Good idea? Maybe Browns trade down with Atlanta?
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Interesting! These are the 7 thoughts/predictions from the author in Darren's link (worth reading especially considering the smoke screens and trades that will be happening in the week ahead):
I know that the article may have answered some of these, but I have questions
1. Cleveland would love to trade back from #10
If they did so, what would we expect in return...and would they expect to get an acceptable RT
2. Wirfs is Cleveland's top rated OT
OK, but is it fair to say that if they move from #10 that they would not get him? (also being mindful that he may not be there at #10 even. ...and he IS who I took for the Browns on our Board mock)
3. The idea of adding a veteran LT is still very much on the table
Peters? (can we assume it would be someone they do not have to give up picks for...like Williams?)
4. The Browns are more open to passing on OT at #10 than expected
I have seen where most think there is a big dropoff after the top 4-5 guys that could/should go in first half of round one. Can they risk that? And wouldn't they only risk that if one of those who are considered top 5....Simmons/Okuhda are still on the board?
5. The Browns are probably taking at least 1 WR on Friday
Sure, in late rounds. I took Elijah Lipscomb from Vandy (though I suspect there are a dozen others to consider in 5th/6th/7th to consider)
6. The team's love for OT Ezra Cleveland is real but it's also overblown.
By that I assume it means they may go for him...in like round 3 rather than round 2?
7. The Browns will draft LB Logan Wilson and the $300 contribution from Calfox will be donated to a local charity.
4th round? If they don't get an ILB prior to that.
Good questions you ask about the guy's predictions/thoughts.
1. Cleveland would love to trade back from #10
If they did so, what would we expect in return...and would they expect to get an acceptable RT - Gipper
An extra 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick hopefully? I'm guessing you meant to say LT and I'm confident we can get an acceptable one. In saying that, we may be cutting it close for an immediate starter depending on how far back (which could also have us picking a BPA at another position). The next tier has Matt Peart at the top of it; but that may entice us to also add a FA like Jason Peters while Peart gets acquainted with his new position protecting the blindside of QB. One thing to consider here regarding Peart, it wasn't that long ago when we had an Undrafted FA (Harrison) from a small school exceeding some expectations early on before opponents went after his bad habits, limitations and vulnerabilities they found on film. Peart is a much more promising prospect than that with a lot of upside if we go that route. - Me
2. Wirfs is Cleveland's top rated OT
OK, but is it fair to say that if they move from #10 that they would not get him? (also being mindful that he may not be there at #10 even. ...and he IS who I took for the Browns on our Board mock) - Gipper
Here's the key with this potential smoke screen. They were careful not to specify LT since he's played RT for all but 3 or 4 games as a 3 year starter (which included starting as a true freshman). Looking at what we signed Conklin for to play RT - they don't want a RT early if at all with Hubbard still on board as the backup IMO. What they do want is for teams slotted behind us to know Wirfs is our top rated OT. That could either be to hope it prevents those teams from trading up in front of us or to encourage them to trade up. Poker at it's best? - Me
3. The idea of adding a veteran LT is still very much on the table
Peters? (can we assume it would be someone they do not have to give up picks for...like Williams?) - Gipper
Yes (Yes) - Me
4. The Browns are more open to passing on OT at #10 than expected
I have seen where most think there is a big dropoff after the top 4-5 guys that could/should go in first half of round one. Can they risk that? And wouldn't they only risk that if one of those who are considered top 5....Simmons/Okuhda are still on the board? - Gipper
Keep in mind, 2 of those top 5 or so require moving from RT to LT. That's probably going to include more learning curves and growing pains than some are anticipating. Some scouts actually think it may be better to play Wirfs at RT or OG. If they are accurate, wouldn't we be reaching for him at #10 overall especially if LT is the bare cupboard (top priority)? At least the type of plan they'd have with a guy like Peart after round 1 would give people reasonable expectations in terms of when he'd be ready to start at his new position LT. This would probably include a plan with a FA vet like Peters (my guess is other teams are thinking about signing him too if the demand for immediate starters at LT exceeds the supply).
