What are the chances Greedy turns out?
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Frank Minnifield was 5'9 180# and went undrafted in 1983 - a 12-round draft. He signed with the USFL's Chicago Blitz and had to win a court case to be able to sign with the Browns in 1984. 4 straight Pro Bowls and the NFL's all-decade 1980's team.
Marion Motley was undrafted in 1946. 2 pro bowls, led the NFL in rushing in 1950 during our title run, 1940's all-decade team. He wrote to Paul Brown and asked for a tryout. His roommate at that tryout was Bill Willis who was also undrafted and whose story you should know.
Lou Groza was also undrafted in 1946. He started at OT as well as K from 1948 until someone named Dick Schafrath came along in 1958. Dick Schafrath was voted to the PFRA Hall of Very Good in 2007.
Gene Hickerson was a 7th round OG in 1957 who is in Canton. 6 pro bowls, 1960's all-decade team. Hickerson was brought onstage during his HoF induction in his wheelchair, propelled by Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Leroy Kelly. It was announced as "one last time, Gene Hickerson leads Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Leroy Kelly."
Browns also drafted the long-time Packers C Frank Winters in the 10th round in 1987.
Well...the deal with Motley and Willis was that they were black.....and the NFL, being under the control of people like George Preston Marshall, an avowed segregationist, would not draft any black players.
Also...don't forget Ernest Byner, a 10th round draft pick and a man with great heart for the game.
Well...the deal with Motley and Willis was that they were black.....and the NFL, being under the control of people like George Preston Marshall, an avowed segregationist, would not draft any black players.
Also...don't forget Ernest Byner, a 10th round draft pick and a man with great heart for the game.
I mentioned Earnest Byner in the post before the one you replied to Gips; but I'm glad to see someone else remembering him.
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Frank Minnifield was 5'9 180# and went undrafted in 1983 - a 12-round draft. He signed with the USFL's Chicago Blitz and had to win a court case to be able to sign with the Browns in 1984. 4 straight Pro Bowls and the NFL's all-decade 1980's team.
Marion Motley was undrafted in 1946. 2 pro bowls, led the NFL in rushing in 1950 during our title run, 1940's all-decade team. He wrote to Paul Brown and asked for a tryout. His roommate at that tryout was Bill Willis who was also undrafted and whose story you should know.
Lou Groza was also undrafted in 1946. He started at OT as well as K from 1948 until someone named Dick Schafrath came along in 1958. Dick Schafrath was voted to the PFRA Hall of Very Good in 2007.
Gene Hickerson was a 7th round OG in 1957 who is in Canton. 6 pro bowls, 1960's all-decade team. Hickerson was brought onstage during his HoF induction in his wheelchair, propelled by Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Leroy Kelly. It was announced as "one last time, Gene Hickerson leads Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Leroy Kelly."
Browns also drafted the long-time Packers C Frank Winters in the 10th round in 1987.
Frank Minnifield was 5'9 180# and went undrafted in 1983 - a 12-round draft. He signed with the USFL's Chicago Blitz and had to win a court case to be able to sign with the Browns in 1984. 4 straight Pro Bowls and the NFL's all-decade 1980's team.
A much, much different game now.
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Frank Minnifield was 5'9 180# and went undrafted in 1983 - a 12-round draft. He signed with the USFL's Chicago Blitz and had to win a court case to be able to sign with the Browns in 1984. 4 straight Pro Bowls and the NFL's all-decade 1980's team.
Marion Motley was undrafted in 1946. 2 pro bowls, led the NFL in rushing in 1950 during our title run, 1940's all-decade team. He wrote to Paul Brown and asked for a tryout. His roommate at that tryout was Bill Willis who was also undrafted and whose story you should know.
Lou Groza was also undrafted in 1946. He started at OT as well as K from 1948 until someone named Dick Schafrath came along in 1958. Dick Schafrath was voted to the PFRA Hall of Very Good in 2007.
