PLUTO GIVING GREAT INSIGHT
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Read some Pluto and I think this may help help some of those that are in love or mentally challenged.
BTW, I deem this worthy of a fresh thread.
Anderson is not the short answer for the Browns: Terry Pluto
by Terry Pluto, Plain Dealer Columnist
Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:56 PM
Plain Dealer FileBrowns quarterback Derek Anderson continues to struggle with completing short-range passes.
Terry PlutoBrowns Coach Eric Mangini can try to simulate all the different game conditions in practice for his quarterbacks. He can juggle them during Saturday's preseason game against Detroit. He can wait until the last moment to pick a starter for the Sept. 13 home opener against Minnesota.
But the fact remains that he has two choices: Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn.
Another fact remains: Anderson has a very poor touch on short passes.
OK, some fans probably know that.
But how many of us ever put some numbers to it?
The NFL average for completing passes in the 1-to-10 yard range is 67.0 percent. Anderson was at 54.2 last season.
In his three years with the Browns, the stats on those passes have been going down for Anderson: 63.0, 57.9 and 54.2.
For comparison's sake, I picked 15 random quarterbacks from the list of 32 that ESPN considered starters in 2008 to check their completion percentage on those short 1-to-10 yard passes.
Here are the results: Peyton Manning (72.5), Brett Favre (72.2), Shaun Hill (71.9), Ben Roethlisberger (70.4), Kurt Warner (69.7), Matt Cassel (68.9), Philip Rivers (68.6), Drew Brees (68.2), Trent Edwards (66.7), Ryan Fitzpatrick (66.5), Jason Campbell (64.8), Matt Ryan (64.1), Joe Flacco (63.9), JaMarcus Russell (62.3) and Marc Bulger (61.2).
It's a list that includes young and old quarterbacks, stars and some who should be subs. Yet everyone was above 60 percent.
Anderson has not been above 60 percent since 2006, when he played five games for the Browns. In his Pro Bowl season of 2007, he was at 57.9 throwing to the sure hands of Kellen Winslow and Joe Jurevicius, not just the sometimes unreliable Braylon Edwards.
What's the big deal about passes in the 1-to-10 yard range?
In most games, about 55 percent of the passes are 10 or fewer yards. Consider that 155-of-285 (54 percent) of Anderson's attempts last season fell in that category.
While some dwell on Anderson's interceptions, the problem on short passes is probably even more of a concern to the coaches.
I asked Mangini about it in two different ways at Thursday's press conference, and he gave two evasive answers.
And here's exactly what he said: "To me, the historic information is good to have and you look at that. You also evaluate it in the context of what you're trying to get done and how well he makes decisions based on who's open and where he goes with the football and things like that. All those things that are in the past are just that. I don't think there is any dramatic difference once way or the other, in terms of where he goes with the ball, whether it's short inside, short outside, whether it's intermediate, like curls, comebacks, whether it's deep."
Which brings us to Brady Quinn.
He was only 31-of-57 (54.4) on those short passes last season. You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample. cool.gif He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters.
Nonetheless, Quinn dropped to the 21st pick in the 2007 draft because of questions about his accuracy and arm strength.
He did complete 58 percent of his college passes at Notre Dame, 63 percent in his last two seasons. But those who have watched him practice are not overwhelmed with his touch on short passes.
The good news is quarterbacks often improve their percentage on short passes with experience, just like NBA players often are better free throw shooters after several years in the league. Anderson is 26, Quinn is 24. Quinn also has played so little in the NFL (three starts), it's impossible to know what type of pro he'll become.
Anderson has started 27 games, so it's not like he's a worn-out veteran. But as the Browns plan to have a ball-control offense and pick a quarterback, they need to find someone who can complete a short pass with something close to the NFL average of 2-of-3. If not, it will be yet another long season.
Which brings us to Brady Quinn.
He was only 31-of-57 (54.4) on those short passes last season.
Which brings back to "if you have two QB's, you don't have a QB"
This post didn't deserve it's own thread, throw it back into the mix with the other goo-goo eyed Brady Queen glorified posts.
... and we are also back to Zippys, "JUST DO SOMETHING" statement. If Queen starts, it's by default ... nothing to shoot off guns in the air like an Afghani over.
