Jets Trade Jamal Adams
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I hear ya. You KNOW the guy is good. But you also know that the guy doesn't want to be where he is. Will he want to be with us...for long? He's gonna demand big bucks. With two #1 picks you get two guys who are cap friendly for 4 or 5 years. If you're lousy at drafting, then sure, trade away all of your picks...which is what we should've done for years.
I guess for me it just comes down to known vs potential. This isn't the first time one of these has come up and I have said something.
On paper those 2 1sts look like a lot. But you have to use them correctly, and even the best organizations hit less than half the time on 1sts.
Whether he will want to be in SEA, That I can't answer. If he signs an extension at some time then yes a whole lot of money, but that is one position you don't have to worry about. And a teams objective when drafting is to get a player like him.
Or to look at it with the Browns. What would your thoughts be on trading Myles to say SF for 2 1sts? Those would be 2 late 1sts more than likely.
I'm not even going into the science of drafting and how teams traditionally do better etc. Or the fact on how quickly an incoming player grade changes. Or how the expected salary cap is supposed to go up a lot, etc.
Now if your argument was that SEA COULD get Lamar Jackson and TJ Watt with that pick so it is an overpay, I can't argue with that. But they could also have gotten Paxton Lynch and Rueben Foster. And it looks as if the difference between a rookie contract vs. Eddie Jackson (highest paid safety) is between 8-10 million a year. I won't even double it with the 2 1sts since Adams will probably make that difference anyway.
So would you rather have Adams or an 8 mil FA (Perriman, Melvin Gordon, Suh, Linval Joseph, etc) and one of those draftees above.
See its only mentioned when in a good light with a rookie contract. But when its the other way around it is still there in a negative way.
I really am not saying that it was good or bad either way. I am saying that just looking at it in one way doesn't tell the whole story.
I really am not saying that it was good or bad either way. I am saying that just looking at it in one way doesn't tell the whole story.
Gunz, your a sharp football fan.. Look at this draft history & tell us Carroll or John Schneider really care about losing two first round picks in the 25-30th range.. https://pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm ? They will make hay, about the 4th they get back...
a) I see a 32 year old QB signed thru 2023.. b.) A 68 year old 100-59-1 head coach wanting to win now & 3) a new owner replacing Paul Allen....Saying "screw the picks" our window might be closing in the NFC & Adams surely fits their Defense...
Carroll has a history & staff of coaching kids up & it don't matter where they come from... And were still waiting Browns...
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
I STILL don't like it when young players in this league get rewarded for acting like a brat screaming in the store until mommy buys them the toy they want. If I could stop screaming in the stores when I was 22 years old - 1st round draft picks with gigantic signing bonuses can stop that type of nonsense too. What can I say? I liked Miracle Bubbles... Let's not make it sound like Adams was sentenced to 10 more years in NY after completing the 1st 3 years of his 1st contract.
It wasn't like we gave Eric Turner a dream team his rookie year. He kept his mouth shut and played ball. His patience was eventually rewarded when we put more of a defense in front of and beside him. In fact, Bill Belichick assigned him to Pro Bowl TE Ben Coates in the playoffs; and he responded by shutting their top weapon out. Consequently, Cleveland knocked NE out of the playoffs in the 1st round. My guess is Turner enjoyed and appreciated the growth of himself and his teammates to the extent he appreciated the team that invested in him. Eventually, Turner got to return to his home state to play for the Raiders in CA. But, not before he eye candied us with some killer good Safety play.
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I don't see how a safety could possible be worth that much. Maybe a 1st and 3rd.
I have liked Adams since his play at LSU but two 1st rounders and a 3rd would have greater impact on your team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
It's also important to note precisely what SEA just bought. Where did Adams set up in 2019
He's a difference-maker at the LB depth.. he is absolutely not Earl Thomas, he's nothing more than a Chancellor without coverage deficits. He is an in-the-box safety..
In sum, Adams is not tremendously better than the UDFA they sent to NYJ who everyone agrees was above average [arguably top-10] at the exact same position/defensive role.. and because the rest of the lineup will suffer without the first-round upgrades, I don't understand this.
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For those saying how big of an overpay this is, i.e. have to win a SB (Not even saying it is or isn't), context needs to be added.
It really just comes down to the valuing of draft picks over proven players.
