Browns Were Close to Signing Clowney
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JC is elite vs the run on the edge. Really no denying that. But his premium paid is as a pass rusher. That's not to say he won't have help should the Browns sign him. The guy has played across from JJ Watt so I'm sure having MG on the other side will be pretty sweet. But he's not Khalil Mack where he gets it done on his own. Still, he is somebody defenses have to account for. I guess I'm just going off of a "value" approach.
My issue really boils down to this.
- Contract length and guaranteed money.
Team friendly? Fuck it, bring him on board. Overpay? Pass.
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I still have not gotten past the amount of times Old Man Rivers tossed a edge sweep to Melvin Gordon & our D ? the bed.. Even with both being traded... Gordon just scored again ?.. Clowney can still play with his hair on fire... All stats still don't show up on a stat-sheet...all his game replays are free... 1) count the amount of times he forces QB's to get ball out of hand with no QB hit 2) Run Game.. if he's not making tackles? Clowney forces the play to turn inside for someone else to clean up the play...
Take the 2 Year deal... or leave a out at 2 years
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The plot thickens...
From an article in The Seattle Times...
One other interesting dynamic that adds to the idea that the Browns could be a serious suitor is that Clowney has the same agent as Cleveland standout defensive end Myles Garrett, who like Clowney was a first overall pick in the NFL draft (Clowney in 2014 out of South Carolina and Garrett in 2017 out of Texas A&M).
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He had a whopping 3 sacks...how much $ was that per sack? $2.66 million. That's lunacy, and notice Seattle didn't rush to bring him back.
3 on a team that had 28... 13 QB hits on a team that had 68... to say he was the focus of the passing Offenses he faced would be an understatement.
I let my PFF Elite lapse, but IIRC he had one of the highest EDGE grades vs the run in 2019.
Opposite MG... they'd both benefit... just as he (9.0; 21) and JJ (16.0; 25) did in HOU in 2018.
Signing Clowney for me would be a sign that we aren't just looking for incremental improvement this year... we're going for much more.
Garrett has a couple years left at a reasonable number before you have to Pay him big time
This, his 4th year, will run us just under $10mm and a 5th year option (must be exercised before May 2) would run around $15mm, but I have to believe we'll work towards an extension before the 5th year kicks in... maybe before the start of this season... in a front end heavy deal averaging north of $23mm/yr.
3 on a team that had 28... 13 QB hits on a team that had 68... to say he was the focus of the passing Offenses he faced would be an understatement.
I let my PFF Elite lapse, but IIRC he had one of the highest EDGE grades vs the run in 2019.
Opposite MG... they'd both benefit... just as he (9.0; 21) and JJ (16.0; 25) did in HOU in 2018.
Signing Clowney for me would be a sign that we aren't just looking for incremental improvement this year... we're going for much more.
This, his 4th year, will run us just under $10mm and a 5th year option (must be exercised before May 2) would run around $15mm, but I have to believe we'll work towards an extension before the 5th year kicks in... maybe before the start of this season... in a front end heavy deal averaging north of $23mm/yr.
You would never have to cite those excuses about LT, Haley, Suggs, et al. (I'm not saying you thought he was at that level.) But, if they got a motivated Clowney, then I'll be wrong. Garrett on one side, Clowney on the other?
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3 on a team that had 28... 13 QB hits on a team that had 68... to say he was the focus of the passing Offenses he faced would be an understatement.
I let my PFF Elite lapse, but IIRC he had one of the highest EDGE grades vs the run in 2019.
Opposite MG... they'd both benefit... just as he (9.0; 21) and JJ (16.0; 25) did in HOU in 2018.
Signing Clowney for me would be a sign that we aren't just looking for incremental improvement this year... we're going for much more.
This, his 4th year, will run us just under $10mm and a 5th year option (must be exercised before May 2) would run around $15mm, but I have to believe we'll work towards an extension before the 5th year kicks in... maybe before the start of this season... in a front end heavy deal averaging north of $23mm/yr.
You would never have to cite those excuses about LT, Haley, Suggs, et al. (I'm not saying you thought he was at that level.) But, if they got a motivated Clowney, then I'll be wrong. Garrett on one side, Clowney on the other?
You would never have to cite those excuses about LT, Haley, Suggs, et al. (I'm not saying you thought he was at that level.) But, if they got a motivated Clowney, then I'll be wrong. Garrett on one side, Clowney on the other?
Or even Clowney RE, Garrett LT and Vernon LE with Ogi still at LT. Talk about 4 man pressure and 4 man run stopping!
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3 on a team that had 28... 13 QB hits on a team that had 68... to say he was the focus of the passing Offenses he faced would be an understatement.
I let my PFF Elite lapse, but IIRC he had one of the highest EDGE grades vs the run in 2019.
Opposite MG... they'd both benefit... just as he (9.0; 21) and JJ (16.0; 25) did in HOU in 2018.
