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Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.
I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.
Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)
Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.
Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?
Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.
I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.
Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)
Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.
Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?
Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.
Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.
I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.
Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)
Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.
Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?
Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.
- Will do on the color.
- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time, can take as long to develop as a post. What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him. We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action. That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.
- Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things. But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.
- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
-
Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.
I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.
Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)
Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.
Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?
Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.
- Will do on the color.
- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time, can take as long to develop as a post. What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him. We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action. That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.
- Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things. But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.
- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
- Will do on the color.
- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time, can take as long to develop as a post. What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him. We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action. That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.
- Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things. But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.
- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
You have done a lot of scouting, why don't you get in on the Board draft with a couple of teams.
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Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.
I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.
Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)
Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.
Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?
Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.
- Will do on the color.
- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time, can take as long to develop as a post. What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him. We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action. That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.
- Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things. But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.
- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
- - Will do on the color.
- - the field side
- - Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- - Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
- Thanks.
- "field side" meaning "from the center of the field towards the outside (or boundary)?
- "MEG call"?
- OK... but how do I know which routes are trees and which are set? I mean once a WR (or TE) picks from a tree it looks like a set route?
Sorry, but trying to be sure my vocabulary is keeping up.
Also on trees... are they more likely to be incorporated into pass designs when there are fewer receivers on the field?
Thanks....
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
- - Will do on the color.
- - the field side
- - Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- - Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
- Thanks.
- "field side" meaning "from the center of the field towards the outside (or boundary)?
- "MEG call"?
- OK... but how do I know which routes are trees and which are set? I mean once a WR (or TE) picks from a tree it looks like a set route?
Sorry, but trying to be sure my vocabulary is keeping up.
Also on trees... are they more likely to be incorporated into pass designs when there are fewer receivers on the field?
Thanks....
- Thanks.
- "field side" meaning "from the center of the field towards the outside (or boundary)?
- "MEG call"?
- OK... but how do I know which routes are trees and which are set? I mean once a WR (or TE) picks from a tree it looks like a set route?
Sorry, but trying to be sure my vocabulary is keeping up.
Also on trees... are they more likely to be incorporated into pass designs when there are fewer receivers on the field?
Thanks....
2 - route begins from the field (wide) side and breaks in. That's a LOT of ground to cover.
3 - MEG. Man Everywhere he Goes.
4 - Route combinations are all devised and executed as concepts to exploit anticipated defenses, you already knew that. Some teams, such as the Pats, simply utilize and master the concept itself regardless of personnel alignment. Which means any routes the receiver runs in that particular concept, their TE's and Backs have to know as well. That is where the notorious labels of the Pats offense being so formless and difficult to learn began. In time the mastery comes along with developing variables to how they call it or how their receivers run the play. I.E. vs varying route depths, play styles off DB's (bump, off, press) spot drop vs pattern zone or man coverage and making their adjustments vs certain coverages, leveraging the routes, etc etc. Which the QB has to also process and trust they're in sync. Many teams don't have such complexity and, short branch to go out on, I suspect the Browns are one of those teams. So when plays are called for Cleveland, the amount of flexibility I think our receivers have to make sight adjustments is.... not much. What you see is what you get with us, and there isn't a whole hell of a lot to read into.
I don't know what you mean but trees being incorporated into pass designs? That's how designs are made lol. But they're obviously much more distinguishable when fewer receivers are on the field.
Literally replying when the notification from the other thread popped up. Working on that one as well.
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- Will do on the color.
- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time, can take as long to develop as a post. What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him. We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action. That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.
- Combo coverage. Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.
- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things. But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.
- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together. Route combinations and trees are no different.
You have done a lot of scouting, why don't you get in on the Board draft with a couple of teams.
You have done a lot of scouting, why don't you get in on the Board draft with a couple of teams.
Haven't scouted nearly as much as I'd like that would make me comfortable picking. And, sadly, quite busy despite the current epidemic.
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You have done a lot of scouting, why don't you get in on the Board draft with a couple of teams.
Haven't scouted nearly as much as I'd like that would make me comfortable picking. And, sadly, quite busy despite the current epidemic.
