The me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd
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Where are they going to go? Seriously.
Where are they going to go? Seriously.
Hmmm.
Lets see....
Where do the Kennedys keep a huge portion of their fortune?
The Kerrys?
Grand Caymans? Swiss banks?
Where do manufacturing jobs go?
Right to work states? China?
The world is a big place.
There wasn't much competition in 1955.
Now there is.
WSS
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The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
Those who don't impose as punitive taxes on business as we do Sev.
WSS
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I will pose a question here, When do the top 5% say up yours and refuse to pay anymore taxes?
When you start adding up what most of them are allready paying you are getting close to almost 50% when you add in Fed, State, Local, sales tax and soon obamacare taxes with energy taxes and who knows a VAT that will screw everybody over regardless how much money you earn.
Top 5% wage earners are those who earn $153,542 or more per year before taxes.
consider a family with duel income, thats going to gut them even more, not to mention small business owners who provide the majority of jobs in America.
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The wealthy in the United States are wealthy because at some point in their family, someone provided a product/service that benefited someone else and they were rewarded. I'm not talking about criminals like Enron, etc. I'm talking about legitimate business.
That's how free enterprise works. If you don't provide a good product/service at a good price, someone else will come along and compete with you. If you don't respond, people won't buy your product/service and you'll be out of business.
The more you attack the producer and give to the non-producer, the less incentive the producer has to continue producing. Why bust my hump when the guy sitting on the park bench gets the same deal? I think I'll sit on the park bench. The degree to which you do that is directly related to the poverty of the nation because when you do that enough, eventually the producer stops producing, and when that happens everyone is worse off. The USA is the wealthiest nation in the world because we interfere in free enterprise less than any other nation.
You can examine any nation in history that has done that to a high degree (USSR, Argentina, North Korea, India until recently) and look at how much of the GDP is controlled by government and compare that to how poor the people are.
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this is great....the entrepreneurs that built this country are demonized because others feel they are entitled to something they didn't work for.....
no wonder this country is going into the shitter....no one wants to work for anything anymore. it doesn't matter how much harder, how much more sacrifice somone had to make to get ahead....you have more than i do, your an evil 'i have mine' asshole.
cool, since this is the popular thing, i think once my company goes belly up later this year, i'll just mooch off all the rest of you "lucky" enough to keep working. least maybe i'll get an iphone on the state dollar.
thanks for the healthcare suckers....
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this is cyclical you dont think that potential taxes are accounted for in product/service costs and passed on to the consumer?
Maybe the sum total due to slower sales or total less potential profit is the difference for business owners and entrepreneurs is less salary or slower expansion... Maybe.... or it could be a catalyst for innovation as obstacles often are.
For the top 15% that 2-10% decrease in total profit might be the difference for not buying that extra vacation home or vehicle..
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The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
Psst Sev....
They have socialized health care in Mexico and Korea but here you are.
Egad!!!!
Maybe there's more to it?
WSS
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Steve IF that was some sort of negative cultural comment I am going to ask for you to refrain from that.
My family is in South Korea and some in Mexico, I do go to both countries and own property in both. Not to mention my father was MEXICAN AMERICAN BORN HERE... served in Vietnam, like quite of few of my south korean family as ROK marines in support of the U.S.
I think I am just as much American as you are and proud of my heritage like you seem to be of your scottish descent. Not to mention I have served in support of this country and hold equal citizenship.
Evidently you know little of south korean society and economics. Our free market trillion dollar economy and highest level of scientific literacy in the world and second highest in mathematics literacy along with the highest broadband access and in the top three in I.T. technology in the world.
However because of the crazy amount of power the free market special interest has on healthcare the universal coverage system is deeply flawed.
the laissez faire or lack of controls on specialists practices and overuse of expensive testing and technology by medical centers and the pharm industries unchecked pushing of new expensive drugs (not to mention pharmicists can sell drugs without doctor prescriptions drug lobbyists...)
