Pitt - Browns RBs
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Also, based on one stat from above, I think that we can conclude that the Steelers have generally been a bigger "running team" than the Browns...by virtue of this:
Since 1950 when the Browns entered the NFL The Browns in that history have only had 6 RBs with 800 or more carries. The Steelers have had 13 RBs with 800 or more....more than double. That surprised me.
Steelers have had 4 RBs make HOF, including Dudley who was pre 1950. (Franco/Bettis/JHJ). Though, for some reason, Dudley is listed as a Kicker above (maybe he kicked also), but he is not in HOF as a kicker, but as a runner. The Browns have also had 4 including Motley who was part pre-1950, part post 1950. Motley, Brown, Kelley, Mitchell, who was half runner, half receiver.
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A little shocking to me is Franco had 1 less fumble than his career TD's...than all i can add is.... f'k Merril Hoge.. id rather hear nothing when it comes to his football analysis...click-her!
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A little shocking to me is Franco had 1 less fumble than his career TD's...than all i can add is.... f'k Merril Hoge.. id rather hear nothing when it comes to his football analysis...click-her!
A little shocking to me is Franco had 1 less fumble than his career TD's...than all i can add is.... f'k Merril Hoge.. id rather hear nothing when it comes to his football analysis...click-her!
That is interesting. Note that other Steelers were just as bad: John Henry Johnson had the same 1:1 ratio: 26 TDs, 26 fumbles. Frank Pollard 20TDs/30 fumbles. Hoak 25/31. Rocky Bleier 23/32. Here are the same ratios for some Browns:
Jim Brown 106/57
Kelley 74/35
Motley 31/9
M. Pruitt 47/37
Mack 46/30
Chubb 16/3
but here is the one that hurts: Greg Pruitt....25 TDs/59 fumbles. Ouch! He, of course was a different kind of runner/receiver, more daring I would say. Plus, he may have gotten a fair share of those in the return game.
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Or, if you just want to compare the present/near future.
Any day of the week you would take Chubb/Hunt over Conner/Snell.
But I think the Squibs may have drafted a pretty good back out of Maryland....we shall see.
Or, if you just want to compare the present/near future.
Any day of the week you would take Chubb/Hunt over Conner/Snell.
But I think the Squibs may have drafted a pretty good back out of Maryland....we shall see.
Their OL is becoming weak. And I'd also take Chubb/Hunt over Conner/Snell any day. McFarland is the wildcard. He gouged OSU.
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What comes to mind?
Pitt 1990 - Foster, Worley, Hoge
Clev - 1990 - Metcalf, Mack.
Pitt 1993 - Foster, Hoge.
Cleve - Metcalf, Vardell, Hoard
Pitt 1995 - Pegram, JL Williams, Bam Morris.
Cle - Hoard, Lorenzo White
Pitt 1999 - Bettis, Zereoue
Clev - Terry Kirby, Abdul Jabbar
Pitt 2003 - Bettis, Zereoue
Cle - Willie Greene, James Jackson.
Pitt 2006 - Willie Parker, Davenport
Cle - Droughns, Terrell Smith
Pitt 2009 - Mendenall, Mewelde Moore
Cle - Jamal Lewis, Harison
Pitt 2012 - Dwyre, Redman
Clev - Trent Richardson
Pitt 2015 - Bell, Williams
Cle - Crowell, Duke Johnson
Pitt 2019 - Conner, Snell
Clev - Chubb, Hunt
What comes to mind?
First thing that came to mind was who had the better backfield, so I went with that.
These are only eye test opinions. I'll let someone with a lot of time on their hands to look up stats.
Pitt 1990 - Foster, Worley, Hoge
Clev - 1990 - Metcalf, Mack.
US
Pitt 1993 - Foster, Hoge.
Cleve - Metcalf, Vardell, Hoard
A WASH
Pitt 1995 - Pegram, JL Williams, Bam Morris.
Cle - Hoard, Lorenzo White
A WASH
Pitt 1999 - Bettis, Zereoue
Clev - Terry Kirby, Abdul Jabbar
Them
Pitt 2003 - Bettis, Zereoue
Cle - Willie Greene, James Jackson.