Signing Clowney for me would be a sign that we aren't just looking for incremental improvement this year... we're going for much more.
This, his 4th year, will run us just under $10mm and a 5th year option (must be exercised before May 2) would run around $15mm, but I have to believe we'll work towards an extension before the 5th year kicks in... maybe before the start of this season... in a front end heavy deal averaging north of $23mm/yr.
You would never have to cite those excuses about LT, Haley, Suggs, et al. (I'm not saying you thought he was at that level.) But, if they got a motivated Clowney, then I'll be wrong. Garrett on one side, Clowney on the other?
You would never have to cite those excuses about LT, Haley, Suggs, et al. (I'm not saying you thought he was at that level.) But, if they got a motivated Clowney, then I'll be wrong. Garrett on one side, Clowney on the other?
I did not see myself as making "excuses". What I thought I was doing was explaining why JC's sack total was low last season while at the same time demonstrating that sacks are not the total measure of any Edge's contributions. But I can see how that effort could be taken as an excuse... it's a thin line.
Your sack dream team is special... no doubt. LT produced just over two sacks every three games in his career while Suggs and Haley posted just under that mark. Clowney... just over one every two games. But again where data is available, Suggs' 3rd year and on, it shows that JC is closer in QB hits. Ditto for TFL stats.
I definitely reject the notion that Clowney being undermotivated was a factor in his 2019 performance. If it were, then that would show in his effort against the run... the less glamorous, grunt work part of an Edge's job. If it were, then Seattle would not be pursuing him as they are despite their relatively limited cap space.
Bottom line... Is he worth the money? Purely eye of the beholder stuff there. However, when you have the money, and in the short-term we do, then the question becomes... "Why not spend it on one of the best options you have?"
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
“However, when you have the money, and in the short-term we do, then the question becomes... "Why not spend it on one of the best options you have?"
This.
we have decisions to make in the next couple years. Baker, Garrett, Ward are the big ones. You have the cap space now. You will not have it when we sign two of those three to their next contracts BUT you can get creative in the interim and front load some of these deals to fit talents like Clowney with the current Nucleus above.
I can make a strong argument that Clowney is the best DE that is available in Free Agency or the draftit’s time to go all in. And you can do in a way that doesn’t impact your long term core of players.
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Is he still trying to set the DE market? If he will settle for like 1 year 20mil contract, then I dont really have a problem with it. Hes definitely a 5 million dollar improvement over Oliver. Garrett, Clowney, and Clayborn is a very nice DE group.
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Is he still trying to set the DE market? If he will settle for like 1 year 20mil contract, then I dont really have a problem with it. Hes definitely a 5 million dollar improvement over Oliver. Garrett, Clowney, and Clayborn is a very nice DE group.
Oliver. Garrett, Clowney, and Clayborn is a very nice DE group.
I agree. Try and get him as cheaply as you can. If he goes somewhere else, then so be it. It wasn't going to be a long term thing anyway. (most probably)
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Is he still trying to set the DE market? If he will settle for like 1 year 20mil contract, then I dont really have a problem with it. Hes definitely a 5 million dollar improvement over Oliver. Garrett, Clowney, and Clayborn is a very nice DE group.
Is he still trying to set the DE market?
Never was according to what I've read. Never asked for Mack money ($23mm/yr) or even Lawrence money ($21 per), but no telling what he's asked in guarantees, length etc. Whatever it was, he... meaning his agent... has apparently come off it some due to the underwhelming interest in meeting his price.
I'd guess something in the Trey Flowers area ($18mm per) area, but shorter duration with higher guarantees gets a deal done... but leaves the following question unanswered..
HTF did Flowers get that kind of money?
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Is he still trying to set the DE market?
Never was according to what I've read. Never asked for Mack money ($23mm/yr) or even Lawrence money ($21 per), but no telling what he's asked in guarantees, length etc. Whatever it was, he... meaning his agent... has apparently come off it some due to the underwhelming interest in meeting his price.
I'd guess something in the Trey Flowers area ($18mm per) area, but shorter duration with higher guarantees gets a deal done... but leaves the following question unanswered..
HTF did Flowers get that kind of money?
Never was according to what I've read. Never asked for Mack money ($23mm/yr) or even Lawrence money ($21 per), but no telling what he's asked in guarantees, length etc. Whatever it was, he... meaning his agent... has apparently come off it some due to the underwhelming interest in meeting his price.
I'd guess something in the Trey Flowers area ($18mm per) area, but shorter duration with higher guarantees gets a deal done... but leaves the following question unanswered..
HTF did Flowers get that kind of money?
Now that it's obvious, he ain't gonna get top edge rusher $, huge signing bonus, large guaranteed $, it might be agreeable. I would not be the fool that gives him big guaranteed $, and it looks like no one else will. If motivated by a "prove it" deal, then it could make sense.
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