Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls
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Welcome welcome and welcome...
Did not want to taint the jury pool earlier, but here is my post from when I first evaluated Jones..
Found myself rereading the entire thread that the above came from.
It's been an interesting journey for many of us this year... In my case I started of "not very impressed with what I've seen from Thomas so far." lol... well... at least I did look further.
Tell you what, about the pad height thing. Another impressive thing about Jones was the pad height and effort didn't change late in the game. 1 year at a football camp I went to a coach brought a game film of his team. He did this because he didn't have a big line on either side of the ball. His team got down early to a bigger team but they kept the score close. As it got into the 2nd half, he started to point out some guys that looked like studs in the 1st half now had their hands on their hips. Then he told us what else happens when players get tired. They're not only sucking gas but their pad heights get higher to the extent some guys are standing straight up. Then he showed his entire line had superior leverage (pad heights) on both sides of the ball throughout the 4th quarter. They ended up erasing a deficit and winning by 17 points. He said that's why we condition our athletes because when they invest what we ask of them - losing isn't an option. He said the film you just saw showed you heart beating talent where the better conditioned team was able to stay fundamentally sharp and continue doing all the little things that were escaping the other team via fatigue. When I saw all this with a big guy like Jones late in that Oklahoma, Washington and Cincy Games with the better pad height, hustling to the next level or with trapping and pulling - he's shines as the type of guy you want on your team.
Jones was the pad height and effort didn't change late in the game.
Yup... and when you look at Jones vs. the other top ones his gut is much less pronounced. Add that he is so frickin' economical in his movement...
Damn... he reminds me of Joe T. I think I've said that somewhere before, but not many times and not very loud. No kick-step, but...
I tell ya... I am so close to putting Jones atop my OT board it isn't silly. But I can never quite pull that trigger and I think the reason I can't is that doing so would be a bridge too far in the face of the overwhelming number of "expert" opinions that have him ranked 5th best.
Then add in my takes on Becton and Wirfs vs the "heads"... even given the similar views of all others here, it feels like I'm already bucking the trend for this draft class.
But closest I have gotten is to make Jones my 1b to my 1a, Thomas.
Not easy to admit I might be being "cowed", but it is what it is... at least I can still lean on "competition level" if I need to preserve my OL ego...
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I appreciate the fact that Callahan is here to help make the decision. His knowledge will go a long ways in selecting the right guy. IMOP, the only one who seems like he could be a massive bust is Becton...I just have a bad feeling about him. That being said, i know very little about evaluating offensive line talent. One guy whom I didn't see on the list is Ezra Cleveland. He's getting a lot of hype right now and the browns have had him in for a visit.
My predicition is the Browns are going to trade back to 12 with the Raiders and still get their guy. The Raiders want a #1 wr and if the board falls the way it is currently looking, the Raiders will want to jump the jets to get their guy. #12 and a 3rd rounder to jump a couple of spots. The browns would take that in a heartbeat.
Also, I wouldn't mind if the browns took a 1 year flyer on Peters. Basically, help the young tackle, wherever you draft him, get accustomed to this abnormal season that is going to happen. If Peters is playing at a high level, great. If he sucks after 5 games, you cut him or try to trade him for a late round pick to someone whom has injuries. This also helps to provide depth.
- My predicition is the Browns are going to trade back to 12 with the Raiders and still get their guy. The Raiders want a #1 wr and if the board falls the way it is currently looking, the Raiders will want to jump the jets to get their guy. #12 and a 3rd rounder to jump a couple of spots. The browns would take that in a heartbeat.
- Also, I wouldn't mind if the browns took a 1 year flyer on Peters. Basically, help the young tackle, wherever you draft him, get accustomed to this abnormal season that is going to happen. If Peters is playing at a high level, great. If he sucks after 5 games, you cut him or try to trade him for a late round pick to someone whom has injuries. This also helps to provide depth.
- Why do you feel LVR (may as well get use to typing that) would pay up to leapfrog NYJ? Jets look more OT needy than WR and wit the depth of the WR class quality will spill out of Round 1.
- There's still a gut named Trent Williams looming out there. Not crazy about his injury history, but it's hard to argue with seven(?) consecutive Pro Bowl selections and counting.
Also... going to take a look at Cleveland... stay tuned.
