The end all be all thread regarding quinns arm strength...
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@shepwrite said:
Steve Doerschuck watched Quinn throw the ball 70 yards to the corner of the end zone. He wrote about it.Okay and exactly HOW OFTEN will the pass rushes of Pittsburgh and Baltimore ALLOW our QB the 5-7 step drops required to execute such a throw? Seriously.
I don't give a rat how far they can throw it. Kordell Stewart could throw a ball a country mile - wasn't that college rope he threw 75 yards to beat Michigan on the final play? Guess how many times he did this on an NFL playoff team? The first and only time was the 12th of Never. Why do you suppose that is?
Remember how many knuckleheads fell in love with Kyle Boller because he could allegedly throw a ball almost 60 yards from his knees? That does alot of good when he has the vision of Mr Magoo on the football field. It's no wonder he's named after a sport that features the gutter ball. What a squid!
I heard SO MUCH crap about Sipe's weak arm all the way up until he got his first FREAKIN chance. It couldn't have been further from the truth. And when you hit November and December on Lake Erie's shores - how realistic is it to plan some 60-65 yard passes?
Come on - what do you say we get back to a little reality about what division we play in and WHERE these games are played.
- Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
@shepwrite said:
Steve Doerschuck watched Quinn throw the ball 70 yards to the corner of the end zone. He wrote about it.Okay and exactly HOW OFTEN will the pass rushes of Pittsburgh and Baltimore ALLOW our QB the 5-7 step drops required to execute such a throw? Seriously.
I don't give a rat how far they can throw it. Kordell Stewart could throw a ball a country mile - wasn't that college rope he threw 75 yards to beat Michigan on the final play? Guess how many times he did this on an NFL playoff team? The first and only time was the 12th of Never. Why do you suppose that is?
Remember how many knuckleheads fell in love with Kyle Boller because he could allegedly throw a ball almost 60 yards from his knees? That does alot of good when he has the vision of Mr Magoo on the football field. It's no wonder he's named after a sport that features the gutter ball. What a squid!
I heard SO MUCH crap about Sipe's weak arm all the way up until he got his first FREAKIN chance. It couldn't have been further from the truth. And when you hit November and December on Lake Erie's shores - how realistic is it to plan some 60-65 yard passes?
Come on - what do you say we get back to a little reality about what division we play in and WHERE these games are played.
- Tom F.
Okay and exactly HOW OFTEN will the pass rushes of Pittsburgh and Baltimore ALLOW our QB the 5-7 step drops required to execute such a throw? Seriously.
I don't give a rat how far they can throw it. Kordell Stewart could throw a ball a country mile - wasn't that college rope he threw 75 yards to beat Michigan on the final play? Guess how many times he did this on an NFL playoff team? The first and only time was the 12th of Never. Why do you suppose that is?
Remember how many knuckleheads fell in love with Kyle Boller because he could allegedly throw a ball almost 60 yards from his knees? That does alot of good when he has the vision of Mr Magoo on the football field. It's no wonder he's named after a sport that features the gutter ball. What a squid!
I heard SO MUCH crap about Sipe's weak arm all thew way up until he got his first FREAKIN chance. It couldn't have been further from the truth. And when you hit November and December on Lake Erie's shores - how realistic is it to plan some 60-65 yard passes?
Come - what do you say we get back to a little reality about what division we play in and WHERE these games are played.
- Tom F.
Game. Set. Match. Anyone who tries to dispute that will fail.
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@shepwrite said:
Steve Doerschuck watched Quinn throw the ball 70 yards to the corner of the end zone. He wrote about it.Okay and exactly HOW OFTEN will the pass rushes of Pittsburgh and Baltimore ALLOW our QB the 5-7 step drops required to execute such a throw? Seriously.
I don't give a rat how far they can throw it. Kordell Stewart could throw a ball a country mile - wasn't that college rope he threw 75 yards to beat Michigan on the final play? Guess how many times he did this on an NFL playoff team? The first and only time was the 12th of Never. Why do you suppose that is?
Remember how many knuckleheads fell in love with Kyle Boller because he could allegedly throw a ball almost 60 yards from his knees? That does alot of good when he has the vision of Mr Magoo on the football field. It's no wonder he's named after a sport that features the gutter ball. What a squid!
