The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.
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His pops was one of my favorite Buckeyes. One of the best open field tacklers. Maybe the tackling runs in the bloodlines.
That is what I figure.
That is what I figure.
The Penn State game I became a believer. We could do far worse and it’s not like this is great safety class
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Oy vei...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Not sure how I feel about a 5'9" safety trying to cover TEs or help in the running game...
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End up? He's already the #1 ILB in this draft class. Not busting your balls here because I appreciate the passion and work you put into this for us. Anyway, aside from what I've seen online - the only 2 draft guides I bought rate him as the #1 ILB. In his Conference Championship game vrs Baylor - he had 8 solo tackles 2 assists, 1 sack and 1 PD. And the year before as a soph, in the CFP Semifinal vrs Alabama - he had 7 solo tackles, 8 assists and .5 sacks. His soph year was his best year vrs the run with 71 solo tackles, 84 assists and 4.5 sacks; BUT only 2 PD (which improved to 4 passes defensed as a junior in 2019). Looks like a bigger version of Mike Johnson.
So, what can he improve on? In his 42 starts in 3 years, he has 0 INTs and only 6 passes defensed. So, my best guess here is his biggest challenge will be his pre-snap awareness/reads that promote the quick recognition to get him to the inside hook zones on time to be efficient. A lot of that comes with experience as Joe Schobert reminded us. And now that he's really good at defending the pass, Jax gets the player we developed. Looking at what we did in FA for the 3 openings in our LB Corps, we added the ILB/MLB BJ Goodson (1 year contract only though) which still leaves us looking for 2 starters at OLB. It'll be interesting to see what we do at LBer in this draft.
- I'm looking at Murray as a WILL backer. I don't want him banging around on the interior too much. So his direct competition for that lofty #1 status is against Isiash Simmons... as he is beginning to be touted as an off ball LB (primarily) Goodson can handle that MIKE role just fine. And yes, you will hear Simmons being talked about in similar roles as Murray the get closer we get to the draft. For the "purity" of the position, my pick is Kenneth.
Ain't that the truth?! Neither does a LT that made 10 consecutive Pro Bowls at the position in terms of expertise about job requirements.
1 amendment I'll add to your point is "if you see enough tape on a guy." I ran around here like a rooster on steroids after I watched videos of Mack Wilson's greatest moments. What I'm getting at here during this time of year is sometimes we don't dig deep enough on the even the best of prospects. I'm going to give you an example in a second on a guy I think should still be the #1 rated LT prospect (Andrew Thomas). Having said that, the latter part of the video below finds a flaw with a pass pro fundamental/hand placement the narrator thinks is from a bad teaching (also illustrated via example with the RT confirming why he thinks it's from the teaching). And who's that LG #66 modeling the FLABS (Flugel's Abs)? Thatta boy!!!
I'm not sure what the bolded means? JT is weeks late to my assessment of Wirfs and he arrived at the same conclusion I did. You're welcome to scan back on this thread and check.
And I've seen what you're referring to with Andrew Thomas (the hand placement). He's my #1 OT and what I like about his hands, while not always so much the placement, is the reach and impact on his strike. I don't think his feet are JT type elite, and I don't think they ever will be. But his feet, his hips and such will be adequate enough to fill the position nicely. It's his strike that he compensates with to slow down edge rushers. He times it well without losing his base and staying in sync. Yes, there are times he leans at it a little or doesn't land as clean as a good coach would ask, but the raw tools are there and displayed... just not on an every down basis.
I'm not sure what the bolded means? JT is weeks late to my assessment of Wirfs and he arrived at the same conclusion I did. You're welcome to scan back on this thread and check.
And I've seen what you're referring to with Andrew Thomas (the hand placement). He's my #1 OT and what I like about his hands, while not always so much the placement, is the reach and impact on his strike. I don't think his feet are JT type elite, and I don't think they ever will be. But his feet, his hips and such will be adequate enough to fill the position nicely. It's his strike that he compensates with to slow down edge rushers. He times it well without losing his base and staying in sync. Yes, there are times he leans at it a little or doesn't land as clean as a good coach would ask, but the raw tools are there and displayed... just not on an every down basis.
At ease. You're one of the last guys that needs to prove yourself to me. Ain't that the truth - is an expression that means we agree. Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed. Today, that couldn't be further from the truth. For example, good stuff about where you are coming from on Murray. As for Simmons, I don't know where he will end up playing. He plays defense with his eyes and instincts to have me seeing an ideal career ahead. In just 3 years - he had 19 pass break-ups and 4 INTs. In 2019, he had 102 tackles (16 for a loss) and 8 sacks to go with what he did in pass/zone coverage. In today's game, the levers of a 6'4" OLBer with instincts, speed, and vision aren't a bad thing to offer a defense; especially one in need of 2 brand new starters at OLBer. He can get to the QB or get his hands on the ball in coverage.