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If Thomas is there at 10 ,... You take him.. then go defense the rest of the draft... Thats the vibe I'm feeling anyway...
If Thomas is there at 10 ,... You take him.. then go defense the rest of the draft... Thats the vibe I'm feeling anyway...
I'd still keep an eye out for a RG, if one were to be somewhere near the top of our board when our pick came up, some round. And supposedly is a good WR draft.
But yeah, we need LB'er(s), S, DT, and we shouldn't be afraid to pick a CB. And edge rusher. (we haven't done anything yet with Vernon, have we?)
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Personally I would trade a 3rd or 4th and a player for Trent Williams. Then
I would trade up in the first round for Simmons if he happens to fall to
#7 or lower. Probably not going to happen but Simmons could be a
gamechanger.
Personally I would trade a 3rd or 4th and a player for Trent Williams. Then
I would trade up in the first round for Simmons if he happens to fall to
#7 or lower. Probably not going to happen but Simmons could be a
gamechanger.
...and I don't want any of those things to happen......just sayin'
I want a shiny brand new LT....and I'm not 100% sure Simmons can be an NLF LB'er worthy of a top ten pick. To me, there's a chance that he's a tweener.
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Personally I would trade a 3rd or 4th and a player for Trent Williams. Then
I would trade up in the first round for Simmons if he happens to fall to
#7 or lower. Probably not going to happen but Simmons could be a
gamechanger.
...and I don't want any of those things to happen......just sayin'
I want a shiny brand new LT....and I'm not 100% sure Simmons can be an NLF LB'er worthy of a top ten pick. To me, there's a chance that he's a tweener.
...and I don't want any of those things to happen......just sayin'
I want a shiny brand new LT....and I'm not 100% sure Simmons can be an NLF LB'er worthy of a top ten pick. To me, there's a chance that he's a tweener.
A Jack of All Trades, Master of None type player?
When was the last time Trent Williams played an entire season?
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Jets and Tampa an ideal opportunity to jump in front of us to take higher rated LTs for their investments at QB.
Yup... We've known about NYJ (#11) for a while and now TB (#14) is clearly in the OT market, but who else do we need to watch out for?
Assuming the Fins (#5, 18, 26) tab a QB at #5 OT has to be on their shopping list next... and they are the ones with the fire power to move, but where?
- Going to exclude CIN (#1 - Burrows), WSH (#2 - Young) and DET (#3 - Okudah) for now as they feel set... although DET might be a trade partner for a QB-hungry team.
- After the Hopkins trade AZ (#8) is likely going OT. So move ups need to land above them...
- CAR(#7) looks like a likely trade partner, but could hinge on whether Simmons is gone... rumor is they are eyeballing him to replace Kuechly.
- LAC (#6) willingness to deal seems to depend upon the QB(s) left on the board.
- and that brings us to NYG...
For me NYG is the wildcard... rumored to be enamored by Simmons, they also need OT help to protect a QB investment. It's higher than any team might want to move, but hard to deny that #4 gives a team the pick of the OT litter.
Whatever target MIA chooses they can bring the most trade-power to the table to get a deal done. NYJ and TB have shorter climbs, but once MIA lays two #1's on the table the others would likely have to dip into future picks to get competitive. And that's hard to do...
And that raises another wrinkle... a team giving up on their top OT and instead being willing to trade down themself, add draft capital and "settle for" their #2 OT.
And that could include us...
You can go crazy thinking about all this stuff... it's why GMs are currently all trying to feel each other out and will continue to do so until they have to make a move on Draft Day.
Yup... We've known about NYJ (#11) for a while and now TB (#14) is clearly in the OT market, but who else do we need to watch out for?
Assuming the Fins (#5, 18, 26) tab a QB at #5 OT has to be on their shopping list next... and they are the ones with the fire power to move, but where?
- Going to exclude CIN (#1 - Burrows), WSH (#2 - Young) and DET (#3 - Okudah) for now as they feel set... although DET might be a trade partner for a QB-hungry team.
- After the Hopkins trade AZ (#8) is likely going OT. So move ups need to land above them...
- CAR(#7) looks like a likely trade partner, but could hinge on whether Simmons is gone... rumor is they are eyeballing him to replace Kuechly.