Gene Hickerson was a 7th round OG in 1957 who is in Canton. 6 pro bowls, 1960's all-decade team. Hickerson was brought onstage during his HoF induction in his wheelchair, propelled by Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Leroy Kelly. It was announced as "one last time, Gene Hickerson leads Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Leroy Kelly."
Browns also drafted the long-time Packers C Frank Winters in the 10th round in 1987.
Well...the deal with Motley and Willis was that they were black.....and the NFL, being under the control of people like George Preston Marshall, an avowed segregationist, would not draft any black players.
Also...don't forget Ernest Byner, a 10th round draft pick and a man with great heart for the game.
Well...the deal with Motley and Willis was that they were black.....and the NFL, being under the control of people like George Preston Marshall, an avowed segregationist, would not draft any black players.
Also...don't forget Ernest Byner, a 10th round draft pick and a man with great heart for the game.
Plus Lou Groza I believe was on Okinawa or Iwo Jima when he got a contract offer from Paul Brown, trying to not get his ass shot off.
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Frank Minnifield was 5'9 180# and went undrafted in 1983 - a 12-round draft. He signed with the USFL's Chicago Blitz and had to win a court case to be able to sign with the Browns in 1984. 4 straight Pro Bowls and the NFL's all-decade 1980's team.
A much, much different game now.
A much, much different game now.
It wasn't that different, like from the 1940's or something. I think Minn - and Daryl Greene - would still be excellent in today's game. They might even be better, since hitting is all but eliminated and their games were all about quickness and quick twitch reaction and coordination.
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Frank Minnifield was 5'9 180# and went undrafted in 1983 - a 12-round draft. He signed with the USFL's Chicago Blitz and had to win a court case to be able to sign with the Browns in 1984. 4 straight Pro Bowls and the NFL's all-decade 1980's team.
A much, much different game now.
A much, much different game now.
Oh yeah kids are on the radar in high school and going to camps before going to the NFL minor leagues..... college. The NFL draft is now a year long activity.
And the stakes are enormous no professional players have off-season jobs anymore.
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Oh yeah kids are on the radar in high school and going to camps before going to the NFL minor leagues..... college. The NFL draft is now a year long activity.
And the stakes are enormous no professional players have off-season jobs anymore.
Yep, times have changed. An old favorite of mine, Browns' safety Don Fleming, was electrocuted in the early 1960's working his off season construction job.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
ILB/MLB Mike Johnson was only 6'1" and 220 lbs when he played like a bad asss worthy of 2 Pro Bowl honors; and I also liked former Louisville LB Eddie Johnson that hit like a freight train. All these guys were very easy to appreciate as well as the many others I didn't even mention.
Great post Flug! and i got the best at the end...
If we have any Newbie Brownies fans? If ya never saw Johnson & Johnson play? find them on youtube ? 2 grown ass men and Eddie was a 7th round pick & Mike earned his way from the USFL....2 no-neck's with Heart & passion for the game..
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ILB/MLB Mike Johnson was only 6'1" and 220 lbs when he played like a bad asss worthy of 2 Pro Bowl honors; and I also liked former Louisville LB Eddie Johnson that hit like a freight train. All these guys were very easy to appreciate as well as the many others I didn't even mention.
Great post Flug! and i got the best at the end...
If we have any Newbie Brownies fans? If ya never saw Johnson & Johnson play? find them on youtube ? 2 grown ass men and Eddie was a 7th round pick & Mike earned his way from the USFL....2 no-neck's with Heart & passion for the game..
Great post Flug! and i got the best at the end...
If we have any Newbie Brownies fans? If ya never saw Johnson & Johnson play? find them on youtube ? 2 grown ass men and Eddie was a 7th round pick & Mike earned his way from the USFL....2 no-neck's with Heart & passion for the game..
Browns problem is that the really, really have not had quality Linebacker play since those two guys.
We have had just 2 LBs make the Pro Bowl since 1999: Joe Schobert in 2018, and Jamir Miller in 2002. And we lost both of them almost immediately: Schobert gone in Free agency; Jamir Miller lost to injury the next year.