Without that context, saying 2 1sts is a lot. But when those are extremely likely to be late picks it adds some perspective. But to add even more, here are the draft picks of playoff teams who didn't win SB recently (some are from non playoff teams through trades).
2019: Darnell Savage, Andre Dillard, Tutus Howard, Josh Jacobs, Marquise Brown, Montez Sweat, Jonathan Abram, Jerry Tillery, LJ Collier, DeAndre Baker, Kaleb McGary, NKeal Harry
2018: Billy Price, Rahsaan Evans, Isaiah Wynn, DJ Moore, Hayden Hurst, Calvin Ridley, Rashard Penny, Terrell Edmunds, Taven Bryan, Mike Hughes, Sony Michel, Lamar Jackson
2017: Jarrad Davis, Charles Harris, Evan Engram, Gareon Conley, Jabrill Peppers, Tank McKinley, Tredavious White, Taco Charlton, David Njoku, TJ Watt, Reubens Foster, Ryan Ramczyk
2016: Will Fuller, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, William Jackson, Artie Burns, Paxton Lynch, Kenny Clark, Josh Garnett, Robert Nkemdiche, Vernon Butler, Germain Ifedi
2015: Cedric Ogbuehi, Bud Dupree, Shane Ray, DJ Humphries, Shaq Thompson, Breshad Perriman, Byron Jones, Laken Tomlinson, Phillip Dorsett, Damarious Randall, Stephone Anthony, Malcolm Brown.
4 Pro Bowlers out of 60 players.
But put it in perspective. Would you trade Peppers and Njoku for Adams?
My point is that when you just evaluate it as 2 1st round picks without the perspective of when those would likely be or who you more than likely would get with those picks it isn't as simple as SB or total overpay.
For those saying how big of an overpay this is, i.e. have to win a SB (Not even saying it is or isn't), context needs to be added.
It really just comes down to the valuing of draft picks over proven players.
Without that context, saying 2 1sts is a lot. But when those are extremely likely to be late picks it adds some perspective. But to add even more, here are the draft picks of playoff teams who didn't win SB recently (some are from non playoff teams through trades).
2019: Darnell Savage, Andre Dillard, Tutus Howard, Josh Jacobs, Marquise Brown, Montez Sweat, Jonathan Abram, Jerry Tillery, LJ Collier, DeAndre Baker, Kaleb McGary, NKeal Harry
2018: Billy Price, Rahsaan Evans, Isaiah Wynn, DJ Moore, Hayden Hurst, Calvin Ridley, Rashard Penny, Terrell Edmunds, Taven Bryan, Mike Hughes, Sony Michel, Lamar Jackson
2017: Jarrad Davis, Charles Harris, Evan Engram, Gareon Conley, Jabrill Peppers, Tank McKinley, Tredavious White, Taco Charlton, David Njoku, TJ Watt, Reubens Foster, Ryan Ramczyk
2016: Will Fuller, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, William Jackson, Artie Burns, Paxton Lynch, Kenny Clark, Josh Garnett, Robert Nkemdiche, Vernon Butler, Germain Ifedi
2015: Cedric Ogbuehi, Bud Dupree, Shane Ray, DJ Humphries, Shaq Thompson, Breshad Perriman, Byron Jones, Laken Tomlinson, Phillip Dorsett, Damarious Randall, Stephone Anthony, Malcolm Brown.
4 Pro Bowlers out of 60 players.
But put it in perspective. Would you trade Peppers and Njoku for Adams?
My point is that when you just evaluate it as 2 1st round picks without the perspective of when those would likely be or who you more than likely would get with those picks it isn't as simple as SB or total overpay.
So they are hitching the wagon to Wilson and Adams. Adams next contract will cost them. Definitely could be worse.
If I were paying out top money it would go Franchise QB, Elite pass rusher, HOF Left tackle, Elite Corner
When your cap is tied up like it will be tied up you need draft picks to build depth and cheaper solid starters and maybe even some Pro Bowl guys if you do it really well. The front office will be operating on a very small margin for error.
The window is now next year and the year after.
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I don't see how a safety could possible be worth that much. Maybe a 1st and 3rd.
I have liked Adams since his play at LSU but two 1st rounders and a 3rd would have greater impact on your team.
I don't see how a safety could possible be worth that much. Maybe a 1st and 3rd.
