Quinn's 51 yard pass - video clip
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Quote from Quinn today post game (via OBR transcript):
(On if he has been throwing deep more to get reps or to shed the image that he can’t go deep) – “You are the guys who have been saying that. I’ve never shied away from throwing a deep ball. I just try to be smart with the football. I take what the defense gives me and I’m not going to force a throw. Today, we had a guy who got open down field and that’s the type of offense I like to run. I like to have ball control, control the clock, manage the game, and make plays when they are there, but not force things. We are trying to play smart football and that’s the kind of football I like to play.”
Quote from Quinn today post game (via OBR transcript):
(On if he has been throwing deep more to get reps or to shed the image that he can’t go deep) – “You are the guys who have been saying that. I’ve never shied away from throwing a deep ball. I just try to be smart with the football. I take what the defense gives me and I’m not going to force a throw. Today, we had a guy who got open down field and that’s the type of offense I like to run. I like to have ball control, control the clock, manage the game, and make plays when they are there, but not force things. We are trying to play smart football and that’s the kind of football I like to play.”
Quinn is very smart and has the markings of a smart QB.
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Throwing deep 60 yards, and throwing accurate ropes on deep crosses and out patterns are two different animals, folks. Not saying he can't do it, but just because he unloaded a bomb doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Think of how many times he'll throw deep like that in a game, and then how many times he'll need 16-18 yards for first down or have to punt.
I could throw that pass he threw when I was 26 as well. Most people I played with could.
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Throwing deep 60 yards, and throwing accurate ropes on deep crosses and out patterns are two different animals, folks. Not saying he can't do it, but just because he unloaded a bomb doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Think of how many times he'll throw deep like that in a game, and then how many times he'll need 16-18 yards for first down or have to punt.
I could throw that pass he threw when I was 26 as well. Most people I played with could.
Throwing deep 60 yards, and throwing accurate ropes on deep crosses and out patterns are two different animals, folks. Not saying he can't do it, but just because he unloaded a bomb doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Think of how many times he'll throw deep like that in a game, and then how many times he'll need 16-18 yards for first down or have to punt.
I could throw that pass he threw when I was 26 as well. Most people I played with could.
Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
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If we are talking deep outs, comebacks, crossings, etc (essentially 15~20 yard passes), Quinn has shown he can throw those in college, preseason, and even in the DEN game.
Everyone has been questioning his over the top deep ball. He has the arm, but his accuracy has been off. See a Jason post for explaination ont his.
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I know its one pass, but I recall clearly a ball he threw in preseason last year off his back foot (had pressure in his face) and fired a rope downfield for a 15-20 yard completion. It may have been Steve Sanders on the receiving end if I'm getting the name right?
Anyway, it stuck out to me as an example of arm strength that matters: intermediate routes that require a ton of velocity.
This is obviously a gigantic strength of DA's. Really the most impressive thing about his game and unteachable. I remember shaking my head (with a smile on my face) at some of the small windows of space that DA fit passes into.
Quinn probably doesn't have that kind of arm, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he can't "stuff it in there" at an NFL level.
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Throwing deep 60 yards, and throwing accurate ropes on deep crosses and out patterns are two different animals, folks. Not saying he can't do it, but just because he unloaded a bomb doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Think of how many times he'll throw deep like that in a game, and then how many times he'll need 16-18 yards for first down or have to punt.
I could throw that pass he threw when I was 26 as well. Most people I played with could.
Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
You guys crack me up. First, you spout over and over he doesn't go downfield and can't throw the deep ball. So, after he's shown he can in practice and in a game-like scrimmage, you now say, "Well, yeah, but can he throw a 15-20 yard out."
Jees, never heard any questions before about his mid range throws from you guys. In fact most everyone here has said that that is his strength/advantage over DA. You honestly think he or any QB would be a 1st round pick if they couldn't throw a 15-20 yard out?? Come on now.
But, now all of a sudden you gotta find something else to nitpick. Just give the kid a chance to prove it on the field. We already found out DA can't last season.
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There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
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There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
So now it's the 30-35 yard pass into a tight window? Man, what next, the 40-42 yard corner over 3 defenders into the back of the end zone off of his back foot while being hit by a DE....in the rain?
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There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.
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Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
You guys crack me up. First, you spout over and over he doesn't go downfield and can't throw the deep ball. So, after he's shown he can in practice and in a game-like scrimmage, you now say, "Well, yeah, but can he throw a 15-20 yard out."
Jees, never heard any questions before about his mid range throws from you guys. In fact most everyone here has said that that is his strength/advantage over DA. You honestly think he or any QB would be a 1st round pick if they couldn't throw a 15-20 yard out?? Come on now.
But, now all of a sudden you gotta find something else to nitpick. Just give the kid a chance to prove it on the field. We already found out DA can't last season.
But, now all of a sudden you gotta find something else to nitpick. Just give the kid a chance to prove it on the field. We already found out DA can't last season.
I never questioned his ability to throw long. I've watched him play more than many being a ND fan. All I was saying is just because he can throw long - something I knew he could do - doesn't mean he can throw the rope on an out or crossing pattern.
Not nitpicking, it is just my experience with Quinn watching practically every game for the Irish, he was not required to throw many crossing routes or deep outs. Doesn't mean he can't do it.