Prior to 1999 back to 1960 here is the list of Browns Pro Bowl LBs:
1995 Pepper Johnson
1990 Mike Johnson
1989 Clay Matthews
1988 Clay
1987 Chip Banks
1986 Clay and Chip
1984 Chip
1983 Chip
1971 Jim Houston
1970 Houston
1966 Houston
1965 Houston
1959 to 1963 Jim Ray Smith
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Oh yeah kids are on the radar in high school and going to camps before going to the NFL minor leagues..... college. The NFL draft is now a year long activity.
And the stakes are enormous no professional players have off-season jobs anymore.
Yep, times have changed. An old favorite of mine, Browns' safety Don Fleming, was electrocuted in the early 1960's working his off season construction job.
Mike
Yep, times have changed. An old favorite of mine, Browns' safety Don Fleming, was electrocuted in the early 1960's working his off season construction job.
Mike
Yep. They all had jobs. Dante Lavelli had a furniture store, maybe in Rocky River or Lakewood. I think Rocky River.
They were all selling cars or beer, or driving cabs.
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A much, much different game now.
It wasn't that different, like from the 1940's or something. I think Minn - and Daryl Greene - would still be excellent in today's game. They might even be better, since hitting is all but eliminated and their games were all about quickness and quick twitch reaction and coordination.
It wasn't that different, like from the 1940's or something. I think Minn - and Daryl Greene - would still be excellent in today's game. They might even be better, since hitting is all but eliminated and their games were all about quickness and quick twitch reaction and coordination.
I liked Minnifield a lot! That said, he got away with a lot of touchy-feeley downfield until anytime we played the Denver Broncos. Today's game feels like there's a lot more BIG WRs that can all jet. Not there weren't a few big WRs like Harold Carmichael and Dave Logan back in the day. Big speedster Calvin Johnson wasn't drafted until AFTER Minnifield retired. And now it feels like there's a lot of WRs over 6'3" today.
One of my favorite Corners at Ohio State was the 5'9" Antoine Winfield (mostly because of what a great open field tackler he was on top of being a very talented in zone or coverage). I don't know how old some of you guys are; but 1 guy he could NOT matchup with BECAUSE of the size was Michigan State's Plexico Burress. Ohio State blew a huge first half lead (28-6) because they couldn't find a way to help Winfield in the matchup. 5'9" vrs 6'6" despite the shorter guy being faster and more agile. Now you add the wing span/catch radius to Burress' height advantage; and it didn't even matter if Winfield was a 2 time All American talent. If memory serves me right, Burress was never really a speedster even before he shot himself in the leg. Having said that, he still beat NE for a game winning TD reception in the SB after the incident unless my time machine had too much beer in it. Now imagine being a 5'9" corner when a 6'4" Randy Moss showed up to the NFL with blazing speed, gigantic catch radius and an ideal vertical leap. And guess where Minnesota used to like to line Randy up when Cris Carter lined up as a WR on 1 side and the 6'3" Jake Reed on the other? In the slot, where teams often put their smaller corners at the time. There was nothing fair about that, which was why Minnesota exploited the Hell out of it....
Today, you have guys that range anywhere from 6'3"-6'6" like AJ Green, Mike Evans, D.K. Metcalf, Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Allen Robinson II, Michael Thomas, Alshon Jeffery, Courtland Sutton, Tyrell Williams, Kenny Gollady, DJ Chark Jr, Chris Conley, Devin Funchess, DeVante Parker, Robby Anderson - just to name a hand full...
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Great post Flug! and i got the best at the end...
If we have any Newbie Brownies fans? If ya never saw Johnson & Johnson play? find them on youtube ? 2 grown ass men and Eddie was a 7th round pick & Mike earned his way from the USFL....2 no-neck's with Heart & passion for the game..
Browns problem is that the really, really have not had quality Linebacker play since those two guys.
We have had just 2 LBs make the Pro Bowl since 1999: Joe Schobert in 2018, and Jamir Miller in 2002. And we lost both of them almost immediately: Schobert gone in Free agency; Jamir Miller lost to injury the next year.