80% of practicing doctors are "specialists" Almost 90% of all medical rescources (hospital beds) are consumed by private for profit medical companies,
The for profit industries because of the amount of control and how the culture sees business and money are almost in total control of the goverment... kind of like here.......
I am glad your attempted disparaging comment brought up a recent case study in why our system is so screwed up and the for profit industry left unchecked can collapse service and increase costs massively in a advanced economic country. Supply side controls are absolutely necessary to create a stable health care system.... one that we dont have here or in South Korea.
As for one of the reasons I choose my main bulk of living in this country versus others I have options in... It is not economic or economic freedom because I enjoy better access to technology and greater economic freedom in south korea than here.
I have a daughter and do not like the male dominated culture and ideology that is prevalent in south korea, I will not teach my sons to grow up to treat women as objects or expose my daughter to cultural deference because of sex. That is my number one reason of choice of living here than in south Korea the other is a madman that is starving and putting my people in concentration camps and could possibly launch attacks in our 50+ years of this cease fire.
As for my hispanic culture.... considering that they are over 3 generations of when my great great grandfather immigrated to Texas I think that My deceased grandfather serving in WW2 and my father serving in Vietnam qualifies us as being american.... I do have family in Ensanada and spent some time there I dont think that qualifies me as a Mexican citizen.
Keep your attempted cultural derogatory comments to yourself. I think both of my families hispanic here and South Korean have served and supported this country along with myself to qualify me as mostly American that is culturally influenced by two other peoples.
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Steve IF that was some sort of negative cultural comment I am going to ask for you to refrain from that.
My family is in South Korea and some in Mexico, I do go to both countries and own property in both. Not to mention my father was MEXICAN AMERICAN BORN HERE... served in Vietnam, like quite of few of my south korean family as ROK marines in support of the U.S.
I think I am just as much American as you are and proud of my heritage like you seem to be of your scottish descent. Not to mention I have served in support of this country and hold equal citizenship.
Evidently you know little of south korean society and economics. Our free market trillion dollar economy and highest level of scientific literacy in the world and second highest in mathematics literacy along with the highest broadband access and in the top three in I.T. technology in the world.
However because of the crazy amount of power the free market special interest has on healthcare the universal coverage system is deeply flawed.
the laissez faire or lack of controls on specialists practices and overuse of expensive testing and technology by medical centers and the pharm industries unchecked pushing of new expensive drugs (not to mention pharmicists can sell drugs without doctor prescriptions drug lobbyists...)
80% of practicing doctors are "specialists" Almost 90% of all medical rescources (hospital beds) are consumed by private for profit medical companies,
The for profit industries because of the amount of control and how the culture sees business and money are almost in total control of the goverment... kind of like here.......
I am glad your attempted disparaging comment brought up a recent case study in why our system is so screwed up and the for profit industry left unchecked can collapse service and increase costs massively in a advanced economic country. Supply side controls are absolutely necessary to create a stable health care system.... one that we dont have here or in South Korea.
As for one of the reasons I choose my main bulk of living in this country versus others I have options in... It is not economic or economic freedom because I enjoy better access to technology and greater economic freedom in south korea than here.
I have a daughter and do not like the male dominated culture and ideology that is prevalent in south korea, I will not teach my sons to grow up to treat women as objects or expose my daughter to cultural deference because of sex. That is my number one reason of choice of living here than in south Korea the other is a madman that is starving and putting my people in concentration camps and could possibly launch attacks in our 50+ years of this cease fire.
As for my hispanic culture.... considering that they are over 3 generations of when my great great grandfather immigrated to Texas I think that My deceased grandfather serving in WW2 and my father serving in Vietnam qualifies us as being american.... I do have family in Ensanada and spent some time there I dont think that qualifies me as a Mexican citizen.
Keep your attempted cultural derogatory comments to yourself. I think both of my families hispanic here and South Korean have served and supported this country along with myself to qualify me as mostly American that is culturally influenced by two other peoples.
Steve IF that was some sort of negative cultural comment I am going to ask for you to refrain from that.
Spare me your faux outrage Sev.
