Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls

Flugel

@tour2ma said:

lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.

On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:

Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39

Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45

Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137

Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97

Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100

Here are the Round 1 picks...

CIN - Burrow

WSH - Young

MIA - Tua

NYG - Wills... that's 1

DET - Simmons

LAC - Herbert

TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...

AZ - Thomas... that's 3

JAX - Becton... that's 4

CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players

NYJ - Jeudy

LVR - Okudah

JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...

So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...

Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.

Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/

I could definitely see this shaking out. As you know, I was already worried the NYG would go LT at #4. You brought up a very good point about Solder's dead money. But, if he can't stay healthy enough to be or play like a starter - lyrics remind us "it's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along." They have a 1st round QB investment they have to protect so I can see them eating that Solder contract. The good thing about drafting a guy vrs paying FA prices - the rookie contract is usually cap friendlier. That is, unless you're the NYG that could be railroading themselves into pay both of these contracts. This is a good lesson to all those thinking we need to pay big FA money for the worn and torn. Washington is asking way too much for a Trent Williams trade for a player who is close to the age Joe Thomas was when NFL wear and tear = retirement. FA Jason Peters is about 6 years older than that.

I've also recently mentioned in various threads I could see TB trading up since my drive into work every day has a lot of radio discussion hopes of them trading up to protect the blind side of Brady. One caller said "they didn't protect the blindside of Jameis." And the host asked "Which blind side are you talking about? Jameis has a lot of them." Seeing how much they wanted Brady - the trade up in the mock draft makes a lot of sense especially for a team that gave up a lot of sacks and QB pressures in 2019.

If it gets to this we can either trade back or draft Josh Jones instead of Kinlaw. I've read 2 different draft pubs stating Kinlaw has a tendency to play with a high pad height; and has trouble seeing the ball. 2 things that wouldn't match up well vrs OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it. Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway. We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT. Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher. But they also list him as the DT that "Could Disappoint" stating "Among the most obvious boom-or-bust prospects of the 2020 Draft. Kinlaw alternately wows with his explosiveness or finds himself on his back, relying on his tools and losing technique too often."

tiamat63

Not sure how I feel about Wirfs, who can struggle on the edge of his current side, flipping to the opposite at the NFL level and finding success. So justifying him being that high is.... Odd, to me?

Edit: a lot of mocks showing Andrew Thomas to AZ. I'm really not sure how I feel about personnel order at that point. Right now I'm a AT or bust mindset. And with my feelings on IDL, I feel that can be addressed at value a little while later.

Dutch Oven

It feels like if the Browns take ANY position besides LT, it will be a shock to most of us.

TexasAg1969

I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.

Louisville Slugger

@texasag1969 said:

I can see the Bucs trading up ahead of us for a LT. But I have also read that Kyler is pushing hard to get his old WR from OKla. back in the huddle with him, CeeDee Lamb. Not the worst pick since they have such a good prior connection. Might look somewhat like KC's pass happy team with their throw on the run QB. I think Kyler has confidence he can shake loose from any edge rushers beating his LT and either run or find a receiver just like Mahomes does.

I cant see the Cardinals going for another WR so early. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd, but they already have Hopkins, Fitzgerald, Kirk, Isabella, and Hakeem Butler.

Orion

There are a lot of suggestions regarding teams trading up in front of us in order to draft their new left tackle.

It shows how important that fat-ass on the left side of the line is.

TexasAg1969

@louisville-slugger said:

I cant see the Cardinals going for another WR so early. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd, but they already have Hopkins, Fitzgerald, Kirk, Isabella, and Hakeem Butler.

That might have been Kyler talking before they acquired Hopkins come to think of it. What a weapon they gave him there!!

The Gipper

@dutch-oven said:

It feels like if the Browns take ANY position besides LT, it will be a shock to most of us.

Yea, because their depth chart does not show a single one on the roster. Not one.

jrb12711

@dutch-oven said:

It feels like if the Browns take ANY position besides LT, it will be a shock to most of us.

If for some crazy reason Simmons is still there at #10, that's just as big a need IMO. . Highly doubt that'll be an option though, and thus makes LT the very obvious choice.

@tiamat63 said:

Not sure how I feel about Wirfs, who can struggle on the edge of his current side, flipping to the opposite at the NFL level and finding success. So justifying him being that high is.... Odd, to me?

Edit: a lot of mocks showing Andrew Thomas to AZ. I'm really not sure how I feel about personnel order at that point. Right now I'm a AT or bust mindset. And with my feelings on IDL, I feel that can be addressed at value a little while later.

Yeah, sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture in terms of prospects. There's a reason defensive linemen have been pouring out of the flood gates from Ohio State-they all want to be coached by Larry Johnson. Whatever that dude does, he does it damn well.

Same thing with Sam Pittman as the (former) OL coach at Georgia. Whenever that dude gets his hand on a NFL prospect on the O-Line, they end up solid to great players. No reason to overthink on that one, if Thomas is there take him. Only way it gets complicated is if Simmons is there too.

Bob806

@orion said:

There are a lot of suggestions regarding teams trading up in front of us in order to draft their new left tackle.

It shows how important that fat-ass on the left side of the line is.