- LAC (#6) willingness to deal seems to depend upon the QB(s) left on the board.
- and that brings us to NYG...
For me NYG is the wildcard... rumored to be enamored by Simmons, they also need OT help to protect a QB investment. It's higher than any team might want to move, but hard to deny that #4 gives a team the pick of the OT litter.
Whatever target MIA chooses they can bring the most trade-power to the table to get a deal done. NYJ and TB have shorter climbs, but once MIA lays two #1's on the table the others would likely have to dip into future picks to get competitive. And that's hard to do...
And that raises another wrinkle... a team giving up on their top OT and instead being willing to trade down themself, add draft capital and "settle for" their #2 OT.
And that could include us...
You can go crazy thinking about all this stuff... it's why GMs are currently all trying to feel each other out and will continue to do so until they have to make a move on Draft Day.
Unfortunately, we can go even crazier watching the Doctors and Nurses on the front lines of the fight against the Corona Virus in major cities remaining massively under-supplied. Scary times....
To get our minds off of that for a little bit, I see NYG at #4, Arizona at #8, Cleveland at #10, NYJ at #11 and Tampa at #14 with ideal chances to draft a LT. The NYG were very disappointed with the results of their FA Nate Solder last year to the extent they should be looking to add a LT early on in this draft.
2 major wild cards I see in this (and you already mentioned the 1st one but I'll add additional trade bait):
Miami could also package picks #18 and 26 to move up for a LT after they draft their QB at #5; especially knowing how active they've been in FA in filling holes. Not for nothing, they also have a young QB Josh Rosen that they should try to get some exchange value for if they are going to draft another QB with Fitzpatrick as the veteran backup/tutor.
The FO War of the Roses divorce with Trent Williams in Washington makes LT a bigger need than edge rusher IMO. This is especially considering they've drafted Montez Sweat OLB/Edge Rusher in round 1 and DE Jonathan Allen DE in round 1 in recent years while Ryan Kerrigan is still playing at a high level (13 sacks in 2018, he had 3.5 sacks in just 5 games interrupted by IR in 2019). It is an NFL Body by Daniel Snyder so prepare for anything here including shocking the world to go best LT over best pass rusher at #2 overall. Aside from that, there's gotta be 1 of 32 teams that will trade for Williams before/during the draft.
LT is an important enough position to challenge some of the mindsets that usually cling to the BPA; especially when we factor in this is the position that protects the blindside of the franchise QB investment. It's going to be interesting - that's for sure.
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Good stuff...
I'm not sure how many "generational" players are in this draft... Burrows, Young, Okudah, Simmons seem to be the extent of the consensus list. I can see it being only two, but however many there are, they should be the first off the board. In no case do I see an OT on this list. The OT class is a good one with some great names at the top, but not seeing generational talent at the position this go 'round.
I did gloss over WSH based upon their alleged infatuation with Young. PFF did an analysis that showed that any fairly compensated trade down would net WSH more value. With no 2nd round pick, they could use a couple more high picks. If they stay, be it by choice or not, I don't see them taking an OT.... I think it's Young simply based upon impact potential.... although if I were the WSH GM, if he was medically cleared, then I'd go with Tua.
As for who would trade up to #2... To my mind the most likely candidates would be a QB-needy team like LAC or MIA, but the remaining top QBs, Tua and Herbert, don't seem to me to be worth a trade up. In Herbert's case on face value and in Tua's due to the added premium required to trade up.
Solder did disappoint... gee, who could have seen that coming
... but NYG is contractually stuck with him (deadmoney) for at least one more year, so you work with him. While the OT class of 2020 doesn't look as flush, it has some very good names like Leatherwood (BAMA) and Munford (tOSU) at the top.
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If Thomas is there at 10 ,... You take him.. then go defense the rest of the draft... Thats the vibe I'm feeling anyway...
I'd still keep an eye out for a RG, if one were to be somewhere near the top of our board when our pick came up, some round. And supposedly is a good WR draft.
But yeah, we need LB'er(s), S, DT, and we shouldn't be afraid to pick a CB. And edge rusher. (we haven't done anything yet with Vernon, have we?)
I'd still keep an eye out for a RG, if one were to be somewhere near the top of our board when our pick came up, some round. And supposedly is a good WR draft.