Them
Pitt 2006 - Willie Parker, Davenport
Cle - Droughns, Terrell Smith
Them by a hair
Pitt 2009 - Mendenall, Mewelde Moore
Cle - Jamal Lewis, Harison
US
Pitt 2012 - Dwyre, Redman
Clev - Trent Richardson
A WASH
Pitt 2015 - Bell, Williams
Cle - Crowell, Duke Johnson
THEM
Pitt 2019 - Conner, Snell
Clev - Chubb, Hunt
US
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What comes to mind?
First thing that came to mind was who had the better backfield, so I went with that.
These are only eye test opinions. I'll let someone with a lot of time on their hands to look up stats.
Pitt 1990 - Foster, Worley, Hoge
Clev - 1990 - Metcalf, Mack.
US
Pitt 1993 - Foster, Hoge.
Cleve - Metcalf, Vardell, Hoard
A WASH
Pitt 1995 - Pegram, JL Williams, Bam Morris.
Cle - Hoard, Lorenzo White
A WASH
Pitt 1999 - Bettis, Zereoue
Clev - Terry Kirby, Abdul Jabbar
Them
Pitt 2003 - Bettis, Zereoue
Cle - Willie Greene, James Jackson.
Them
Pitt 2006 - Willie Parker, Davenport
Cle - Droughns, Terrell Smith
Them by a hair
Pitt 2009 - Mendenall, Mewelde Moore
Cle - Jamal Lewis, Harison
US
Pitt 2012 - Dwyre, Redman
Clev - Trent Richardson
A WASH
Pitt 2015 - Bell, Williams
Cle - Crowell, Duke Johnson
THEM
Pitt 2019 - Conner, Snell
Clev - Chubb, Hunt
US
Mostly agree, but I think you may be underestimating Foster a little. Remember when he gouged the Browns for like 300 yards in a playoff game? He was a top 3 RB at the time. The only way Pitt comes even close to the Browns' RB talent this year is if that rookie from MD, McFarland, goes off like he did when he shredded OSU to pieces.
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Mostly agree, but I think you may be underestimating Foster a little. Remember when he gouged the Browns for like 300 yards in a playoff game? He was a top 3 RB at the time. The only way Pitt comes even close to the Browns' RB talent this year is if that rookie from MD, McFarland, goes off like he did when he shredded OSU to pieces.
Mostly agree, but I think you may be underestimating Foster a little. Remember when he gouged the Browns for like 300 yards in a playoff game? He was a top 3 RB at the time. The only way Pitt comes even close to the Browns' RB talent this year is if that rookie from MD, McFarland, goes off like he did when he shredded OSU to pieces.
Yeah I remember Foster now being a stud RB. I think he also retired early, was in his prime if I'm not mistaken.
I think we still have the better backfield even if McFly does well.
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A little shocking to me is Franco had 1 less fumble than his career TD's...than all i can add is.... f'k Merril Hoge.. id rather hear nothing when it comes to his football analysis...click-her!
That is interesting. Note that other Steelers were just as bad: John Henry Johnson had the same 1:1 ratio: 26 TDs, 26 fumbles. Frank Pollard 20TDs/30 fumbles. Hoak 25/31. Rocky Bleier 23/32. Here are the same ratios for some Browns:
Jim Brown 106/57
Kelley 74/35
Motley 31/9
M. Pruitt 47/37
Mack 46/30
Chubb 16/3
but here is the one that hurts: Greg Pruitt....25 TDs/59 fumbles. Ouch! He, of course was a different kind of runner/receiver, more daring I would say. Plus, he may have gotten a fair share of those in the return game.
That is interesting. Note that other Steelers were just as bad: John Henry Johnson had the same 1:1 ratio: 26 TDs, 26 fumbles. Frank Pollard 20TDs/30 fumbles. Hoak 25/31. Rocky Bleier 23/32. Here are the same ratios for some Browns:
Jim Brown 106/57
Kelley 74/35
Motley 31/9
M. Pruitt 47/37
Mack 46/30
Chubb 16/3
but here is the one that hurts: Greg Pruitt....25 TDs/59 fumbles. Ouch! He, of course was a different kind of runner/receiver, more daring I would say. Plus, he may have gotten a fair share of those in the return game.