And Andrew Thomas is also my #1 LT as depicted in my LT Faves thread. IMO he does everything he's been taught extremely well including his biggest flaw in pass pro that his 1st NFL OL Coach will have to de-program. Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands. He further explained the reason he thought that was being taught is he showed the RT doing the exact same thing on another pass play. Even our prospect faves will have things to work on/correct/de-program at the next level. I'm getting closer to finalizing LT faves. My movin on ups are Wills and Jones.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I'm not sure what the bolded means? JT is weeks late to my assessment of Wirfs and he arrived at the same conclusion I did. You're welcome to scan back on this thread and check.
And I've seen what you're referring to with Andrew Thomas (the hand placement). He's my #1 OT and what I like about his hands, while not always so much the placement, is the reach and impact on his strike. I don't think his feet are JT type elite, and I don't think they ever will be. But his feet, his hips and such will be adequate enough to fill the position nicely. It's his strike that he compensates with to slow down edge rushers. He times it well without losing his base and staying in sync. Yes, there are times he leans at it a little or doesn't land as clean as a good coach would ask, but the raw tools are there and displayed... just not on an every down basis.
At ease. You're one of the last guys that needs to prove yourself to me. Ain't that the truth - is an expression that means we agree. Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed. Today, that couldn't be further from the truth. For example, good stuff about where you are coming from on Murray. As for Simmons, I don't know where he will end up playing. He plays defense with his eyes and instincts to have me seeing an ideal career ahead. In just 3 years - he had 19 pass break-ups and 4 INTs. In 2019, he had 102 tackles (16 for a loss) and 8 sacks to go with what he did in pass/zone coverage. In today's game, the levers of a 6'4" OLBer with instincts, speed, and vision aren't a bad thing to offer a defense; especially one in need of 2 brand new starters at OLBer. He can get to the QB or get his hands on the ball in coverage.
And Andrew Thomas is also my #1 LT as depicted in my LT Faves thread. IMO he does everything he's been taught extremely well including his biggest flaw in pass pro that his 1st NFL OL Coach will have to de-program. Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands. He further explained the reason he thought that was being taught is he showed the RT doing the exact same thing on another pass play. Even our prospect faves will have things to work on/correct/de-program at the next level. I'm getting closer to finalizing LT faves. My movin on ups are Wills and Jones.
At ease. You're one of the last guys that needs to prove yourself to me. Ain't that the truth - is an expression that means we agree. Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed. Today, that couldn't be further from the truth. For example, good stuff about where you are coming from on Murray. As for Simmons, I don't know where he will end up playing; but he plays defense with his eyes and instincts to have me seeing an ideal career ahead. In just 3 years - he had 19 pass break-ups and 4 INTs. In 2019, he had 102 tackles (16 for a loss) and 8 sacks to go with what he did in pass/zone coverage. I'm surprised this guy has a lot of critics that think he'll just wake up a horrible football player in 2020.
And Andrew Thomas is also my #1 LT as depicted in my LT Faves thread. IMO he does everything he's been taught extremely well including his biggest flaw in pass pro that his 1st NFL OL Coach will have to de-program. Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands. He further explained the reason he thought that was being taught is he showed the RT doing the exact same thing on another pass play. Even our prospect faves will have things to work on/correct/de-program at the next level. I'm getting closer to finalizing LT faves. My movin on ups are Wills and Jones.
So what you're saying is - we're same same.
Outside, different faces. Inside, same same.
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At ease. You're one of the last guys that needs to prove yourself to me. Ain't that the truth - is an expression that means we agree. Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed. Today, that couldn't be further from the truth. For example, good stuff about where you are coming from on Murray. As for Simmons, I don't know where he will end up playing; but he plays defense with his eyes and instincts to have me seeing an ideal career ahead. In just 3 years - he had 19 pass break-ups and 4 INTs. In 2019, he had 102 tackles (16 for a loss) and 8 sacks to go with what he did in pass/zone coverage. I'm surprised this guy has a lot of critics that think he'll just wake up a horrible football player in 2020.
And Andrew Thomas is also my #1 LT as depicted in my LT Faves thread. IMO he does everything he's been taught extremely well including his biggest flaw in pass pro that his 1st NFL OL Coach will have to de-program. Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands. He further explained the reason he thought that was being taught is he showed the RT doing the exact same thing on another pass play. Even our prospect faves will have things to work on/correct/de-program at the next level. I'm getting closer to finalizing LT faves. My movin on ups are Wills and Jones.
So what you're saying is - we're same same.
Outside, different faces. Inside, same same.
So what you're saying is - we're same same.
Outside, different faces. Inside, same same.
Thatta boy.
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Thatta boy.
I will apologize to you guys in advance if I'm a bigger asshole than usual. Things are wonky right now, and everybody is just trying to get by.