Prior to 1999 back to 1960 here is the list of Browns Pro Bowl LBs:
1995 Pepper Johnson
1990 Mike Johnson
1989 Clay Matthews
1988 Clay
1987 Chip Banks
1986 Clay and Chip
1984 Chip
1983 Chip
1971 Jim Houston
1970 Houston
1966 Houston
1965 Houston
1959 to 1963 Jim Ray Smith
Browns problem is that the really, really have not had quality Linebacker play since those two guys.
We have had just 2 LBs make the Pro Bowl since 1999: Joe Schobert in 2018, and Jamir Miller in 2002. And we lost both of them almost immediately: Schobert gone in Free agency; Jamir Miller lost to injury the next year.
Prior to 1999 back to 1960 here is the list of Browns Pro Bowl LBs:
1995 Pepper Johnson
1990 Mike Johnson
1989 Clay Matthews
1988 Clay
1987 Chip Banks
1986 Clay and Chip
1984 Chip
1983 Chip
1971 Jim Houston
1970 Houston
1966 Houston
1965 Houston
1959 to 1963 Jim Ray Smith
Thanks for the list Gips. 1 update to it. Mike Johnson made the Pro Bowl in 89 and 90. He was also an All Pro in 89.
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Browns problem is that the really, really have not had quality Linebacker play since those two guys.
We have had just 2 LBs make the Pro Bowl since 1999: Joe Schobert in 2018, and Jamir Miller in 2002. And we lost both of them almost immediately: Schobert gone in Free agency; Jamir Miller lost to injury the next year.
Prior to 1999 back to 1960 here is the list of Browns Pro Bowl LBs:
1995 Pepper Johnson
1990 Mike Johnson
1989 Clay Matthews
1988 Clay
1987 Chip Banks
1986 Clay and Chip
1984 Chip
1983 Chip
1971 Jim Houston
1970 Houston
1966 Houston
1965 Houston
1959 to 1963 Jim Ray Smith
Thanks for the list Gips. 1 update to it. Mike Johnson made the Pro Bowl in 89 and 90. He was also an All Pro in 89.
Thanks for the list Gips. 1 update to it. Mike Johnson made the Pro Bowl in 89 and 90. He was also an All Pro in 89.
I must have missed that one....or my source did. I just checked Wikipedia.
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I must have missed that one....or my source did. I just checked Wikipedia.
This is a cut and paste right out of Wikipedia
Mike Johnson No. 59 Position: Linebacker Personal information Born: November 26, 1962 (age 57)
Southport, North CarolinaCareer information High school: DeMatha Catholic
(Hyattsville, Maryland)College: Virginia Tech Career history Career highlights and awards -
It wasn't that different, like from the 1940's or something. I think Minn - and Daryl Greene - would still be excellent in today's game. They might even be better, since hitting is all but eliminated and their games were all about quickness and quick twitch reaction and coordination.
I liked Minnifield a lot! That said, he got away with a lot of touchy-feeley downfield until anytime we played the Denver Broncos. Today's game feels like there's a lot more BIG WRs that can all jet. Not there weren't a few big WRs like Harold Carmichael and Dave Logan back in the day. Big speedster Calvin Johnson wasn't drafted until AFTER Minnifield retired. And now it feels like there's a lot of WRs over 6'3" today.
One of my favorite Corners at Ohio State was the 5'9" Antoine Winfield (mostly because of what a great open field tackler he was on top of being a very talented in zone or coverage). I don't know how old some of you guys are; but 1 guy he could NOT matchup with BECAUSE of the size was Michigan State's Plexico Burress. Ohio State blew a huge first half lead (28-6) because they couldn't find a way to help Winfield in the matchup. 5'9" vrs 6'6" despite the shorter guy being faster and more agile. Now you add the wing span/catch radius to Burress' height advantage; and it didn't even matter if Winfield was a 2 time All American talent. If memory serves me right, Burress was never really a speedster even before he shot himself in the leg. Having said that, he still beat NE for a game winning TD reception in the SB after the incident unless my time machine had too much beer in it. Now imagine being a 5'9" corner when a 6'4" Randy Moss showed up to the NFL with blazing speed, gigantic catch radius and an ideal vertical leap. And guess where Minnesota used to like to line Randy up when Cris Carter lined up as a WR on 1 side and the 6'3" Jake Reed on the other? In the slot, where teams often put their smaller corners at the time. There was nothing fair about that, which was why Minnesota exploited the Hell out of it....