I heard SO MUCH crap about Sipe's weak arm all the way up until he got his first FREAKIN chance. It couldn't have been further from the truth. And when you hit November and December on Lake Erie's shores - how realistic is it to plan some 60-65 yard passes?
Come on - what do you say we get back to a little reality about what division we play in and WHERE these games are played.
- Tom F.
Okay and exactly HOW OFTEN will the pass rushes of Pittsburgh and Baltimore ALLOW our QB the 5-7 step drops required to execute such a throw? Seriously.
I don't give a rat how far they can throw it. Kordell Stewart could throw a ball a country mile - wasn't that college rope he threw 75 yards to beat Michigan on the final play? Guess how many times he did this on an NFL playoff team? The first and only time was the 12th of Never. Why do you suppose that is?
Remember how many knuckleheads fell in love with Kyle Boller because he could allegedly throw a ball almost 60 yards from his knees? That does alot of good when he has the vision of Mr Magoo on the football field. It's no wonder he's named after a sport that features the gutter ball. What a squid!
I heard SO MUCH crap about Sipe's weak arm all thew way up until he got his first FREAKIN chance. It couldn't have been further from the truth. And when you hit November and December on Lake Erie's shores - how realistic is it to plan some 60-65 yard passes?
Come - what do you say we get back to a little reality about what division we play in and WHERE these games are played.
- Tom F.
Agree. Slam dunk.
Additionally, let's make a list of successful Browns QB's who had a stronger arm than DA. Uhm, zero.
Next, isn't there something called the west coast offense which successfully carried the load with short and medium range passes? Yep, there is.
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Zombo said:
Arm strengh matters. It's not just the deep balls and outs, it's consistently throwing with zip, which gives you that extra fraction of a second to beat a defender. Bret Favre wasn't known as a big arm because of his bombs, but because of the incredible zip on his 15-20 yard throws. Anderson's zip and quick release give him a physical edge over Quinn, who needs to be the more consistent and accurate passer to win out.Accuracy, consistency and playmaking ... that's what will win it.
Zombo
--at least you guys are coming around ... when I first started pointing this out, I don't think most of you thought it was a real competition.
Well then Quinn is doing something else right as DA's lifelong INT% is higher than Quinns, so I'm not sure what he's doing with the fraction of a second you speak of.
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Well then Quinn is doing something else right as DA's lifelong INT% is higher than Quinns, so I'm not sure what he's doing with the fraction of a second you speak of.
Jeff George had a canon.
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@shepwrite said:
Now, in support of Tom's post, that's about your pass blocking, too... especially your left tackle. If your QB doesn't have time for a receiver to get 25 yards downfield so he can throw 45, they can risk moving the safeties up.Good point. Do you remember how we started off against the New Orleans Saints in 2006? It was seemingly an 80 yard TD pass from Frye to Braylon Edwards. True story. Just as true as the yellow flag laying at Kevin Shaffer's feet telling us there will be no extra point because it's now 1st and 20 from our own 10 yard line.
I've also seen Peyton Manning go from warm indoors to NE's snow covered ground in January and struggle to lead his team to 3 points. All of a sudden, he's sackable and footballs are slipping out of his hands at the release. They didn't even CONSIDER throwing anything longer than 20-25 yards. Welcome to what the rest of the league plays in Peyton. It's not Peyton's Place - it's reality. Last year in Cleveland, the ONLY TD Indy scored was on DA's fumble return when you think of how they got their 10 points.
A BIG part of this all is the LUCK of where these QBs play their HOME games. Your dome guys up in Minnesota have put up some pretty steller numbers over the years. Want proof? Here's Randall Cunningham like never seen before at 35 years of age:
Year Age Tm Pos G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rating
1998 35 MIN QB 15 14 259 425 60.9 3704 34 10 106.0
Warner liked his dome in St Louis before going to the dry warm climate of Arizona. That matters more than we think. Climate and location in the Fall & Winter change how vertical teams can plan on going. That's WHY I find myself a little more appreciative of guys like Sipe, Kosar, Favre, Kelly, McNabb and Brady than some of the spoiled fellers indoors, with a dry football and no wind or cold. The warm weather guys enjoy the perks as well.