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I will apologize to you guys in advance if I'm a bigger asshole than usual. Things are wonky right now, and everybody is just trying to get by.
You're fine - don't worry about it! I agree these are scary times so this is a nice place for us to escape some of that.
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Not sure how I feel about a 5'9" safety trying to cover TEs or help in the running game...
Not sure how I feel about a 5'9" safety trying to cover TEs or help in the running game...
I feel good about it, having seen him play. Skill level very high....even if his altitude is not.
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Not sure how I feel about a 5'9" safety trying to cover TEs or help in the running game...
Not sure how I feel about a 5'9" safety trying to cover TEs or help in the running game...
Being hit by a dude that's 5'9 210 is like being hit by a bowling ball. Believe me, it sucks.
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I'm not sure what the bolded means? JT is weeks late to my assessment of Wirfs and he arrived at the same conclusion I did. You're welcome to scan back on this thread and check.
And I've seen what you're referring to with Andrew Thomas (the hand placement). He's my #1 OT and what I like about his hands, while not always so much the placement, is the reach and impact on his strike. I don't think his feet are JT type elite, and I don't think they ever will be. But his feet, his hips and such will be adequate enough to fill the position nicely. It's his strike that he compensates with to slow down edge rushers. He times it well without losing his base and staying in sync. Yes, there are times he leans at it a little or doesn't land as clean as a good coach would ask, but the raw tools are there and displayed... just not on an every down basis.
At ease. You're one of the last guys that needs to prove yourself to me. Ain't that the truth - is an expression that means we agree. Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed. Today, that couldn't be further from the truth. For example, good stuff about where you are coming from on Murray. As for Simmons, I don't know where he will end up playing. He plays defense with his eyes and instincts to have me seeing an ideal career ahead. In just 3 years - he had 19 pass break-ups and 4 INTs. In 2019, he had 102 tackles (16 for a loss) and 8 sacks to go with what he did in pass/zone coverage. In today's game, the levers of a 6'4" OLBer with instincts, speed, and vision aren't a bad thing to offer a defense; especially one in need of 2 brand new starters at OLBer. He can get to the QB or get his hands on the ball in coverage.
And Andrew Thomas is also my #1 LT as depicted in my LT Faves thread. IMO he does everything he's been taught extremely well including his biggest flaw in pass pro that his 1st NFL OL Coach will have to de-program. Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands. He further explained the reason he thought that was being taught is he showed the RT doing the exact same thing on another pass play. Even our prospect faves will have things to work on/correct/de-program at the next level. I'm getting closer to finalizing LT faves. My movin on ups are Wills and Jones.
Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed.
Something that could never be said of us...
I will apologize to you guys in advance if I'm a bigger asshole than usual.
A wise man once told me never apologize for the impossible.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not sure how I feel about a 5'9" safety trying to cover TEs or help in the running game...
Being hit by a dude that's 5'9 210 is like being hit by a bowling ball. Believe me, it sucks.
Being hit by a dude that's 5'9 210 is like being hit by a bowling ball. Believe me, it sucks.
Physics will tell you it's no different than being hit by a 6'1, 210 guy.
My getting hung up on height is not a given. I'm good so long as the prospect's vertical and/or arm length compensate, but a 36" vert and 30-1/8" arm-length don't.
But there's another problem...
By most accounts Winfield is a round 2 kid and I don't see him coming out of the cluster of players I have at Pick 41. First there are the R1 "refugees", those that get pushed out of the round. Then there are the top R2 grades... a group that now includes Chin.
Then there's the matter of the relative value of Davis in the 3rd.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm not sure what the bolded means? JT is weeks late to my assessment of Wirfs and he arrived at the same conclusion I did. You're welcome to scan back on this thread and check.
And I've seen what you're referring to with Andrew Thomas (the hand placement). He's my #1 OT and what I like about his hands, while not always so much the placement, is the reach and impact on his strike. I don't think his feet are JT type elite, and I don't think they ever will be. But his feet, his hips and such will be adequate enough to fill the position nicely. It's his strike that he compensates with to slow down edge rushers. He times it well without losing his base and staying in sync. Yes, there are times he leans at it a little or doesn't land as clean as a good coach would ask, but the raw tools are there and displayed... just not on an every down basis.
At ease. You're one of the last guys that needs to prove yourself to me. Ain't that the truth - is an expression that means we agree. Once upon a time, you and I didn't have good discussions when we disagreed. Today, that couldn't be further from the truth. For example, good stuff about where you are coming from on Murray. As for Simmons, I don't know where he will end up playing. He plays defense with his eyes and instincts to have me seeing an ideal career ahead. In just 3 years - he had 19 pass break-ups and 4 INTs. In 2019, he had 102 tackles (16 for a loss) and 8 sacks to go with what he did in pass/zone coverage. In today's game, the levers of a 6'4" OLBer with instincts, speed, and vision aren't a bad thing to offer a defense; especially one in need of 2 brand new starters at OLBer. He can get to the QB or get his hands on the ball in coverage.