I did a ton of drafts on that PFF simulator, Simmons never made it to #10 and Okudah often went before him. That doesn't mean the draft will play out that way too. FWIW, you should try that. It takes a few times to get used to it but it's a fun. I'll tell you what would tempt me on the BPA thing and it will NOT be popular at all in here - if a WR like Jerry Jeudy or CeeDee Lamb (former teammate of Baker's) or Justin Jefferson (VERY underrated 6'3" target with 18 TD receptions last year) lands on our doorstep. The memories of OBJ blowing in opponents' ears after games "get me outta here" is hard to shake in terms of counting on him as our #1 for very much longer JMO. An old coach used to tell us, this game has adversity and how we respond to it will define us. His favorite saying was "60 hitters - no quitters." Telling opponents you'd rather play for them is quitting on your teammates and nothing to take lightly. Maybe I should have seen his lack of priority to come get on the same page with his new team/QB/playbook at the mini-camps/OTAs as more of a red flag than I did at the time. If he doesn't want to be in Cleveland - he's not doing us any favors. - Me
5. The Browns are probably taking at least 1 WR on Friday.
Sure, in late rounds. I took Elijah Lipscomb from Vandy (though I suspect there are a dozen others to consider in 5th/6th/7th to consider) - Gipper
Yeah, I liked what you did with that. But, if the guy specified at least 1 WR on Friday - he's talking rounds 2-3. - Me
6. The team's love for OT Ezra Cleveland is real but it's also overblown.
By that I assume it means they may go for him...in like round 3 rather than round 2? - Gipper
Something along that line in terms of priority level. I'd hate to see us trade up into round 1 for him and reduce our draft volume to do so. I watched the film of him vrs FSU and got an awful first impression of him. His good plays were more occasional than I would like for an alleged solution to our LT vacancy. He's no strong at all. His pad height often forfeits the legs under him. I could go on and on and on with what I found too inconsistent to get excited about. While it was only 1 game, the bad habits didn't change from series to series. All that said, I'm just a fan that needs my day job. After failing on Corbet with the first pick of round 2 - can we afford to flush another high pick (even via trade-back) down the toilet? 1 cycle we HAVE to break is our inability to draft a starter we consider a keeper. Bitonio is the only one we have. Berry did a very good job in free agency and I've read that Callahan's input will be strongly considered so I think we can get the right fit/plan at LT once it all plays out. - Me
7. The Browns will draft LB Logan Wilson and the $300 contribution from Calfox will be donated to a local charity.
4th round? If they don't get an ILB prior to that. - Gipper
Gonna be honest - I don't know enough about him to be fair. Athlon's draft guide has him as their 7th ranked ILB while Lindy's lists him as their 5th highest rated ILB. 1 thing I can say heading into the draft is the only position on the LB Corp that has a penciled in starter right now is FA MLB (B.J. Goodson). Understanding we have 2 vacancies at OLB and there's only so many rounds that provide immediate starters. I'm very interested in seeing what we do with those opportunities... - Me
Those are good questions so
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Good questions you ask about the guy's predictions/thoughts.
1. Cleveland would love to trade back from #10
If they did so, what would we expect in return...and would they expect to get an acceptable RT - Gipper
An extra 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick hopefully? I'm guessing you meant to say LT and I'm confident we can get an acceptable one. In saying that, we may be cutting it close for an immediate starter depending on how far back (which could also have us picking a BPA at another position). The next tier has Matt Peart at the top of it; but that may entice us to also add a FA like Jason Peters while Peart gets acquainted with his new position protecting the blindside of QB. One thing to consider here regarding Peart, it wasn't that long ago when we had an Undrafted FA (Harrison) from a small school exceeding some expectations early on before opponents went after his bad habits, limitations and vulnerabilities they found on film. Peart is a much more promising prospect than that with a lot of upside if we go that route. - Me
2. Wirfs is Cleveland's top rated OT
OK, but is it fair to say that if they move from #10 that they would not get him? (also being mindful that he may not be there at #10 even. ...and he IS who I took for the Browns on our Board mock) - Gipper
Here's the key with this potential smoke screen. They were careful not to specify LT since he's played RT for all but 3 or 4 games as a 3 year starter (which included starting as a true freshman). Looking at what we signed Conklin for to play RT - they don't want a RT early if at all with Hubbard still on board as the backup IMO. What they do want is for teams slotted behind us to know Wirfs is our top rated OT. That could either be to hope it prevents those teams from trading up in front of us or to encourage them to trade up. Poker at it's best? - Me
3. The idea of adding a veteran LT is still very much on the table
Peters? (can we assume it would be someone they do not have to give up picks for...like Williams?) - Gipper
Yes (Yes) - Me
4. The Browns are more open to passing on OT at #10 than expected
I have seen where most think there is a big dropoff after the top 4-5 guys that could/should go in first half of round one. Can they risk that? And wouldn't they only risk that if one of those who are considered top 5....Simmons/Okuhda are still on the board? - Gipper
Keep in mind, 2 of those top 5 or so require moving from RT to LT. That's probably going to include more learning curves and growing pains than some are anticipating. Some scouts actually think it may be better to play Wirfs at RT or OG. If they are accurate, wouldn't we be reaching for him at #10 overall especially if LT is the bare cupboard (top priority)? At least the type of plan they'd have with a guy like Peart after round 1 would give people reasonable expectations in terms of when he'd be ready to start at his new position LT. This would probably include a plan with a FA vet like Peters (my guess is other teams are thinking about signing him too if the demand for immediate starters at LT exceeds the supply).
