PLUTO GIVING GREAT INSIGHT
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All I can really say is that after 3 starts DA had a 63% short pass completion percentage according to Pluto (2006) and BQ has a 54.4%. DA's percentage dropped the following year in his first year as a full time starter but he did go 10 5 with 3700 yards and 29 TDS. But, he has not shown any growth in his game and most certainly did not light it up in the first preseason game.
And when BQ took over last year was actually when the Browns had gotten back their receiver core, DA was the QB that did not have a healthy receiver core last year. But, that does not really matter only mention that because somebody said BQ took over when the Browns were not healthy.
So basically in 2006 the Browns were 4 -12 and DA got 3 starts and put up some stats to compare with BQ's 2008 starts when the Browns were 4 - 12. As you prolly know those stats were almost identical with DA having a slightly higher completion percentage. The way it looks BQ will get to start this season with a new OC, a favorable schedule and by all accounts upgraded talent. Sound familiar? Let us hope that BQ's first 7 or 8 games as a full time starter are similar to what DA did and then the mirroring stops. Let us hope that when defenses start to game plan for BQ that his performance does not drop off.
Important to remember that youth and first year starting is NOT an excuse. He must come in and show growth, he must beat the good teams and not just the bad teams this year and drops by receivers and a bad defense are no excuse for losing. There is allot of pressure on BQ to be a franchise QB and not allot of time to prove it. DA got 27 starts but it only took around 12 for most people to decide he was not the answer. He had a decent first 3 in 2006 on a horrible team and then had a good first 7 in 2007. By week 11 and two not great games he was branded as a one hit wonder. BQ needs to be held to the same standard as DA. And it is a good standard to set. You want and deserve a Super Bowl QB, not a winning QB but a star.
I agree that DA is not the answer in Cleveland. I guess I am just not thinking that BQ has done anything to prove he will be more than a capable NFL QB. But I will hold judgement for at least this season. Because even if he tears it up the first half of the year that does not really matter, it matters what happens in the last part of the year when the defenses are game planning for him.
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All I can really say is that after 3 starts DA had a 63% short pass completion percentage according to Pluto (2006) and BQ has a 54.4%. DA's percentage dropped the following year in his first year as a full time starter but he did go 10 5 with 3700 yards and 29 TDS. But, he has not shown any growth in his game and most certainly did not light it up in the first preseason game.
And when BQ took over last year was actually when the Browns had gotten back their receiver core, DA was the QB that did not have a healthy receiver core last year. But, that does not really matter only mention that because somebody said BQ took over when the Browns were not healthy.
So basically in 2006 the Browns were 4 -12 and DA got 3 starts and put up some stats to compare with BQ's 2008 starts when the Browns were 4 - 12. As you prolly know those stats were almost identical with DA having a slightly higher completion percentage. The way it looks BQ will get to start this season with a new OC, a favorable schedule and by all accounts upgraded talent. Sound familiar? Let us hope that BQ's first 7 or 8 games as a full time starter are similar to what DA did and then the mirroring stops. Let us hope that when defenses start to game plan for BQ that his performance does not drop off.
Important to remember that youth and first year starting is NOT an excuse. He must come in and show growth, he must beat the good teams and not just the bad teams this year and drops by receivers and a bad defense are no excuse for losing. There is allot of pressure on BQ to be a franchise QB and not allot of time to prove it. DA got 27 starts but it only took around 12 for most people to decide he was not the answer. He had a decent first 3 in 2006 on a horrible team and then had a good first 7 in 2007. By week 11 and two not great games he was branded as a one hit wonder. BQ needs to be held to the same standard as DA. And it is a good standard to set. You want and deserve a Super Bowl QB, not a winning QB but a star.
I agree that DA is not the answer in Cleveland. I guess I am just not thinking that BQ has done anything to prove he will be more than a capable NFL QB. But I will hold judgement for at least this season. Because even if he tears it up the first half of the year that does not really matter, it matters what happens in the last part of the year when the defenses are game planning for him.
And when BQ took over last year was actually when the Browns had gotten back their receiver core
this is an often overlooked point by BQ Nation.
The Bronco game was the first time that Braylon, Donte, and Winslow were on the field at the same time.
It should have been a real layup for Quinnie.
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Zombo said:
We knew accuracy on the short (and mid-range) passes was Anderson's achilles heel coming into this ... I stated many times in the offseason that it's a tough thing to suddenly correct, which is why I gave the edge to Quinn: Not because he's fiery, has big muscles, aced the wonderlic or looks good above Rif's sickbed (just above the Puffies and the inhaler) ... but because of more accurate passing.The fact that Anderson is still showing the same tendencies and Quinn still has not beat him out ... is troubling.
It's because Brady Quinn hasn't done enough yet. I repeat my mantra: we love you Brady, now DO SOMETHING.