And Andrew Thomas is also my #1 LT as depicted in my LT Faves thread. IMO he does everything he's been taught extremely well including his biggest flaw in pass pro that his 1st NFL OL Coach will have to de-program. Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands. He further explained the reason he thought that was being taught is he showed the RT doing the exact same thing on another pass play. Even our prospect faves will have things to work on/correct/de-program at the next level. I'm getting closer to finalizing LT faves. My movin on ups are Wills and Jones.
Voch Lombardi isolated this on the video I showed beginning with Thomas sticking his chest out before striking with his hands.
That's evidence of drawing the arms back before firing them at the target. Try it at your keyboard with hands low and arms close to your sides. I know I can't draw the arms back without my chest moving forward.
Of course the problem with drawing back is time.. same as it is for a QB with an elongated "wind up". The longer it takes to deliver the blow, the longer the opponent has to see it coming. This would be akin to "telegraphing a punch" in boxing.
I doubt it was coached in... more likely that the strength of the blow was over-emphasized and either the UGA OL Coach did not see how the added power was being generated or was happy with the trade-off.
I'd be lying if I said I saw it in the tape, but agree it's not a concern. Nothing time and repetition through a full camp can't fix... or some time inside the ropes...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Being hit by a dude that's 5'9 210 is like being hit by a bowling ball. Believe me, it sucks.
Physics will tell you it's no different than being hit by a 6'1, 210 guy.
My getting hung up on height is not a given. I'm good so long as the prospect's vertical and/or arm length compensate, but a 36" vert and 30-1/8" arm-length don't.
But there's another problem...
By most accounts Winfield is a round 2 kid and I don't see him coming out of the cluster of players I have at Pick 41. First there are the R1 "refugees", those that get pushed out of the round. Then there are the top R2 grades... a group that now includes Chin.
Then there's the matter of the relative value of Davis in the 3rd.
Physics will tell you it's no different than being hit by a 6'1, 210 guy.
My getting hung up on height is not a given. I'm good so long as the prospect's vertical and/or arm length compensate, but a 36" vert and 30-1/8" arm-length don't.
But there's another problem...
By most accounts Winfield is a round 2 kid and I don't see him coming out of the cluster of players I have at Pick 41. First there are the R1 "refugees", those that get pushed out of the round. Then there are the top R2 grades... a group that now includes Chin.
Then there's the matter of the relative value of Davis in the 3rd.
Well....I went by "most accounts" by the experts....and not by your account. Though, actually, I did consider Davis (Cal) who in our draft went #43 at the top of the 2d round...and who CBS and others had right about there.
If the Browns actually took Davis with #41.....it could very well be a good pick.
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Physics will tell you it's no different than being hit by a 6'1, 210 guy.
My getting hung up on height is not a given. I'm good so long as the prospect's vertical and/or arm length compensate, but a 36" vert and 30-1/8" arm-length don't.
But there's another problem...
By most accounts Winfield is a round 2 kid and I don't see him coming out of the cluster of players I have at Pick 41. First there are the R1 "refugees", those that get pushed out of the round. Then there are the top R2 grades... a group that now includes Chin.
Then there's the matter of the relative value of Davis in the 3rd.
Well....I went by "most accounts" by the experts....and not by your account. Though, actually, I did consider Davis (Cal) who in our draft went #43 at the top of the 2d round...and who CBS and others had right about there.
If the Browns actually took Davis with #41.....it could very well be a good pick.
Well....I went by "most accounts" by the experts....and not by your account.
So you're admitting that you fucked up?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well....I went by "most accounts" by the experts....and not by your account.
So you're admitting that you fucked up?
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Hey... at least I tinted my reply...
Draft is moving along nicely.
I'll certainly call out the drafts I like.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Something that could never be said of us...
A wise man once told me never apologize for the impossible.
And a wise man once said that "forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for late pizza".
Physics will tell you it's no different than being hit by a 6'1, 210 guy.
Yeah, but I feel confident in being able to lower my strike zone on a guy that''s 6'1, minimizing surface area and contact space. A guy that's 5'8, 5'9? Not so much.
In short, I would rather be playing at full speed and deal with taking on Harrison Smith over Bob Sanders.
edit: I may be the conductor on the Chinn train, but I'm not sure how comfortable I feel taking him high 2nd round.
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Anthony McFarland RB Maryland worth a look on Day 3. 4.44 speed. Had 298 yards against OSU in 2018- 7.9 yards per carry that year. He dealt with a high ankle sprain all of 2019. So his value is going to be depressed a bit but the guy can fly. Possible Hunt replacement in 2021.
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