I did a ton of drafts on that PFF simulator, Simmons never made it to #10 and Okudah often went before him. That doesn't mean the draft will play out that way too. FWIW, you should try that. It takes a few times to get used to it but it's a fun. I'll tell you what would tempt me on the BPA thing and it will NOT be popular at all in here - if a WR like Jerry Jeudy or CeeDee Lamb (former teammate of Baker's) or Justin Jefferson (VERY underrated 6'3" target with 18 TD receptions last year) lands on our doorstep. The memories of OBJ blowing in opponents' ears after games "get me outta here" is hard to shake in terms of counting on him as our #1 for very much longer JMO. An old coach used to tell us, this game has adversity and how we respond to it will define us. His favorite saying was "60 hitters - no quitters." Telling opponents you'd rather play for them is quitting on your teammates and nothing to take lightly. Maybe I should have seen his lack of priority to come get on the same page with his new team/QB/playbook at the mini-camps/OTAs as more of a red flag than I did at the time. If he doesn't want to be in Cleveland - he's not doing us any favors. - Me
5. The Browns are probably taking at least 1 WR on Friday.
Sure, in late rounds. I took Elijah Lipscomb from Vandy (though I suspect there are a dozen others to consider in 5th/6th/7th to consider) - Gipper
Yeah, I liked what you did with that. But, if the guy specified at least 1 WR on Friday - he's talking rounds 2-3. - Me
6. The team's love for OT Ezra Cleveland is real but it's also overblown.
By that I assume it means they may go for him...in like round 3 rather than round 2? - Gipper
Something along that line in terms of priority level. I'd hate to see us trade up into round 1 for him and reduce our draft volume to do so. I watched the film of him vrs FSU and got an awful first impression of him. His good plays were more occasional than I would like for an alleged solution to our LT vacancy. He's no strong at all. His pad height often forfeits the legs under him. I could go on and on and on with what I found too inconsistent to get excited about. While it was only 1 game, the bad habits didn't change from series to series. All that said, I'm just a fan that needs my day job. After failing on Corbet with the first pick of round 2 - can we afford to flush another high pick (even via trade-back) down the toilet? 1 cycle we HAVE to break is our inability to draft a starter we consider a keeper. Bitonio is the only one we have. Berry did a very good job in free agency and I've read that Callahan's input will be strongly considered so I think we can get the right fit/plan at LT once it all plays out. - Me
7. The Browns will draft LB Logan Wilson and the $300 contribution from Calfox will be donated to a local charity.
4th round? If they don't get an ILB prior to that. - Gipper
Gonna be honest - I don't know enough about him to be fair. Athlon's draft guide has him as their 7th ranked ILB while Lindy's lists him as their 5th highest rated ILB. 1 thing I can say heading into the draft is the only position on the LB Corp that has a penciled in starter right now is FA MLB (B.J. Goodson). Understanding we have 2 vacancies at OLB and there's only so many rounds that provide immediate starters. I'm very interested in seeing what we do with those opportunities... - Me
Those are good questions so
Those are good questions so
Couple of notes:
A. Yes I meant LT rather than RT.......but, I guess a question is: how fungible, really is the tackle position. For many a long year it was presumed that there was LT talent and RT talent, and never the twain shall meet. But now, seemingly, that may not be the case. HOw interchangeable have the two positions become....and are there people who are still strictly either LT or RT talent, and are there others that can be bisexual....and play on either side?
B. Are you not putting Mack Wilson in as a starter, in ink, or are you just writing him in , in pencil. What kind of defensive scheme do we think the Browns employ? 3-4/4-3 or something else. On another thread, Woody claims that LBs are no longer important players on defense (though the stats are that LBs last were held 17 of the top 20 "tackles made" spots in the league). Tour seemingly went along with him, though I think he took that tact just in order to be contrarian toward me. What do you think about all that? Personally I think we need a guy early on in the draft...either 2d or 3rd round...assuming they go tackle in round 1. Could depend on which LB or safety is there at #41. Of course they could fake us both out.
C. I don't think I will get into the draft sim game. I spent a lot of time working on our board mock, and the real draft is just days away, so I probably won't play.
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No deal, no trade. The next time Browns "hit" on any extra picks from a trade down.. will be the first.
Need hits rather than random collections of picks.
The extra picks are useful in Madden -- not in the real world.