But yeah, we need LB'er(s), S, DT, and we shouldn't be afraid to pick a CB. And edge rusher. (we haven't done anything yet with Vernon, have we?)
Nope , Vernon is still on the Roster...
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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
Mock drafts are great to get the creative juices flowing. I would say that, if the board fell the way it did for the Browns, they are running to the podium with Okudah on the paper. Yes, they have greedy and denzel, but that gives the team all kinds of flexibility with it's defense and disguises. They could send all kinds of different looks knowing they have the WR's on lockdown 1-3.
Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert. You have a serviceable vet plus Rosen (who you gave up a 2nd rounder) still in the fold. Put some really good players around your next qb. Even if you don't get the top 3 pick next year, MIA still has all kinds of draft ammo to move up if they really want too. (Yes, I know, every year is different and you never know about the qbs and who is going to flame out, etc...). My point is both teams are in a great position to add good talent without having the risk of failure of a qb.
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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Tiam's Jeremy Chinn? WHAT ? lol lol
Actually, Kyle Duggar got picked three picks later in the third round. But he was rated a bit higher. I wasn't far off the mark there.
Kinlaw would be a great, great pick. But we signed a DL. You have to love Kinlaw though. I don't see it - unless you relegate Ogunjobi (eventually?) to being in rotation and not a starter. ?
BPA would be Kinlaw. But without signing a FA LT... I don't know how good Ezra Cleveland would be at LT vs the speed rushers he'd face in the NFL.
My goofy opinion - I will be shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, if Chinn and Duggar fall out of the second round.
Interesting mock though.
I'm thinking, if the Browns DID draft Kinlaw (who is surely to be a star in the NFL)...
they could draft Chinn/Duggar in the second, and then pick the OT (division III though) in the third round:
"Ben Bartch, OT, St. John's
The only Division III player at both the Senior Bowl and the combine, Bartch is bound to get drafted and, unlike many lower-level offensive linemen on the NFL radar, he likely won't have to move to guard to play in the pros.
At nearly 6-foot-6 and 309 pounds with arms close to 33 inches, he has adequate left tackle length by NFL standards. His film shows a nice blend of technique, nastiness, and anchor in pass protection, all of which probably got the attention of GMs and scouts.
Also, while many small-school blockers are devastating in the run game but have a ways to develop in pass protection, Bartch already thrives in the latter area and understands three of the most vital facets of blocking on a pass play -- he sinks his hips to win the leverage battle, he makes initial contact with the defender and routinely resets his hands, which helps him stay balanced. The third round is not out of the question for the Division III stud."
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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
Mock drafts are great to get the creative juices flowing. I would say that, if the board fell the way it did for the Browns, they are running to the podium with Okudah on the paper. Yes, they have greedy and denzel, but that gives the team all kinds of flexibility with it's defense and disguises. They could send all kinds of different looks knowing they have the WR's on lockdown 1-3.
Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert. You have a serviceable vet plus Rosen (who you gave up a 2nd rounder) still in the fold. Put some really good players around your next qb. Even if you don't get the top 3 pick next year, MIA still has all kinds of draft ammo to move up if they really want too. (Yes, I know, every year is different and you never know about the qbs and who is going to flame out, etc...). My point is both teams are in a great position to add good talent without having the risk of failure of a qb.
Mock drafts are great to get the creative juices flowing. I would say that, if the board fell the way it did for the Browns, they are running to the podium with Okudah on the paper. Yes, they have greedy and denzel, but that gives the team all kinds of flexibility with it's defense and disguises. They could send all kinds of different looks knowing they have the WR's on lockdown 1-3.
Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert. You have a serviceable vet plus Rosen (who you gave up a 2nd rounder) still in the fold. Put some really good players around your next qb. Even if you don't get the top 3 pick next year, MIA still has all kinds of draft ammo to move up if they really want too. (Yes, I know, every year is different and you never know about the qbs and who is going to flame out, etc...). My point is both teams are in a great position to add good talent without having the risk of failure of a qb.