(Please excuse Riffer, as he has the doggone sniffles this week and has to work long hours)
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Less than 10 quarters experience as a pro for BQ yet he has a perceived edge over DA...granted DA had an incredible first 10 quarters but that was because no defense knew his gig and the team was fresh...bq took over with everyone hurt and still did as good as DA bottomline BQ will likely get very good very fast DA will still be DA when bq goes down which he likely will i couldnt trust anyone to back this team up like i can DA...we will see both if not all 3 qbs this season due to oline problems....;(
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Which brings us to Brady Quinn.
He was only 31-of-57 (54.4) on those short passes last season.
Which brings back to "if you have two QB's, you don't have a QB"
This post didn't deserve it's own thread, throw it back into the mix with the other goo-goo eyed Brady Queen glorified posts.
... and we are also back to Zippys, "JUST DO SOMETHING" statement. If Queen starts, it's by default ... nothing to shoot off guns in the air like an Afghani over.
(Please excuse Riffer, as he has the doggone sniffles this week and has to work long hours)
Which brings back to "if you have two QB's, you don't have a QB"
This post didn't deserve it's own thread, throw it back into the mix with the other goo-goo eyed Brady Queen glorified posts.
... and we are also back to Zippys, "JUST DO SOMETHING" statement. If Queen starts, it's by default ... nothing to shoot off guns in the air like an Afghani over.
(Please excuse Riffer, as he has the doggone sniffles this week and has to work long hours)
Dawg boner 3 was way ahead of me in thread starting so I am trying to keep up.
Satn gonna be hatin on my Queen.
Lord knows QB's in camps everywhere are lighting it up.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
This all goes back to DA has had his chance and BQ hasn't.
Quinn's turn. Let's see what we've got.
We keep hearing over and over about how Minnesota has top notch players in the trenches. Whoever gets the job, they better be able to complete the short stuff as hanging out in the pocket and waiting for a 35-yard out to develop seems unlikely to be called by Dabol or executed well by the team.
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Which brings back to "if you have two QB's, you don't have a QB"
This post didn't deserve it's own thread, throw it back into the mix with the other goo-goo eyed Brady Queen glorified posts.
... and we are also back to Zippys, "JUST DO SOMETHING" statement. If Queen starts, it's by default ... nothing to shoot off guns in the air like an Afghani over.
(Please excuse Riffer, as he has the doggone sniffles this week and has to work long hours)
Dawg boner 3 was way ahead of me in thread starting so I am trying to keep up.
Satn gonna be hatin on my Queen.
Lord knows QB's in camps everywhere are lighting it up.
...Lord knows QB's in camps everywhere are lighting it up.
Yeah, Cutler had worse #'s than Quinn last Saturday. Kyle Orton looks terrible and Cassel is throwing INT's left and right. But, who knows how all of them will play in the regular season.
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Yeah, Cutler had worse #'s than Quinn last Saturday. Kyle Orton looks terrible and Cassel is throwing INT's left and right. But, who knows how all of them will play in the regular season.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
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Yeah, Cutler had worse #'s than Quinn last Saturday. Kyle Orton looks terrible and Cassel is throwing INT's left and right. But, who knows how all of them will play in the regular season.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
Good God, and you worry about my summer cold. You got the menstrual cramps real bad, even starting a thread to show up this one.
So how does one go about being a fan of a team when he hates the starting QB anyway?
Can't wait for Zombo's input.
Just cuz I have a half naked Brady poster above my bed, does that make it "wrong"?
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Read some Pluto and I think this may help help some of those that are in love or mentally challenged.
BTW, I deem this worthy of a fresh thread.
Anderson is not the short answer for the Browns: Terry Pluto
by Terry Pluto, Plain Dealer Columnist
Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:56 PM
Plain Dealer FileBrowns quarterback Derek Anderson continues to struggle with completing short-range passes.
Terry PlutoBrowns Coach Eric Mangini can try to simulate all the different game conditions in practice for his quarterbacks. He can juggle them during Saturday's preseason game against Detroit. He can wait until the last moment to pick a starter for the Sept. 13 home opener against Minnesota.
But the fact remains that he has two choices: Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn.
Another fact remains: Anderson has a very poor touch on short passes.
OK, some fans probably know that.
But how many of us ever put some numbers to it?