If one likes DA for the stronger arm - he's playing in the wrong city. If I was Loverboy, I'd rather have DA in Minnesota where we wouldn't have to listen to him crying about Mother Nature's PMS.
- Tom F.
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Yep, a big arm can make a difference on game day. Just look at Jeff George, Kyle Boller, Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, etc. Cannons for arms and boy did it make a difference on Sundays.
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Zombo said:
I'm talking about making plays, not avoiding Interceptions.Anderson threw for 29 TDs in 2007 and a lot of it was beating the defender.
Zombo
His inconsistencies and annual regressions are maddening though.
In 2007 I was often asked by rival fans - "WHO did you beat?" Here's why they would ask such a thing:
Miami 1-15
St Louis 3-13
SF 5-11
Balt 5-11
Balt 5-11
NY Jets 4-12
Buffalo 7-9
Cincy 7-9
Houston 8-8
Seattle 10-6
avg 5-11
Aside from that, the 4-12 Raiders and 8-8 Cardinals beat us. I was trying to be honest when I said ALL last preseason, DA is going to need to beat the good teams in our conference for many of us to feel he's the RIGHT guy. In 3 years, guess how many AFC teams with more than 8 wins he has beaten? 0. Two of those games last year were 10-6 losses only re-assuring me DA is not the answer.
- Tom F.
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I am leaning to the neither is the answer camp. Though I will say that if you put DA in the conditions you mentioned flug then I do think he will be successful. Since BQ seems to mirror DA I would have to say in the right situation he probably would be successful also. But I am leaning to the Move DA asap camp, let BQ have the year and then draft a real QB next year and let him play behind BQ for a year. then trade BQ. The only QB that seems to be playing like he wants the job is Ratliff.
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Zombo said:
I'm talking about making plays, not avoiding Interceptions.Anderson threw for 29 TDs in 2007 and a lot of it was beating the defender.
No one denies his other faults and inconsistency in his young career so far ... but if you don't think that big arm can make a difference on games days ... and to the coaching staff ... you're fooling yourselves.
Zombo
I like a strong arm too. However, arm strength is just one of the many variables in the good QB's equation for success.
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I am leaning to the neither is the answer camp. Though I will say that if you put DA in the conditions you mentioned flug then I do think he will be successful. Since BQ seems to mirror DA I would have to say in the right situation he probably would be successful also. But I am leaning to the Move DA asap camp, let BQ have the year and then draft a real QB next year and let him play behind BQ for a year. then trade BQ. The only QB that seems to be playing like he wants the job is Ratliff.
I am leaning to the neither is the answer camp. Though I will say that if you put DA in the conditions you mentioned flug then I do think he will be successful. Since BQ seems to mirror DA I would have to say in the right situation he probably would be successful also. But I am leaning to the Move DA asap camp, let BQ have the year and then draft a real QB next year and let him play behind BQ for a year. then trade BQ. The only QB that seems to be playing like he wants the job is Ratliff.
Thanks for the reply CMAC. I'd just like to see what we have in Quinn since we gave up alot to get him. I was surprised Minnesota didn't even consider DA. Then he would have had an elite defense, elite running game, dry football, no wind, no cold and NO 1st round alternative the fans are wondering about. Childress brought an offense where the QB has to read through progressions so I'm sure he looked at DA on film. DA's BEST throws are timing patterns where he's not asked to think or speed read. In 07 when he had time for the 5 step drops he was hitting the post patterns and flag patterns off the plant. The blitz took away the 5 step drops and he was forced to speed read. That was the difference between Cincy I and 4 INTS at Cincy.
In 2008, the Atlanta Falcons did exactly what we did on the previous draft day. QB & LT in round 1 and added a free agent RB with something to prove. They were in the same place we were the year we drafted Quinn. The difference was they believed in what they did and were willing to endure growing pains if need be. I've never understood why we would draft a young QB the way we did ONLY to start another young QB nobody was interested in. You have to admit - when he became available this offseason, teams needing QBs either said "we'll just draft one" or we'll sign other guys.
I'm delighted to hear Ratliff is impressing people. That's great news for us.
- Tom F.
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How many different ways is it possible to persecute yourselves on this topic?
It's Quinns destiny to play for the Browns
Now sit back and enjoy!!
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