You made the smart ass statement that it'd be ridiculous that someone might leave the US due to excessive taxation to go to a country that already has SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.
So I point out that some of your own people LEFT COUNTRIES WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE to come here.
If you read your own shit it might become clearer.
WSS
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Let me guess "faux" outrage? really.... most likely a guy like you never served or have lived outside the country to really know anything except in your own little microcosm.
"my" own countryman..... left "socialized" medicine you must mean South Korean health care I assume.... Like you normally do you make generalizations about which your ignorance is glaring......
READ slowly..... 90 % of all medical resources are owned by private for profit health care companies.... 80% of of all doctors are classified as specialists..... drugs can be sold by any pharmacist....
South Korea may have a centralized health admin plan but the supply side of the system is not regulated or controlled nor are 90% assets..... Thats just called window dressing...... I know in your total ignorance of South korean well anything you like to make little stupid generalizations about terminology like "socialist healthcare" but one you nothing about. Which like usual is your normal MO.
Like other topics your mouth talks about things your mind knows nothing about. Stick to singing your folk songs in Hibernian halls and bars leave topics like health care for adults. I would assume my family serving in two wars here and immigrated over 100 years ago from Mexico should define them as Americans... I bet My south korean family has done more Serving American causes than you ever have.
You know whats funny about your stances is you are one of the idiots that democratic reform would help massively and these "freedoms and tax cuts" that your level of income would never reach to be taxed in the first place. I am sure with all of your shows my guess is you pay very little taxes anyways....
Seriously Steve at least Cal trys to post information from some source to back up his positions you just make little quips and generalizations mixed with some sarcasm... pretty much useless as any sort of contributor. Just one of those idiots who show up shouting at these town halls that does not know anything but knows to yell and make useless noise.
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Let me guess "faux" outrage? really.... most likely a guy like you never served or have lived outside the country to really know anything except in your own little microcosm.
"my" own countryman..... left "socialized" medicine you must mean South Korean health care I assume.... Like you normally do you make generalizations about which your ignorance is glaring......
READ slowly..... 90 % of all medical resources are owned by private for profit health care companies.... 80% of of all doctors are classified as specialists..... drugs can be sold by any pharmacist....
South Korea may have a centralized health admin plan but the supply side of the system is not regulated or controlled nor are 90% assets..... Thats just called window dressing...... I know in your total ignorance of South korean well anything you like to make little stupid generalizations about terminology like "socialist healthcare" but one you nothing about. Which like usual is your normal MO.
Like other topics your mouth talks about things your mind knows nothing about. Stick to singing your folk songs in Hibernian halls and bars leave topics like health care for adults. I would assume my family serving in two wars here and immigrated over 100 years ago from Mexico should define them as Americans... I bet My south korean family has done more Serving American causes than you ever have.
You know whats funny about your stances is you are one of the idiots that democratic reform would help massively and these "freedoms and tax cuts" that your level of income would never reach to be taxed in the first place. I am sure with all of your shows my guess is you pay very little taxes anyways....
Seriously Steve at least Cal trys to post information from some source to back up his positions you just make little quips and generalizations mixed with some sarcasm... pretty much useless as any sort of contributor. Just one of those idiots who show up shouting at these town halls that does not know anything but knows to yell and make useless noise.
Let me guess "faux" outrage? really.... most likely a guy like you never served or have lived outside the country to really know anything except in your own little microcosm.
"my" own countryman..... left "socialized" medicine you must mean South Korean health care I assume.... Like you normally do you make generalizations about which your ignorance is glaring......
Read Slowly:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1447690
I am sure with all of your shows my guess is you pay very little taxes anyways....
I'm sure you know less about that even than most shit you pretend to be an expert in.
I claim it all dickhead and pay self employment and SS and my own health care.
Seriously Steve at least Cal trys to post information from some source to back up his positions you just make little quips and generalizations mixed with some sarcasm... pretty much useless as any sort of contributor. Just one of those idiots who show up shouting at these town halls that does not know anything but knows to yell and make useless noise.
