Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls
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Back to the thread....which can be summarized in two sentences: Which Left Tackle should we all want the Browns to draft?
The one that the Browns scouting department thinks is best that is available when their turn comes.
We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5). I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle.
We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10. I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.
The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams. There is some nice depth at the tackle spot in this draft- Steele from TTU.
the other plausible solution is to trade up for the guy they want. I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows.
I like Jones from UH and Thomas from UGA in that order. I’m not crazy about Austin Jackson. Becton and Wirfs seem like awkward fits.
We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5). I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle.
We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10. I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.
Good points and thank you! The main reason I started this thread was to have some fun with a pre-draft discussion about favorite LT prospects for such a huge need at #10 overall. Part of that was to dig in and familiarize ourselves (as fans) with what is available, where they're projected and do we have a shot at them. That said, I honestly don't have any idea about what guys our scouting department/Callahan/FO like the most or who will still be available for us at #10 (and if those that are still available would prevent them from picking BPA at another position). The reason people on this board always like to do the mock drafts isn't really about knowing who our FO is going to select as much as it is about the fun of anticipating who we think/hope they may be interested in. Same intention here with this thread.
I don't know if this happens with others here; but my mind keeps changing on what I'd like us to do at #10 overall (especially if there's an early run on LTs that takes 3 or 4 off the board). One guy that's really grown on me if we go BPA is OLB Isaiah Simmons - especially with that being a huge need as well. What jumps out at me is how awesome this guy is against the pass whether he's in coverage or blitzing. He has 19 pass breakups in 3 years. In 2019, he had 16 tackles for a loss, 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 3 INTs, 7 pass breakups and 102 tackles. Looking at this 6'4" prospect with great speed and ideal instincts - he also has long arms that make him even tougher for passers to beat. Unfortunately, he'll probably be gone before #10 overall too.
The toughest thing for me as a fan to figure out is when the run on QBs will start and how many will go before #10. All this being said, I wouldn't rule out our FO being interested in a trade-up or trade-down in round 1. Stay tuned...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Back to the thread....which can be summarized in two sentences: Which Left Tackle should we all want the Browns to draft?
The one that the Browns scouting department thinks is best that is available when their turn comes.
We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5). I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle.
We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10. I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.
The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams. There is some nice depth at the tackle spot in this draft- Steele from TTU.
the other plausible solution is to trade up for the guy they want. I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows.
I like Jones from UH and Thomas from UGA in that order. I’m not crazy about Austin Jackson. Becton and Wirfs seem like awkward fits.
The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams.
Or the biggest band-aid in the box... Jason Peters. He'll buy you a year with no long-term cap implications.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Back to the thread....which can be summarized in two sentences: Which Left Tackle should we all want the Browns to draft?
The one that the Browns scouting department thinks is best that is available when their turn comes.
We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5). I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle.
We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10. I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.
The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams. There is some nice depth at the tackle spot in this draft- Steele from TTU.
the other plausible solution is to trade up for the guy they want. I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows.
I like Jones from UH and Thomas from UGA in that order. I’m not crazy about Austin Jackson. Becton and Wirfs seem like awkward fits.
I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows.
Agree... which raises some really interesting what-if scenarios should one of the two or three elite players in this draft fall to (or towards) us.
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We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5). I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle.
We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10. I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.
Good points and thank you! The main reason I started this thread was to have some fun with a pre-draft discussion about favorite LT prospects for such a huge need at #10 overall. Part of that was to dig in and familiarize ourselves (as fans) with what is available, where they're projected and do we have a shot at them. That said, I honestly don't have any idea about what guys our scouting department/Callahan/FO like the most or who will still be available for us at #10 (and if those that are still available would prevent them from picking BPA at another position). The reason people on this board always like to do the mock drafts isn't really about knowing who our FO is going to select as much as it is about the fun of anticipating who we think/hope they may be interested in. Same intention here with this thread.