I have liked Adams since his play at LSU but two 1st rounders and a 3rd would have greater impact on your team.
Peter King's take is Seattle rarely drafts up as high as it would take to get this kind of talent THEY want at Safety so they pulled the trigger on it even though some of us disagree with what we think he is worth.
Seattle is who they've been because of how well they have drafted after round 1 inclusive of Russell Wilson and all the studs they've put in their secondary (outside of drafting Earl Thomas at #14 overall). I'm not the first to mention that; but it makes for a very friendly salary cap when you get that many YAHTZEES after round 1. Even Pro Bowl LBer Bobby Wagner wasn't drafted until 47th overall in round 2. Another guy that frequented Pro Bowls in Seattle was Richard Sherman, who they didn't draft until round 5. Safety Kam Chancellor was also drafted in round 5.
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I don't see how a safety could possible be worth that much. Maybe a 1st and 3rd.
I have liked Adams since his play at LSU but two 1st rounders and a 3rd would have greater impact on your team.
Peter King's take is Seattle rarely drafts up as high as it would take to get this kind of talent THEY want at Safety so they pulled the trigger on it even though some of us disagree with what we think he is worth.
Seattle is who they've been because of how well they have drafted after round 1 inclusive of Russell Wilson and all the studs they've put in their secondary (outside of drafting Earl Thomas at #14 overall). I'm not the first to mention that; but it makes for a very friendly salary cap when you get that many YAHTZEES after round 1. Even Pro Bowl LBer Bobby Wagner wasn't drafted until 47th overall in round 2. Another guy that frequented Pro Bowls in Seattle was Richard Sherman, who they didn't draft until round 5. Safety Kam Chancellor was also drafted in round 5.
Peter King's take is Seattle rarely drafts up as high as it would take to get this kind of talent THEY want at Safety so they pulled the trigger on it even though some of us disagree with what we think he is worth.
Seattle is who they've been because of how well they have drafted after round 1 inclusive of Russell Wilson and all the studs they've put in their secondary (outside of drafting Earl Thomas at #14 overall). I'm not the first to mention that; but it makes for a very friendly salary cap when you get that many YAHTZEES after round 1. Even Pro Bowl LBer Bobby Wagner wasn't drafted until 47th overall in round 2. Another guy that frequented Pro Bowls in Seattle was Richard Sherman, who they didn't draft until round 5. Safety Kam Chancellor was also drafted in round 5.
All true - they scouted well and had good fortune but most of those guys are gone so can they do it again or even to a smaller degree?
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Is there an echo in here?!
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I really am not saying that it was good or bad either way. I am saying that just looking at it in one way doesn't tell the whole story.
Gunz, your a sharp football fan.. Look at this draft history & tell us Carroll or John Schneider really care about losing two first round picks in the 25-30th range.. https://pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm ? They will make hay, about the 4th they get back...
a) I see a 32 year old QB signed thru 2023.. b.) A 68 year old 100-59-1 head coach wanting to win now & 3) a new owner replacing Paul Allen....Saying "screw the picks" our window might be closing in the NFC & Adams surely fits their Defense...
Carroll has a history & staff of coaching kids up & it don't matter where they come from... And were still waiting Browns...
Gunz, your a sharp football fan.. Look at this draft history & tell us Carroll or John Schneider really care about losing two first round picks in the 25-30th range.. https://pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm ? They will make hay, about the 4th they get back...
a) I see a 32 year old QB signed thru 2023.. b.) A 68 year old 100-59-1 head coach wanting to win now & 3) a new owner replacing Paul Allen....Saying "screw the picks" our window might be closing in the NFC & Adams surely fits their Defense...
Carroll has a history & staff of coaching kids up & it don't matter where they come from... And were still waiting Browns...
Uh did you only read one line of what I wrote? My ENTIRE premise here is that just saying giving up 2 1sts doesn't mean a huge overpay or that it would be if they don't win a SB.
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I hear ya. You KNOW the guy is good. But you also know that the guy doesn't want to be where he is. Will he want to be with us...for long? He's gonna demand big bucks. With two #1 picks you get two guys who are cap friendly for 4 or 5 years. If you're lousy at drafting, then sure, trade away all of your picks...which is what we should've done for years.
I guess for me it just comes down to known vs potential. This isn't the first time one of these has come up and I have said something.