The reason I get involved with these QB threads is never to tear down Brady Quinn, it is to support Derek Anderson. It makes my stomach turn when Derek has a bad practice and Quinn fans are on here high-fiving each other, or Derek throws an INT in his brief exhibition performance and the Quinraqi's fire off their guns in the street.
I would love to see you guys celebrating because Brady Quinn went out and performed like a winner and champion and won this contest hands down. He's totally capable of doing it. But he hasn't.
But celebrating because he sucked less? Seriously?
Anderson is "melting down" because he's upset that a receiver ran a wrong route? Really?
The "wheels are coming off" because DA misses a pass in the flat? Do I have that right?
Quit rooting against Derek Anderson and start rooting for Brady Quinn, if that's the guy you want to see start.
I like them both. And if everybody was to go after Quinn unfairly, I'd stand up for him too.
Derek Anderson is by all accounts a good guy, a gifted athlete, and a Cleveland Brown. He has won games for my team, he has thrilled me on Sundays ... I will support him as long as he wears the colors and gives his all.
Again ... I like them both. The reason you see me come to Anderson's defense so often is because the Quinn Fags annoy the shit out of me. Quit tearing down a good Cleveland Brown who might have to lead us this year ... your guy needs to STEP UP. That's when this battle ends. When Quinn steps up and his coach and his teammates say "Yeah ... that's our guy."
I just hope he does it soon, before you guys get any gayer.
Zombo
--If you root against Anderson this weekend, you better check your fandom.
Zippy nailed it, as painful as that is for me to say. I guess he has learned from my QB teachings over the years ...
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And when BQ took over last year was actually when the Browns had gotten back their receiver core
this is an often overlooked point by BQ Nation.
The Bronco game was the first time that Braylon, Donte, and Winslow were on the field at the same time.
It should have been a real layup for Quinnie.
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You know, I generally like Pluto better than the other talking head pundits, but even he is having a hard time angling for a story on this dead horse topic. The problem I have with this article is, he tries to come of factual, but the only true facts you can take away from the article are:
• Anderson's short pass completion percentage last year was 54.2; Quinn's was 54.4.
• Two years separate the two in age. (Well, they're actually only 16 months apart in age, but who's counting...besides Pluto.)
If you're trying to make a case for one guy being clearly ahead of the other, these stats sure aren't accomplishing that.
Read the sentence right after Quinn's percentage. You got a sampling of 10 quarters of play vs. a whole lot more attempts. The real point Pluto is making is the trend with DA.
Two years separate them in age on the planet, but 25+ NFL starts and 2 years of being in the NFL do separate them in NFL age/experience.
Masters said:
Read the sentence right after Quinn's percentage. You got a sampling of 10 quarters of play vs. a whole lot more attempts. The real point Pluto is making is the trend with DA.That is a good point, and I did understand that when reading. However, if the point of your argument (Pluto) is statistics, and then you argue that Quinn's history in the NFL doesn't provide a large enough (or accurate enough) sample to judge, then why make that the argument for your article? It's kind of much ado about nothing...again.
Masters said:
Two years separate them in age on the planet, but 25+ NFL starts and 2 years of being in the NFL do separate them in NFL age/experience.Again, true (although it's really only 16 months...they are basically the same age.) Although Quinn has 4-years of starting experience at arguably one of the nation's top college football programs (at least at the time) that ran an "NFL type" offense. He was billed as the most "NFL ready" QB in the draft where he was selected in the first round. Clearly, he has "the pedigree" which is why we are all excited.
Anderson, on the other hand, does not have that pedigree...or that college experience to pull from. You never know what one's path to success will be and this still feels very much like apples to oranges, no matter what inconclusive stats you parade about.
And by the way...I am truly one of those guys who could truly care about WHO the QB is, as long as they are successful.
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@shepwrite said:
He busted his finger in the first half of his second start (in horrible weather conditions).RE:HORRIBLE WEATHER CONDITIONS
During the Buffalo game on 11/17/08 the temp varied between 28 and 26, the wind varied from 4 mph to 12 mph, and snow began falling at approximately 11:20pm. A total of 0.01" of precipitation fell during the game. Snow did not accumulate in the stadium during the game.
shep, are you implying that Quinnie is very sensitive to these playing conditions and that he will continue to perform poorly in conditions similar to this in the future?
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@shepwrite said:
All we have on Quinn is the Bronco game, really. He busted his finger in the first half of his second start (in horrible weather conditions). Now we have practices, scrimmages, and the first preseason game, and he's pulling away from Anderson, it seems.All piss duels aside, I think he has to get hurt or throw four picks to not start, too.
Apart from getting hurt Quinn could intentionally ground every play and still start. Let it go Shep. He'll be fine.