The NFL average for completing passes in the 1-to-10 yard range is 67.0 percent. Anderson was at 54.2 last season.
In his three years with the Browns, the stats on those passes have been going down for Anderson: 63.0, 57.9 and 54.2.
For comparison's sake, I picked 15 random quarterbacks from the list of 32 that ESPN considered starters in 2008 to check their completion percentage on those short 1-to-10 yard passes.
Here are the results: Peyton Manning (72.5), Brett Favre (72.2), Shaun Hill (71.9), Ben Roethlisberger (70.4), Kurt Warner (69.7), Matt Cassel (68.9), Philip Rivers (68.6), Drew Brees (68.2), Trent Edwards (66.7), Ryan Fitzpatrick (66.5), Jason Campbell (64.8), Matt Ryan (64.1), Joe Flacco (63.9), JaMarcus Russell (62.3) and Marc Bulger (61.2).
It's a list that includes young and old quarterbacks, stars and some who should be subs. Yet everyone was above 60 percent.
Anderson has not been above 60 percent since 2006, when he played five games for the Browns. In his Pro Bowl season of 2007, he was at 57.9 throwing to the sure hands of Kellen Winslow and Joe Jurevicius, not just the sometimes unreliable Braylon Edwards.
What's the big deal about passes in the 1-to-10 yard range?
In most games, about 55 percent of the passes are 10 or fewer yards. Consider that 155-of-285 (54 percent) of Anderson's attempts last season fell in that category.
While some dwell on Anderson's interceptions, the problem on short passes is probably even more of a concern to the coaches.
I asked Mangini about it in two different ways at Thursday's press conference, and he gave two evasive answers.
And here's exactly what he said: "To me, the historic information is good to have and you look at that. You also evaluate it in the context of what you're trying to get done and how well he makes decisions based on who's open and where he goes with the football and things like that. All those things that are in the past are just that. I don't think there is any dramatic difference once way or the other, in terms of where he goes with the ball, whether it's short inside, short outside, whether it's intermediate, like curls, comebacks, whether it's deep."
Which brings us to Brady Quinn.
He was only 31-of-57 (54.4) on those short passes last season. You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample. cool.gif He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters.
Nonetheless, Quinn dropped to the 21st pick in the 2007 draft because of questions about his accuracy and arm strength.
He did complete 58 percent of his college passes at Notre Dame, 63 percent in his last two seasons. But those who have watched him practice are not overwhelmed with his touch on short passes.
The good news is quarterbacks often improve their percentage on short passes with experience, just like NBA players often are better free throw shooters after several years in the league. Anderson is 26, Quinn is 24. Quinn also has played so little in the NFL (three starts), it's impossible to know what type of pro he'll become.
Anderson has started 27 games, so it's not like he's a worn-out veteran. But as the Browns plan to have a ball-control offense and pick a quarterback, they need to find someone who can complete a short pass with something close to the NFL average of 2-of-3. If not, it will be yet another long season.
Anderson is not the short answer for the Browns: Terry Pluto
by Terry Pluto, Plain Dealer Columnist
Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:56 PM
Plain Dealer FileBrowns quarterback Derek Anderson continues to struggle with completing short-range passes.
Those shitty Quinn numbers blow up his point. He shoulda left them out like BQ Nation does.
what is the title of the article anyway?
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Anderson is not the short answer for the Browns: Terry Pluto
by Terry Pluto, Plain Dealer Columnist
Thursday August 20, 2009, 8:56 PM
Plain Dealer FileBrowns quarterback Derek Anderson continues to struggle with completing short-range passes.
Those shitty Quinn numbers blow up his point. He shoulda left them out like BQ Nation does.
what is the title of the article anyway?
Those shitty Quinn numbers blow up his point. He shoulda left them out like BQ Nation does.
what is the title of the article anyway?
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample.
He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters." -
Those shitty Quinn numbers blow up his point. He shoulda left them out like BQ Nation does.
what is the title of the article anyway?
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample.
He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Masters said:
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample. He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Like DA-Nation does.
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Those shitty Quinn numbers blow up his point. He shoulda left them out like BQ Nation does.
what is the title of the article anyway?
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample.
He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Masters said:
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample. He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Quinn waited a year and a half to get his chance to have some substantial playing timein the regular season. He probably could have had a full-out broken hand and tried to tough it out.