Kiss my ass Sev.
Seriously.
You whiners so often try to accuse everybody of racial slurs.
It's bullshit and you know it, but it's easier than reality.
I've NEVER spoken ONE ill word about your f*cking heritage.
I pointed out (after your stupid statememt) that somebody just might want to come to a horrible place without universal health care like the nasty old USA.
So I looked it up before I made the comment.
Also in Mexico the government subsidizes a cheap plan.
So while I'd never and have never insulted anyone of Mexican or Korean background I will loudly say I think you're often a pompous disingenuous hypocritical quisling for the president but that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with ethnics.
And no I didn't join the army.
Neither did Obammy.
WSS
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im sure you "claim" everything.... like the rest of the bar entertainment industry.... Try that bs on someone else..
That article funny I hope you actually read it BECAUSE EVERYTHING I STATED ABOUT SOUTH KOREAN MEDICINE WAS IN THERE ALSO... idiot posting information that only backs up everything i stated.
Thanks for verifying basically what I thought you were, uninformed and my Korean family actually supporting more U.S. causes than anything you ever did. Unless you call that music you produce for psychological warfare against enemy combatants.
I have an idea why dont you go to another town hall and start screaming about topics you dont understand or care to... At least with those people you have something in common with..... mindless, zombielike, uneducated devotion to ignorance......
I am sure your federal tax income contribution is equivelent to your education level..... which from your posts and obvious ignorance LOW to MEDIOCRE...
Its hard to pigeonhole anyone from random posts but I think in your case its pretty evident. Did you even read that article you posted? the stats or the terminology? like SUPPLY SIDE CONTROLS? or even the same exact stats I stated about private ownership? good god you are a dimwit.
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im sure you "claim" everything.... like the rest of the bar entertainment industry.... Try that bs on someone else..
That article funny I hope you actually read it BECAUSE EVERYTHING I STATED ABOUT SOUTH KOREAN MEDICINE WAS IN THERE ALSO... idiot posting information that only backs up everything i stated.
Thanks for verifying basically what I thought you were, uninformed and my Korean family actually supporting more U.S. causes than anything you ever did. Unless you call that music you produce for psychological warfare against enemy combatants.
I have an idea why dont you go to another town hall and start screaming about topics you dont understand or care to... At least with those people you have something in common with..... mindless, zombielike, uneducated devotion to ignorance......
I am sure your federal tax income contribution is equivelent to your education level..... which from your posts and obvious ignorance LOW to MEDIOCRE...
Its hard to pigeonhole anyone from random posts but I think in your case its pretty evident. Did you even read that article you posted? the stats or the terminology? like SUPPLY SIDE CONTROLS? or even the same exact stats I stated about private ownership? good god you are a dimwit.
Did you even read that article you posted? the stats or the terminology? like SUPPLY SIDE CONTROLS? or even the same exact stats I stated about private ownership? good god you are a dimwit.
"SOUTH KOREA ACHIEVED universal health insurance in 12 years. This remarkable achievement started modestly in 1977 when the government mandated medical insurance for employees and their dependents in large firms with more than 500 employees. In 1989, national health insurance (NHI) was extended to the whole nation."
So tell me how the Obama plan differs.
Or tell me anything the Omaba plan does.
Or anything the Obama plan doesn't do.
Or be honest and say you have no clue.
Or be more honest and say "Sorry Steve, I realize nobody insulted my ethnic background."
Or just STFU.
WSS
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Keep your attempted cultural derogatory comments to yourself.
Idiot.
PS that ain't cultural.
WSS
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Sev, at least you TRY to have legit opinions. but crossing the line into
offsetting the legitimacy of opposing views by going off the deep end about defending
your heritage is unecessary, since I didn't see that in Steve's posts at all.
Bringing up other systems in other countries, etc, does not mean someone is dissing
you family's members who served. That's a fallback defensive mechanism that does
no good to the board, or legit discussion.