Haven't scouted nearly as much as I'd like that would make me comfortable picking. And, sadly, quite busy despite the current epidemic.
Well, a lot a people that know a lot less than you do are comfortable. It is, after all, just for shits and giggles. Not like you make your living off this. It would take you 5 minutes to figure who to pick for couple of teams.
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- Thanks.
- "field side" meaning "from the center of the field towards the outside (or boundary)?
- "MEG call"?
- OK... but how do I know which routes are trees and which are set? I mean once a WR (or TE) picks from a tree it looks like a set route?
Sorry, but trying to be sure my vocabulary is keeping up.
Also on trees... are they more likely to be incorporated into pass designs when there are fewer receivers on the field?
Thanks....
2 - route begins from the field (wide) side and breaks in. That's a LOT of ground to cover.
3 - MEG. Man Everywhere he Goes.
4 - Route combinations are all devised and executed as concepts to exploit anticipated defenses, you already knew that. Some teams, such as the Pats, simply utilize and master the concept itself regardless of personnel alignment. Which means any routes the receiver runs in that particular concept, their TE's and Backs have to know as well. That is where the notorious labels of the Pats offense being so formless and difficult to learn began. In time the mastery comes along with developing variables to how they call it or how their receivers run the play. I.E. vs varying route depths, play styles off DB's (bump, off, press) spot drop vs pattern zone or man coverage and making their adjustments vs certain coverages, leveraging the routes, etc etc. Which the QB has to also process and trust they're in sync. Many teams don't have such complexity and, short branch to go out on, I suspect the Browns are one of those teams. So when plays are called for Cleveland, the amount of flexibility I think our receivers have to make sight adjustments is.... not much. What you see is what you get with us, and there isn't a whole hell of a lot to read into.
I don't know what you mean but trees being incorporated into pass designs? That's how designs are made lol. But they're obviously much more distinguishable when fewer receivers are on the field.
Literally replying when the notification from the other thread popped up. Working on that one as well.
I don't know what you mean but trees being incorporated into pass designs?
Probably my misuse of nomenclature, but when I said route tree, I was thinking of the options a given receiver has at top of route based on his read of the defense.
Added thought was that in a given play design... not all options would be made available to all receivers.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I don't know what you mean but trees being incorporated into pass designs?
Probably my misuse of nomenclature, but when I said route tree, I was thinking of the options a given receiver has at top of route based on his read of the defense.
Added thought was that in a given play design... not all options would be made available to all receivers.
Probably my misuse of nomenclature, but when I said route tree, I was thinking of the options a given receiver has at top of route based on his read of the defense.
Added thought was that in a given play design... not all options would be made available to all receivers.
Ahhh, that makes more sense. Apologies for not picking up on it.
The amount of options at the top of the route really depends on a few things, but the most important of those - your QB. If Baker isn't seeing, processing and anticipating what his receivers are seeing, then it becomes much more difficult to tailor an offense to your opponent with only a weeks time. So as a coach you now have to compensate for that, limit the sight adjustments and try to manufacture offense other ways. Which very well may have been a big reason on a great deal of our miss-fires last season.
As for the amount of options a WR has to finish his route, that would also depend on the amount of receivers in the pattern the QB can handle. Goes back to what I just said - Baker. It's easier for him, or most any young QB, to read a field with fewer receivers who can vary their routes with (hopefully) the benefit of play action and space. Having a young QB drop back with 5 options, each of those options can adjust as sight demands, QB reads then rips... Well, that's the hardest things to do in ALL of sports.
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Have a laptop? Desktop? Tablet? Headset? Built in Mic? VoIP app? (Discord) Pencil and paper? Bored from quarantine ? Cool. Come join your boy online tomorrow about 11:30am, let's watch some film.
Just learning how to re-master PC and found that apparently I'm able to share my screen over said voip app?
So lets do this. Fresh eyes, both you and me, on Andrew Billings while I finish out my assessment on the signing. Game will be vs another run heavy team - the Ravens, from 10/13.
Get you a good breakfast, a full pot of coffee and your favorite chair. Charting plays takes some time. Let's learn something together.
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