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Yeah, Cutler had worse #'s than Quinn last Saturday. Kyle Orton looks terrible and Cassel is throwing INT's left and right. But, who knows how all of them will play in the regular season.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
The problem was not, is not the preseason. It was the regular season where DA routinely overthrew/underthrew passes of that nature. I am not here to take sides on the DA/BQ issue necessarily except to say what I think will happen. I just point out facts.
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@shepwrite said:
He busted his finger in the first half of his second start (in horrible weather conditions).RE:HORRIBLE WEATHER CONDITIONS
During the Buffalo game on 11/17/08 the temp varied between 28 and 26, the wind varied from 4 mph to 12 mph, and snow began falling at approximately 11:20pm. A total of 0.01" of precipitation fell during the game. Snow did not accumulate in the stadium during the game.
shep, are you implying that Quinnie is very sensitive to these playing conditions and that he will continue to perform poorly in conditions similar to this in the future?
RE:HORRIBLE WEATHER CONDITIONS
During the Buffalo game on 11/17/08 the temp varied between 28 and 26, the wind varied from 4 mph to 12 mph, and snow began falling at approximately 11:20pm. A total of 0.01" of precipitation fell during the game. Snow did not accumulate in the stadium during the game.
shep, are you implying that Quinnie is very sensitive to these playing conditions and that he will continue to perform poorly in conditions similar to this in the future?
Hey, Lumfreddy's got his Cherry Pick back on. Was worried there for a sec.
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People always forget the political side. RL drafted Quinn to be his corporate frontman. RL/Savage never did get along in organizational philosophy. RL is definitely a "Patriots school" guy.
So the Browns have a surprising 2007 season behind a surprise QB. Then Savage basically overrules RL and keeps Anderson knowing full well that RL wouldn't like it. But DA is more what Savage wanted, in his philosophy. He thought if he kept winning RL would have no choice to relent. He could sign DA to a even bigger deal down the road and make him the "corporate frontman" displacing BQ.
But the winning didn't continue and RL fired Savage quickly. He goes out and gets a Patriots guy himself and he brings the Patriots varient of offense to Cleveland as well, which Mangini did not run with the Jets.
As I said earlier in camp, Quinn has always looked better in the pocket in the base offense even though he wasn't sharp. Anderson requires a adjustment to run this offense which deters from the Browns gameplan and strategy.
It would be easy if some other teams would have valued Anderson but they don't, so here we sit.
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People always forget the political side. RL drafted Quinn to be his corporate frontman. RL/Savage never did get along in organizational philosophy. RL is definitely a "Patriots school" guy.
So the Browns have a surprising 2007 season behind a surprise QB. Then Savage basically overrules RL and keeps Anderson knowing full well that RL wouldn't like it. But DA is more what Savage wanted, in his philosophy. He thought if he kept winning RL would have no choice to relent. He could sign DA to a even bigger deal down the road and make him the "corporate frontman" displacing BQ.
But the winning didn't continue and RL fired Savage quickly. He goes out and gets a Patriots guy himself and he brings the Patriots varient of offense to Cleveland as well, which Mangini did not run with the Jets.
As I said earlier in camp, Quinn has always looked better in the pocket in the base offense even though he wasn't sharp. Anderson requires a adjustment to run this offense which deters from the Browns gameplan and strategy.
It would be easy if some other teams would have valued Anderson but they don't, so here we sit.
RL is definitely a "Patriots school" guy.
Randy "Al Davis" Lerner is a Patriots school guy??
BQ Nation comes up with a lot of wacky shit, but this is right up there.
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RL is definitely a "Patriots school" guy.
Randy "Al Davis" Lerner is a Patriots school guy??
BQ Nation comes up with a lot of wacky shit, but this is right up there.
Randy "Al Davis" Lerner is a Patriots school guy??
BQ Nation comes up with a lot of wacky shit, but this is right up there.
The way Lerner has run the team would go opposite of your "Al Davis" line there.
It ain't wacky shit. Kraft owns the team and has a management style of put the right people in and leave them to their job. Lerner has the same approach. Not wacky at all. You want wacky stuff, read a post by that Lumbergh guy...oh wait..
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RL is definitely a "Patriots school" guy.
Randy "Al Davis" Lerner is a Patriots school guy??
BQ Nation comes up with a lot of wacky shit, but this is right up there.
Randy "Al Davis" Lerner is a Patriots school guy??
BQ Nation comes up with a lot of wacky shit, but this is right up there.
Umm, yeah, he is. Way back before you became a hardcore fan circa 2007, Randy was busy a few years earlier meeting and emulating the way Robert Kraft does business.