As far as quips go, most of us have our quips going - Steve does, mz the pussy does, T does, I do, a lot of us do here and there...
but if your inference is, you want serious discussion instead of quips, then go with the idea
of serious discussion without the outrage that was not really provoked. Just a few thoughts.
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Lets see "Obamas" health care plan..... Considering what he is ASKING FOR IN GENERALITIES FROM THE CONGRESS first has yet to be fleshed out thats a bit difficult...
As a student of history that you are Steve I am sure you see where he cant and wont put specifics out like Clinton did and than watch Congress refuse his bully pulpit tactics.....
IF your reading comprehension from other posts finally comes into play you will see that I have stated there really is nothing cohesive DURING THE AUGUST recess as of yet and will be changed dramatically when they get back......
Cal Steve makes his comments and generalities on purpose to hide any sort of substance. Just like when he decided to post that story without reading it..... That plan in south Korea was massively controlled by the conservative pro business/insurance for profit industry kind of like what they are doing here right now... Any universal system without supply side controls has serious problems, the for profit model if left unchecked with cause instability and inequality of service.... You know kind of like it is here.
Korean culture is EXTREMELY pro business and conservative to its detriment and the health care system, i have been there and treated there and its very similar to here.... great health care IF you can afford it... horrible and inefficient if you do not.
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Its funny that the insurance industry is crying about "unfair" advantage a NON profit driven goverment administered system (medicare/medicaid lower admin costs than for profit insurance) and are afraid of losing market share.......
RIGHT there is the source of their problem they dont want to change the system and be forced to cover pre existing conditions breaking their ponzi scheme. They dont want to compete because they all have boards and ceo's and massive administration costs to justify for their existance.
Its really fairly simple they dont want the competition to put them out of business or force them into competitive non profit service like in parts of europe..... non profit and efficiency means the 100k/hour salary goes out the door and the multiple paper pushing admins and not being able to play with other peoples money on the market which again has nothing to do with healthcare payments from consumers to providers....
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Sev, at least you TRY to have legit opinions. but crossing the line into
offsetting the legitimacy of opposing views by going off the deep end about defending
your heritage is unecessary, since I didn't see that in Steve's posts at all.
Bringing up other systems in other countries, etc, does not mean someone is dissing
you family's members who served. That's a fallback defensive mechanism that does
no good to the board, or legit discussion.
As far as quips go, most of us have our quips going - Steve does, mz the pussy does, T does, I do, a lot of us do here and there...
but if your inference is, you want serious discussion instead of quips, then go with the idea
of serious discussion without the outrage that was not really provoked. Just a few thoughts.
Sev, at least you TRY to have legit opinions. but crossing the line into
offsetting the legitimacy of opposing views by going off the deep end about defending
your heritage is unecessary, since I didn't see that in Steve's posts at all.
He didn't either.
He just thinks accusing me of it will get him sympathy.
And if the UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE THE KOREAN GOVERNMENT FORCED ON THE PEOPLE sucks it's likely it will suck here too.
It cost too much.
Did you read the article I linked Cal?
WSS
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forced? We wanted it as a society. It sucks because FOR PROFIT RIGHT WING SPECIAL INTEREST SHAPED THE POLICY AND SYSTEM.
They own everything in the extreme pro business culture, you cant have 80% of all doctors as specialist and 90% of all health care assets owned by for profit health care that has NO supply side controls.... Health care systems are not simple as "universal health care sucks over there so my hypothesis is it is going to suck over here"
This is not a true universal system administered by the government... in fact the government is hands off and this is run by private for profit companies.... It is universal in the fact that coverage is mandatory either by company or by yourself with maybe 10% of the population subsidized if you cant afford it.
You just happen to use the exact for profit model that the right wing over here wants that is horrible in another industrialized nation. Good choice. Open mouth about things you dont understand or know anything about.
I could care less about sympathy from you or really anyone. YOU should have read the entire article you posted.... it only reinforces EVERYTHING i stated as the problems with the Korean system.........
That should be an example because of the tons of data on how it is absolutely necessary to have supply side controls and keep a check on for profit health care companies.
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