations (one of which has gone on to the SB without him). That has to tell you something about his management style. The Browns even tried to retain him recognizing his ability to see talent.
I'm skeptical of some of the latest moves with Wolf and Van Pelt, but there's only so much an organization can do to retain people who a) are able to come b) want to stay. Wolf wanted out even after the attempts were made by Berry to keep him. IMOP, this was probably because his butt got hurt with Berry being promoted and he didn't. Highsmith is not going to another organization, he's essentially retiring. I think the Stefanski really wanted McDaniels or LaFluer from SF as OC, but SF blocked those guys, as is their right to do.
This team has too much talent to go 1-31. Let's see what happens once the off-season parades are over and we can have a better idea of how well this "team" is put together. To preemptively judge how this organization is going to be run is ridiculous.
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Yes Haslam has proven to be a football owner moron. Can't argue any of the facts...But, quit looking behind the Wizards curtains
... Dolphins HC Bryan Flores is a perfect example, football is played between the white lines.. Get behind The Stefanski train to push this roster up the hill or simply jump off.. Go Brown$ !!
Yes Haslam has proven to be a football owner moron. Can't argue any of the facts...But, quit looking behind the Wizards curtains
... Dolphins HC Bryan Flores is a perfect example, football is played between the white lines.. Get behind The Stefanski train to push this roster up the hill or simply jump off.. Go Brown$ !!
So...what you're saying is...don't criticize anything. Just blindly support the ownership no matter what?.....or don't root for the Browns? Bottom line: I don't root for the Haslams, the Lerners, or anyone who has proven to be incompetent in assembling a competitive NFL team in Cleveland. Stefanski is unproven...just like Kitchens was. For me to get behind him will take some evidence that he is or can become a decent HC. The rest of this management...Depodesta, Berry, Haslams,....they can all take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.
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DePo is being ignored.. and this is proven by DePo's top recommendation as coach 2 years in a row now getting hired?
OK, then.
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DePo is being ignored.. and this is proven by DePo's top recommendation as coach 2 years in a row now getting hired?
OK, then.
DePo is being ignored.. and this is proven by DePo's top recommendation as coach 2 years in a row now getting hired?
OK, then.
.I thought Stefanski was his top recommendation
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You ask, you get... https://www.topendsports.com/testing/sparq-rating-system.htm
Sometimes sparq is helpful- but not every athletic freak turns out to be a top NFL player. OTOH, a guy like DK Metcalf probably blew the roof off with his sparq score.....
Ronaldo Nehemiah?
Ronaldo Nehemiah?
I've said it in many places. If a 40 time was a predictor of NFL success, Reynaldo would be in the HOF.
There's a term for these sort of players Gipper. Combine "workout warriors". Great measurables, but suck as football players. Our own Justin Gilbert & Barky Mingo, the Jets Vernon Gholston, and one of the all time busts, Jamarcus Russell qualify.
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What a difference a year makes. We were up and coming...new talent...optimistic...only question mark was Freddie. Credible players and coaches wanted to come here. Today, Haslam has succeeded in removing all the optimism of ever reaching mediocrity, let alone, the playoffs. He has once again reinforced his status as a moron among NFL owners. This team didn't just not live up to the hype of last season, they set a new standard for disappointment. How can a person who achieves the wealth this guy did, be so damn dumb? Or, is it like somebody else suggested?...did he buy the team with intentions of sabotaging us for life? While it was ridiculous when I first read that angle, I'm really starting to wonder. 0 - 16....our comfort zone....here we come again. Haslam = moron.
What a difference a year makes. We were up and coming...new talent...optimistic...only question mark was Freddie. Credible players and coaches wanted to come here. Today, Haslam has succeeded in removing all the optimism of ever reaching mediocrity, let alone, the playoffs. He has once again reinforced his status as a moron among NFL owners. This team didn't just not live up to the hype of last season, they set a new standard for disappointment. How can a person who achieves the wealth this guy did, be so damn dumb? Or, is it like somebody else suggested?...did he buy the team with intentions of sabotaging us for life? While it was ridiculous when I first read that angle, I'm really starting to wonder. 0 - 16....our comfort zone....here we come again. Haslam = moron.