Good stuff Gips! Greg Pruitt was still one of my faves to watch running the ball for us. The only guy since him to average better than 4.7 yards per carry is Nick Chubb. Like Pruitt, Chubb can score from anywhere on the field and get a lot of yards after contact. Unlike Pruitt, Chubb doesn't fumble during yards after contact time. Having said that, Pruitt was a better receiver out of the backfield.
I like our RB tradition. IMO, this team is built to run the ball down the esophagus - which will open doors for the play-action pass game. I think both of our new starting tackles are better run blockers than the last 2 we had; where Chubb still averaged over 5 yards per carry. When he gets a breather, the opponent gets Kareem'd while they're still sucking gas. Not a bad 1-2 punch...
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That is interesting. Note that other Steelers were just as bad: John Henry Johnson had the same 1:1 ratio: 26 TDs, 26 fumbles. Frank Pollard 20TDs/30 fumbles. Hoak 25/31. Rocky Bleier 23/32. Here are the same ratios for some Browns:
Jim Brown 106/57
Kelley 74/35
Motley 31/9
M. Pruitt 47/37
Mack 46/30
Chubb 16/3
but here is the one that hurts: Greg Pruitt....25 TDs/59 fumbles. Ouch! He, of course was a different kind of runner/receiver, more daring I would say. Plus, he may have gotten a fair share of those in the return game.
Good stuff Gips! Greg Pruitt was still one of my faves to watch running the ball for us. The only guy since him to average better than 4.7 yards per carry is Nick Chubb. Like Pruitt, Chubb can score from anywhere on the field and get a lot of yards after contact. Unlike Pruitt, Chubb doesn't fumble during yards after contact time. Having said that, Pruitt was a better receiver out of the backfield.
I like our RB tradition. IMO, this team is built to run the ball down the esophagus - which will open doors for the play-action pass game. I think both of our new starting tackles are better run blockers than the last 2 we had; where Chubb still averaged over 5 yards per carry. When he gets a breather, the opponent gets Kareem'd while they're still sucking gas. Not a bad 1-2 punch...
Good stuff Gips! Greg Pruitt was still one of my faves to watch running the ball for us. The only guy since him to average better than 4.7 yards per carry is Nick Chubb. Like Pruitt, Chubb can score from anywhere on the field and get a lot of yards after contact. Unlike Pruitt, Chubb doesn't fumble during yards after contact time. Having said that, Pruitt was a better receiver out of the backfield.
I like our RB tradition. IMO, this team is built to run the ball down the esophagus - which will open doors for the play-action pass game. I think both of our new starting tackles are better run blockers than the last 2 we had; where Chubb still averaged over 5 yards per carry. When he gets a breather, the opponent gets Kareem'd while they're still sucking gas. Not a bad 1-2 punch...
On RB tradition. Browns are very good, but so are other teams. Besides Browns and Steelers here are other teams that had at least 3 HOF RBs/HBs/FBs play for them at some point. Note, Bold means that the team was a "Primary" team that that player played for. Unbold means that the player only had a cup of coffee for that team:
Cardinals: Charlie Trippi, Ernie Nevers, Ollie Matson, Edgerrin James, Emmit Smith, Jim Thorpe
Bears: Bronco Nagurski, Red Grange, George McAffee, Gale Sayers
Broncos: Floyd Little, Terrell Davis, Tony Dorsett
Lions: Barry Sanders, Bill Dudley, Doak Walker, John Henry Johnson, Ollie Matson, Hugh McElhenny
Packers: Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Tony Canadeo, Johnny Blood McNally
Colts: Edgerrin James, Eric Dickerson, Lenny Moore, Marshall Faulk
Rams: Elroy Hirsch, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, Ollie Matson, Jerome Bettis
Giants: Alphonse Leemans, Frank Gifford, Hugh McElhenny, Jim Thorpe, Larry Csonka (Saquon Barkley could end up being this team's best)
49ers: Hugh McElhenny, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson, OJ Simpson
Jets: Curtis Martin, LaDanian Tomlinson, John Riggins
Washington Team: Bill Dudley, Bobby Mitchell, Cliff Battles, John Riggins
(It seems that Bill Dudley, Hugh McElhenny and John Henry Johnson played for like half the teams in the league)
Browns, Steelers ,the team formerly known as the Redskins, Rams, Colts, Packers, Bears, are the only teams with 4 "Primary" HOF RBs.