I don't blame either guy for playing with an injury. They don't want to give up their chances.
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Masters said:
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample. He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
I simply ask this, how much better did CLE's offense fair after the broken finger finally forced BQ back out of the starting spot?
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@hiwaygal said:
Fair enough...does that also apply to Derek Anderson playing when he had a concussion?And not trying to make excuses, but when Brady's finger was injured, didn't Derek already have an injury and couldn't play? The next in line was Dorsey? I think at that point, playing with the broken finger probably WAS the better chance to win.
With a concussion, the player may not know he has a problem. That is the coaches job to see if his qb is here with us or in some foggy place.
As for the injury...I seem to recall Anderson being injured after Quinn went down.
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Masters said:
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample. He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
Ehh, I think it was more a football player's mentality to suck it up and go. I can't stand when guys don't play hurt. Maybe it didn't work out, but I like the approach.
Quinn's NFL #'s continue to be statistically unusable. Pluto mentions this. DA's #'s are mathematically and statistically rock solid, and they are trending downward.
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@hiwaygal said:
Fair enough...does that also apply to Derek Anderson playing when he had a concussion?And not trying to make excuses, but when Brady's finger was injured, didn't Derek already have an injury and couldn't play? The next in line was Dorsey? I think at that point, playing with the broken finger probably WAS the better chance to win.
With a concussion, the player may not know he has a problem. That is the coaches job to see if his qb is here with us or in some foggy place.
As for the injury...I seem to recall Anderson being injured after Quinn went down.
With a concussion, the player may not know he has a problem. That is the coaches job to see if his qb is here with us or in some foggy place.
As for the injury...I seem to recall Anderson being injured after Quinn went down.
Actually, his concussion was to START the season. So he definitely was hurt with BQ on the bench.
But personally I think the injury thing is a bunch of malarky. There isn't a single player out there that doesn't play injured at least a couple of games every year. Jamal Lewis had his ankle last year....Winslow was walking wounded....Cribbs had his ribs...Steinbach his back...and the list goes on...and each of them played at least 2-3 games with those injuries.
It is the coaches job to monitor that and to pull a player too injured to play. So, in Brady's and DA's cases...they determined that they could go.
Anyway...I personally don't care who starts...but 27 games with below a 55% completion rate on passes less than 10 yards is definitely a pattern...not a fluke.
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Peens is becoming the softcore version of da ich.
I like it!!!
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@jadbf said:
And the coaches should have seen in practice that the finger really was affecting Quinn's throwing motion.But I agree with you. I'm not sure anderson with a concussion is any different than Anderson without one...so it would be tough for him to tell.
LOL....funny joke.....but you know what I am saying about a concussion is true..
As for the suck it up and play...I agree to a degree. It just depends on who it is and what is hurt.
Broken fingers and throwing aren't a good mix.
That said, I am sure BQ will get his shot this season though I don't have any high hopes. My feeling is our QB isn't yet on the roster.
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@jadbf said:
And the coaches should have seen in practice that the finger really was affecting Quinn's throwing motion.But I agree with you. I'm not sure anderson with a concussion is any different than Anderson without one...so it would be tough for him to tell.
LOL....funny joke.....but you know what I am saying about a concussion is true..
As for the suck it up and play...I agree to a degree. It just depends on who it is and what is hurt.
Broken fingers and throwing aren't a good mix.
That said, I am sure BQ will get his shot this season though I don't have any high hopes. My feeling is our QB isn't yet on the roster.
LOL....funny joke.....but you know what I am saying about a concussion is true..
As for the suck it up and play...I agree to a degree. It just depends on who it is and what is hurt.
Broken fingers and throwing aren't a good mix.
That said, I am sure BQ will get his shot this season though I don't have any high hopes. My feeling is our QB isn't yet on the roster.
I guess thats a better approach to take than proclaiming BQ our savior. At least when you're wrong in this scenario you'll happily eat crow.
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peen, your point in this thread is really disappointing. Its really childish to be honest.
Let me get this straight: you are going to call a football player selfish for trying to play through an injury? I guess you're right. That NEVER happens.
Better yet, you're going call Quinn selfish but not hold DA to the same standard because "he didn't know he was injured"? Seriously?
You've lost it my friend. My advice here: stop posting in this thread.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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