Today, you have guys that range anywhere from 6'3"-6'6" like AJ Green, Mike Evans, D.K. Metcalf, Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Allen Robinson II, Michael Thomas, Alshon Jeffery, Courtland Sutton, Tyrell Williams, Kenny Gollady, DJ Chark Jr, Chris Conley, Devin Funchess, DeVante Parker, Robby Anderson - just to name a hand full...
Today, you have guys that range anywhere from 6'3"-6'6" like AJ Green, Mike Evans, D.K. Metcalf, Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Allen Robinson II, Michael Thomas, Alshon Jeffery, Courtland Sutton, Tyrell Williams, Kenny Gollady, DJ Chark Jr, Chris Conley, Devin Funchess, DeVante Parker, Robby Anderson - just to name a hand full...
That being said, the best WR in recent years was 5-10 Antonio Brown (before he went insane). He smoked all those fools.
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Today, you have guys that range anywhere from 6'3"-6'6" like AJ Green, Mike Evans, D.K. Metcalf, Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Allen Robinson II, Michael Thomas, Alshon Jeffery, Courtland Sutton, Tyrell Williams, Kenny Gollady, DJ Chark Jr, Chris Conley, Devin Funchess, DeVante Parker, Robby Anderson - just to name a hand full...
That being said, the best WR in recent years was 5-10 Antonio Brown (before he went insane). He smoked all those fools.
That being said, the best WR in recent years was 5-10 Antonio Brown (before he went insane).
1 exception to the rule doesn't mean teams are wrong for wanting corners bigger than 5'9" tall today. Will there be an exception to the rule? Isn't there always? However, secondaries have to defend a lot of size with speed and catch radius on the perimeter today. For example, Pittsburgh just drafted a big, fast WR out of Notre Dame (Chase Claypool) built like a TE at 6'4" for the reasons I spoke of. I say that to say this, Pittsburgh drafted Claypool in the 2nd round while they didn't draft Antonio Brown until round 6.
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That being said, the best WR in recent years was 5-10 Antonio Brown (before he went insane).
1 exception to the rule doesn't mean teams are wrong for wanting corners bigger than 5'9" tall today. Will there be an exception to the rule? Isn't there always? However, secondaries have to defend a lot of size with speed and catch radius on the perimeter today. For example, Pittsburgh just drafted a big, fast WR out of Notre Dame (Chase Claypool) built like a TE at 6'4" for the reasons I spoke of. I say that to say this, Pittsburgh drafted Claypool in the 2nd round while they didn't draft Antonio Brown until round 6.
1 exception to the rule doesn't mean teams are wrong for wanting corners bigger than 5'9" tall today. Will there be an exception to the rule? Isn't there always? However, secondaries have to defend a lot of size with speed and catch radius on the perimeter today. For example, Pittsburgh just drafted a big, fast WR out of Notre Dame (Chase Claypool) built like a TE at 6'4" for the reasons I spoke of. I say that to say this, Pittsburgh drafted Claypool in the 2nd round while they didn't draft Antonio Brown until round 6.
Claypool is not only 6-4, 240, but he runs a 4.42 forty. That's a scary combination. Think a bigger, faster Shannon Sharpe.
My point with AB is that you STILL don't need to be tall to be really good.