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And how about this question: What RBs are future HOF candidates? Ones that have retired, or are really along in their careers to be considered?
Right now I just see: Adrian Peterson, and Frank Gore. LeSean McCoy? I think just outside the bubble. Marshawn Lynch? Bugged out early...not even sure if he is going to be playing....also just outside the bubble.
Leveon Bell? He has a TON of work to do. In 7 years he has only gained 6125 yards. Sitting out didn't help. Yes, he is a good receiver, but, I don't know....I think to even be considered he has to be over 10,000 rush yards. McCoy and Lynch at least have gotten there.
Way too early on young guns like Barkley and Chubb and the Tits guy.....but someday, one day perhaps.
Eddie George. Also outside the bubble. But at least over 10K.
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Good stuff Gips! Greg Pruitt was still one of my faves to watch running the ball for us. The only guy since him to average better than 4.7 yards per carry is Nick Chubb. Like Pruitt, Chubb can score from anywhere on the field and get a lot of yards after contact. Unlike Pruitt, Chubb doesn't fumble during yards after contact time. Having said that, Pruitt was a better receiver out of the backfield.
I like our RB tradition. IMO, this team is built to run the ball down the esophagus - which will open doors for the play-action pass game. I think both of our new starting tackles are better run blockers than the last 2 we had; where Chubb still averaged over 5 yards per carry. When he gets a breather, the opponent gets Kareem'd while they're still sucking gas. Not a bad 1-2 punch...
On RB tradition. Browns are very good, but so are other teams. Besides Browns and Steelers here are other teams that had at least 3 HOF RBs/HBs/FBs play for them at some point. Note, Bold means that the team was a "Primary" team that that player played for. Unbold means that the player only had a cup of coffee for that team:
Cardinals: Charlie Trippi, Ernie Nevers, Ollie Matson, Edgerrin James, Emmit Smith, Jim Thorpe
Bears: Bronco Nagurski, Red Grange, George McAffee, Gale Sayers
Broncos: Floyd Little, Terrell Davis, Tony Dorsett
Lions: Barry Sanders, Bill Dudley, Doak Walker, John Henry Johnson, Ollie Matson, Hugh McElhenny
Packers: Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Tony Canadeo, Johnny Blood McNally
Colts: Edgerrin James, Eric Dickerson, Lenny Moore, Marshall Faulk
Rams: Elroy Hirsch, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, Ollie Matson, Jerome Bettis
Giants: Alphonse Leemans, Frank Gifford, Hugh McElhenny, Jim Thorpe, Larry Csonka (Saquon Barkley could end up being this team's best)
49ers: Hugh McElhenny, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson, OJ Simpson
Jets: Curtis Martin, LaDanian Tomlinson, John Riggins
Washington Team: Bill Dudley, Bobby Mitchell, Cliff Battles, John Riggins
(It seems that Bill Dudley, Hugh McElhenny and John Henry Johnson played for like half the teams in the league)
Browns, Steelers ,the team formerly known as the Redskins, Rams, Colts, Packers, Bears, are the only teams with 4 "Primary" HOF RBs.
On RB tradition. Browns are very good, but so are other teams. Besides Browns and Steelers here are other teams that had at least 3 HOF RBs/HBs/FBs play for them at some point. Note, Bold means that the team was a "Primary" team that that player played for. Unbold means that the player only had a cup of coffee for that team:
Cardinals: Charlie Trippi, Ernie Nevers, Ollie Matson, Edgerrin James, Emmit Smith, Jim Thorpe
Bears: Bronco Nagurski, Red Grange, George McAffee, Gale Sayers
Broncos: Floyd Little, Terrell Davis, Tony Dorsett
Lions: Barry Sanders, Bill Dudley, Doak Walker, John Henry Johnson, Ollie Matson, Hugh McElhenny
Packers: Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Tony Canadeo, Johnny Blood McNally
Colts: Edgerrin James, Eric Dickerson, Lenny Moore, Marshall Faulk
Rams: Elroy Hirsch, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, Ollie Matson, Jerome Bettis
Giants: Alphonse Leemans, Frank Gifford, Hugh McElhenny, Jim Thorpe, Larry Csonka (Saquon Barkley could end up being this team's best)
49ers: Hugh McElhenny, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson, OJ Simpson
Jets: Curtis Martin, LaDanian Tomlinson, John Riggins
Washington Team: Bill Dudley, Bobby Mitchell, Cliff Battles, John Riggins
(It seems that Bill Dudley, Hugh McElhenny and John Henry Johnson played for like half the teams in the league)
Browns, Steelers ,the team formerly known as the Redskins, Rams, Colts, Packers, Bears, are the only teams with 4 "Primary" HOF RBs.