I don't know if this happens with others here; but my mind keeps changing on what I'd like us to do at #10 overall (especially if there's an early run on LTs that takes 3 or 4 off the board). One guy that's really grown on me if we go BPA is OLB Isaiah Simmons - especially with that being a huge need as well. What jumps out at me is how awesome this guy is against the pass whether he's in coverage or blitzing. He has 19 pass breakups in 3 years. In 2019, he had 16 tackles for a loss, 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 3 INTs, 7 pass breakups and 102 tackles. Looking at this 6'4" prospect with great speed and ideal instincts - he also has long arms that make him even tougher for passers to beat. Unfortunately, he'll probably be gone before #10 overall too.
The toughest thing for me as a fan to figure out is when the run on QBs will start and how many will go before #10. All this being said, I wouldn't rule out our FO being interested in a trade-up or trade-down in round 1. Stay tuned...
Good points and thank you!
Not to mention as close to a concession by Gipper as I've ever seen...
Maybe he's seen the light?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows.
Agree... which raises some really interesting what-if scenarios should one of the two or three elite players in this draft fall to (or towards) us.
Agree... which raises some really interesting what-if scenarios should one of the two or three elite players in this draft fall to (or towards) us.
Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
We could have some really good problems if Tua falls toward us or a couple teams think a guy like Love is the next Mahomes.
Overall, I don’t see this as a top heavy draft just a few elite guys but there are some really intriguing prospects in the middle that many analysts aren’t giving credit
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The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams.
Or the biggest band-aid in the box... Jason Peters. He'll buy you a year with no long-term cap implications.
Or the biggest band-aid in the box... Jason Peters. He'll buy you a year with no long-term cap implications.
I thought he struggled to stay healthy but he’s produced 16, 14 13 start seasons consistently over the past 7 years. He had one year where he started 7 games. He’s not a bad option if we can’t find our guy at LT
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Agree... which raises some really interesting what-if scenarios should one of the two or three elite players in this draft fall to (or towards) us.
Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
We could have some really good problems if Tua falls toward us or a couple teams think a guy like Love is the next Mahomes.
Overall, I don’t see this as a top heavy draft just a few elite guys but there are some really intriguing prospects in the middle that many analysts aren’t giving credit
Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
That is a huge question. Isaiah Simmons or a LT... Thomas vs Simmons...that is really tough. Maybe there isn't any other lb like Simmons later, but a LT that could develop into a terrific one, while being able to start and be ready by the regular season. I'd be fascinated to know what the Browns staff would have done, after the draft is over.
If Thomas is there... we could pick my lb in the third? round - Logan Wilson. But Wilson isn't Simmons.
Or, we take Simmons, and take.... Ben Bartch OLT , third round? Without individual workouts, it's a tough call.
I mention third round, because I'd have to go safety - I don't believe Dugger or Tiam's Chinn will last til the Browns pick in the third.
This draft is going to be amazing.
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Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
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As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
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If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
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I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
Do you like Steak or Lobster?
but it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
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Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
Do you like Steak or Lobster?
but it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
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Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
I hope my #1 overall QB is the guy or we have bigger problems so yes I’d have a scenario (cap in mind) that I’m paying him like a franchise QB.
If for some strange reason Okudah drops out of the Top 5. I’m making a call to #6. I’m not living out fear necessarily that Ward leaves or his hammy keeps him out almost half the year. But I know I need two guys ( I don’t think too highly of our CB position group) and maybe I view Okudah and a few others well above some of these RT trying to play LT. I was highly critical of the Browns defense the last half of 2019. We have Myles back we still have a ways to go IMO so I'm saying Defense is a need in general especially disrupting the passer or WRs.
If we stay at 10 - considering BPA and Need I’d be more than happy with Thomas or Jones. I think Jones in a trade back is ideal.
Im hearing a lot of the Browns may settle on the 3rd or 4th tackle at 10. “Just take a tackle and be done with it”. Honestly I don’t see 3 or 4 tackles worthy of a top 10 pick- and I'd guess that Browns may have 1st round grades on some and 2nd on others.So we all need to potentially brace ourselves if we don't take a tackle.
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It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
I hope my #1 overall QB is the guy or we have bigger problems so yes I’d have a scenario (cap in mind) that I’m paying him like a franchise QB.