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1 exception to the rule doesn't mean teams are wrong for wanting corners bigger than 5'9" tall today. Will there be an exception to the rule? Isn't there always? However, secondaries have to defend a lot of size with speed and catch radius on the perimeter today. For example, Pittsburgh just drafted a big, fast WR out of Notre Dame (Chase Claypool) built like a TE at 6'4" for the reasons I spoke of. I say that to say this, Pittsburgh drafted Claypool in the 2nd round while they didn't draft Antonio Brown until round 6.
Claypool is not only 6-4, 240, but he runs a 4.42 forty. That's a scary combination. Think a bigger, faster Shannon Sharpe.
My point with AB is that you STILL don't need to be tall to be really good.
Claypool is not only 6-4, 240, but he runs a 4.42 forty. That's a scary combination. Think a bigger, faster Shannon Sharpe.
My point with AB is that you STILL don't need to be tall to be really good.
Isn't that about the same as Peeps? (looking at this...not quite....but not that far off. Claypool seems more Tight End.
Donovan Peoples-Jones NFL Combine Stats
Wide Receiver | Michigan | Big Ten Conference | Division I-FBS
Player Info
First Name: Donovan Last Name: Peoples-Jones Nickname: Position: Wide Receiver College: Michigan Draft Class: 2020 Draft Age: N/A Measurables
Height: 74 inches Weight: 208 pounds BMI: 27.35 Arm Length: 33.50 inches Hand Size: 10.13 inches Wingspan: 79.250 inches Birthdate: (N/A) NFL Combine Scores
40 Yard Dash: 4.48 seconds 40 Yard (MPH): 18.26 (MPH) 20 Yard Split: 2.63 seconds 10 Yard Split: 1.59 seconds Bench Press: (N/A) reps (225 lb) Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50) QB Ball Velocity: (N/A) (MPH) Vertical Leap: 44.5 inches Broad Jump: (N/A) inches 20 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds Three Cone: (N/A) seconds Shuttle Split: (N/A) seconds 60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds Four Square: (N/A) seconds -
Chase Claypool NFL Combine Stats
Wide Receiver | Notre Dame | Atlantic Coast Conference | Division I-FBS
Player Info
First Name: Chase Last Name: Claypool Nickname: Position: Wide Receiver College: Notre Dame Draft Class: 2020 Draft Age: N/A Measurables
Height: 76 inches Weight: 229 pounds BMI: 28.55 Arm Length: 32.50 inches Hand Size: 9.88 inches Wingspan: 80.000 inches Birthdate: (N/A) NFL Combine Scores
40 Yard Dash: 4.42 seconds 40 Yard (MPH): 18.51 (MPH) 20 Yard Split: 2.57 seconds 10 Yard Split: 1.56 seconds Bench Press: 19 reps (225 lb) Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50) QB Ball Velocity: (N/A) (MPH) Vertical Leap: 40.5 inches Broad Jump: 126 inches 20 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds Three Cone: (N/A) seconds Shuttle Split: (N/A) seconds 60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds Four Square: (N/A) seconds -
Claypool is taller.......but speed is about the same.......also...his arms are shorter than Peeps, his hands are smaller, he can't jump as high...4 inches difference.....does that make up for the two inches that Claypool is taller? Claypool 21 pounds heavier per this.
The .06 difference in speed is neglible. (unless you are running the Olympics). Wingspan the same really.
But, then Claypool was drafted #49, and Sunshine Superman taken #187. ....138 spots behind .
Maybe a better comparison would be between Claypool and Njoku?
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Perhaps the thing to do here concerning Greedy Williams is to see who he likely would be matching up against mostly as the projected #2 CB on this team. #2 receivers for Browns opponents
Steelers: James Washington
Ravens: Myles Boykin
Bengals: Tee Higgins
Washington Football Team: Terry McLaurin or Kelvin Harmon
Cowboys: Michael Gallup
Colts: Michael Pittman Jr
Raiders: Henry Suggs or Tyrell Williams
Texans: Will Fuller
Eagles: DeSean Jackson
Jags: DJ Chark
Titans: AJ Brown or Adam Humpries.
So....where would Greedy excel and where do you think he would be overmatched?
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