Man, hard to believe Freeman McNeil didn't make the list. No Tiki.
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Good stuff Gips! Greg Pruitt was still one of my faves to watch running the ball for us. The only guy since him to average better than 4.7 yards per carry is Nick Chubb. Like Pruitt, Chubb can score from anywhere on the field and get a lot of yards after contact. Unlike Pruitt, Chubb doesn't fumble during yards after contact time. Having said that, Pruitt was a better receiver out of the backfield.
I like our RB tradition. IMO, this team is built to run the ball down the esophagus - which will open doors for the play-action pass game. I think both of our new starting tackles are better run blockers than the last 2 we had; where Chubb still averaged over 5 yards per carry. When he gets a breather, the opponent gets Kareem'd while they're still sucking gas. Not a bad 1-2 punch...
On RB tradition. Browns are very good, but so are other teams. Besides Browns and Steelers here are other teams that had at least 3 HOF RBs/HBs/FBs play for them at some point. Note, Bold means that the team was a "Primary" team that that player played for. Unbold means that the player only had a cup of coffee for that team:
Cardinals: Charlie Trippi, Ernie Nevers, Ollie Matson, Edgerrin James, Emmit Smith, Jim Thorpe
Bears: Bronco Nagurski, Red Grange, George McAffee, Gale Sayers
Broncos: Floyd Little, Terrell Davis, Tony Dorsett
Lions: Barry Sanders, Bill Dudley, Doak Walker, John Henry Johnson, Ollie Matson, Hugh McElhenny
Packers: Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Tony Canadeo, Johnny Blood McNally
Colts: Edgerrin James, Eric Dickerson, Lenny Moore, Marshall Faulk
Rams: Elroy Hirsch, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, Ollie Matson, Jerome Bettis
Giants: Alphonse Leemans, Frank Gifford, Hugh McElhenny, Jim Thorpe, Larry Csonka (Saquon Barkley could end up being this team's best)
49ers: Hugh McElhenny, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson, OJ Simpson
Jets: Curtis Martin, LaDanian Tomlinson, John Riggins
Washington Team: Bill Dudley, Bobby Mitchell, Cliff Battles, John Riggins
(It seems that Bill Dudley, Hugh McElhenny and John Henry Johnson played for like half the teams in the league)
Browns, Steelers ,the team formerly known as the Redskins, Rams, Colts, Packers, Bears, are the only teams with 4 "Primary" HOF RBs.
On RB tradition. Browns are very good, but so are other teams. Besides Browns and Steelers here are other teams that had at least 3 HOF RBs/HBs/FBs play for them at some point. Note, Bold means that the team was a "Primary" team that that player played for. Unbold means that the player only had a cup of coffee for that team:
Cardinals: Charlie Trippi, Ernie Nevers, Ollie Matson, Edgerrin James, Emmit Smith, Jim Thorpe
Bears: Bronco Nagurski, Red Grange, George McAffee, Gale Sayers
Broncos: Floyd Little, Terrell Davis, Tony Dorsett
Lions: Barry Sanders, Bill Dudley, Doak Walker, John Henry Johnson, Ollie Matson, Hugh McElhenny
Packers: Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Tony Canadeo, Johnny Blood McNally
Colts: Edgerrin James, Eric Dickerson, Lenny Moore, Marshall Faulk
Rams: Elroy Hirsch, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, Ollie Matson, Jerome Bettis
Giants: Alphonse Leemans, Frank Gifford, Hugh McElhenny, Jim Thorpe, Larry Csonka (Saquon Barkley could end up being this team's best)
49ers: Hugh McElhenny, Joe Perry, John Henry Johnson, OJ Simpson
Jets: Curtis Martin, LaDanian Tomlinson, John Riggins
Washington Team: Bill Dudley, Bobby Mitchell, Cliff Battles, John Riggins
(It seems that Bill Dudley, Hugh McElhenny and John Henry Johnson played for like half the teams in the league)
Browns, Steelers ,the team formerly known as the Redskins, Rams, Colts, Packers, Bears, are the only teams with 4 "Primary" HOF RBs.