If for some strange reason Okudah drops out of the Top 5. I’m making a call to #6. I’m not living out fear necessarily that Ward leaves or his hammy keeps him out almost half the year. But I know I need two guys ( I don’t think too highly of our CB position group) and maybe I view Okudah and a few others well above some of these RT trying to play LT. I was highly critical of the Browns defense the last half of 2019. We have Myles back we still have a ways to go IMO so I'm saying Defense is a need in general especially disrupting the passer or WRs.
If we stay at 10 - considering BPA and Need I’d be more than happy with Thomas or Jones. I think Jones in a trade back is ideal.
Im hearing a lot of the Browns may settle on the 3rd or 4th tackle at 10. “Just take a tackle and be done with it”. Honestly I don’t see 3 or 4 tackles worthy of a top 10 pick- and I'd guess that Browns may have 1st round grades on some and 2nd on others.So we all need to potentially brace ourselves if we don't take a tackle.
I hope my #1 overall QB is the guy or we have bigger problems so yes I’d have a scenario (cap in mind) that I’m paying him like a franchise QB.
If for some strange reason Okudah drops out of the Top 5. I’m making a call to #6. I’m not living out fear necessarily that Ward leaves or his hammy keeps him out almost half the year. But I know I need two guys ( I don’t think too highly of our CB position group) and maybe I view Okudah and a few others well above some of these RT trying to play LT. I was highly critical of the Browns defense the last half of 2019. We have Myles back we still have a ways to go IMO so I'm saying Defense is a need in general especially disrupting the passer or WRs.
If we stay at 10 - considering BPA and Need I’d be more than happy with Thomas or Jones. I think Jones in a trade back is ideal.
Im hearing a lot of the Browns may settle on the 3rd or 4th tackle at 10. “Just take a tackle and be done with it”. Honestly I don’t see 3 or 4 tackles worthy of a top 10 pick- and I'd guess that Browns may have 1st round grades on some and 2nd on others.So we all need to potentially brace ourselves if we don't take a tackle.
Sadly hope is not a plan. The idea already has to be in mind for this front office with a several year plan involving helping Baker now, and then determining if he is our long term solution. When the draft is over, roster settled and coaches adjusted and ready on the eve of the season, then can they are allowed to "hope". Because at that point, short of an in-season trade, there is little else they can do.
I may not agree with your reasoning, but it is sound. Essentially saying you elevate Okudah's drafting above positions of need based on elite play and not being overly fond of our current crop of DB's. That's fair.
Taking any position "just to be done with it" is how GM's wind up drafting a Blaine Gabbert and anchoring him to their career. So I would hope and trust that Barry isn't just drafting a tackle for the sake of addressing the need. That is a fools strategy and the complete opposite of what I would do. As of right now, I only value 2 true LT's in the 1st round. Andrew Thomas and my luke-warm current feeling on Josh Jones.
But if the Browns have a plan to address the position in the 2nd or 3rd round, I would be ok with that. However I won't be overly thrilled by Simmons, 10 the assets netted from a trade down had better blow my fucking mind and I'm hoping Matt Peart is in our plans.
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Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
- What percentage is nickel with 3 CB's? Not sure, but nickel is 60-65% of your snaps. Whether it's big nickel or not. So I would expect our thin safety depth to be addressed in the coming draft.
- Okudah. When I see him, I think of Nnamdi. And I did love me some Nnamdi. But I have to ask myself, at the end of the day, what will be more impactful for this team? Securing the ends on the Oline or adding another corner? Do we want to give Baker every chance to succeed? Then if the best LT in the draft drops to you, common sense would be to take him. I do believe Jeff will be a good player in the NFL. But my weighing the cost vs Andrew Thomas? I feel like AT wins that battle in my mind. Jury is out on Greedy and I'm willing to give him time based on the fact that our previous DC's pension for his defenses being bitch-made didn't help.
- I'm not sold on Simmons as a will backer over Kenneth Murray. Not on an every down basis going from working between the tackles, processing everything at game speed and then executing. It's a different monster than floating further back, playing off a hash or split out over a slot. And he is another player that has made his bones being the most physically gifted on the field. I don't see the next Derwin James and I'm hard pressed to find a comparison outside of Buccannon. Whom nobody would call a top 10 pick now. (Mark Barron, anyone?)
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If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
Yes you did you are taking about Kevin Johnson a former 1st rounder on a one year deal and Greedy who was selected by Dorsey.
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