Goohlie-ish lol

Tour2ma

@flugel said:

OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it. Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway. We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT. Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher.

Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...

I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.

Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...

I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.

Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.

I picked Robert Hunt IOL from Louisiana with the Browns comp pick in round 3 #97 overall. What do you think about that pick of the Rajun Cajun?

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

I picked Robert Hunt IOL from Louisiana with the Browns comp pick in round 3 #97 overall. What do you think about that pick of the Rajun Cajun?

Haven't watched any tape, but from what I've read he's a good player, but a bad scheme fit for us. He's made for the power game.

calfoxwc

@jrb12711 said:

If for some crazy reason Simmons is still there at #10, that's just as big a need IMO. . Highly doubt that'll be an option though, and thus makes LT the very obvious choice.

Yeah, sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture in terms of prospects. There's a reason defensive linemen have been pouring out of the flood gates from Ohio State-they all want to be coached by Larry Johnson. Whatever that dude does, he does it damn well.

Same thing with Sam Pittman as the (former) OL coach at Georgia. Whenever that dude gets his hand on a NFL prospect on the O-Line, they end up solid to great players. No reason to overthink on that one, if Thomas is there take him. Only way it gets complicated is if Simmons is there too.

I think that the Browns would draft Thomas if he's there. I'm sure he won't be. I love the idea of the Browns drafting Simmons. I said elsewhere, Simmons at times, reminds me of watching Jack Lambert back in college. But assuming that Thomas is not going to be there, it seems that Josh Jones is still a great pick there.

Biggest reason is, per my stupid mock draft, is that Kyle Dugger is there. I called Dugger a "poor man's Simmons" somewhere. Add to that, Tiam's impressive Jeremy Chinn - will both be there in the second round.

So, I think Thomas is gone, and so is Simmons.

Therefore -

Round one preference:

Thomas - primary, Jones - secondary

As to the question if Thomas is gone and Simmons fell to the Browns? lol

I'd draft Simmons. He is that much a BPA.

Then, I'd see if the excellent OT tackle we signed as a FA will flip to LT, and I'd draft an OT for the right side.

I think Josh Jones goes in the top twenty at worst, 10-15 at best. With no chance? at Thomas, Jones was my 1st round pick.

whatever, It's freaking complicated. LOL

If the Browns DID get Simmons in the first round?

Ezra Cleveland, as noted elsewhere, going in the last pick of the first in a few mocks.....

I really, really like this kid - he probably won't start his first year, but... - the only Division III kid at the Senior Bowl I think it was. Could be a serious gem - third round -

https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch

There was only one NCAA Division III football player who competed in the Reese’s Senior Bowl and that was offensive tackle Ben Bartch. Bartch attended Saint John’s University in Collegeville, Minnesota where he played tight end for his first two years of college before moving to offensive tackle.

In his sophomore year, he caught four passes for 43 yards and one touchdown. After switching over to offensive tackle, Bartch started every game for the Johnnies. He was named Second Team All-MIAC as a junior. In his senior year, Bartch was named First Team All-MIAC as well as Second Team AP All-American.

Heading into the Senior Bowl, Bartch was an expected day three pick. The 6’6”, 308 pound lineman boosted himself to a top 100 prospect following his week in Mobile, Alabama. He was consistent all week and showed he could compete with the top draft prospects. Bartch will also be participating in the NFL Combine.

Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020

For Tampa Bay, one of the biggest offseason needs is offensive tackle. In many mock drafts, the Bucs are linked to OT Mekhi Bacon from Louisville. Bartch is projected to be selected midway through the 3rd round. If the Bucs decided to wait and select Bartch in the 3rd round, they could get more value that is needed at a different position.

TexasAg1969

@calfoxwc said:

In many mock drafts, the Bucs are linked to OT Mekhi Bacton from Louisville. Bartch is projected to be selected midway through the 3rd round. If the Bucs decided to wait and select Bartch in the 3rd round, they could get more value that is needed at a different position.

I took Becton as a RT for the Bucs in the BB draft because they already have their LT and I think he makes a superior RT. Got to get quality in front of ole man Brady if you wanting him to play all season.

Maybe after that a punter. ?

calfoxwc

@texasag1969 said:

I took Becton as a RT for the Bucs in the BB draft because they already have their LT and I think he makes a superior RT. Got to get quality in front of ole man Brady if you wanting him to play all season.

Maybe after that a punter. ?

Wherever Becton goes - it will be intriguing to watch how he does in his career.

Tour2ma

Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...

So may I assume you are looking for him as a later round RT?

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Haven't watched any tape, but from what I've read he's a good player, but a bad scheme fit for us. He's made for the power game.

Well, with our 2 RBs, and this guy being an interior OL, wouldn't it be good for us to have some kind of a "power game"? I mean, it seems that for a long time the Browns have been having issues getting a push up front in like goal line situations and 3rd and short situations. Now that we have a fullback wouldn't we be wanting to play a bit of "Powerball" at time?

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...

He was gone in our draft by the time it came around for me to try to grab him.

But then I was looking for guard, not a tackle.

Would you rather have him than the guys they have listed at the top: Wirfs/Thomas/Becton//Wills etc?