Well, QBs always go higher than probably they should. So, unless these teams really show some restraint, I would expect them all to still go high. The one thing that could restrain them of course is the corona virus restrictions. Especially with a QB, where the risk/reward is high anyway, maybe GMs will be reluctant to take them as high as usual....given that risk. And maybe they will, as you say, go more with a known commodity. (though Cam's injury situation makes him less of a know commodity)
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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
Mock drafts are great to get the creative juices flowing. I would say that, if the board fell the way it did for the Browns, they are running to the podium with Okudah on the paper. Yes, they have greedy and denzel, but that gives the team all kinds of flexibility with it's defense and disguises. They could send all kinds of different looks knowing they have the WR's on lockdown 1-3.
Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert. You have a serviceable vet plus Rosen (who you gave up a 2nd rounder) still in the fold. Put some really good players around your next qb. Even if you don't get the top 3 pick next year, MIA still has all kinds of draft ammo to move up if they really want too. (Yes, I know, every year is different and you never know about the qbs and who is going to flame out, etc...). My point is both teams are in a great position to add good talent without having the risk of failure of a qb.
Just a random thought, but I still just don't think these qb's are going to go as high as everyone else. Tua has major injury questions which can not be evaluated before the draft because of the current state of the world and Herbert was incredibly disappointing this past season. Herbert has all the tools but was the most inconsistent player perhaps in the country considering the hype. If I'm the chargers, I don't draft a qb and sign Cam Newton, draft either a tackle or if okudah is on the board based on a scenario like this, i take him and have the best secondary in the league. If I'm Miami, and you obviously tried to tank last year, why not tank again for next year where Fields and Lawarence will be in the draft? Both ranked higher than Tua or Herbert.
Random is what we thrive on here.
Going to disagree on Tua... I think before everything was locked down, teams came away with enough info for their Medicals Staffs to either DQ the kid or not. And if he's not DQ'd, then that's the end of that discussion... you assess him on his play... and his tape is very competitive with Burrow's.
A valid consideration for any team picking him is that Tua is not likely to see the field in 2020. However, if there is no 2020 season for anyone, then why not take him?
Herbert? I see fool's gold when I see him.
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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
I could definitely see this shaking out. As you know, I was already worried the NYG would go LT at #4. You brought up a very good point about Solder's dead money. But, if he can't stay healthy enough to be or play like a starter - lyrics remind us "it's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along." They have a 1st round QB investment they have to protect so I can see them eating that Solder contract. The good thing about drafting a guy vrs paying FA prices - the rookie contract is usually cap friendlier. That is, unless you're the NYG that could be railroading themselves into pay both of these contracts. This is a good lesson to all those thinking we need to pay big FA money for the worn and torn. Washington is asking way too much for a Trent Williams trade for a player who is close to the age Joe Thomas was when NFL wear and tear = retirement. FA Jason Peters is about 6 years older than that.
I've also recently mentioned in various threads I could see TB trading up since my drive into work every day has a lot of radio discussion hopes of them trading up to protect the blind side of Brady. One caller said "they didn't protect the blindside of Jameis." And the host asked "Which blind side are you talking about? Jameis has a lot of them." Seeing how much they wanted Brady - the trade up in the mock draft makes a lot of sense especially for a team that gave up a lot of sacks and QB pressures in 2019.
If it gets to this we can either trade back or draft Josh Jones instead of Kinlaw. I've read 2 different draft pubs stating Kinlaw has a tendency to play with a high pad height; and has trouble seeing the ball. 2 things that wouldn't match up well vrs OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it. Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway. We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT. Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher. But they also list him as the DT that "Could Disappoint" stating "Among the most obvious boom-or-bust prospects of the 2020 Draft. Kinlaw alternately wows with his explosiveness or finds himself on his back, relying on his tools and losing technique too often."
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Not sure how I feel about Wirfs, who can struggle on the edge of his current side, flipping to the opposite at the NFL level and finding success. So justifying him being that high is.... Odd, to me?
Edit: a lot of mocks showing Andrew Thomas to AZ. I'm really not sure how I feel about personnel order at that point. Right now I'm a AT or bust mindset. And with my feelings on IDL, I feel that can be addressed at value a little while later.
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It feels like if the Browns take ANY position besides LT, it will be a shock to most of us.
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I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.
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I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.
I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.
I cant see the Cardinals going for another WR so early. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd, but they already have Hopkins, Fitzgerald, Kirk, Isabella, and Hakeem Butler.
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