It is perfectly okay to ask about his strengths and weaknesess, man. I am not going to stop questioning his abilities until I see for myself.
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The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.
Masters said:
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bombs.
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Masters said:
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bombs.
Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bomb.
I'd say anything past 20 yards and you're pushing it, but that's me. I'd certainly agree the ability to throw the 15~20 yard out, in, post, etc. is far more important.
I have just never seen any question on Quinn's arm stregth to throw that with zip or accuracy. Heck, I have seen him throw it in the DEN game last year, as well as the last two years of preseason work.
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"I am not going to stop questioning his abilities until I see for myself."
And that's why I want to see him too. We need to see him have a 8-10 game stretch of reg. season games to see what our future is. We know it ain't DA. Give the kid his shot, if he and DA (who's had over 25+ games of NFL experience), are "even", why not go with the guy you have questions about and has been "prepared" for an NFL offense? DA had his shot, ended up 4-12. We can't really do any worse.
Our offense was floundering last year and Quinn comes in and puts up 30 2 games in a row. Let's see what he's made of.
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Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bomb.
I'd say anything past 20 yards and you're pushing it, but that's me. I'd certainly agree the ability to throw the 15~20 yard out, in, post, etc. is far more important.
I have just never seen any question on Quinn's arm stregth to throw that with zip or accuracy. Heck, I have seen him throw it in the DEN game last year, as well as the last two years of preseason work.
Masters said:
I'd say anything past 20 yards and you're pushing it, but that's me. I'd certainly agree the ability to throw the 15~20 yard out, in, post, etc. is far more important.I have just never seen any question on Quinn's arm stregth to throw that with zip or accuracy. Heck, I have seen him throw it in the DEN game last year, as well as the last two years of preseason work.
I always thought the classic debate was that DA had the 15-25 yard throws locked down, that he was a great intermediate passer, and that his flaw was the short game... meaning screens and dumpoffs for 5-10 yards. And that Quinn had the short game down pat and there were questions about his zip and accuracy downfield (15-25 yards).
I don't think the worry was that Quinn couldn't throw the ball 65 yards in the air. Almost every NFL QB can do that.
The worry is about the intermediate game with zip and accuracy. No one was ever concerned that Quinn couldn't throw a bomb.
I'm not saying I don't think Quinn can be a great intermediate passer... I'm just saying I think that's what the debate is and always has been.
So... trying to say a few 60 yard passes hear and there totally clears the air on Quinn's passing ability isn't right because it isn't even relevant to what the real debate has always been about Quinn as a passer. The intermediate game with zip and accuracy. I know you didn't originally say that, but SoCal WAS trying to say those bombs cleared the air on his passing ability and that now we're trying to "change the argument" to the intermediate passing debate. That's what the questions about Quinn have always been.
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@shepwrite said:
Just to clear a few things up...No, the ability to throw a football 60 yards in the air is not common. That's bullshit. I watched a 1990s quarterback competition, with no pads and unlimited run-ups and windups, and McNair won it throwing 72. Kerry Collins (big arm) went 62. Jim Harbaugh was 56 and said that was really good for him.
I watched a college QB competition with Drew Stanton, Vince Young, and others... and Stanton won with 62 yards.
Vince Young can't throw a football. Probably no one else of note was in the competition.
NFL QB's can throw the football 60 yards in the air. Besides, I don't think Quinn has done it yet you just up the distance every time you say something about it.
Maybe a Pennington here and a Frye there can't. But other than that, they can.
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@shepwrite said:
Throwing with pads from a plant and throw? No. Not every NFL starter can go 60. And about 1% of the adult male population, I'm guessing.The question is about consistent accuracy.
Bro, do you know how long 60 yards is? I wasn't a QB and I could throw it close to 50 @ 26 yrs old. 60 is not a "1% of the population" throw.
When I watch fast action NFL football, throwing an out or crossing pattern at 16-20 yards needs to be a rope. Sure on a pro-day or combine he makes the throw. I am just wondering if he can make those in a game, with pressure, on time and without getting picked. Because a guy who - so far - has been reported to check down a lot, I question if he has the confidence or authority to make those 16-20 yarders on time, target and with velocity. That is my definition of an NFL arm, not rainbows that happen maybe once or twice a game.
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Quinn doesn't have arm strength problems. Period. This is nuts. It may or may not be top shelf, but it's plenty. His success will depend on accuracy and his drive to be better (like the Peter King info on his study of Tom Brady's footwork).
If Quinn fails, it will not be because he couldn't get it there.
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Quinn doesn't have arm strength problems. Period. This is nuts. It may or may not be top shelf, but it's plenty. His success will depend on accuracy and his drive to be better (like the Peter King info on his study of Tom Brady's footwork).
If Quinn fails, it will not be because he couldn't get it there.
If Quinn fails, it will not be because he couldn't get it there.
And that is what I want to see. Get it there, on time, with velocity and accuracy, on 3rd and 16, with a pass rush. Never said he couldn't, I just question whether he can because like all of us, we don't know what we have. I question nothing else about this kid but that.
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@shepwrite said:
I'm betting 1 in every 100 adult males can throw a football 60 yards in the air. But about 15 times that believe they can.Hell, most adult males can't throw 50.
Totally agree.
But... about 1 in every 10,000,000 adult males play QB in the NFL. So I'm guessing they're mostly part of that elite 1/100 ratio you spoke of.
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