Great subject - nice job! While I mostly only give a rat about Cleveland - I will always be a fan of the RUNNING GAME so here's a few piggybacks/honorable mentions:
The backfield for the undefeated 72 Dolphins team may not have had 3 HOF backs (only Csonka); but they were tough for teams to match up with. Opponents that tried to congest the box, had to worry about HOF WR and speedster Paul Warfield over the top. A lot of people forget, they didn't have their starting QB for something like 9 of regular season games and part of the post season. They had an old man everyone thought was washed up (Earl Morral) when Shula brought him over from Baltimore to Miami.
Rams had another very good RB (Lawrence McCutcheon) that made 5 consecutive Pro Bowls in 73, 74, 75, 76, and 77 back when they only played 14 regular season games. In 73, he actually averaged 5.2 yards a carry. 4 of those years he had over 1000 yards and the other was over 900 yards (which would have been over 1000 if they played 16 games)
I'd probably include Freeman McNeil in comparison to other NY Jets RBs in that franchise history. He averaged 4.5 yards per carry, made 3 Pro Bowls and gained 8074 yards in a 12 year career which isn't spectacular (but like Greg Pruitt - he was spectacular enough to wonder what would have been if he did stay healthy). While his role got reduced his last 4 years - he averaged 4.6 yards per carry when he was 31 and 5.9 yards a carry when he was 32. He had some durability issues that caused him to miss a lot of games throughout the career and water down his overall rushing stats.
Other thought: The HOF is a great achievement but I'm not a fan of some of their decisions/criteria. For example, Jerome Bettis had 7 different seasons in Pitt where he didn't even average of 4 yards per carry on a team that usually put about 2 of their OL in the Pro Bowl and sometimes as many as 3. His career ended at 3.9 yards per carry. He had a long career and he played for Pittsburgh so the HOF accepted good instead of elite IMO. If they're gonna tell us Clay Matthews isn't good enough for the HOF - then I'm going to say neither is Bettis. ALOT of RBs - even a non drafted Willie Parker ran well in their philosophy and system. People defend him with length of career, reliability, frequency of post season appearances. Okay, didn't Clay do all of the same things? During my lifetime as a fan (I'm 56 so let's start this question at about 1970) has Cleveland ever frequented the playoffs more than they did throughout the 80s when Clay started at several different LB positions in our 3-4 and 4-3? HOF OG Joe DeLamielleure was asked at a Browns Backers Banquet - who was the biggest challenge he had. Without hesitation he said "Clay Matthews is the toughest SOB I've ever faced. Trust me, I had to face him in practice all the time." Then he brought up the "Jack of all Trades" where he said Clay usually upgraded the LB spot he moved into for an injured starter. Sounds like he was saying Clay was the Master of all Trades pertaining to the LB position. IMO, that's criteria that should be counted not neglected.
What was the reason, they waited all the way until Gene Hickerson was senile in a wheel chair wearing diapers? Then they went and let a punk like Terrell Owens in A LOT quicker. Me-O was an absolute brat that never stopped putting "I before team."
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I think the 49ers were the only team to have 3 HOF RBs play for them at the same time. Johnson Perry McElhaney
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I think the 49ers were the only team to have 3 HOF RBs play for them at the same time. Johnson Perry McElhaney
I think the 49ers were the only team to have 3 HOF RBs play for them at the same time. Johnson Perry McElhaney
And they had Y.A. Tittle at QB, and never even made it to a NFL Championship Game.
The Rams and Lions were tough in the Western Conference in that era.
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