Some of us fans know these things cuz we have followed the team for more than just a few "pressers" since the end of 2007.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
Masters said:
Only when you leave out the rest of the sentence "You can put an asterisk next to the numbers because: A) He played only 10 quarters, a small sample.
He had a broken finger on his throwing hand for at least three of those quarters."Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
I disagree. Anyone with an ounce of a competitive streak that sat and watched for 8 games during that shitshow we called a season, and finally got a chance to go make a difference?? And While the "coaching staff" allowed it to continue? You would have had to pull me off the field too. That is the very definition of leadership, and teammate.
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Clearly a indication BQ is self centered and put his selfish desire to play above the needs of the team.
If his broken finger was hampering his ability to throw, he was hurting the team by remaining on the field when there were healthy players behind him.
That isn't leadership. That is called hurting your teams chance to win.
I am very serious when I say that.
I disagree. Anyone with an ounce of a competitive streak that sat and watched for 8 games during that shitshow we called a season, and finally got a chance to go make a difference?? And While the "coaching staff" allowed it to continue? You would have had to pull me off the field too. That is the very definition of leadership, and teammate.
I disagree. Anyone with an ounce of a competitive streak that sat and watched for 8 games during that shitshow we called a season, and finally got a chance to go make a difference?? And While the "coaching staff" allowed it to continue? You would have had to pull me off the field too. That is the very definition of leadership, and teammate.
Of course. It's simply a ridiculous statement made by a bitterman stirring the pot. If Quinn asks out he's called a puss and believe me, ole Peener would be the first one doing it. Take that to the bank.
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Randy "Al Davis" Lerner is a Patriots school guy??
BQ Nation comes up with a lot of wacky shit, but this is right up there.
Umm, yeah, he is. Way back before you became a hardcore fan circa 2007, Randy was busy a few years earlier meeting and emulating the way Robert Kraft does business.
Some of us fans know these things cuz we have followed the team for more than just a few "pressers" since the end of 2007.
Umm, yeah, he is. Way back before you became a hardcore fan circa 2007, Randy was busy a few years earlier meeting and emulating the way Robert Kraft does business.
Nice work pointing out they have met before.
Unfortunately that doesn't mean they have any similarities.
because clearly they don't.
why don't you take a break, have yourself another BQ poster spooge-a-thon and clear your head.
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Hey Mik, take care of Lums will ya? No time here.
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Yeah, Cutler had worse #'s than Quinn last Saturday. Kyle Orton looks terrible and Cassel is throwing INT's left and right. But, who knows how all of them will play in the regular season.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
Oh Good, so it doesn't mean anything if DA overthrows Davis out of the backfield during a training camp drill? Then why do we keep starting threads with each DA miscue?
Oh, I get it ... If Quinn don't step up, it's no big deal ... but if DA makes a mistake it's exposed as a free fall ... got-it.
Queen fems.
Did somebody just get spanked by Taiwan again?
- Tom F.
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Umm, yeah, he is. Way back before you became a hardcore fan circa 2007, Randy was busy a few years earlier meeting and emulating the way Robert Kraft does business.
Nice work pointing out they have met before.
Unfortunately that doesn't mean they have any similarities.
because clearly they don't.
why don't you take a break, have yourself another BQ poster spooge-a-thon and clear your head.
why don't you take a break, have yourself another BQ poster spooge-a-thon and clear your head.
LOL! What a basterd - I love it!
You'll like this one Loverboy. When I was buying my Browns' jersey I said yeah I'll take a Bradys Quinns jersey in that wonderful Brown color. The guy in the store was kind of a short bus type. He said: "You're gonna have to do better than that. I don't know who Bradys Quinns is. I'm a numbers guy." Trying not to laugh my ass off - I said "okay, he's a perfect 10."
- Tom F (The BEST part about that story was every jersey had a name at the top of it)
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why don't you take a break, have yourself another BQ poster spooge-a-thon and clear your head.
LOL! What a basterd - I love it!
You'll like this one Loverboy. When I was buying my Browns' jersey I said yeah I'll take a Bradys Quinns jersey in that wonderful Brown color. The guy in the store was kind of a short bus type. He said: "You're gonna have to do better than that. I don't know who Bradys Quinns is. I'm a numbers guy." Trying not to laugh my ass off - I said "okay, he's a perfect 10."
- Tom F (The BEST part about that story was every jersey had a name at the top of it)
LOL! What a basterd - I love it!
You'll like this one Loverboy. When I was buying my Browns' jersey I said yeah I'll take a Bradys Quinns jersey in that wonderful Brown color. The guy in the store was kind of a short bus type. He said: "You're gonna have to do better than that. I don't know who Bradys Quinns is. I'm a numbers guy." Trying not to laugh my ass off - I said "okay, he's a perfect 10."
- Tom F (The BEST part about that story was every jersey had a name at the top of it)
Good one. Lol!
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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