Freddie there you have it. And who promoted Kitchens? Dorsey. The Chiefs seem to be doing OK without him. John wasn't willing to admit a huge mistake and work with the rest of the FO, so he's gone. His departure can't be pinned on Haslam. Sure, we were 6-10 last year, but we probably could have won at least 4 more with better coaching, and now we're going to sink to 1-15 with the same roster? At first impression, Stefansky has more intelligence and organizational skills in his foot than Freddie has in his entire body.
The key to the whole "process" if you will is if Haslam, Berry, and Depodesta have learned from their mistakes. I'm willing to at least give them a chance.
I get where your coming from. But the local papers, radio and tv reporters along with most others are pretty down on this system. Or I should say Haslams. They’re just con artists. Let us know when they’re gone. Go Browns
bye bye jimmydee
It failed before, it's certainly going to fail again. Time will tell. You can call the Haslam's incompetent, but they're certainly not con artists. They sincerely want to win. So far, their methods have failed. Gipper can confirm a few years ago Jimmy came down and was hanging out at the Tennessee Browns Backers tailgate before the Titans game. How many owners would do that? Or bartend before the London game?
Said it before, a bunch of us oldsters are running out of time.
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DePo is being ignored.. and this is proven by DePo's top recommendation as coach 2 years in a row now getting hired?
OK, then.
.I thought Stefanski was his top recommendation
I thought Stefanski was his (Depodesta's) top recommendation
Overruled by Dorsey. Que up Sinatra's "My Way" for John.
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Yes Haslam has proven to be a football owner moron. Can't argue any of the facts...But, quit looking behind the Wizards curtains
... Dolphins HC Bryan Flores is a perfect example, football is played between the white lines.. Get behind The Stefanski train to push this roster up the hill or simply jump off.. Go Brown$ !!
So...what you're saying is...don't criticize anything. Just blindly support the ownership no matter what?.....or don't root for the Browns? Bottom line: I don't root for the Haslams, the Lerners, or anyone who has proven to be incompetent in assembling a competitive NFL team in Cleveland. Stefanski is unproven...just like Kitchens was. For me to get behind him will take some evidence that he is or can become a decent HC. The rest of this management...Depodesta, Berry, Haslams,....they can all take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.
So...what you're saying is...don't criticize anything. Just blindly support the ownership no matter what?.....or don't root for the Browns? Bottom line: I don't root for the Haslams, the Lerners, or anyone who has proven to be incompetent in assembling a competitive NFL team in Cleveland. Stefanski is unproven...just like Kitchens was. For me to get behind him will take some evidence that he is or can become a decent HC. The rest of this management...Depodesta, Berry, Haslams,....they can all take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.
Who said anything about blind support? I certainly said it- SHOW ME this time around.
I get the years of losing and failed expectations have caused plenty of fans to take a jaundiced eye towards anything Browns. But this time around, the acid criticism right out of the gate without even giving the Front Office and Coaches a chance is over the top. MHO.
Regarding Stefansky being "unproven" 90%+ of all head coach hires are unproven first time around. And the failure rate of "proven" retread head coaches is spectacular, with few exceptions. Hue and Shure-loss for starters, and I could probably come up with at least a dozen others if I bothered to think about it for a minute.
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So...what you're saying is...don't criticize anything. Just blindly support the ownership no matter what?.....or don't root for the Browns? Bottom line: I don't root for the Haslams, the Lerners, or anyone who has proven to be incompetent in assembling a competitive NFL team in Cleveland. Stefanski is unproven...just like Kitchens was. For me to get behind him will take some evidence that he is or can become a decent HC. The rest of this management...Depodesta, Berry, Haslams,....they can all take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.
Who said anything about blind support? I certainly said it- SHOW ME this time around.
I get the years of losing and failed expectations have caused plenty of fans to take a jaundiced eye towards anything Browns. But this time around, the acid criticism right out of the gate without even giving the Front Office and Coaches a chance is over the top. MHO.
Regarding Stefansky being "unproven" 90%+ of all head coach hires are unproven first time around. And the failure rate of "proven" retread head coaches is spectacular, with few exceptions. Hue and Shure-loss for starters, and I could probably come up with at least a dozen others if I bothered to think about it for a minute.
Who said anything about blind support? I certainly said it- SHOW ME this time around.