This ezra cleveland imposter looks more like Tony Mandarich instead of the Joe Thomas we need.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I like a good trade down - it can reap tremendous rewards.
But, when you draft stupidly, it's not worth it. That has been the Browns' problem.
If Thomas, Simmons, or Jones are there, I think I would stay and pick one.
That's just me - but if I "knew" a LT would be just as good as Jones...
I could trade down and pick that LT AND get another first round pick.
Meanwhile, I wonder...the Browns have signed two safeties - would that mean they
would take a safety later on, past the second round now?
If the Browns pick brilliantly - draft football players instead of combine guys who don't love the game...
trading down could really reap huge rewards.
I swear I'd like to put our TV out on the deck and watch in around the fire. This is going to be FUN.
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I'm more in favor of trading up than trading back. We HAVE to land starting LT and everybody knows it. I doubt Thomas is there at 10 regardless of what the experts say. Hes a proven LT and I bet hes the first one off the board. If he isn't doesnt land in striking distance than I would probably stand pat at 10 and take Jones. No reason to get cute.
I'm more in favor of trading up than trading back. We HAVE to land starting LT and everybody knows it. I doubt Thomas is there at 10 regardless of what the experts say. Hes a proven LT and I bet hes the first one off the board. If he isn't doesnt land in striking distance than I would probably stand pat at 10 and take Jones. No reason to get cute.
As you say, no reason to get cute. If Thomas is there at 10, take him and call it a night: biggest need filled with a blue chip player. What else can you ask for?
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No deal, no trade. The next time Browns "hit" on any extra picks from a trade down.. will be the first.
Need hits rather than random collections of picks.
The extra picks are useful in Madden -- not in the real world.
This ezra cleveland imposter looks more like Tony Mandarich instead of the Joe Thomas we need.
No deal, no trade. The next time Browns "hit" on any extra picks from a trade down.. will be the first.
Need hits rather than random collections of picks.
The extra picks are useful in Madden -- not in the real world.
This ezra cleveland imposter looks more like Tony Mandarich instead of the Joe Thomas we need.
The Browns trading down and then taking the 6th-8th best OT would be the ultimate ode to Sashi from his former underlings...
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Yes... by all means let's let history dictate all our draft day moves because it's so determinative.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yes... by all means let's let history dictate all our draft day moves because it's so determinative.
Yes... by all means let's let history dictate all our draft day moves because it's so determinative.
Don't worry Tour, the Browns won't do this, obviously.
If they had let history be their guide, they would have never decided to go with The Process, Part Deux.
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I'm more in favor of trading up than trading back. We HAVE to land starting LT and everybody knows it. I doubt Thomas is there at 10 regardless of what the experts say. Hes a proven LT and I bet hes the first one off the board. If he isn't doesnt land in striking distance than I would probably stand pat at 10 and take Jones. No reason to get cute.
As you say, no reason to get cute. If Thomas is there at 10, take him and call it a night: biggest need filled with a blue chip player. What else can you ask for?
As you say, no reason to get cute. If Thomas is there at 10, take him and call it a night: biggest need filled with a blue chip player. What else can you ask for?
Nothing. It's gotta be the choice.
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While we're speculating, I wouldn't mind giving our second to NYJ in a swap for jamal adams who has been on the chopping block there for the last 2 years.
What's that? They might not accept? In my fantasy world which is no less plausible than everything else on this thread, the Jets are the next destination for self-appointed genius Bill O'Brien, who accepts all trades if he's losing them.
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Don't worry Tour, the Browns won't do this, obviously.
If they had let history be their guide, they would have never decided to go with The Process, Part Deux.
And yet you are still here...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Don't worry Tour, the Browns won't do this, obviously.
If they had let history be their guide, they would have never decided to go with The Process, Part Deux.
And yet you are still here...
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And why wouldn't I be?
Other places to spread your special brand of sunshine?
Here's an article for you... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/money-time-for-moneyball-can-analytics-finally-work-for-the-cleveland-browns.html
The temptation will be to trade down in the draft. DePodesta said the team was open to dealing up or down, but admitted, “We do have a philosophy, that more picks is better.”
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And why wouldn't I be?
Other places to spread your special brand of sunshine?
Here's an article for you... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/money-time-for-moneyball-can-analytics-finally-work-for-the-cleveland-browns.html
The temptation will be to trade down in the draft. DePodesta said the team was open to dealing up or down, but admitted, “We do have a philosophy, that more picks is better.”
Other places to spread your special brand of sunshine?
Here's an article for you... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/money-time-for-moneyball-can-analytics-finally-work-for-the-cleveland-browns.html
Another great article from Pluto says Flugel from Mars...
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