On paper those 2 1sts look like a lot. But you have to use them correctly, and even the best organizations hit less than half the time on 1sts.
Whether he will want to be in SEA, That I can't answer. If he signs an extension at some time then yes a whole lot of money, but that is one position you don't have to worry about. And a teams objective when drafting is to get a player like him.
Or to look at it with the Browns. What would your thoughts be on trading Myles to say SF for 2 1sts? Those would be 2 late 1sts more than likely.
I'm not even going into the science of drafting and how teams traditionally do better etc. Or the fact on how quickly an incoming player grade changes. Or how the expected salary cap is supposed to go up a lot, etc.
Now if your argument was that SEA COULD get Lamar Jackson and TJ Watt with that pick so it is an overpay, I can't argue with that. But they could also have gotten Paxton Lynch and Rueben Foster. And it looks as if the difference between a rookie contract vs. Eddie Jackson (highest paid safety) is between 8-10 million a year. I won't even double it with the 2 1sts since Adams will probably make that difference anyway.
So would you rather have Adams or an 8 mil FA (Perriman, Melvin Gordon, Suh, Linval Joseph, etc) and one of those draftees above.
See its only mentioned when in a good light with a rookie contract. But when its the other way around it is still there in a negative way.
I really am not saying that it was good or bad either way. I am saying that just looking at it in one way doesn't tell the whole story.
I guess for me...
It's almost like a 'third rail' topic. People feel strongly on either side of the fence. In good conscious, I can't argue against your points. (...and no, I wouldn't trade Myles) Perhaps it's from years of having such a pathetic roster...holes everywhere. Needing draft picks, because FA talent tended to want to avoid us. And then Dorsey came in and did just what you're stating, he brought Landry and others in kicking and screaming (he traded picks for them). I thought it was brilliant. And he followed it up with drafting Mayfield to Dot The 'I' on his attempt to demonstrate how you build a winner.
I'll help your cause some more. I love old sayings, because they don't get to BE old sayings without having some truth to them: 'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'
....school is still out on OBJ trade...
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Peter King's take is Seattle rarely drafts up as high as it would take to get this kind of talent THEY want at Safety so they pulled the trigger on it even though some of us disagree with what we think he is worth.
Seattle is who they've been because of how well they have drafted after round 1 inclusive of Russell Wilson and all the studs they've put in their secondary (outside of drafting Earl Thomas at #14 overall). I'm not the first to mention that; but it makes for a very friendly salary cap when you get that many YAHTZEES after round 1. Even Pro Bowl LBer Bobby Wagner wasn't drafted until 47th overall in round 2. Another guy that frequented Pro Bowls in Seattle was Richard Sherman, who they didn't draft until round 5. Safety Kam Chancellor was also drafted in round 5.
All true - they scouted well and had good fortune but most of those guys are gone so can they do it again or even to a smaller degree?
All true - they scouted well and had good fortune but most of those guys are gone so can they do it again or even to a smaller degree?
Probably; but as Russell Wilson gets older - the 1 area they're going to need to improve at drafting is OL. They've been very fortunate he has eluded injury behind very suspect protections without many superstars to throw to.
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The issue isn't as simple as overpay on one player or not.. The issue is that SEA is missing more than just one guy and needs picks to improve the talent level at multiple positions. Adams is a good player for sure, but through ridiculous GMsmanship they have less than replacement-level at all but one spot [Duane Brown] on both the DL and OL right now. [Fun fact: Seattle's 10th highest paid player against the 2020 cap is a kicker. Stay classy, Seattle.]
The delta is NOT just adams vs mcdougald. Looking at just one spot ignores the upgrades at the other positions that would/could be achieved with those picks.
At present they upgraded one spot BUT could have upgraded 3. Even average OL and DL at this point would be actual improvements for Seattle.
Worth pointing out, that the primary corps of the LOB was a 1st round safety, a 5th round safety, a 5th found corner and a 6th round corner.
They have a recent history of taking DB's mid to late round and molding them into success.
Worth pointing out, that the primary corps of the LOB was a 1st round safety, a 5th round safety, a 5th found corner and a 6th round corner.
They have a recent history of taking DB's mid to late round and molding them into success.
Since I heard these news, this was the thing I was thinking about. Whether they like it or not, now they're set to believe they'll draft well in defense once again.
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