I get the years of losing and failed expectations have caused plenty of fans to take a jaundiced eye towards anything Browns. But this time around, the acid criticism right out of the gate without even giving the Front Office and Coaches a chance is over the top. MHO.
Regarding Stefansky being "unproven" 90%+ of all head coach hires are unproven first time around. And the failure rate of "proven" retread head coaches is spectacular, with few exceptions. Hue and Shure-loss for starters, and I could probably come up with at least a dozen others if I bothered to think about it for a minute.
Exactly right.
These guys all deserve the fans support until they prove that they don't deserve it when the games are actually being played. Just like with Freddie last year. I loved everything he said last offseason and I really thought and hoped he would be a very good HC. He proved he wasn't ready for the job by his performance as a HC when the games started. Hopefully Stefanski is a guy who can make the leap from coordinator to HC and be very good at the job. I think he can....at least until he proves that he can't.
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Who said anything about blind support? I certainly said it- SHOW ME this time around.
I get the years of losing and failed expectations have caused plenty of fans to take a jaundiced eye towards anything Browns. But this time around, the acid criticism right out of the gate without even giving the Front Office and Coaches a chance is over the top. MHO.
Regarding Stefansky being "unproven" 90%+ of all head coach hires are unproven first time around. And the failure rate of "proven" retread head coaches is spectacular, with few exceptions. Hue and Shure-loss for starters, and I could probably come up with at least a dozen others if I bothered to think about it for a minute.
Exactly right.
These guys all deserve the fans support until they prove that they don't deserve it when the games are actually being played. Just like with Freddie last year. I loved everything he said last offseason and I really thought and hoped he would be a very good HC. He proved he wasn't ready for the job by his performance as a HC when the games started. Hopefully Stefanski is a guy who can make the leap from coordinator to HC and be very good at the job. I think he can....at least until he proves that he can't.
Exactly right.
These guys all deserve the fans support until they prove that they don't deserve it when the games are actually being played. Just like with Freddie last year. I loved everything he said last offseason and I really thought and hoped he would be a very good HC. He proved he wasn't ready for the job by his performance as a HC when the games started. Hopefully Stefanski is a guy who can make the leap from coordinator to HC and be very good at the job. I think he can....at least until he proves that he can't.
These cock suckers deserve nothing!... They must EARN IT!!
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Exactly right.
These guys all deserve the fans support until they prove that they don't deserve it when the games are actually being played. Just like with Freddie last year. I loved everything he said last offseason and I really thought and hoped he would be a very good HC. He proved he wasn't ready for the job by his performance as a HC when the games started. Hopefully Stefanski is a guy who can make the leap from coordinator to HC and be very good at the job. I think he can....at least until he proves that he can't.
These cock suckers deserve nothing!... They must EARN IT!!
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Ronaldo Nehemiah?
I've said it in many places. If a 40 time was a predictor of NFL success, Reynaldo would be in the HOF.
There's a term for these sort of players Gipper. Combine "workout warriors". Great measurables, but suck as football players. Our own Justin Gilbert & Barky Mingo, the Jets Vernon Gholston, and one of the all time busts, Jamarcus Russell qualify.
I've said it in many places. If a 40 time was a predictor of NFL success, Reynaldo would be in the HOF.
There's a term for these sort of players Gipper. Combine "workout warriors". Great measurables, but suck as football players. Our own Justin Gilbert & Barky Mingo, the Jets Vernon Gholston, and one of the all time busts, Jamarcus Russell qualify.
That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career!
At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine.
- Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year.
- Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season.
So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances.
Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine.
Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"analytics" doesn't say anything by itself.
"analytics" doesn't make a decision.
"analytics" is a tool - literally no different than the 3-cone time.
If you like tomato soup, crackers, and salad when looking at a menu, that's analytics.. you have decided those 3 items are the best way to make one thing called "Lunch." I like brisket, brussels sprouts, and scotch - also for lunch.
Who's definitively correct? That depends - if you're a man you like scotch, but we'll leave that for the politics forum.
Analytics is the lunch menu. Analytics CANNOT make any decisions for you --- because by definition the team has to decide what they believe is important before any numbers matter.
Classic example of teams ignoring player strengths/weaknesses: Vernon Gholston. Jets drafted a 260-pound 4-3 DE, asked him to play OLB and cover RB's in the flat, and were shocked he couldn't? That's not a failure of analytics, that's not properly using the data that they had, including each of their scouts telling them he wasn't a top10 pick... Blaming that pick on "analytics" is entirely passing the buck! Of course, the Jets had done this before.. in 1984 they drafted Ron Faurot in the first round as a DE, attempted to convert him to LB, and released him in the middle of his second season.
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Exactly right.
These guys all deserve the fans support until they prove that they don't deserve it when the games are actually being played. Just like with Freddie last year. I loved everything he said last offseason and I really thought and hoped he would be a very good HC. He proved he wasn't ready for the job by his performance as a HC when the games started. Hopefully Stefanski is a guy who can make the leap from coordinator to HC and be very good at the job. I think he can....at least until he proves that he can't.
These cock suckers deserve nothing!... They must EARN IT!!
These cock suckers deserve nothing!... They must EARN IT!!
Um, that's what I've been saying nickers, but they do deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven that they don't deserve it.
Not like, well- this is gonna suck again right out of the gate.
PS I see Z has been at work with the thread title. All the Mods get notified when we have to put on our Mod hats for misbehavior. FWIW, Telling a Moderator f-you is a good way to get a time out, especially if you're on the low side of 100 posts.
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I've said it in many places. If a 40 time was a predictor of NFL success, Reynaldo would be in the HOF.
There's a term for these sort of players Gipper. Combine "workout warriors". Great measurables, but suck as football players. Our own Justin Gilbert & Barky Mingo, the Jets Vernon Gholston, and one of the all time busts, Jamarcus Russell qualify.
That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career!
At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine.
- Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year.
- Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season.
So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances.
Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine.
Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE.
That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career!
At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine.
- Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year.
- Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season.
So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances.
Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine.
Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE.
Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track stars to make the jump to the NFL.
I probably misstated what I wanted to say. A high sparq score doesn't guarantee success in the pros. Then you have the skinny kid from Michigan who turned into the GOAT of quarterbacks.
I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. Have to admit this year I've spent around no time doing my scouting, except for Joe Burrow and the usual Ohio State suspects.
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That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career!
At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine.
- Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year.
- Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season.
So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances.
Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine.
Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE.
Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track stars to make the jump to the NFL.
I probably misstated what I wanted to say. A high sparq score doesn't guarantee success in the pros. Then you have the skinny kid from Michigan who turned into the GOAT of quarterbacks.
I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. Have to admit this year I've spent around no time doing my scouting, except for Joe Burrow and the usual Ohio State suspects.
Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track stars to make the jump to the NFL.
I probably misstated what I wanted to say. A high sparq score doesn't guarantee success in the pros. Then you have the skinny kid from Michigan who turned into the GOAT of quarterbacks.
I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. Have to admit this year I've spent around no time doing my scouting, except for Joe Burrow and the usual Ohio State suspects.
Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do.
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Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track stars to make the jump to the NFL.
I probably misstated what I wanted to say. A high sparq score doesn't guarantee success in the pros. Then you have the skinny kid from Michigan who turned into the GOAT of quarterbacks.
I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. Have to admit this year I've spent around no time doing my scouting, except for Joe Burrow and the usual Ohio State suspects.
Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do.
Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do.
Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do.
Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...
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Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do.
Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...
Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...
Couple of things nickers.
1) Did you bother to listen to any of Depodesta's press conferences? He certainly doesn't come off as an egomaniac, far from it.
2) Stefansky no audible system? Where did you hear that? BTW, the last Browns coach to win a Championship- Blanton Collier certainly didn't impress me as an Alpha Male. Add plenty of Super Bowl winning coaches to that list.
3) If Andrew Berry blows, then Jimmy Haslam would have to be a certified cretin to bring him back if he thought Andy was a major factor in 0-16. Haslam has to have at least two communicating neurons.
4) Nah, Dorsey served Browns fans up a hot mess of not ready for Prime Time Freddie Kitchens, over drafted Austin Corbett, and shouldn't have been drafted Antonio Callaway. Because he had all the answers, and wouldn't listen to anyone else. Just maybe the Browns can go to the Super Bowl like the Chiefs did after they told The Dorse adios.
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